The release of this game wasn't really that exceptional

[Surma.]

I've seen so many people talk about the missing Casino & Club area being some kind of radical cut content that no other respectful game developer has ever done.

But I wonder if anyone remember who is this guy?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Souls:_Artorias_of_the_Abyss
"According to director Hidetaka Miyazaki, Artorias of the Abyss was originally conceived during the development of Dark Souls, and was planned to be part of the main game but was scrapped early on, with the development team saying "there's no way we can do that!".

To anyone who isn't aware: Oolacile, the world leading into the fight Artorias is DLC content, first released in Dark Souls: Prepare To Die Edition, on August 24 2012, Dark Souls got released in September 22 2011. That's almost entire year after release when gamers were given access to a content that was planned, art work created and shared, which was taken into later stage of the game's lifecycle.

People get so upset that company like CDPR which was very similar to FromSoftware, only having 1 large success of a game behind them, had to cut content they drafted out in early sketches.

-

Skyrim shipped in far worse state for old gen consoles.

GTA 5 froze a lot in old gen consoles.

Not - a single - open world - game - has been - bug free - on release.

-

And game like Dark Souls which many consider as masterpiece got released same time with L. A. Noire and still got praised to heaven without having even a single dialogue of lipsyncing or NPC movement (outside of the cat and the giant worm guy). I mean compared to even what Dark Souls 3 has, this game is like entirely new level of polish, from a company that had 1 giant success story of a game behind them.

And about stuff like crafting, Dark Souls 1 didn't have "absorb X amount of souls" before remastered version, 7 years after release of the game.

Outside of some obvious flaws like NCPD spawning mechanic and disappearing cars/citizens, it would be hard to find any actual complaints that wouldn't exist in any other releases.


It would be nice after 3 months to start discussing what the actual game is like rather than keep making these weird complaints like missing contents and bugs and lack of UI polish.

I find it hugely ironic that people (certain YouTube angry critics) say how they loved Witcher 3 are complaining so much about poor release, then it was partially they who helped to create this environment of some kind of artificial purity, praising the company to heavens while neglecting their previous game's release problems, lack of any ability to draw comparisons to past etc, then acting completely disappointed to find they happened (in fact far less damaging bugs this time) after release, I just find that extremely dishonest or lazy at best. These people should have known better.

I mean CDPR isn't completely flawless here either and I'm not trying to excuse them.

I think it was completely fine for them to delay the console reviews because how they wanted the game to be fixed in the launch patch and they just had to make all the CD copies before shipping the game out. That's not really the problem, people wouldn't honestly care at all if the game got fixed upon release.
It's now pretty obvious they over-estimated their ability to fix the game in time, it happens a lot in development, I don't think anything shady took place but it was still very unfortunate and very bad judgment in behalf of leadership to make such crucial play in such short time period.

Could the release have been handled better? Absolutely. Many have pointed out they should have delayed it a little bit more, at least put the PC release separately first and then delayed console launch, and the game should have been somewhere between the 1.1 - 1.2 during a release.

But on CDPR's defense I have to say that the game was surprisingly polished even with all the negative reviews and downvote bombs. I've never seen anyone having an issue with BD scenes, or while playing as Johnny, or having corpses being stuck in an endless animation like we see on many Bethesda game. For PC it has been almost(*) flawless condition from the start.

* = if you exclude some rare occasions of 0.01% of the time having strange hiccup or some quest requiring to reload (never happened to me, although I never went into 100% completion), file size limit for PC (never impacted me) etc.

 

[vinovat]

stop making excuses for the state of this game
just because other games were shipped in a bad state, doesn't excuse this game from doing so:

the more you excuse this game, the more they can get away with;
soon, all games will be "work in progress" games that will be finished 2 years down the road...

"But on CDPR's defense I have to say that the game was surprisingly polished"

Just no, and this is not even debatable

 

[Surma.]

stop making excuses for the state of this game

I'm not trying to excuse them.

I already explained the release wasn't the most smoothest to say the least.
And it doesn't really help the conversation to put unrealistic purity test that literally no game has passed since 16bit era.

 

[redpuffin]

Warning: possible spoilers.

