The reason why the cyberpunk story I felt was not fun.

[Spectral_Warrior]

I'm only going to react once more to this specific topic because as far as I'm concerned its quickly boiling down to a futility, or maybe a better explanation would 'an exercise in uselessness',

Sorry, but yes. I don't want read and know the lore. At least till those time when there will not be a good ending on my conditions. I am ready to exchange good ending on diving into the lore. Till those times I will compensate absence of the good ending with my serious attitude to the lore. I have some knowledge in sociology, politology and psychology, like to read historical book. It is enough for me to believe that from scientific point of view the whole story is simply nonsense. But I am ready to believe in fairy tale in exchange on another fairy tale

I think this summarizes it perfectly. You dont want to know about the working of the universe in question, nor the very elaborate lore that has gone in establishing it, and on top of that you fundamentally disagree with the presence of the socalled 'dark' endings eventhough its common knowledge they are part of that very universe.

But then you turn around critisizing the game to be wrong, nonsensical and "not to your liking" and you seem to ignore pretty much everything you're being explained by various people on the forum and dismiss them as "I dont want to know".

With all due respect, but what are you even trying to achieve then? Do you even like playing the game?
I find this so confusing that I lack any response in what I could even say to be constructive.

So my sincere apologies to the mods if this is walking a fine line. I will shut up now.

 

[tvolodi]

It's the Cyberpunk genre that wants it or at least it goes with it.
In a vampir movie, there is vampires. In Jurassic park, there are dinosaurs. In the witcher, there are magic and monsters. In American blockbusters, the good guys always win. In Cyberpunk, stories generally have sad endings or at least, at best bitterweet.

So if you don't like dinosaurs, you won't go watch the last Jurassic Park. In the same way, if sad/bittersweet endings bother you, maybe it would be better to avoid the Cyberpunk genre.

Yup, same! I'm not arguing with you, just discussing the ideas.

I can see how especially the Panam ending might leave players with this "false hope" that V can find a cure. But, look at the actual text. The talk about the Aldecaldos "knowing people" and they'll figure "something" out...all the while V is "bleeding again" and "getting worse"...and notice how the final scene is V symbolically letting the past go. And a final statement about "going home".

I'd say the writing is pretty much on the wall.

Is there a cannon ending? I'm not really sure. I don't think so. I think that the plan was to tell a complete story, beginning, middle, and end, in which we're not 100% sure what happens to V or Johnny. No ending definitively explains exactly what happens after the credits roll. Even the suicide ending is ambiguous -- not forgetting that engram tech is supposed to be used on a dead body.

I think the general idea, moving forward, is that, now, we have Johnny V...somewhere out there...


I'm not sure what you're trying to argue, actually. Yes, governments do their darnedest to try to regulate and manage. They also fail, in spectacular fashion, all the time. Are you suggesting that it's not possible for the world to have gone the economic route depicted in Cyberpunk? Hardly. The world has gone that route, in actuality. In many ways. No, we didn't wind up with cyborgs wandering around or flying cars, but we certainly are living right now in a world where independent businesses have political clout, able to not only affect but overrule governmental concerns. Oil companies alone dictate far more day to day decisions around the globe than any constitution or sense of national values.

Now, we need to be careful not to mention anything in particular, as we're right on the precipice of real-world affairs. But I can draw a direct parallel to something way out of living memory, the effect of which still reverberates in the world today: The East India Company. We're talking about a private business that became powerful enough to build armies and forge a global empire. Zheng He, in medieval China, did almost exactly the same. Despite the fact that these entities became governmental in time -- they were always, at their core, private corporations. We've already seen this happen in history more than once. Assuming it could never occur again is recklessly nearsighted.

Pondsmith definitely took artistic liberties to work the "rule of cool" into his universe, but remove the crazy sci-fi elements, add a nuclear conflict or two, and the economic and political situation he has established is extremely solid. It's as likely as anything else that's happened since.


Here, I think you may be making a classic mistake of trying to argue about "the fifty-foot ape." Metaphor we use in literary analysis: "If you're going to accept that King Kong exists, don't try to make the argument that it would be impossible to feed it." Fantasy is fantasy because it's fantasy. Trying to argue fantasy is invalid because of fantastical elements being too fantastical is not valid.

