The sheer scale of Night City

[AshenBeans]

@torsti9
Interesting, Japantown is most certainly in Westbrook so i don't know what happened here, probably a mistake on CDPR's end
also in an interview CDPR did mention that the 2018 demo takes place in Watson, and that they've only shown "a little bit" of it, not sure if the first 8 minutes were taken into consideration, but since its a very early quest in the game, which takes place in a rundown apartment block, i'd say its Watson still.. maybe
that lone building you pointed out looks hilarious, i guess its an early build of the game

 

[John143]

I think it's unwise to consider the promo materials to be 100% the same when the game is released. In fact, afaik, in the description of the Collector's Edition presentation video, they say that the final contents of the Collector's Edition won't be 100% the same and are subject to change

 

[torsti9]

@Mr7Beans Thanks for the hint with the interview.

@Mr7Beans @John143

On the lower left side of the artbook double page there is a small ?map? of Japan town and in the uper right side they write "Night city ----- Watson", which looks to me like a title for the subchapter of the double page.
So i can't really believe that it is a mistake, because two times the same mistake in an important promo material...

What I've already thought about: Maybe there was a district called Japantown in Night City of 2020. Later there where a big corpo that build Watson and something went wrong. The area went down and maybe Arasaka came and occupied parts of Watson (there is atleast an area in Watson called Arasaka Waterfront). Then came the Asian immigrants as described in the artbook. And because in the area occupied by Arasaka now Japanese people(Arasaka is a Japanese corpo) had the control, the whole area together with the old district Japantown is now called Japan town. (This way one could although explain why it is spelled diffrent.)
That would fit the idea of a grown Night City quite well. But most propably you are right and it is a small mistake or a change.

By the way Kabuki ist the name for a form of Japanese theater. So Kabuki should be a district with a strong connection to Japanese culture, too.

I think the interview you mentioned is although very interesting. In the interview they(Patrick Mills) mentioned that they've only shown "a little bit" of Watson. Later say "The one you saw was Watson". That sounds like the first 8 minutes were taken into consideration.

That could maybe mean that although all of the LOD we have seen is from Watson. Okay the idea is a little bit far fetched but...

Why I think so: We have 3 posible location of Vs appartment:

1. pushbak: Then the demo would have took place in China town, Kabuki and Nid. We would have seen the skyline of orbital space center.

2. Rawls: Then the demo would have took place in China town and Nid. We would have seen the skyline of Kabuki and City Center.

3. Sir_Parsifal: Then the demo would have took place in Kabuki maybe Nid. We would have seen the skyline of Japantown and Heywood.

For all three cases the phrases "saw a little bit of Watson" and "The one you saw was Watson" doesn't seem right to me.

 

[Agient]

@torsti9 thanks for the high res pics!

I took a few minutes and placed different maps of Night city (that are shown in SE/CE promo pictures, and Youtube unpacking videos) beside each other.

Having only MS Paint at my disposal ATM, I half-adjusted these maps to see what we've got so far. Of course, this is all promo material and probably subject to change. Nonetheless, I enjoy putting this stuff together.

From the pictures of different promo maps, you can clearly see the misspelled 'LITLE CHINA' part, as well as the famous CITY CENTRE, DOWNTOWN and CORPO PLAZA. If you tilt another map from the promo pictures, you can locate WATSON and WATERFRONT (the latter being Arasaka Waterfront, I presume).

Comparing these maps and putting them together, one can get a closer sense of which part of NC we're dealing here, if we want to 'place ourselves' on the NC Subway (or Metro) map. Keep in mind - the Metro map is likely distorted, as are probably all other promo materials. But we can roughly get a grander idea of what was shown so far.

Below, I included three pictures. The first shows a rough placement of two promo maps, one to another.

In the second I used a higher resolution promo map and filled the rest, to show a proper tilted map of Watson and Arasaka Waterfront.

On the third, I simply tagged where we roughly are on the Metro map.

The broad red line going through the promo maps is likely the train line, while the yellow lines are probably car roads. Not just that, I think that the broad red line on the promo maps is actually the No.9 line on the Metro map, going along the coast. You can clearly see how the No.9 line on the Metro map passes the river canal and continues it's way onto Downtown - the same as the broad red line does in the promo maps.

Just my two cents, enjoy!