I made sure to play the game without reading or watching any videos about the game once all the controversy hit the news. I started playing a week ago and have finished the main story line and most of the side quests.
I was hooked. The visuals are stunning, the characters are easy to become attached to, overall amazing. I experienced bugs like everyone else, but only ever had to reload a previous save twice.

here is what i really didn't like:

- Choices don't really seem to have an effect on anything. With Witcher 3, my first playthrough caught me totally off guard. On my second playthrough, i was constantly googling consequences of picking one thing over another. It felt like you could alter the world, and therefore a part of it. Yes, this isn't Witcher 3... but at several points during quests i would google something, only to find out it had no impact on the outcome, which rendered the whole choice pointless.

- Driving. Yes, i know they are fixing it soon. However, a game this beautiful with such cool looking vehicles and terrain to explore, should never have had such a horrible driving experience. After constantly swerving and hitting pedestrians, only to gain wanted levels, i started running to most places or using fast travel/teleport mods. Essentially completely ignoring the whole driving mechanic.

- With so much depth to most of the story, the Peralez quest line was a bit of a let down. It all lead up to a crescendo, only to never find out who is behind it, or have a way to stop them.

- A lot of sidequests had no real reason. Cyberpsychos, crimes in progress, tarot cards etc... This wouldn't have been so bad if the story line wasn't so well made. It made side quests seem like an afterthought. For example, Cyberpsycho treatment mini story line would have been great to tie up all that running around, same with tarot cards.

- With so much real estate in the game, the amount of places to explore is too slim. If it's not tied to a miniquest or story line then the building is just a façade. Would have loved to have a reason to just go out an explore... again, think of GTA or maybe even Red Dead 2, where random events happened all around... What is the point of being able to scan random pedestrians if all they do is aimlessly walk.

- Gear: Can be way too overpowered. Not enough of the powerful stuff is locked behind quests. Essentially, a brand new account can get a bunch of legendary very early on. No real sense of satisfaction at getting new gear, since it's literally all over the map. Shards are also way too prevalent. My 1st playthrough, i picked up every single one i could find only to realize there was no point unless they are tied to the current quest. You don't get info that could help with other quests, they don't unlock new jobs previously undiscovered or anything else of value.

- Police Response: unlike most players, i am not complaining about how quick it is. I just dislike how easy it is to get rid of the wanted level... either kill everything in sight, or just go around the corner for 5 seconds... Makes the whole system feel pointless. Would have preferred a more GTA like response to make it feel realistic... I saw no difference between a 1 wanted level or a 4.

- 3rd person view. Even though i grew to love 1st person, it makes no sense to have a massive amount of outfit choices if you can't really see it. On my first play through, the Panam scene when you gaze up at the stars at the end, my character looked like a total idiot. totally killed the vibe.
You also don't have a reflection. For example, when you ride the elevator with Takemura, you see his reflection in the mirrors, yet you are invisible... bathroom mirror mechanic is too slow, and would have preferred to not have to turn it on/off.

- Nomad/Street Kid/Corpo: big missed opportunity there. Aside from short intros and useless extra dialogue options, there is no point in picking one or the other. No difference in missions, no extra perks, nothing. Intros should have been a bit longer, with more character specific missions. I have only played the Nomad and the Corpo intros. The corpo intro felt too short and had too many loose ends, why would Arasaka just let V go that easily? Didn't mesh well with how brutal they are shown to be throughout the game.

- The ending. The endings were beautiful, though no logical way to keep playing in night city, since each ending is essentially the end. Reloading before "The point of no return" is great, but that kills the emersion for any upcoming DLCs.


Overall, it felt like the story was leading you down an amazing journey. Unfortunately, just playing the game you notice content that was clearly cut. As amazing as it is, the game makes you feel disappointed, not because it sucked, but at how it could have easily reached masterpiece status. A totally missed opportunity... and yet, i still can't stop playing.

 

[Surma.]

I somewhat agree with the feeling of lack of choice. There doesn't need to be much added but it does feel a little lackluster with the quicktime events, either just get rid of them or add even a tiny impact on the outcome.

Also I really want to punish the a-hole who sold me faulty BD and I get 2 decisions in the end where in both the guy just runs away.

Also many parts in main quest there's like 1 choice with 1 dialogue to get extra information but not really, it just feels little off in few parts like talking with Placide (Placido? Something like that. The Voodoo Boys guy).