(We can argue that fantasy can get silly. Or can be unqualified -- breaking the rules it, itself, establishes. Or it can fall into traps like cliche tropes and themes, deus ex machina, plot holes, etc. But that's not what Cyberpunk does.)

Your argument here is based largely on hindsight, which is always a fallacy of reasoning. We're talking 34 years of history since Pondsmith created his world. If I we try to determine now what the global economic situation will be in 2056, we'll be as wildly off as his take -- even if we're not simply trying to create a fantasy universe based on alternate reality.

Yes, I've already understood that Cyberpunk is some sort of a religion. Or you believe or you get out.

Post automatically merged: Apr 1, 2022

I'm only going to react once more to this specific topic because as far as I'm concerned its quickly boiling down to a futility, or maybe a better explanation would 'an exercise in uselessness',

I think this summarizes it perfectly. You dont want to know about the working of the universe in question, nor the very elaborate lore that has gone in establishing it, and on top of that you fundamentally disagree with the presence of the socalled 'dark' endings eventhough its common knowledge they are part of that very universe.

But then you turn around critisizing the game to be wrong, nonsensical and "not to your liking" and you seem to ignore pretty much everything you're being explained by various people on the forum and dismiss them as "I dont want to know".

With all due respect, but what are you even trying to achieve then? Do you even like playing the game?
I find this so confusing that I lack any response in what I could even say to be constructive.

So my sincere apologies to the mods if this is walking a fine line. I will shut up now.

Sometimes games are played not for lore. Especially if it is wrong at all.

 

[SigilFey]

Yes, I've already understood that Cyberpunk is some sort of a religion. Or you believe or you get out.

I don't know what this means. Cyberpunk is no big thing for me. I never really played the PnP game in the 80s, and pretty much all my knowledge of the world came from reading about it before playing CP2077.

I am, however, pretty familiar with the other literature and cinema out there, most notably things like Blade Runner, a little anime, like Ghost in the Shell, games like Technomancer, Shadowrun, System Shock, etc. The genre is familiar enough that I was quite intrigued by Cyberpunk 2020's take on it all. The human body having become profanum was probably my favorite bit of the universe:


This is no different than any other form of fatalistic literature. Not everything that human beings explore is meant to be "fun for the whole family". Wrong planet. Throughout human history, people have engaged with explorations of the harsh reality of human nature and the callous, uncaring nature of the universe. The Ancient Greeks practiced this as a core aspect of their religion. Tragic epics -- plays that could take up to 8 hours to watch -- which ended horribly. It reminded people that they were insignificant in the eyes of the gods: to live well and never fall into the traps of hubris, to learn from their ancestors and not repeat the mistakes of the past.

It's a process known as catharsis. We willingly explore these horrible ideas and take on that sadness and soul-suffering as a form of cleansing. In the end, we're still here! And now we're stronger for having experienced it. (That was the A. Greek belief structure, as far as we understand it.)

Medieval and Renaissance literature expanded on it. Dante's Inferno. L'Morte d'Arthur. This bridges straight into later periods where people like Malory and Shakespeare revisit classical themes. Sure, Shakespeare wrote some awesomely upbeat comedies, but he also built works like Titus Andronicus, Romeo and Juliet, or Macbeth.

In modern times, we still have authors and creators that delve into these dark places for similar reasons. Edgar Allen Poe. H.P. Lovecraft. Films like Saving Private Ryan or The Green Mile.

The world ain't a happy place full of cheerful endings. Sometimes, no matter what, people have to deal with things that just suck. A fantastic way to learn how to deal with those things is through literature. (Which theatre, film, and video games are definitely a part of.)

 

[DjSpyder]

I think what this comes down to is tvolodi just does not enjoy the ending, and in their opinion the gameplay mechanics were fun, the characters were fun, but the endings ruined the experience for them. And honestly, I get it, you were on a game that basically gives you the ultimate power fantasy if you max out level and gear, only to have the rug pulled saying you're still human, you're still sick and you will still die 6 months to a year from now.

