The sheer scale of Night City

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Yes and Las Vegas expanded quite a bit over 60ish years. Whereas Pacifica was never finished but abandoned. Also the welcome sign faces a downtown metropolis, not a desert which means logically it would have been placed somewhere near the boarder between the two.

There's no reason for all of Pacifica to be completely abandoned and in a state of decay. Part of it near the river could be doing okay, but further south and to the coast, where the failed investments happened, that's where there'd be a lot of desolation.

Something like this:

1567900893172.png


Though looking at it now, I noticed my Pacifica is a bit too small, at least compared to City Center. I adjusted it to the size of the buildings there. This ain't the final version, don't worry

1567901160425.png


I think the tallest skyscrapers that we could see in Deep Dive were in the red circle. The position of V overlooking the OASC is probably somewhere near the green dot. The pier to the left of the red circle could be the pier the rollercoaster is on. Whatdya think?
 
There's no reason for all of Pacifica to be completely abandoned and in a state of decay. Part of it near the river could be doing okay, but further south and to the coast, where the failed investments happened, that's where there'd be a lot of desolation.

Something like this:

View attachment 11014790

Though looking at it now, I noticed my Pacifica is a bit too small, at least compared to City Center. I adjusted it to the size of the buildings there. This ain't the final version, don't worry

View attachment 11014793

I think the tallest skyscrapers that we could see in Deep Dive were in the red circle. The position of V overlooking the OASC is probably somewhere near the green dot. The pier to the left of the red circle could be the pier the rollercoaster is on. Whatdya think?
Seems plausible to me. What's your Pacifica overlay from?
 
Seems plausible to me. What's your Pacifica overlay from?

It's my composite image taken from 2 screenshots, as similar maps popped up twice. Once at around 11:45 in Deep Dive and once at 12:50 (for a fraction of a second there, as the map zooms out quickly to show all of the USA).
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Final version of the map, with an improved version of Pacifica

 
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It's my composite image taken from 2 screenshots, as similar maps popped up twice. Once at around 11:45 in Deep Dive and once at 12:50 (for a fraction of a second there, as the map zooms out quickly to show all of the USA).
Post automatically merged:

Final version of the map, with an improved version of Pacifica

Looks good to me! I'll be amazed if that city skyline bit from the 2019 trailer is Westbrook, though. Buildings look super tall and dense, seems more like a City Center pic to me.
 
Looks good to me! I'll be amazed if that city skyline bit from the 2019 trailer is Westbrook, though. Buildings look super tall and dense, seems more like a City Center pic to me.

According to the sourcebooks (or maybe CDPR? I dont remember), Westbrook is a rich, luxurious district full of loaded tourists, investors and what not.
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Also, I feel like this view

1567957983292.png


1567958026074.png


Is the only shot that shows at least a bit of City Center.
From the trailer, we can deduce that No-Tell Motel is located in Watson, Kabuki.
1567958110452.png


To add to that, the skyscrapers that can be seen in the screenshots I just gave look somewhat different to the skyscrapers that I presume to be in Westbrook. And the very strongly highlighted skyscraper in the far distance, lit by light-blue neon lights, also doesn't look like anything we saw so far. That's why I presume the skyscrapers in the foreground are the skyscrapers of Watson located closely to City Center, between the river and Kabuki, and the very bright skyscraper should be then located in City Center. This would mean that it's the only instance in which we saw a glimpse of City Center (apart from some very tall megabuildings in the 2018 E3 trailer intro).

1567958337715.png

I would presume this is how the whole area looks:
1567959379986.png

Now to add to that, a very important bit that seems plausible. Remember the landfill? The one that V ends up in?
I think it's here:
1567959263408.png

Why?
Look at this very high-res screenshot:
https://i.redd.it/nkwooexkh3831.png

And another view from the landfill:
1567959077557.png


The idea of a landfill with massive cranes (that seem abandoned) does indeed fit in with the concept of it being in Watson, a former industrial district. Though I do think there's a possibility the landfill is somewhere over here, and not where I pointed it could be:
1567959430110.png


So I suspect both locations.
What do you guys think?
 