After constantly swerving and hitting pedestrians

Never had a problem staying on the road, well outside of one two cars, especially the one with glass roof top, really feels like wheels are made of butter. Others feel fine after some practise.

It all lead up to a crescendo, only to never find out who is behind it, or have a way to stop them.

Potential DLC content perhaps?

I mean they're currently working on the Casino & Club as the assets clearly do exist. Who knows maybe there's something sinister going on in that rich peoples place.

I agree with a lot of other comments you're saying, still, it's better than Fallout 4 / GTA 5 by a mile. I don't even remember finishing either of those games, I just got tired of building some pointless water collectors in the camp and in GTA 5 there really wasn't any feeling to continue with the main quest line, just ended up doing more stupid s*** like poking at the NPC's and piling up cars. The mini games are a nice little distraction but people get too obsessed about game having it. Sure it'd be nice in first expansion or something, but don't really feel like it's required.

Some people have some weird obsession to have every game to be played like 10 000 hours. Those kind of games are extremely repetitive.

I don't want this game end up like a farming simulator and I'm glad there's so much stuff to do, even if some stuff like Cyberpsychos and NCPD gang take downs might feel too similar to one another. I also love how you can actually interact with the quest givers rather than sit in a forced dialogue like in GTA 5, though they are pretty well made.

I wish the multiplayer was more PVP oriented and not toward building some arbitrary gold score just to buy some overexpensive loot for your online character.

 

[GrimReaper801]

[...]

Look, I'm far from the negative one around here. In fact, I'd say I'm right in the middle. There is a lot I like about the game and a lot I dislike. There are very few things I want to say here.

First, the whole "this game had a better/worse launch" argument needs to stop. Every game should be judged on it's own merits and faults. Here, CP2077 had a shitty launch. There is no denying that. Not even mediocre, it was shitty. Bugs galore for a lot of people, nearly to completely unplayable for most console players, dubious pre-release statements, etc. There are plenty of reasons to call this launch shitty. Regardless of whatever game someone might think of that had a better or a worse launch - this specific launch was shitty.

Secondly, equating your own experience (nearly flawless according to you) to everyone having the same experience is a flawed argument at best. I'm on PC too. It was not flawless or even near flawless. It was an enjoyable experience mired by a multitude of annoyances. Pop-ins while driving (on SSD), broken AI, police spawning on top of me... The issues are well known by now. That is not near flawless. It's nowhere near "almost flawless"

The game was not polished. They didn't have time to polish it as is obvious now. I have no idea what you mean by saying it was a polished game on PC. A polished game would have a working AI amongst other things.

That's not to say the game doesn't do a lot of things right but, as with anything, the bad often leaves a far more lasting impression than the good.

 

[danickas]

Also I really want to punish the a-hole who sold me faulty BD and I get 2 decisions in the end where in both the guy just runs away.

You can do this my man just shoot him, here I timestamped the lets play for you when someone does it like you wanted.

 

[redpuffin]

[...]

Look, I'm far from the negative one around here. In fact, I'd say I'm right in the middle. There is a lot I like about the game and a lot I dislike. There are very few things I want to say here.

First, the whole "this game had a better/worse launch" argument needs to stop. Every game should be judged on it's own merits and faults. Here, CP2077 had a shitty launch. There is no denying that. Not even mediocre, it was shitty. Bugs galore for a lot of people, nearly to completely unplayable for most console players, dubious pre-release statements, etc. There are plenty of reasons to call this launch shitty. Regardless of whatever game someone might think of that had a better or a worse launch - this specific launch was shitty.

Secondly, equating your own experience (nearly flawless according to you) to everyone having the same experience is a flawed argument at best. I'm on PC too. It was not flawless or even near flawless. It was an enjoyable experience mired by a multitude of annoyances. Pop-ins while driving (on SSD), broken AI, police spawning on top of me... The issues are well known by now. That is not near flawless. It's nowhere near "almost flawless"

The game was not polished. They didn't have time to polish it as is obvious now. I have no idea what you mean by saying it was a polished game on PC. A polished game would have a working AI amongst other things.