The idea is that if it's my V, my story and my choices why can't i get a better ending. But most fiction does not work that way; I know a big criticism of this game has been that for a game about choice the story felt like it funneled you into a direction no matter what you did, but really the game told a story and a mostly good one, and sure choices did not make a HUGE impact on the endings, other than opening up which paths you can take. But I'd argue that the narrative works, that the illusion of choice is part of the story. V and Johhny are fighting against a tide a tide they cannot reverse no matter how much they try to disrupt it; sure, they made some ripples helped some people maybe even made a difference in the world and left a mark but once they were set on their path fate was sealed and there was not much they could do about it, it was only ever going to end one of two ways

But here is the issue I think with Tvolodi, they don't care if it worked for the story and they don't care what the lore says about the world, or about the typical tropes and themes of the Cyberpunk Genre as a whole. They enjoyed the action and systems of the game but found the ending too depressing for their tastes. They like a game where the hero wins and there is a happy ending, or at least a game where one of the possible endings is happy if there are multiple. And that is just not what this is. and honestly, I respect that opinion don't have an argument against it but thinking that if enough people are upset by the endings, they'll add a happy one is unlikely. Any DLC/Expansions or any cannon endings or expansion on V's story have probably already been planned and while it's possible for a change based on player feedback (I'm looking at you Fallout series) I doubt it'll happen.

 

[tvolodi]

I think what this comes down to is tvolodi just does not enjoy the ending, and in their opinion the gameplay mechanics were fun, the characters were fun, but the endings ruined the experience for them. And honestly, I get it, you were on a game that basically gives you the ultimate power fantasy if you max out level and gear, only to have the rug pulled saying you're still human, you're still sick and you will still die 6 months to a year from now.

The idea is that if it's my V, my story and my choices why can't i get a better ending. But most fiction does not work that way; I know a big criticism of this game has been that for a game about choice the story felt like it funneled you into a direction no matter what you did, but really the game told a story and a mostly good one, and sure choices did not make a HUGE impact on the endings, other than opening up which paths you can take. But I'd argue that the narrative works, that the illusion of choice is part of the story. V and Johhny are fighting against a tide a tide they cannot reverse no matter how much they try to disrupt it; sure, they made some ripples helped some people maybe even made a difference in the world and left a mark but once they were set on their path fate was sealed and there was not much they could do about it, it was only ever going to end one of two ways

But here is the issue I think with Tvolodi, they don't care if it worked for the story and they don't care what the lore says about the world, or about the typical tropes and themes of the Cyberpunk Genre as a whole. They enjoyed the action and systems of the game but found the ending too depressing for their tastes. They like a game where the hero wins and there is a happy ending, or at least a game where one of the possible endings is happy if there are multiple. And that is just not what this is. and honestly, I respect that opinion don't have an argument against it but thinking that if enough people are upset by the endings, they'll add a happy one is unlikely. Any DLC/Expansions or any cannon endings or expansion on V's story have probably already been planned and while it's possible for a change based on player feedback (I'm looking at you Fallout series) I doubt it'll happen.

DjSpyder, thank you! You understand very correctly what I feeling.
Yes, I don't have respect for the lore. I really don't understand how could Japan capture a half of the world. It doesn't have resources for it. Let it be be China or India instead. But even these countries cannot do this. All other events seems to me strange also. Actually, the whole story is a mixture of conspiracy theory, communism ideas and irrational fears of Americans of other global hegemony and upcoming future. So, it was interesting to read all this shards maybe a first half of an hour. At some moment I was simply tired of it. But there is only one answer on all my complaints linked to this problem: you haven't read all shards and you don't believe into lore. But you must. Last time I heard such statements in a church. Yes, I don't believe in the lore. Cyberpunk is not my religion, and Pondsmith is not my prophet. But I like idea of changes of homo with usage of implants. That is why I like games like System Shock, DeusEx.
So, I don't care what are "canons of cyberpunk" genre. But I like game mechanics, side stories. Also people from CDPR have done titanic job to create the huge city in full detail even on outskirts. And on game finish I simply want simple answers on simple "good" actions in the game. I was a god boy? Then I want to get a "good" reward. But when I ask about it then I get answer: you don't understand: in this genre there is no good endings because it is such genre, it canonical. It cannot be changed. In other case it will not be cyberpunk. And so on, and so forth. Ok. Japan can capture a half of the world. It is possible, nobody ask questions. But required operation on the hero's brain is impossible, even if medical infrastructure is so developed that there is a ripperdoc on every second pile of trash. Same feeling I have in Fallout 4 when Father died from cancer. It was a great mystery for me why the hero didn't give him a stimpack
About ending varieties I agree. But here a player has to understand that game developers cannot control a story line and open world with all possible varieties altogether. I remember STALKER developers had a big hopes on their mechanics of Artificial life in the Zone. NPC could even do quests in competition with player. It had finished with the linear story line all covered by scripts. A number of actually independent endings is a function of resources which game developing company has. But from my point of view what endings will be has to depend on at least one following rule: everyone will be rewarded according to his deeds. There has to be good ending, there has to be bad ending at least. Some players will go by path of good deeds and will receive a paradise. Some will go by path of evil and will go to hell. It is obvious and effective. But gamedevs try to reinvent bicycle only to be original. Well well...