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i don't know how i missed that no-tell motel is in watson
if the e3 cinematic trailer REALLY takes place in watson and not some mistake then i better contain my excitement
 
Hi all, first post here.

I just want to say I'm very impressed with all the discussion and analysis about the map and environment. This is definitely one of the aspects of this game I'm looking forward to the most.

To contribute my 2 cents regarding the skyline seen in the E3 2019 Cinematic trailer, I'm fairly positive this is looking at the same distinctive grouping of skyscrapers we saw in the 2018 trailers. See below for a comparison:

2018_skyline.png2019_skyline.png

We can see several distinctive landmarks in both scenes: 1) The round advertisement building, 2) The bridge, 3) The burger billboard, 4) Another smaller round advertisement building, and 5) The sky bridge structure.

A few things to keep in mind - a year of development has passed between the two trailers, and it's entirely plausible that buildings, billboards, and other features have been moved around. Also, the 2019 trailer was CGI rendered by a 3rd party and thus may not entirely match where CDPR has things. For instance, in the 2018 trailer the big advertisement building was behind the bridge, but in the 2019 trailer it is in front.

If the consensus is the skyline we saw in 2018 was in fact located in Westbrook (and I tend to agree), then this is what we are seeing again in the 2019 trailer, again from the perspective of Watson. The scene from the hotel does seem to be looking at a different area, though. But given that Dexter DeShawn seems to be the prominent fixer in Watson, it would make sense that the hotel he meets V at would be located there.
 
Hi all, first post here.

I just want to say I'm very impressed with all the discussion and analysis about the map and environment. This is definitely one of the aspects of this game I'm looking forward to the most.

To contribute my 2 cents regarding the skyline seen in the E3 2019 Cinematic trailer, I'm fairly positive this is looking at the same distinctive grouping of skyscrapers we saw in the 2018 trailers. See below for a comparison:

View attachment 11014883View attachment 11014886

We can see several distinctive landmarks in both scenes: 1) The round advertisement building, 2) The bridge, 3) The burger billboard, 4) Another smaller round advertisement building, and 5) The sky bridge structure.

A few things to keep in mind - a year of development has passed between the two trailers, and it's entirely plausible that buildings, billboards, and other features have been moved around. Also, the 2019 trailer was CGI rendered by a 3rd party and thus may not entirely match where CDPR has things. For instance, in the 2018 trailer the big advertisement building was behind the bridge, but in the 2019 trailer it is in front.

If the consensus is the skyline we saw in 2018 was in fact located in Westbrook (and I tend to agree), then this is what we are seeing again in the 2019 trailer, again from the perspective of Watson. The scene from the hotel does seem to be looking at a different area, though. But given that Dexter DeShawn seems to be the prominent fixer in Watson, it would make sense that the hotel he meets V at would be located there.

Yeah, the first shot from the 2019 trailer is the same cluster of skyscrapers, but then the scene after that shows, what seems to me to be, a different skyscraper cluster. I feel like with the first scene they wanted to assuage everyone (who was butthurt because they showed the trailer in sunlight) by showing the same cluster from a year ago under cover of darkness, for a change.
 
According to the sourcebooks (or maybe CDPR? I dont remember), Westbrook is a rich, luxurious district full of loaded tourists, investors and what not.
Post automatically merged:

Also, I feel like this view

View attachment 11014844

View attachment 11014847

Is the only shot that shows at least a bit of City Center.
From the trailer, we can deduce that No-Tell Motel is located in Watson, Kabuki.
View attachment 11014850

To add to that, the skyscrapers that can be seen in the screenshots I just gave look somewhat different to the skyscrapers that I presume to be in Westbrook. And the very strongly highlighted skyscraper in the far distance, lit by light-blue neon lights, also doesn't look like anything we saw so far. That's why I presume the skyscrapers in the foregrounds are the skyscrapers of Watson located closely to City Center, between the river and Kabuki, and the very bright skyscraper should be then located in City Center. This would mean that it's the only instance in which we saw a glimpse of City Center (apart from some very tall megabuildings in the 2018 E3 trailer intro).