 

[Bloodartist]

There's no reason for all of Pacifica to be completely abandoned and in a state of decay.

Well yes, there is. Its called a nuclear bomb.

From the trailer, we can deduce that No-Tell Motel is located in Watson, Kabuki.

Makes sense, since Watson seems to be Dexter Deshawns homebase.

 

[torsti9]

@Agient thanks for the comparison of the two maps.

So now we know how the Watson coastline will most propably look like. And from that we can exclude pushbaks version. Although we have now some feeling about how big Watson is and from that I would say with the phrases "saw a little bit of Watson" and "The one you saw was Watson" the didn't mean that we haven't seen skylines of othere district like City Center or Heywood.

So think the only possible ideas are from Rawls and Sir_Parsifal. They both have one big diffrens. One say Vs appartment is in Little China and the other in Kabucki.

Kabucki stands for form of Japanese theater so I don't expect there to be so many cultural influence from China. Little China on the othere hand should have manly cultural influence from China. But maybe furthermore there will be cultural influence
from other asian countrys because Little China have been discribed as a melting pod(Sadly, I don't find a reference for that one.)

So we have to decide if the area of Vs appartment looks more like Little China or Kabucki.

Let's look into the 2018 gameplay demo.

Here we see a big gate. Could be a torana, Hongsalmuna, a pailou or a torii. A torana and a Hongsalmuna looks normally diffrent. So I think it is a Chinese pailou or a Japanese torii. Most propably it is a Shinmei torii, because a pailou has in most case three archeways and if they look normally like a Kashima, Kasuga or Hachiman torii.

Furthermore there are laterns in the image. But laterns a common things in China and Japan. Because there aren't any detailed pics of the laterns, I can't see any details that would be a hint to Japan or China.

Next we will go to Misty's Esoterica.

I think here we see incense sticks. This form of incense sticks are again common in China and Japan.

On the left we see a Japanese bonsai or a Chinese penjing/penzai. Because of the simple vase I would tend to a Japanese bonsai.

On the right we could see (but that is more a guess) one of the principal deities of Hinduism. That would hint to Hinduism(so India or Southeast Asia).

This are Maneki-neko. They come frome Japan. But today they are common all over Asia.

In the car schene at 26:17 we can see:

The 亍 is common in Mandarin. But it is uncommon in Kanji. So that could be a hint to China.

As you see, it is often difficult to decide from which cultur something descends. Buy the way I'm not from Asia so take take everythink with a grain of salt. I think one could find many more. But first, that should be enough.

By the way, if Rawls should be correct. Vs appartment could be in this megabuilding.

Edit:
At 27:30 of the 2018 gameplay demo we see

a highway and a mega building.

The highway could be the red one in agients map. Then it would go to Nid and we would meet the agent under a skyway(I hope that is another word for highway) to the Nid as mentioned in the demo.

This could then maybe be the shadow of the megabuilding.

 

[AshenBeans]

Solid digging, also i wanted to add, while Kabuki is a form of Japanese theater, it could also mean Kabukicho (Kabuki-cho)
short description:

the area looks like this

it's littered with neon signs and stuff, this is why i mentioned few pages back that the skyline from V's apartment is probably Kabuki but the idea of a district on two sides of the river seems weird, but hey, CDPR has no issue calling their city "megalopolis" so they seem very confident in its size

the only issue here is when you hack the malestrom gang you clearly see Watson KBK (Kabuki) except that area looks.. industrial? Northern Industrial District maybe? reminder that Meredith said to meet her "towards" the NID, by the time we actually get to Allfood, we probably are in NID

side note: in the Japanese Anime series "Gintama", the main area called "Kabuki district" which is based on the real life Kabukicho, its a show that takes place during Edo period so it won't look exactly like it

 

[torsti9]

@Mr7Beans

Thanks for the idea with Kabukicho. How could I miss it. Do you know the Yakuza game series. They often play in a area based on Kabukicho. Cd project is quite famous for their pop culture easter eggs. So the Gintama thing could be the origin of "Kabuki district".

Honestly, I didn't put that much attention to the Allfood part. So the "Watson KBK (Kabuki) " is new to me.

If I look at Agients map and the metro map, then i think that around the area where we meet the Militech agent all four subdistricts(Little China, Kabuki, Arasaka waterfront, Nid) of Watson come together. So it could actually be that Kabuki is a little bigger then we thought and Allfood and the skyline we see out of Vs appartment are both in Kabuki.