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Yes, I don't have respect for the lore. I really don't understand how could Japan capture a half of the world. It doesn't have resources for it. Let it be be China or India instead. But even these countries cannot do this. All other events seems to me strange also.

How strange !
You don't care about the lore and don't understand why/how events/things happen

But gamedevs try to reinvent bicycle only to be original. Well well...

I think they didn't "reinvent" anything, they simply make a Cyberpunk game based on a cyberpunk tabletop game who take place in a Cyberpunk genre...
Based on : Cyberpunk: The Roleplaying Game of the Dark Future (also known as Cyberpunk 2013) - 1988

Anyway, I give up now... it seem to be totally "useless" to argue more. You don't care about the lore, so you don't understand the lore, you don't like the endings, fine

 

[Rodocastiza]

As much as I want my V to survive and be happy, I will never accept a canon ending, I hate being given choices that later are ignored.

The Fallout 3 ending was stupid, but the retconning was, for me, more stupid, and ruined the game. There are rumours that Mass Effect 4 will have a canon ending from 3 and if it so, I won't play it, even if it is an ending I like.

 

[SigilFey]

But here is the issue I think with Tvolodi, they don't care if it worked for the story and they don't care what the lore says about the world, or about the typical tropes and themes of the Cyberpunk Genre as a whole.

DjSpyder, thank you! You understand very correctly what I feeling.

There's nothing wrong with this! You don't like it, and that's fine.

However, arguing that it's "bad" or "poor quality" because of personal preference isn't viable. It's a fantastic example of dark, tragic literature.

I can't stand Super Mario Bros. Always found the games to be pretty repetitive and annoying. Not a fan on the art style, and I generally don't enjoy platformers.

I tend to use Super Mario Bros. as an example of exemplary game design. A visual aesthetic that is instantly recognizable at-a-glance, and a beautiful specimen of what it means to take a simple, clear, core system of game mechanics and expand upon it in ingenious ways. The sheer presence and appeal of the games over such a wide market for so many years is indicative of developers that have truly mastered their craft.

But I can't stand the games. Not my thing.

 

[DjSpyder]

There's nothing wrong with this! You don't like it, and that's fine.

However, arguing that it's "bad" or "poor quality" because of personal preference isn't viable. It's a fantastic example of dark, tragic literature.

I can't stand Super Mario Bros. Always found the games to be pretty repetitive and annoying. Not a fan on the art style, and I generally don't enjoy platformers.

I tend to use Super Mario Bros. as an example of exemplary game design. A visual aesthetic that is instantly recognizable at-a-glance, and a beautiful specimen of what it means to take a simple, clear, core system of game mechanics and expand upon it in ingenious ways. The sheer presence and appeal of the games over such a wide market for so many years is indicative of developers that have truly mastered their craft.

But I can't stand the games. Not my thing.

This mentality is exactly how I try to approach everything, Music movies game ETC... Some things are technically quantifiably bad, other things are perfectly fine just they're not for me. I find looking at things this way makes life so much better. If something is broken, or poorly made it's bad, if something is Working great and well-crafted but I hate it, that just means it's not for me, For example(and I know this is gamer sacrilege) I don't like Soulsbourne games, Like even know with Elden Ring out, it just does not appeal to me at all with the exception that the lore and world look interesting, but if it's just more From Software gameplay plus better story, It's a pass for me. But I could never say those games are bad because clearly, they are not.

 

[Mahoney42]

When I first loaded up the game I was amazed. The city is amazing and the diversity of npc's, random situations and awesome music really gets your attention. As you play thru you have a cool partner in crime (jackie) who is very well written and voice acted and you start to really get the vibe of the game.