View attachment 11014856
I would presume this is how the whole area looks:
View attachment 11014874
Now to add to that, a very important bit that seems plausible. Remember the landfill? The one that V ends up in?
I think it's here:
View attachment 11014871
Why?
Look at this very high-res screenshot:
https://i.redd.it/nkwooexkh3831.png

And another view from the landfill:
View attachment 11014868

The idea of a landfill with massive cranes (that seem abandoned) does indeed fit in with the concept of it being in Watson, a former industrial district. Though I do think there's a possibility the landfill is somewhere over here, and not where I pointed it could be:
View attachment 11014877

So I suspect both locations.
What do you guys think?
Damn, you're right. Well spotted.

Hi all, first post here.

I just want to say I'm very impressed with all the discussion and analysis about the map and environment. This is definitely one of the aspects of this game I'm looking forward to the most.

To contribute my 2 cents regarding the skyline seen in the E3 2019 Cinematic trailer, I'm fairly positive this is looking at the same distinctive grouping of skyscrapers we saw in the 2018 trailers. See below for a comparison:

View attachment 11014883View attachment 11014886

We can see several distinctive landmarks in both scenes: 1) The round advertisement building, 2) The bridge, 3) The burger billboard, 4) Another smaller round advertisement building, and 5) The sky bridge structure.

A few things to keep in mind - a year of development has passed between the two trailers, and it's entirely plausible that buildings, billboards, and other features have been moved around. Also, the 2019 trailer was CGI rendered by a 3rd party and thus may not entirely match where CDPR has things. For instance, in the 2018 trailer the big advertisement building was behind the bridge, but in the 2019 trailer it is in front.

If the consensus is the skyline we saw in 2018 was in fact located in Westbrook (and I tend to agree), then this is what we are seeing again in the 2019 trailer, again from the perspective of Watson. The scene from the hotel does seem to be looking at a different area, though. But given that Dexter DeShawn seems to be the prominent fixer in Watson, it would make sense that the hotel he meets V at would be located there.

Two possibilities: One, they VASTLY exaggerated the size of these buildings in the 2019 CGI trailer to make the game seem more impressive than it is, or two, they've since updated that area with larger buildings.

EDIT: Or three, I'm missing something.
 
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There should be a countryside part of night city where it's more wilderness and there less people and more nature just to balance out the world.

Actually there will be a countryside called The Badlands, where most of The Nomads gang resides, but it won't have too much flora nor fauna.
 
To contribute my 2 cents regarding the skyline seen in the E3 2019 Cinematic trailer, I'm fairly positive this is looking at the same distinctive grouping of skyscrapers we saw in the 2018 trailers. See below for a comparison:
I agree they're the same skyscrapers, but think that points to them being Kabuki, not Westbrook. In the demo that shot is giving a sense of place, why would they show an unrelated part of the city? More likely it's showing us where V is meeting up with Dex (which we know is in Kabuki in Watson).

EDIT: Another factor leading to this conclusion is the official description of Heywood. "Living in one the neighborhoods of predominantly Heywood means you successfully managed to climb the social ladder. Heywood is a massive suburban housing district with an underlying gang problem." For those building to the East of V's apartment to be Westbrook, the skyscrapers to her south would have to be Heywood. Those skyscrapers do not look very suburban to me because suburbs implies residential housing.
 
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I should mention that one of the many reasons (but not the strongest one, mind you) why I believe the previously mentioned and often seen skyscraper cluster might be in Westbrook and not in City Center is because of a concept art from the artbook seen in the Collector’s Edition video:

cyberpunk-2077-artbook-01.png

Look at the lower right picture inside the book. That skyline features a set of veeery tall skyscrapers (Arasaka HQ among those, maybe?) that, quite like most of City Center, have not appeared in any other video or screenshot yet.

