The story doesn't explain this about Relic (SPOILER!)

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This theory has one hole. If that minor virus was the key. Saburo's ending doesn't make much sense. Unless we start giving more restrictions to the chip. It needs this random virus to work. And Relic can only work on biological family members. I wish they didn't have that info on the chip failing. Because it causes these type of issues. It would have been better that they failed because they had to keep refining the chip, in getting 100% of the mind transferred to the chip. Because it needs this random virus. Or the right way someone has to be shot in the head to work. It be not viable.

You are assuming there is only one way to skin the cat. Hellman and a team of dedicated researchers have been working tirelessly to solve the issues of RELIC2.0. Via means not fully elaborated in the "Where is My Mind" ending they achieve success when using a donor with the same genetic structure. If you read the e-mails between Yorinobu and Netwatch they similarly claim that they can succeed in activating the biochip with their own methodology where Hellman's team has failed up until that point. For all we know, while V is sedated and undergoing treatment to remove the biochip, the researchers discover that his mind had undergone mental conditioning prior to the application of RELIC2.0 and replicated those same conditions in Yorinobu and Saburo.
 
Fascinating convo, did i not see in a playthrough the relics success is like 19% or something, im sure one of the terminals said something along the lines of character xx done with 5 spares or something, after savingthe engram onto a chip from paying customers thye made backups of them , im guessing they experimented with relics to find info on people to maybe them help them get to lean arasakas way in game universe, maybe i misunderstood that
 
researchers discover that his mind had undergone mental conditioning prior to the application of RELIC2.0 and replicated those same conditions in Yorinobu and Saburo.
So tech can just push a button and poof. The person can learn this mental condition instantly. Adding more convoluted stuff to the chip. Especially on a subject who wants to suicide/hates his father. This also asks the question. We did the monk stuff. This could have reinforced V and could have helped him survive. Now... you're actually making me think of a better story. Imagine that's what we could have done to get a good ending. Mentally battle the chip. And one of the requirements was doing the monk side mission. That's more interesting. Than every ending leaving us on a stupid cliffhanger.
 
So tech can just push a button and poof. The person can learn this mental condition instantly. Adding more convoluted stuff to the chip.
I'm assuming you are being intentionally obtuse. Presuming my fan-theory has any legs, V's neural network would have had a logfile of it's infection and (assuming Vic was successful) purging of CN-07. During the multiple biological and neural network scans V would have undergone as part of his surgeries at Arasaka, it is not unreasonable to assume one of the technicians would have learned of the viral infection. A.I. viruses have very distinct signatures. I wouldn't take a great deal of effort by Arasaka's many many many netrunners to trace it back to it's origin. At that point its a pretty simple case of Quid Pro Quo, NightCorp give Arasaka Corp all the details on CN-07 and NightCorp gets some corporate backscratch down the line. Upon learning that the purpose of CN-07 is mental conditioning, Hellman's team experiences a eureka moment and begins using mental conditioning of donor bodies as a pre-requisite to further trial runs involving RELIC2.0.

But, once again, this is assuming that there is only one way to skin the cat. I don't believe this is the case. I only proposed this crazy fan theory as the basis for differentiating between V's experience with the biochip and all the trial failures that preceded him. There are likely other solutions that can similarly bridge the gap and both Arasaka and Netwatch were actively pursuing them.
 
I feel like people overanalyze relics functions by using irl logic, it doesnt quite work. Relic is basically cyperpunks magic, it does what it does because it can.
And here is the problem.

It's science fiction and not fantasy. If you make a fantasy story, it's OK to not question the logic.
In a scifi story however, it has to stand up to existing principles. Especially when you borrow them from the real world.
The relic has functions that are explained using in-universe law. Nanites is a good example. It works within the suspenion of disbelief. The DNA thing however, does not work, because it goes against what we know and what the writers want to capitalism on.

That's the problem with science fiction. You can off course write together some bullshit but you at least have to explain how your bullshit works.
Otherwise, you end up with space magic and fantasy.

Wrong genre.
 
And here is the problem.

It's science fiction and not fantasy. If you make a fantasy story, it's OK to not question the logic.
In a scifi story however, it has to stand up to existing principles. Especially when you borrow them from the real world.
The relic has functions that are explained using in-universe law. Nanites is a good example. It works within the suspenion of disbelief. The DNA thing however, does not work, because it goes against what we know and what the writers want to capitalism on.

That's the problem with science fiction. You can off course write together some bullshit but you at least have to explain how your bullshit works.
Otherwise, you end up with space magic and fantasy.

Wrong genre.
DNA doesnt work because you said so? They have machines which can somehow make digital copy of you with all the characteristics and so on, rearange neural pathways completely to become whole new person yet altering DNA is somehow impossible?
There is zero contradiction, just because you dont like doesnt make it true.
Also magic and science are both more or less the same
 
DNA doesnt work because you said so? They have machines which can somehow make digital copy of you with all the characteristics and so on, rearange neural pathways completely to become whole new person yet altering DNA is somehow impossible?
There is zero contradiction, just because you dont like doesnt make it true.
Also magic and science are both more or less the same
No they are certainly not the same.

This is a science fiction story. If you can't explain it, it does not make sense. If you don't explain it with your ingame lore, real world principles apply.

In short for you. Get education.
 
No they are certainly not the same.

This is a science fiction story. If you can't explain it, it does not make sense. If you don't explain it with your ingame lore, real world principles apply.