Then BAM!!, your buddy is dead and you are infected with a talking brain tumour that tries to kill you at the outset and is in fact slowly killing you as you play on. After a while it becomes clear that you are stuck with the most annoying character and the best you can hope for is to delay death. When you first meet him you are "playing" as Johnny (actually just moving the avatar forward to the next scripted sequence to select the one dialogue choice) and you get to engage in superfluous combat. This is all to give you the backstory of Johnny but it really needs to be a cut-scene. From the time you lose control of your V until you get it back take over 30 minutes if you spam the dialogue choice and skip keys.

I instantly hated Silverhand and as the game progressed I cared less and less about what he was saying and always selected the most aggressive responses to his drivel. In the quest "Chippin" in I couldn't believe that there were so many pointless dialogue choices ie take a drink, take a drink, take another drink. After the betrayal in that quest I quickly finished up the game and put it away.

I thought this was such a waste. I really like the core game - combat mechanics, variety of play styles, the City and its people. Hell even the driving - though quirky - grew on me (the Mai Mai is the best - driving a barely in control Roomba is hilarious).

Since that first play thru I have put several hundred hours into the game. I even once tried to be nice to Johnny - but it was forced. On most of my subsequent play thrus I skip as much of the main quest as possible and spend most of my time experimenting with different builds, wandering around the city and doing side gigs. At the conclusion of the Heist mission I fire up my tablet and watch you-tube until the Johnny sequence is over (spamming those skip and dialogue keys).

Aside from Johnny the biggest weakness in the game is difficulty. It doesnt take long before most combat consists of V one-shotting everything or whole groups of people if you are a net runner or have tons of grenades. Even the more challenging fights (Oda and Smasher) arent really that tough and only last 30 seconds or so. Game needs a Hard Mode.

I have often wondered if the character of Silverhand went through a few re-writes as the game progressed and because of time pressure was left in the state he is in. Some of the dialogue with him is clearly divergent. A good example is after you first meet him and he tries to kill you your very next task will be to go to the garage to pick up your car at which point Delamain will smash into it causing V to exclaim "Oh Johnny did you see that?" The very last person/entity/tumour you will want to talk to is him - he just tried to kill you. Oh well, I just dont bother going to the garage until I want to do the Delamain sequence and I just cringe every time I do. Was he at one time supposed to be an ally and they decided to make him more "dark" and "hard core". Perhaps they should have just made him a full on antagonist that you can strive to overcome

I do take pains to empty a clip into his head every time he runs off at the mouth when you are stuck with him, like in long elevator rides. Doesn't effect him but makes me feel better

 

[Darkaiser1313]

My main complaint (and it's not a major one because I love this game) is that CDPR didn't go far enough. On the one hand, you as V can go along with most of what Johnny says after your first couple of dialogues with him. You can agree to try and help him get his revenge against Arasaka (and I think that CDPR expects us to hate them too all things considered) while you slowly die. On the other hand, you can argue with him every chance you get...but neither of these really changes things. In the end, you still have opportunities to try for all of the different endings.

It's sort of like doing all of Regina's Cyberpsycho missions and killing them all. She gets mad at you for killing them but you still get paid just the same. Most of the Fixer missions are this way. I would have liked for a few of the missions from each Fixer to be 'all or nothing' where if you don't do what they want, you don't get paid. If you refuse the mission then it counts as completed for the Fixer's bonus reward because these are afterthoughts anyway.

Many players would not like to see V literally dragged around through the storyline, even though he sort of is anyway. I mean look at his options after the Heist:

He can try to find someone to help get the chip out without killing him.
He can ignore the chip and continue to push on making a name for himself until he dies.

Not really a lot of options when you boil it down. I understand that writing branching dialog and quest trees can be time-consuming and expensive though so you have to draw the line somewhere.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

On the other hand, you can argue with him every chance you get...but neither of these really changes things. In the end, you still have opportunities to try for all of the different endings.

Not sure, if you avoid to have any dialogues with him (take pills because you may think he don't deserve any compasion), then don't bother about his quests, the Sun Ending is locked and "Don't Fear The Reaper" too.

It's sort of like doing all of Regina's Cyberpsycho missions and killing them all. She gets mad at you for killing them but you still get paid just the same.

