The sheer scale of Night City

[kofeiiniturpa]

And both obsessions are about equally as pointless!

They are.

Although, my original choice of word was not "obsession", and the meaning of the sentence got a bit different after it got changed. But nevertheless.... Obsessions are pointless if they can't be channeled towards anything constructive; and that hasn't really seemed to be the case around these parts aside for some "fun" debates here and there.

What can I say? Despite not being out yet, I’m really liking this game.

Good to hear.

 

[Sir_Parsifal]

As to the verticality of Cyberpunk - it looks like out of the gigantic complex that makes up a megabuilding, in Cyberpunk 2077 only 4 floors will be available:

Services, apartments, parking and lobby.

I hope they added more floors since June 2018 - almost 1.5 years have passed since then.
Also, I hope that we'll be able to enter every megabuilding and that every megabuilding will be different from each other. I definitely don't wanna see every megabuilding being just a repeated copy-paste of itself

Also, they could really work on the texture of those elevator buttons. They look so bad!

 

[Shavod]

There's no reason CDPR can't make an impressive, dense city that is still fairly large (horizontally too). Novigrad already blew many minds due to how realistic it felt, and that was on a MUCH, much smaller budget, with a much smaller team, and with older, less-advanced technology.

Yeah, and you probably don't remember how people were making all those prerelease calculations, map comparisons, etc. pointing out how tiny Novigrad is in The Witcher 3 before even playing it. Then it came out and now it's considered one of the biggest and most dense cities in open world RPG history. All I'm saying is to have a little more faith. There is more to the open world design then just straight lines. GTAV urban area takes two minutes to traverse with the car, but no one complains about the city being small, because when you play the game it actually feels big. And I have no doubts in my mind that this is going to be the case with Night City as well.

And just as a reminder:

Do you really think this part is going to feel miniscule when you get to play the game?

As to the verticality of Cyberpunk - it looks like out of the gigantic complex that makes up a megabuilding, in Cyberpunk 2077 only 4 floors will be available:

Yeah, but in the demo you can see that Apartments floor alone will consist of more then one explorable level.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Do you really think this part is going to feel miniscule when you get to play the game?

That outlined part? It kinda does look that way, yes.

One has to take into account, that those buildings - the very most of them - are just building shaped monoliths, and what grounds you have left to play in there, are the roads and the alleyways between the said monoliths.

 

[Sir_Parsifal]

Yeah, and you probably don't remember how people were making all those prerelease calculations, map comparisons, etc. pointing out how tiny Novigrad is in The Witcher 3 before even playing it. Then it came out and now it's considered one of the biggest and most dense cities in open world RPG history. All I'm saying is to have a little more faith. There is more to the open world design then just straight lines. GTAV urban area takes two minutes to traverse with the car, but no one complains about the city being small, because when you play the game it actually feels big. And I have no doubts in my mind that this is going to be the case with Night City as well.

And just as a reminder:

View attachment 11022752

Do you really think this part is going to feel miniscule when you get to play the game?


Yeah, but in the demo you can see that Apartments floor alone will consist of more then one explorable level.

The map is even bigger. The part you highlighted is even smaller/denser:

What still irks me is how the road layout (excluding the biggest boulevards and freeways) doesn't match up at all. Meaning there might be still some hope that this map doesn't depict the world accurately, with a possibility of the real world being bigger

 

[Shavod]

That outlined part? It kinda does look that way, yes.

One has to take into account, that those buildings - the very most of them - are just building shaped monoliths, and what grounds you have left to play in there, are the roads and the alleyways between the said monoliths.

You are missing the point. It's not about how it "looks like" in terms of playable space, but how it "feels like", meaning even if those buildings are not explorable, they still add to the feel and the scope of the city when watched from upclose.

 

[Snowflakez]

They are.

Although, my original choice of word was not "obsession", and the meaning of the sentence got a bit different after it got changed. But nevertheless.... Obsessions are pointless if they can't be channeled towards anything constructive; and that hasn't really seemed to be the case around these parts aside for some "fun" debates here and there.

Make no mistake, just because something is pointless doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.

I like having these debates (geography and mechanics alike) because they're fun! Most of the time. Plus, there's at least a 5% chance that some of the ideas will make it into the game, which has actually proven to be the case for some of my suggestions already. Not implying I'm the sole reason or even one of the reasons, of course.