Atleast Kamurocho(based on Kabukicho) in the Yakuza game series was not all shinny but head also quite rundown places. We furthermore know that:

View attachment 11014844

View attachment 11014847
From the trailer, we can deduce that No-Tell Motel is located in Watson, Kabuki.

and that place looks quite rundown, too.

Another idea would be that the malestrom gang is actually Kabuki based and have just hidden themself fom the agent in Allfood.

 

[Sir_Parsifal]

Well yes, there is. Its called a nuclear bomb.

1. That's not why Pacifica is falling apart.
2. The nuclear bomb got set off in City Center

Post automatically merged: Sep 25, 2019

@torsti9 thanks for the high res pics!
View attachment 11016623

View attachment 11016626

I've already tried to join the two metro maps together earlier, but what I had were much lower-res pics. Still, even with higher-res pics, it just doesn't make any sense to me - why would the map be so small? Arasaka Waterfront seems to be located around Hyssop Drive on the metro map! One user suggested that maybe the Collector's Edition map isn't a very accurate rendition of the city - just as the Witcher 3 map wasn't very accurate.

Post automatically merged: Sep 25, 2019

@Agient thanks for the comparison of the two maps.

So now we know how the Watson coastline will most propably look like. And from that we can exclude pushbaks version. Although we have now some feeling about how big Watson is and from that I would say with the phrases "saw a little bit of Watson" and "The one you saw was Watson" the didn't mean that we haven't seen skylines of othere district like City Center or Heywood.

So think the only possible ideas are from Rawls and Sir_Parsifal. They both have one big diffrens. One say Vs appartment is in Little China and the other in Kabucki.

Kabucki stands for form of Japanese theater so I don't expect there to be so many cultural influence from China. Little China on the othere hand should have manly cultural influence from China. But maybe furthermore there will be cultural influence
from other asian countrys because Little China have been discribed as a melting pod(Sadly, I don't find a reference for that one.)

So we have to decide if the area of Vs appartment looks more like Little China or Kabucki.

Let's look into the 2018 gameplay demo.

View attachment 11016662
Here we see a big gate. Could be a torana, Hongsalmuna, a pailou or a torii. A torana and a Hongsalmuna looks normally diffrent. So I think it is a Chinese pailou or a Japanese torii. Most propably it is a Shinmei torii, because a pailou has in most case three archeways and if they look normally like a Kashima, Kasuga or Hachiman torii.

Furthermore there are laterns in the image. But laterns a common things in China and Japan. Because there aren't any detailed pics of the laterns, I can't see any details that would be a hint to Japan or China.

Next we will go to Misty's Esoterica.

View attachment 11016665

I think here we see incense sticks. This form of incense sticks are again common in China and Japan.

View attachment 11016668

On the left we see a Japanese bonsai or a Chinese penjing/penzai. Because of the simple vase I would tend to a Japanese bonsai.

On the right we could see (but that is more a guess) one of the principal deities of Hinduism. That would hint to Hinduism(so India or Southeast Asia).
View attachment 11016674
This are Maneki-neko. They come frome Japan. But today they are common all over Asia.

In the car schene at 26:17 we can see:

View attachment 11016680

The 亍 is common in Mandarin. But it is uncommon in Kanji. So that could be a hint to China.

As you see, it is often difficult to decide from which cultur something descends. Buy the way I'm not from Asia so take take everythink with a grain of salt. I think one could find many more. But first, that should be enough.

By the way, if Rawls should be correct. Vs appartment could be in this megabuilding.

View attachment 11016683


Edit:
At 27:30 of the 2018 gameplay demo we seeView attachment 11016692
a highway and a mega building.

The highway could be the red one in agients map. Then it would go to Nid and we would meet the agent under a skyway(I hope that is another word for highway) to the Nid as mentioned in the demo.

This could then maybe be the shadow of the megabuilding.
View attachment 11016695

I never said V's apartment would be in Kabuki. I said the landfill from this year's trailer might be located near Kabuki.

Either way, interesting analysis. Seems like they're mixing Japanese and Chinese characteristics - which sucks, because we still can't figure out V's apartment location for sure!