I know that panorama might be just an idea that in the end didn’t make it in the current version of the game but, since all we’ve discussed are mostly unconfirmed theories, another one couldn’t hurt :LOL:


P.S.: those artworks seen in the book, especially the larger images, look pretty cool :cool:
 
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I should mention that one of the many reasons (but not the strongest one, mind you) why I believe the previously mentioned and often seen skyscraper cluster might be in Westbrook and not in City Center is because of a concept art from the artbook seen in the Collector’s Edition video:


Look at the lower right picture inside the book. That skyline features a set of veeery tall skyscrapers (Arasaka HQ among those, maybe?) that, quite like most of City Center, have not appeared in any other video or screenshot yet.

I know that panorama might be just an idea that in the end didn’t make it in the current version of the game but, since all we’ve discussed are mostly unconfirmed theories, another one couldn’t hurt :LOL:


P.S.: those artworks seen in the book, especially the larger images, look pretty cool :cool:
Very excited to see how massive City Center will be! Original 2012 trailer vibes, maybe? Hmmm.
 
OK guys, let me just interupt this topic to say - you are all breathtaking! :cool:

THIS is what we should do on CDPR forum about CP2077. Talk creative about this game, and try to speculate about game based on footage we seen. This throws me back in 2014. when we discussed Witcher 3.
Somehow it seems to me that this time around what happens is people attack CDPR much more than discussing the game and its possibilities.
 
@Rawls
Exactly, so they highlight those skyscrapers in the CGI trailer but then show a completely different area afterwards? not convincing, that's why i thought that area could be Kabuki, Watson, but this is also hard to believe since it means Watson is HUGE and god knows how bigger City Center/Westbrook could be, its a current gen game after all :shrug:
moving on, if those buildings (East of V's apartment) are in fact Westbrook and not Kabuki, then its even harder to believe that the ones in the South are part of Heywood, a residential area means something similar to this:

Untitled.jpg


this is the closet thing they've shown to a suburban area, now CDPR mentioned that each district has its own few sub-districts (like Watson's kabuki and little china) so Heywood could have a rich subdistrict, maybe
at this point, i won't believe anything unless its confirmed by CDPR, too much speculations and inconsistencies

@MauricioMM
that artwork reminds me of this

1.jpg

it would be great if that's actually in-game
 
@Aedan2 obligatory "No, you're breathtaking!" :cool:

moving on, if those buildings (East of V's apartment) are in fact Westbrook and not Kabuki, then its even harder to believe that the ones in the South are part of Heywood, a residential area means something similar to this:

View attachment 11014949

this is the closet thing they've shown to a suburban area, now CDPR mentioned that each district has its own few sub-districts (like Watson's kabuki and little china) so Heywood could have a rich subdistrict, maybe

Based on what little we know about the district's description and the blanks I fill with my imagination, I picture Heywood like a middle ground (literally and figuratively) between City Center and Santo Domingo. I imagine it as a half urban, half suburban, middle-class area with a business-y, more cosmopolitan subarea and a lower-class subdistrict with a mostly Latino population.

(In fact, I'm willing to bet that the artwork of the Valentinos steelcase shows said Latino subdistrict.)

That being said, I believe that scene in the trailer with the hillbillies is probably set in either one of the outlying districts, like Santo Domingo, or the Badlands.
@MauricioMM
that artwork reminds me of this

View attachment 11014952
it would be great if that's actually in-game

Yeah, that looks like what I think the tallest skyscrapers in 2077's City Center (Corpo Plaza, basically) could look like.
 
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Okay so this is something interesting. It'll seem unrelated at first, but it'll be helpful.

So basically, the "official" data on the map size of the Witcher 3 is wrong. Blatantly.

At some conference, CDPR stated that all of the Wtcher 3 maps amount to 136 sq km. We know for a fact (and the fans confirmed it) that the GTA 5 map is 81 sq km in size.

Now, the map of TW3 can't be that big. It can't be 1.5 times bigger than the GTA 5 map. Why? A few reasons.

1. By comparing the width of a two-lane road in GTA 5, we find that it's roughly as wide as the distance between the centers of the two shacks in this location: https://witcher.fandom.com/wiki/Codgers'_Quarry
IF this is true, then the map of TW3 is smaller than we think it is. Far smaller. I adjusted the sizes of the maps so that the distance between the two shacks matches 1:1 with the width of a two-lane road in the GTA 5 map.