Yeah, and you probably don't remember how people were making all those prerelease calculations, map comparisons, etc. pointing out how tiny Novigrad is in The Witcher 3 before even playing it. Then it came out and now it's considered one of the biggest and most dense cities in open world RPG history. All I'm saying is to have a little more faith. There is more to the open world design then just straight lines. GTAV urban area takes two minutes to traverse with the car, but no one complains about the city being small, because when you play the game it actually feels big. And I have no doubts in my mind that this is going to be the case with Night City as well.

And just as a reminder:

View attachment 11022752

Do you really think this part is going to feel miniscule when you get to play the game?


Yeah, but in the demo you can see that Apartments floor alone will consist of more then one explorable level.

I'm again going to assume this is a general set of points and not directed at me in particular, because I agree with you, and that's about what I said in the post you quoted.

I was initially a bit skeptical after seeing that world book map, but I've changed my mind upon further discussion and examination of this map and others (official and fan made). Although I don't quite understand what you're getting at with your map comparison. Can you elaborate?

Yeah, but in the demo you can see that Apartments floor alone will consist of more then one explorable level.

Yes, this. Those floor buttons are not actually floor buttons, in my opinion, but sectors of the building as a whole. Heck, parking could take up 20 floors, for all we know! There's a lotttttaaaa people in a megabuilding. I don't think we'll be able to explore every floor, but a lot more than that elevator keypad implies? Definitely, I think.

 

[Sir_Parsifal]

Could someone straighten this out neatly along the Z-axis (and other axes too, but Z most of all)? If it's even possible.

This is the highest res pic of that scene that I could find.

Also this:

 

[Shavod]

I'm again going to assume this is a general set of points and not directed at me in particular, because I agree with you, and that's about what I said in the post you quoted.

Well, this time I must admit that I just didn't understand you properly. Sorry about that.

I was initially a bit skeptical after seeing that world book map, but I've changed my mind upon further discussion and examination of this map and others (official and fan made). Although I don't quite understand what you're getting at with your map comparison. Can you elaborate?

It was just something to point out that flat map without any details doesn't really do justice to the actual size of the city on the street level. The way the city is set up on that close up, it definitely doesn't feel like something we will fully traverse in just two minutes.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

You are missing the point. It's not about how it "looks like" in terms of playable space, but how it "feels like", meaning even if those buildings are not explorable, they still add to the feel and the scope of the city when watched from upclose.

I don’t think I am all that much, though.
These sorts of GTA clones have been around plenty. It doesn’t take too much of imagination to look at that birds-eye-view picture and put yourself down there.

It might well look nice (at first), but there’s much more to how it ”feels like” than what’s on the surface. Most of these skyscraper ridden city games feel - not unexpectedly or surprisingly either - dead and downscaled even with busy looking streets. The surface level illusion of size therein is always weak and wears off fast as you get used to it. That’s the curse of having one full city in a single playable map.

I’m not really complaining about that. It was to be expected (and there’s nothing to be done about it by us). But it is also a bit of a shame considering the big picture.

Make no mistake, just because something is pointless doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.

Things - somewhat paradoxically - slow down the closer the release gets, but I don’t think I’ll stop before that.

 

[MauricioMM]

And both obsessions are about equally as pointless!

Obsessions are pointless if they can't be channeled towards anything constructive; and that hasn't really seemed to be the case around these parts aside for some "fun" debates here and there.

I think that, as long as we're felling personally fullfilled with those "obsessions" and our expectations aren't too unrealistic, I don't care if they have a point or not. But that's just my opinion, of course you can disagree.

That being said, I'm glad that some of the devs read the forums from time to time, even if they end up rolling their eyes or having a headache afterwards

I will take a smaller dense map filled with content and activities where you can enter a lot of buildings over a huge empty city like GTA, Watch Dogs etc any day.

[...]

Quality of content should never suffer due to size, especially not in a game like this.

I agree in part. I don't mind too much about "set dressing" in most open world games, the problem for me would lie in cases where the devs want you to invest too much time in downright uninteresting locations.

Two (in)famous examples of this: much of the content in Dragon Age Inquisition's Hinterlands, and of course Skellige's sea caches.

(Silver lining: selling and breaking down all that loot helped me big time with the crafting of all grandmaster sets, for real! )

Please CDPR, don't make us spend dozens of hours out in the Badlands combing the dirt just for unrewarding loot

Yeah, but in the demo you can see that Apartments floor alone will consist of more then one explorable level.