But I have to offer a bit of doubt though. I don't think the megabuilding you highlighted is V's megabuilding at all. The surroundings look completely different compared to the surroundings we saw on the trailers - which is my another point of criticism for Rawls' version.

As someone else wisely said earlier - the only thing that could be a quick proof/counterexample for either of the theses would be a simple answer to the question "is the map tilted or not?"
Someone should go ask CDPR on the Cyberpunk 2077 fanpage. Seems like I can't forward any messages to the fanpage staff either

Post automatically merged: Sep 25, 2019

the only issue here is when you hack the malestrom gang you clearly see Watson KBK (Kabuki) except that area looks.. industrial? Northern Industrial District maybe? reminder that Meredith said to meet her "towards" the NID, by the time we actually get to Allfood, we probably are in NID

Where does it say that? That doesn't make much sense, either in Rawls's version or mine.

I'm more and more sure with each day that what we got at the gameplay demo from 2018 was just a shrinked version of the city, with some physical workarounds for convenience, all the while maintaining the old order of names and shit

 

[torsti9]

I've already tried to join the two metro maps together earlier, but what I had were much lower-res pics. Still, even with higher-res pics, it just doesn't make any sense to me - why would the map be so small? Arasaka Waterfront seems to be located around Hyssop Drive on the metro map! One user suggested that maybe the Collector's Edition map isn't a very accurate rendition of the city - just as the Witcher 3 map wasn't very accurate.

Yes, if the map of the Collector's Edition is very accurate, then the map would be rather small. But as you mentioned it could inaccurate. Agient even found a image where they misspelled 'LITLE CHINA'. The artbook in the pic of the Collector's Edition says that Japantown lies in Watson. While everything else says Japantown lies in Westbrook. So Iguess there could be some further inaccuracies....

I never said V's apartment would be in Kabuki. I said the landfill from this year's trailer might be located near Kabuki.

Ups sorry, there I've been a little inaccurate. But I guess we should still expect the area of V's apartment to lean more towards Japanese culture then?

But I have to offer a bit of doubt though. I don't think the megabuilding you highlighted is V's megabuilding at all. The surroundings look completely different compared to the surroundings we saw on the trailers - which is my another point of criticism for Rawls' version.

You're right the surroundings look completely different compared to the surroundings we saw on the trailers. But the map could be inaccurate as you mentioned above so....
Furthermore i'm still not convinced from your or Rawls point of view. I just believe that if Rawls should be right and if the map from the Collector's Edition map is accurate at all, then this have to be the megabuilding, even if the surroundings look completely different (maybe do to inaccuracies of the map).

Either way, interesting analysis. Seems like they're mixing Japanese and Chinese characteristics - which sucks, because we still can't figure out V's apartment location for sure!

I still hope that I or anyone else find further evidence.

As someone else wisely said earlier - the only thing that could be a quick proof/counterexample for either of the theses would be a simple answer to the question "is the map tilted or not?"

I'm not shure about it. Do we know that the compass is constant for all of the metro map(okay this is a bit confusing but i don't know how to express it better).

Where does it say that? That doesn't make much sense, either in Rawls's version or mine.

Gameplay demo 2018 42:34 upper left corner.

I'm more and more sure with each day that what we got at the gameplay demo from 2018 was just a shrinked version of the city

That would be possible see post 263: There I explained why for all three cases of the position of Vs appartment the phrases "saw a little bit of Watson" and "The one you saw was Watson" doesn't seem right to me.

A further hint would be the malfunctioning LOD.

Did anyone notice this or am i seeing things?

View attachment 11016383

car parked outside of all foods, at night you can see two extra buildings in the background that you don't during daytime or any other marketing material for the game
i bet there's a whole lot more but the game isn't rendering them for one reason or another

View attachment 11016398

a tall building in the middle of nowhere???

 

[AshenBeans]

If we assume the red line is a highway, and the yellow is a tram, then this looks.. very similar

i wouldn't go so far as trying to differentiate sub-districts based on cultural items or whatever, while it's called Little China, you have to remember the entire city is heavily influenced by the Japanese, so i doubt LC will be 100% exclusively chinese
but yeah, i guess CDPR just cropped specific part of the map and showed it to us, constantly reminding "everything you see is subject to change"
we're just gonna have to wait and see, nearly 6 months now

 

[torsti9]

If we assume the red line is a highway, and the yellow is a tram, then this looks.. very similar

I don't think that the yellow line is the tram. There are really meany yellow lines in this part of the map

if we compare to the metro map.

while it's called Little China, you have to remember the entire city is heavily influenced by the Japanese, so i doubt LC will be 100% exclusively chinese

I guess not only Japanese.