You get paid, but I think she doesn't give you the additional reward, two piece of Trauma Team clothes.

 

[CyberBobber]

It could have been much better if Characters had more presents. Theres fun Characters but somehow they are "in the shadows".

 

[soushiee]

I enjoyed the story quite a bit - the only things that I wish were done better were a better feeling of urgency and a better inclusion of the different life paths into the story. After the parade especially, doing side quests just felt wrong to me story-wise (although I will do more of them on my second playthrough).

And I wish you could select a different goal for your character along with your life path. The major leagues thing only made sense for my street kid character I feel. Plus, maybe the endings could leave you more options. SPOILERS: Maybe I didn't pay enough attention, but why exactly wouldn't V try to sneak in Alt Cunningham when he/she accepts Hanako's offer?

 

[LeKill3rFou]

but why exactly wouldn't V try to sneak in Alt Cunningham when he/she accepts Hanako's offer?

I don't really understand what do you mean. But at least, V can't really "lie" to Alt. She "read" in V (and Johnny) directly. In short, "Words are useless".

 

[soushiee]

I don't really understand what do you mean. But at least, V can't really "lie" to Alt. She "read" in V (and Johnny) directly. In short, "Words are useless".

I did the Voodoo Boys quest where you meet Alt Cunnigham, and she offered me to remove the chip if I can get her inside Michiko. I then accepted Hanako's offer to remove the chip in exchange for testifying against Yorinobu. I kind of expected that the Alt thing would be interwined with the Hanako route, meaning that I could betray Hanako and use the opportunity to get Alt into Michiko.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I did the Voodoo Boys quest where you meet Alt Cunnigham, and she offered me to remove the chip if I can get her inside Michiko. I then accepted Hanako's offer to remove the chip in exchange for testifying against Yorinobu. I kind of expected that the Alt thing would be interwined with the Hanako route, meaning that I could betray Hanako and use the opportunity to get Alt into Michiko.

Ah ok, so nope. Either "Alt", either "Hanako".
I don't know if you already did the other endings, so :

Spoiler

To get Alt into Mikoshi you need a back door (Alt give it to V or Johnny, before the assault) and a direct access point to Mikoshi (in this case, Izanagi).
In Devil ending, you don't have any of that (nor the opporunity to have that).

 

[Sharindel]

I play cyberpunk 2020 and Shadowrun for over 20 years now in pen and paper and a i am very disappointed.

The complete story is a surefire, even with the alternative endings. V is complete irrelevant and that is very very bitter.

Spoiler: Why i am Dissapointed as P&P DM? [Spoilers!]

1. The Head of Arasaka would be the same in every Ending. The old Boss will get back. Even if mikoshi is destroyed. The copies of big old Arasaka are save. In one of Arasaka Vaults. Even the destruction of Mikoshi is irrelevent, it can be rebuild. Only the engramms are lost.
2. V, Jacky and even Johnny are irrelevant for the Story, they all die in the End. Not a singel good ending, not even the secret ending. Why on earth a writer would write a game that disappoints in with the end. You play 100 hours for... what ever you do, you will die. Thats really really bad DM work!
   
3. The Mainstory is badly written, because the personalty and "friendship" of V and Johnny don't matter. You make the sidestorys, go later to a mainstory an Johnny is from Friendly to Asshole again. That bitter, if you see that there are diffrent social levels because one is a sidestory and the other is a main story
4. The Endings make no sense, human cloning was a thing in one of the sourcebooks in cp2020. So cloning of humans where possible in 2040. But in the 37 years later it is not? Did the writeres read the source marterial? Why there is no clone of arasaka sama... why they give you not a clone and you in the devil ending. That make no sense... yes its a "maybe in part 2" cliffhanger bit is very disppointing. Who write this... why not a ending. Where V lives and you can also rescue Johnny or he gets his bitter ending.
5. The overall bad oldschool RPG choises, like gender specifc romances even if you have the choise to add/cut a penis. Who do this to the player in such a setting?!

