The Story is Deeper Than Originally Thought - SPOILERS

[jj284b]

I don't know if you learned philosoph, or just think anything mention soul is a philosophical point.
I do learned philosoph, and I'm sure that stand here and just ask what is soul or if you still have soul after burned or whether Brandon have soul can't build a philosophical point. It just something youngman would ask himself while watching a starry night, which also the timing everyone think himself as a philosopher.
Did V struggle? Did he ask himself why? Is there any force or scene make him thinking? Epiphany? Make him or maybe you get an answer about an huge question? What standpoint this game support? Did it give you a new or at least special veiw point to watch the world?
Yes you find blue eyes, so what? What can we learn from it? You say you learned from this game so what is it?
There is an NPC maybe a big bad guy? AI want hit human and the world is in danger?
Didn't we know it before we play this game?
It's a discovery, not "learned".
Something you learned must change you inside. That's why the word "philosoph" means "love wisdom".


No, it's not.
This game touch many huge point but avoid on purpose.

If you payed attention to the story around you, you would know that Mr Blue Eyes is head of secret organization which is trying to implant AI into human body (Sandra Dorsett - girl you saved at the start of the game - has this info on datashard she asks you to recover - if you crack it, you can read about what she found).. Organization that is changing the brain of future mayor of Night City Jefferson Peralez and his wife.. Organization which has a shady deals with Maelstrom gang (can be witnessed through Gary the Prophet quest) which is also experimenting with AI on their own (Lilith cyberpsycho).. and whats more, Mr Blue Eyes, is already being controlled by something, due to his blue eyes - eye color usually change when there is a data transfer incoming, but his eyes are permanently glowing which indicates he is mere proxy body and is controlled by somebody/something else....

Deal with V at the end of Star ending, is not told to player, but all these facts imply their deal most likely involves all this - why would V, Night City Legend even do a job for him in the first place??? money have no meaning to V anymore... but there is one thing V would do anything for - survival... and Mr Blue Eyes might be the answer.... V is already an engram inside his brain... If they can transfer AI into another body, they can transfer V into new body as well.... thats most obvious outcome of that mission...

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

In the legend ending where johnny and V sit a the digital diner table, they start a discussion about how it is being an engram.
I was sitting there, nail biting for a Diop conversation about two individuals, talking about something nobody else can talk about. When it got intersting, alt swoops in from the left field and makes her statement.

I have rarely seen such an anticlimactic move in any piece of fiction.

The moment the discussion started to become interesting its ended in the worst possible way.

 

[jj284b]

In the legend ending where johnny and V sit a the digital diner table, they start a discussion about how it is being an engram.
I was sitting there, nail biting for a Diop conversation about two individuals, talking about something nobody else can talk about. When it got intersting, alt swoops in from the left field and makes her statement.

I have rarely seen such an anticlimactic move in any piece of fiction.

The moment the discussion started to become interesting its ended in the worst possible way.

why are you even commenting on it? you got your refund after finishing the game...

 

[Droladya]

If you payed attention to the story around you, you would know that Mr Blue Eyes is head of secret organization which is trying to implant AI into human body (Sandra Dorsett - girl you saved at the start of the game - has this info on datashard she asks you to recover - if you crack it, you can read about what she found).. Organization that is changing the brain of future mayor of Night City Jefferson Peralez and his wife.. Organization which has a shady deals with Maelstrom gang (can be witnessed through Gary the Prophet quest) which is also experimenting with AI on their own (Lilith cyberpsycho).. and whats more, Mr Blue Eyes, is already being controlled by something, due to his blue eyes - eye color usually change when there is a data transfer incoming, but his eyes are permanently glowing which indicates he is mere proxy body and is controlled by somebody/something else....

Deal with V at the end of Star ending, is not told to player, but all these facts imply their deal most likely involves all this - why would V, Night City Legend even do a job for him in the first place??? money have no meaning to V anymore... but there is one thing V would do anything for - survival... and Mr Blue Eyes might be the answer.... V is already an engram inside his brain... If they can transfer AI into another body, they can transfer V into new body as well.... thats most obvious outcome of that mission...

Yeah I know everything you said.
Sandra Dorsett is frame by NightCorp because she touched some secret of mind control.
And Sun is the ending V make deal with Blue Eyes.
So what?
Is anything happened? I told you they always stop one step further.
Only thing you get is "may" "could" "if".
It can't answer any question.
Everything you get is probability.
I guess you will learned that people always believe something they want to believe after this thread.