Little China on the othere hand should have manly cultural influence from China. But maybe furthermore there will be cultural influence
from other asian countrys because Little China have been discribed as a melting pod(Sadly, I don't find a reference for that one.)

My Idea was that if we can find enough Chinese influence, then it should be Little China, because i don't think we'll find much Chinese influence in Kabucki.

 

[MauricioMM]

If we assume the red line is a highway, and the yellow is a tram, then this looks.. very similar

View attachment 11016857

That seems convincing. I do believe that this first building cluster seen there across the river/canal right before the chase is part of either City Center or Heywood (City Center most likely, it looks very business-y). However, I also believe that, assuming that is actually City Center, the elevated road seen in that screenshot might actually be the yellow line that goes across the water instead of the red one. But who knows really

 

[Rawls]

However, I also believe that the elevated road seen in that screenshot might actually be the yellow line that goes across the water instead of the red one. But who knows really

Yeah this is my thinking too. But who knows really? Vattier probably does ... hmmmm ...

 

[Maelcom404]

i bet there's a whole lot more but the game isn't rendering them for one reason or another

IMO, reason: would lag as hell.

 

[Snowflakez]

Yeah this is my thinking too. But who knows really? Vattier probably does ... hmmmm ...

Time to ping him until he answers, that's the only logical way to handle this situation.

 

[Agient]

I don't think the yellow line on the promo map is the metro/train simply because there are many yellow lines, all interconnected, going between buildings. I doubt that the metro would be this branched; even in real life you have one train line going through a part of the city, not several branched lines for each of the side streets and crossroads. So I still think that the yellow lines simply represent car roads

As to what the red line is - I still believe it's the metro line (No.9 from the metro map), or it could also be a car road, but (like some of you mentioned already) a bigger one - a highway, to be specific.

I also agree that the City Center is the cluster we see in the 2018 demo BEFORE the car chase. Even though it isn't as tall and imposing as the famous cluster that follows later, I believe the huge skyscrapers of City Center simply aren't visible from our car at that point in the demo and are hiding further (deeper) into the city, beyond our view. If we look at the promo maps (and assume they are somewhat accurate, of course), we can see that Corpo Plaza and it's tall skyscrapers lie deeper in the Center, not on the border.

The cluster we see later (after the car chase in 2018) appears again in the 2019 trailer and is, in my opinion, tourist-oriented Westbrook.

Cheers.

Edit: wording.

 

[Snowflakez]

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Perhaps I'll be wrong about the scale of City Center's buildings and my hopes that they'd more closely resemble the 2019 cinematic will be unfounded.

 

[SPicyBadaSS]

I'm hoping at best, that it's more around the immersive part of the city. Making it feel like it's in a world rather than just a city. Meaning that the life in the City can be different. When I explore worlds I can't help but notice things that are recycled, like in Fallout 4, sometimes in the Witcher and Skyrim, Assassin's Creed even, where there are huge worldscapes, but a lot of the assets made are recycled, and I mean often. Even game to game. Which is just poor creation habits and really annoying marketing tactics in life, which I am hoping that a lot of the design in Night City will feel alive, different, but similar, the kind of feel where you almost seem like theres nothing else on the planet, but the sound of the city hustle and raving.

 

[Sir_Parsifal]

That seems convincing.

Doesn't really. That would imply the city ends there right after the highway, and all that we see in the screenshot that other user posted would be all there is to see from City Center regarding the view from the river. It's impossible because:
1. We could see that same skyline from the AllFood Plant and it stretched out much further than that view
2. The skyscrapers in the high-res pic of the Night City map look nothing like the skyscrapers from the gameplay screenshot

And also, I don't think the yellow lines represent metro lines (that's what that user suggested) at all. There are much fewer metro lines. I think those are simple streets and nothing more

Post automatically merged: Sep 28, 2019

The cluster we see later (after the car chase in 2018) appears again in the 2019 trailer and is, in my opinion, tourist-oriented Westbrook.

Cheers.

Edit: wording.

That's exactly my hypothesis as well.