This. Although I wouldn't expect to have more than, say, 10 freely explorable floors per megabuilding. But, if they do have many floors like that, I hope they're not too boring to traverse and explore. Quality > Quantity

It might well look nice (at first), but there’s much more to how it ”feels like” than what’s on the surface. Most of these skyscraper ridden city games feel - not unexpectedly or surprisingly either - dead and downscaled even with busy looking streets. The surface level illusion of size therein is always weak and wears off fast as you get used to it. That’s the curse of having one full city in a single playable map.

I don't know your taste in games but you sound like someone who'd prefer something smaller but with lots of explorable footprint in return. If that's so, have you tried the Yakuza games? I haven't yet (someday hopefully) but people have recomended me those games for the type of rich exploration they feature.

----------



(I've been using "I don't care/mind" a lot, haven't I? Sorry if I don't have much to discuss, my opinions about what the game should/could offer us or not are just not that strong. Carry on everyone, don't mind me...... argh, there it is again! )

 

[Has_Neyn]

Hey all,

Apologies if this has been said before, but based on what I can deduce from these posts, this cluster of buildings from the 48 minute gameplay demo:

This cluster of buildings would be the City Centre, then?

And this cluster would be the same cluster as seen from the beginning shot in the cinematic trailer:

That cluster would be Westbrook, then.

 

[MauricioMM]

Hey all,

Apologies if this has been said before, but based on what I can deduce from these posts, this cluster of buildings from the 48 minute gameplay demo:


View attachment 11022767

This cluster of buildings would be the City Centre, then?

Welcome! And yeah, apparently it’s the northern edge of City Center.

And this cluster would be the same cluster as seen from the beginning shot in the cinematic trailer:
View attachment 11022770

That cluster would be Westbrook, then.

We’re still debating that, but some of us currently believe the same you do: that it’s Westbrook, a part of it (the Japan Town subdistrict) to be more precise.

 

[StereoFlava]

With improvements in each of these areas, it's perfectly reasonable to expect both a decent sized map and nice content density -- and that's precisely what they've promised to deliver. We all know the map won't be Watch Dogs 2 or GTA V size, and that's for the best. But something a bit smaller than Velen and Novigrad combined? Seems perfectly reasonable to me. By ditching the extra size, verticality can be increased.

But that's exactly what we are getting? i dont see how that map is small? Not to mention some of it is missing too.

 

[Snowflakez]

But that's exactly what we are getting? i dont see how that map is small? Not to mention some of it is missing too.

Wait... Yes? I know. I'm confused. I thought you were saying the opposite.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

Yes, this. Those floor buttons are not actually floor buttons, in my opinion, but sectors of the building as a whole. Heck, parking could take up 20 floors, for all we know! There's a lotttttaaaa people in a megabuilding. I don't think we'll be able to explore every floor, but a lot more than that elevator keypad implies? Definitely, I think.

Actually what we need is usable stairs, so that it all really connects.

Post automatically merged: Dec 5, 2019

This. Although I wouldn't expect to have more than, say, 10 freely explorable floors per megabuilding. But, if they do have many floors like that, I hope they're not too boring to traverse and explore. Quality > Quantity

I wouldn't say that for everything, and I think that when it comes to open world exploration you better have a lots of quantity (even if proceduraly generated) and a few quality places than just those few quality places. Actually I use a mod in Fallout 4 for that so that every building can actually be visited, and it makes a better impression overall than telling myself "If I can visit a place then that place has a real purpose so I must find it."

Besides I don't see most people actually buying Kobe beef over a lot more of regular beef, so they must think that sometimes you better have quantity.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I don't know your taste in games but you sound like someone who'd prefer something smaller but with lots of explorable footprint in return. If that's so, have you tried the Yakuza games? I haven't yet (someday hopefully) but people have recomended me those games for the type of rich exploration they feature.

I’m not all that interested in action games anymore, just RPG’s and strategy, but I’ll take the tip under advicement.

 

[Snowflakez]

Actually what we need is usable stairs, so that it all really connects.

That's a very practical suggestion, thank you, Kakita.

 

[Suhiira]

It might well look nice (at first), but there’s much more to how it ”feels like” than what’s on the surface. Most of these skyscraper ridden city games feel - not unexpectedly or surprisingly either - dead and downscaled even with busy looking streets. The surface level illusion of size therein is always weak and wears off fast as you get used to it. That’s the curse of having one full city in a single playable map.

I think a lot of that has to do with NPC activity.

In many/most games they simply mill around and occasionally make a generic comment that you soon start to ignore because it's the same very limited set of comments over-and-over.

Great fodder for memes tho!

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I think a lot of that has to do with NPC activity.

It’s certainly a factor.

But I think the center of it is what all you, the player can do there. Visual stimulants can only last for so long.