In short for you. Get education.
Loooool, its same shit, real world principles apply to fantasy but they can bend them using magic same fucking way science fiction uses "science". Same bullshit diffrent setting but i guess these concepts are below such educated person as you :shrug:
 
Loooool, its same shit, real world principles apply to fantasy but they can bend them using magic same fucking way science fiction uses "science". Same bullshit diffrent setting but i guess these concepts are below such educated person as you 🤷‍♂️
Basically in fantasy, the explanation is "cause our winds of magic allow us to do things".

In science fiction, the explanation is "cause of these principles and the laws of nature we are allowed to do things".

The problem with science is that you can not break certain laws and when you break them, you have to explain why and how.
In the case of the DNA bullshit, it is stated that the nanites of the chip change the neural nets of the brain, so you become Johnny. DNA has nothing to do with how and what we think.

Even if the DNA part was properly foreshadowed and not just added in the epilogue, it would not have any serious consequences, because in the world of cyberpunk, DNA modification is a commercially available technology.
 
Well, Considering nanotech Arasaka is not even the near being best in that field. Nanobots can also repair damage done if its coded with original DNA. We all can agree that Relic is Magitech and is therefore bound rules of magitech!
 
Basically in fantasy, the explanation is "cause our winds of magic allow us to do things".

In science fiction, the explanation is "cause of these principles and the laws of nature we are allowed to do things".

The problem with science is that you can not break certain laws and when you break them, you have to explain why and how.
In the case of the DNA bullshit, it is stated that the nanites of the chip change the neural nets of the brain, so you become Johnny. DNA has nothing to do with how and what we think.

Even if the DNA part was properly foreshadowed and not just added in the epilogue, it would not have any serious consequences, because in the world of cyberpunk, DNA modification is a commercially available technology.
What one does and cant do is defined by author writing it, as both magic and science can be more or less limitless, though indeed it breaks story immersion if author breaks its own story rules.
You can call it bullshit, bad writing, lack of foreshafowing but its within realms of posibilities, and they were explained long ago, chip is experimental thus giving author excuse to change, introduce, delete its mechaniqs as story progresses
 
What one does and cant do is defined by author writing it, as both magic and science can be more or less limitless, though indeed it breaks story immersion if author breaks its own story rules.
You can call it bullshit, bad writing, lack of foreshafowing but its within realms of posibilities, and they were explained long ago, chip is experimental thus giving author excuse to change, introduce, delete its mechaniqs as story progresses
It's off course defined by the writer and if a writer decids to write bullshit, I can't stop it.

I can however call them out in their bullshit.

If this was a novel, it would rot on the shelves.
 
when writing story parts about the relic they kinda used the wrong wording or terminology or both. I look at the Relic as let say fat32 and the human brain as NTFS. When soulkiller was used on johnny they were still using fat32 format and it had different features then the newer version.

So when the relic activated on V it started to reformat the brain to NTFS and we all know what happens if you interrupt a format in progress. You corrupt the data. Hence the reason the chip couldnt be removed. ALso the port it was in could of been damage aswell. I also think V's installed implants helped the chip to revive V.

I think the damage they were talking about wasn't totally physical damage. The relic started the reformat process and also activated the engram within. which wasn't suppose to happen normally.
 
I actually have a crazy theory as well. If you read the Transcript of the Relic 2.0 specifications given to V by Anders Hellman, you learn that several attempts to use RELIC 2.0 to implant both a digitized engram and enhanced personality construct had resulted in failure. They had then attempted trials using subjects on the verge of biological death, but were still unsuccessful in activating the chips basic functionality. They then proceeded trials with hosts that had undergone both brain death and cardiac arrest. This also failed as the biochip would show initial signs of activating before lapsing. The question is why did the chip work on V, but no other test subjects. What was the missing ingredient in V's case that allowed the chip to function? My answer, serendipitous cross corporate synergy.
Let's talk about Sandra Dorsett, because she plays into my theory. When you return Sandra's databank to her you have a variety of options. You can choose to not read the databank at all. You can break its encryption and then lie about it. You can come clean and praise her, or you can come clean about reading it and attempt to blackmail her. Her reactions will span from paying you extra for your compliments, to attempting to gun you down with a home turret. I remember when I initially played through the various scenarios, her reactions seemed to go from 0 to 60 in a split second. Then, I remembered the contents of the databank.
Night corp was testing a AI designated CN-07 on its employees. The databank states how it had successfully bypassed various security systems and engage in a period of subliminal conditioning. It specifically notes how a subject that had been calm and empathetic experiences a psychotic break, strangled a colleague over a coffee dispute (which gets some empathy from me, I have often wanted to strangle coworkers that kill the pot and don't start a new one) and then throws themself out a 16th story window. So, the more I thought about it, the more it made sense that Sandra has already been experiencing the effects of CN-07 and when stressed quickly resorts to extreme violence.
Now, what does this have to do with V? Well, when V rescues Sandra at the beginning of the game, he has to interface directly with her system to get her vital stats. During this interface, he appears to pick up some kind of virus. He has Vic look at it the next day while getting new optics. Vic assures him he flushed it from his systems. But, my suspicion is that he did not, or that by the time he did, CN-07 had already began its process of conditioning V's mind.
RELIC 2.0 failed previously because even when implanted on test subjects that had undergone brain death, the brain itself still required additional conditioning to accept RELIC 2.0's programming. The RELIC would have only worked on V because V was one of the few people that was actually in a per-conditioned state that would prove ultimately receptive to RELIC 2.0's primary function.
Very interesting
 
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