Overall i was mostly pleased with the side stories. But the mainstory needs a aftermath and the romances a big revampt.
My Idea:

Spoiler: Idea

All endings are only a simulation in mikoshi and goes to a new mainstory. V and Johnny are trapped in the 3.0 alpha of the relic programm, the afterlife, where they get there happy or not so happy ending. Araska has won all the time and now they need V. Why? Because V is the only known person who can endure a second personality on a relic splitter. So V gets a new body, with a new construct. I would take T-Bug and the hunt for the rouge AI Alt begins. 20-40 hours of new story thats direcitly starts some months after the ending. Your romance will take place as a new support npc... who will help you and get some actions in the missions. Also there romance are evolved big time and if you don't have a romance or want a new you can start one with t-bug. To get her in the end also a new body and a nice house on a privat island.

Also this time with a good ending... nobody needs a bad ending... but a ending with a nice cliffhanger in the end for MORE and a new story arc!

 

[LeKill3rFou]

why they give you not a clone and you in the devil ending. That make no sense...

To make a clone, you need a "clean ADN base", I believe, something that V isn't. He/she is a DNA mess... SO by cloning a mess, you will end with a cloned mess
In the Devil ending, if you believe Arasaka and go in Mikoshi, it could be possible. But as Goro said, they are not able to provide a suitable body for now (before 6 months), so it could mean that one day, they could.

Who write this... why not a ending. Where V lives and you can also rescue Johnny or he gets his bitter ending.

You wanted an happy ending ? Unfortunately, there is not like in most Cyberpunk stories (mostly bittersweet).
I would always quote @andrewdilley : The story is about V trying to cheat death, which is futile and can't end happily.
To also quote Johnny : An happier ending for everyone ? Wrong city, wrong people kid...

The overall bad oldschool RPG choises, like gender specifc romances even if you have the choise to add/cut a penis. Who do this to the player in such a setting?!

To make it real, discussed to death in other threads. Judy is great, in part because she like girls... Panam is great in part because she like dudes...

 

[Sharindel]

To make a clone, you need a "clean ADN base", I believe, something that V isn't. He/she is a DNA mess... SO by cloning a mess, you will end with a cloned mess
In the Devil ending, if you believe Arasaka and go in Mikoshi, it could be possible. But as Goro said, they are not able to provide a suitable body for now (before 6 months), so it could mean that one day, they could.

Your argument make no sense. The human body is in constant destruction and reconstruction. In one second the body kills and rebuilds 10 millions cells. So if the body can rebuild cells over days.. it would also be possible to clone them. The answer given in the devil ending, is only a cliffhanger. There is no way.. that they can't clone a body for you... also what in your opinion change the DNA? Relic 2.0 don't change the DNA, only switch bio matter with nano machines. They want you to stay... i don't even think V is alive anymore in this scene, its all a simulation in miskoshi.

You wanted an happy ending ? Unfortunately, there is not like in most Cyberpunk stories (mostly bittersweet).
I would always quote @andrewdilley : The story is about V trying to cheat death, which is futile and can't end happily.
To also quote Johnny : An happier ending for everyone ? Wrong city, wrong people kid...

I read many cyberpunk stories and did you know. Most cyberpunk stories have a good ending. Neuromancer happy end, blade runner happy end, matrix happy end, i robot happy end and many many books... and movies.. have a happy ending! But thats only a point to make it clear, cyberpunk is not a genre without happy endings.

Why a game needs a happy end, is the important question! The answer is simple. Because you want your customer to come back or even try it a second time to get a better ending. I bring you one other example for: "how to ruin a series with a bad end". Its the original mass effect trilogy. The end of the 3th game, ruin the series. Even a better ending mod was written and even bioware themselfe now let the protagonist death in the 4th installment that is in production.

Also your argument with johnny is absolutly stupid.. because johnny can have a happy ending!!! Only V, the main protagonist has no happy ending!

To make it real, discussed to death in other threads. Judy is great, in part because she like girls... Panam is great in part because she like dudes...

Okey, than explain why you can date judy if your female V has a big huge monster in her pants? Becuase lesbians like trans? Meh!
Also the voicelines and animations for male V x Judy and female V x Panam are in the game! There are mods that reactivate this options out there. It make clearly no sense to make them gender specific romances... its only a stupid choise for "oh they play it a second time" but this is ruined by the bad endings... so it make no sense... it would be better if the reactivated them by default and let you play what you want. Or even revamp it with new options.. like rollplay... about.. oh you have a big dick in your pants... panam blushes and don't know what to say if she touch the tralalala.