2. The second thing that proves that the map of TW3 is far smaller than 136 sq km is a calculation of size using the in-game distances measured in some weird, unknown units.
The game world is roughly 3050 units by 3050 units. We know for a fact that each unit corresponds roughly to 0.9 meters, or a yard (as proven here: https://forums.cdprojektred.com/ind...st-marker-is-it-based-on-feet-or-meter.63566/ ).
That would be around 2750 meters by 2750 meters. That's roughly 7.5 sq km.

Keep in mind that all the time we've been talking about Velen. By adjusting the map of Skellige to Velen, we find that it's roughly 2 times larger than Velen - it's around 14.5 sq km.

So we come to the conclusion - the actual size of the map of TW3 is NOT 136 sq km - but 22 sq km!
Here's what it looks like:

1568046281542.png


And my personal conclusion?:

Wow. GTA 5 is big. Much bigger than I thought.
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Now, let's come back to Cyberpunk 2077 and see how the comparison I just made is relevant.
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So basically - my hypothesis is that when CDPR said "Night City will be a bit smaller than the world of the Witcher 3" they meant the fake, 136 sq km world of TW3. I really hope they didn't mean the actual, real-size version of the world haha. That would be a disaster.
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All of this means I'll have to improve my map size comparison. But what I'm sure about is that Night City, Badlands included, will be roughly between GTA 5 and fake-TW3 in terms of size.
Post automatically merged:

I also made some adjustments - I now realize how big the map of GTA 5 is, and I adjusted the size of Night City accordingly by comparing the widths of streets and sizes of the buildings.

This is the final version of my improved map comparison. This is probably how big Night City is going to be.

1568047779032.png
 
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That being said, I believe that scene in the trailer with the hillbillies is probably set in either one of the outlying districts, like Santo Domingo, or the Badlands.
Agreed. I think it's one of those two as well. That picture is more rural, not suburban.
 


So from the looks of it it could be roughly 1.5 times larger than the GTA 5 map.

Which would put it at around ~120 sq km.

REAL 120 sq km. Not fake 136 sq km. Which means it's in fact gonna be a bit smaller than the fake-size TW3 map, but... 5.5 times larger than the actual TW3 map.
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@Rawls
Exactly, so they highlight those skyscrapers in the CGI trailer but then show a completely different area afterwards? not convincing, that's why i thought that area could be Kabuki, Watson
They wanted to show us how Night City looks at night. It might be that this skyscraper cluster in Westbrook is simply the second biggest one in the game, with the biggest one being in City Center. And they might simply not want to show us City Center in its full glory yet. It's also the skyscraper cluster that got a lot of fame and a lot of people wanted to see it at night.

Now, as I said, the scene at No-Tell Motel overlooking another skyscraper cluster does indeed seem to be showing a different skyscraper cluster. I can't see any similarity between that cluster and the cluster which I presume to be in Westbrook. The bright skyscraper in the background also doesn't look like anything what we've seen so far. That's why I presume the scene at No-Tell Motel shows a different skyscraper cluster, one in Watson, with a tiny portion of City Center in the background.

but this is also hard to believe since it means Watson HUGE and god knows how bigger City Center/Westbrook could be, its a current gen game after all :shrug:
moving on, if those buildings (East of V's apartment) are in fact Westbrook and not Kabuki, then its even harder to believe that the ones in the South are part of Heywood, a residential area means something similar to this:
View attachment 11014949

this is the closet thing they've shown to a suburban area, now CDPR mentioned that each district has its own few sub-districts (like Watson's kabuki and little china) so Heywood could have a rich subdistrict, maybe
at this point, i won't believe anything unless its confirmed by CDPR, too much speculations and inconsistencies

This looks like Badlands more like, not Heywood. I think it's entirely possible that it's Heywood - the skyscrapers to the south of V (the ones I presume to be in Heywood) are in fact pretty small, with nothing taller to the south of them (indicating that there might be more residential, more mid- and low-height architecture behind them):

1568051190389.png

1568051275079.png

Idk about you guys, but these skyscrapers simply seem to be too small to be part of City Center.
 
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