That's not to say the game doesn't do a lot of things right but, as with anything, the bad often leaves a far more lasting impression than the good.

well i can only go off my own experience, i won't jump on the bandwagon because others had a different one... It's like saying a movie you enjoyed was bad, just because all your friends hated it.

Saying equating my experience to everyone else's is a flawed argument means you didn't read what i wrote. I never overruled anyone else's experience, i only talked about my own. I agree that still talking about launch is dumb, and the game should be judged off it's merits, which i thought i had expressed when i presented in my points of things i didnt enjoy in the game.
Just because i didn't experience as many bugs, doesn't mean they don't exist.
I'm not sure what the game was like at launch, but my experience with playing at version 1.12 was nowhere near what others have stated.

 

[GrimReaper801]

Saying equating my experience to everyone else's is a flawed argument means you didn't read what i wrote.

You're right - I didn't read what you wrote. Because my post was not aimed at you. Hence why I didn't quote you. A post with no direct quote is generally aimed at the thread itself or the original post if you prefer. As a rule of thumb, if you want to address someone specific, you quote them just like you just did. Not to mention I used the OP's own words (almost flawless) and addressed the OP's points, not yours.

Furthermore, I have no idea why anyone would think you're equating your experience to what everyone should experience. Skimming through your post, it's clearly not what you're doing. Unlike the OP who seems to be making the argument that since his/her experience was almost flawless that the complaints are, in majority, undeserved.

My post was obviously aimed at the OP.

 

[claudiu111]

"For PC it has been almost flawless condition from the start (if you exclude the save file limit which never really impacted me)."

You have to be joking....

 

[redpuffin]

I agree with a lot of other comments you're saying, still, it's better than Fallout 4 / GTA 5 by a mile. I don't even remember finishing either of those games, I just got tired of building some pointless water collectors in the camp and in GTA 5 there really wasn't any feeling to continue with the main quest line, just ended up doing more stupid s*** like poking at the NPC's and piling up cars. The mini games are a nice little distraction but people get too obsessed about game having it. Sure it'd be nice in first expansion or something, but don't really feel like it's required.

Some people have some weird obsession to have every game to be played like 10 000 hours. Those kind of games are extremely repetitive.

Fallout 4 was fun when it came out, but the world was very lifeless... It's not a game i could replay today, even though i have tried.
However in Fallout, most of the side quests had a story behind them. They give you history, and a mini story line so whatever task you do, usually has a purpose and a story.

As for GTA, it's a different type of game. It is fun for what it is, and it doesn't really try to be anything other than that. For example, it has trash combat mechanics. Story line isn't very engaging, and characters aren't as memorable... However, driving, exploration, police response, loot system, etc are spot on.
Sure you can get high level weapons, but they are located inside an army base for example, and the ammo is super expensive. Making it very unlikely you can earn that weapon without having adequate gear yourself, or having progressed far enough in quest line to buy it from the store.

Not sure if you have played Red Dead 2, but it killed it with the open world. You can be riding along in the middle of nowhere and find someone that needs help, or someone might try and rob you. Also you remain wanted in an area to a certain degree until you pay your bounty.
I have tried to cause mayhem in Cyberpunk, like in GTA for example.. however, i only get a few pedestrians and a few cops that attack, once they are all dead i am somehow free to go... no escalated response, no tanks and helicopters coming in... nothing happens... What was the point of Max-Tac in the opening scene?

The unfortunate side of creating a massive open world, is that people want to explore it. Making a gorgeous landscape that is quite empty means there is no real point in having the map be so large... In GTA and in Red Dead, there was several times where i swerved away from main quest to check out something interesting that popped up nearby, you don't get that with CP... Which is why i ended up using a teleport mod instead of having to drive in an albeit beautiful, but dead world.
For example, in RD2, there are legendary animals to find and hunt, similar to cyberpsychos.. however, killing them rewards you with unique material needed to craft certain gear... however, in CP, killing Cyberpyschos is quite pointless... a tough boss with no real value.

 

[casadechrisso]

I only played v. 1.12 but have to say as far as bugs go I also had an almost flawless experience on PC, compared to many many other games I played on or close to release - all Bethesda games to name just the most obvious.
That's not to say the game is flawless besides the bugs, quite the opposite, but I'm not going into hyperbole mode and declare it DOA or worst launch or whatever - as a PC user, mind you, on a last gen console I'd be furious. But I see a game that can still be fixed and has much more potential than a lot of the botched launches of recent.

 

[Surma.]

For example, in RD2, there are legendary animals to find and hunt, similar to cyberpsychos.. however, killing them rewards you with unique material needed to craft certain gear... however, in CP, killing Cyberpyschos is quite pointless... a tough boss with no real value.

Maybe they could add some lore about some mystical metal that is very powerful, but as side effect people who wear it will lose their minds eventually. Would also explain how the Cyberpsychos along with some of the bosses seem to be well more equipped than the rest of the average enemies and having these special attacks and so on.

Perhaps an expansion or DLC where there's a certain type of mine that has a ton of that material (lets call it "Demonite"), but can also be found from Cyberpsychos, and lets say having like 10 of that material allows you to upgrade legendary weapons to "Demonic", giving you ton of boosted stats but as a side effect your max health is drained from max value by 5% per demonic gear, then giving some form of red glow. I've heard they cut the laser blade from release I guess in hopes of making a new tier of weapon types.

They could write all sorts of lore about how there is people talking to the mineral like it's a living mind, and listening their inner voice, maybe make some reference to lord of the rings as well and have some character "Megul" calling the unique helmet as precious.

 

[MrGuyton]

Whilst I understand the OP sentiments I have to say I agree with this

Every game should be judged on it's own merits and faults.

I'm sure that there's a lot of soul searching going on in the CDPR boardroom the last thing they'd have wanted is to launch a new franchise in this way.

What they've achieved is quite awesome in many ways and epically flawed in others.

The comparison (not just in this thread )to Rockstar and Bethesda is quite tiresome to me, Rockstar have 30 odd years of experience building cop-chase car based ai and mechanics. They're bound to be the masters. Bethesda sometimes build amazing worlds... more recently not so much, because they really need a new engine.

To be honest I hadn't heard of CDPR before the witcher 3 even though I was aware of GOG.

New engine, new genre, new mechanics, new style of game, massively respected and much loved franchise, global pandemic, investor pressure, time limited government grants, expansive and ambitious project and unfortunately for them really good marketing.

It was a hell of a gamble, the launch was a disaster.

I'm fairly sure that they have all the feedback they currently need and some poor sod is currently spending their Saturday afternoon worrying about how they're ever going to get through the colour coded arm length list on the critical path analysis of know bugs and required features.

Fair play to them, they're working on it and running around like a bunch of drunk football hooligans shouting "We was robbed.... Where's the walk button" isn't needed anymore.

 

[Surma.]

I only played v. 1.12 but have to say as far as bugs go I also had an almost flawless experience on PC, compared to many many other games I played on or close to release - all Bethesda games to name just the most obvious.

There hasn't been any difference from patch 1.06 to 1.12 for high end PCs.

You have to be joking....

Nope. I've been more than happy with my PC game. I've only had trouble driving maybe 1-2 vehicles but outside of them I never had problem.

Sure the AI and spawning mechanic is not the most polished, but it's not like it their behavior never happened in other games.

Also I'm quite convinced that Skyrim had a ton of useless talents and same goes with many Fallout perks.

 

[Bartinga2077]

"THE RELEASE OF THIS GAME WASN'T REALLY THAT EXCEPTIONAL"​

Maybe. But it's sheer amount of entertaining content all the more.

 

[ya1]

You can't compare CP to other bad releases. Most bad releases are bugs mostly. CP is an unfinished product that's missing 2 years of development in many aspects not just stability. There are perks and bonuses that do nothing, unfinished areas, only two bosses, areas with hardly any activities, placeholder AI that can't go around obstacles, etc.

Also I'm quite convinced that Skyrim had a ton of useless talents and same goes with many Fallout perks.

But afaik none of those games got FAKE perks and stats that do nothing. Not nothing useful. Just nothing. Fake stats. As a long time rpg fan, I find such practice condemnable. You can't compare this to any other AAA game release in history.

 

[BigWezz69]

the game was surprisingly polished

 

[exxxed]

View attachment 11198197

Seems like normal human behavior in 2021, it's easily observable online especially...

 

[BigWezz69]

Seems like normal human behavior in 2021, it's easily observable online especially...

And I guess these days people levitate too right?