 

[jj284b]

answer is implied by that ending.. its a mature game, it doesn't have to explain everything... If story says 1+1 it doesnt need to tell you its 2...

 

[hulkman2456]

The endings also can get very philosophical. Is there a soul? Are we still the original V? What is consciousness and does the process change us?

Yeah, and that was all ignored and not cared about in the end. Everyone is treating body transfer as 100% you. But we know Mikoshi can copy you. Because of Saburo doing it before his death. Hanako etc. don't care either way. And still see him as her father. It's a question ask, but not actually important. And they really can't. Because if its confirmed that the chip is just a copy. No one will care about V one bit. You're just a fake and not my character. Same goes for Johnny. V died the moment they plugged in. The Relic would be worthless for immortality. If it just copies you. Eventually the copies will fail. The chip is just a cloning machine.

 

[jj284b]

Yeah, and that was all ignored and not cared about in the end. Everyone is treating body transfer as 100% you. But we know Mikoshi can copy you. Because of Saburo doing it before his death. Hanako etc. don't care either way. And still see him as her father. It's a question ask, but not actually important. And they really can't. Because if its confirmed that the chip is just a copy. No one will care about V one bit. You're just a fake and not my character. Same goes for Johnny. V died the moment they plugged in. The Relic would be worthless for immortality. If it just copies you. Eventually the copies will fail. The chip is just a cloning machine.

I would say V died the moment Dex shoot him/her in the head...

 

[hulkman2456]

I would say V died the moment Dex shoot him/her in the head...

That started the clock. Unless you want to say the brain damage V got.

 

[Droladya]

answer is implied by that ending.. its a mature game, it doesn't have to explain everything... If story says 1+1 it doesnt need to tell you its 2...

No it's necessary, the answer is not about what the story would be.
It's the standpoint. Even it would hit you.
The story can told you that everything is your delusion.
Mr blue eyes just a nickname and the mind control experiment finally proof that you can't totally control humans mind.
And V just want to explode the Crystal Palace to destory the NC, so that everyone would remember him, proof that "whatever NC take from him, he would take it back".
I can give you many different point to understand the ending, all of them have standpoint, that's what the story sent to you after everything end. The sense of worth, world, life and so on.

 

[Goodmongo]

I don't know if you learned philosoph, or just think anything mention soul is a philosophical point.
I do learned philosoph, and I'm sure that stand here and just ask what is soul or if you still have soul after burned or whether Brandon have soul can't build a philosophical point. It just something youngman would ask himself while watching a starry night, which also the timing everyone think himself as a philosopher.
Did V struggle? Did he ask himself why? Is there any force or scene make him thinking? Epiphany? Make him or maybe you get an answer about an huge question? What standpoint this game support? Did it give you a new or at least special veiw point to watch the world?
Yes you find blue eyes, so what? What can we learn from it? You say you learned from this game so what is it?
There is an NPC maybe a big bad guy? AI want hit human and the world is in danger?
Didn't we know it before we play this game?
It's a discovery, not "learned".
Something you learned must change you inside. That's why the word "philosoph" means "love wisdom".

Here is the definition of the word philosophy:

"The study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence"

The game gets into reality and existence. If you didn't want to investigate that then it's your problem. The questions of what is reality and what constitutes existence is plastered all over the game. I'm sorry if you just can't see this.

BTW YOU are V. The game gives you the player morsels to ponder if you so desire.

I really doubt you took more than maybe a basic philosophy course. Because if you did then you should have learned one thing. It's up to each of use to learn and question. The game isn't supposed to dictate to us some answer like your want. "What have you learned?"

Instead the game motivates you to think about the issues. After all there is no proven correct answer to reality or existence.

 

[gregski]

Instead the game motivates you to think about the issues. After all there is no proven correct answer to reality or existence.

This. The game asked so many questions, leaving answers to players themselves. That's how it should be done, at least in my book.

 

[Goodmongo]

Soulkiller, Alt and the Black Wall are barely touched as topics, with the 2 major players up and about (VDBs and Netwatch) having 1 brief appearence in the entire game. And yeah, while Johnny's taking the lead role in this saga of ours, the main theme has to be deeply tied to the what lurks behind the dataforts.

If this was a single game with no DLC's, expansions or follow up games planed I would agree with you. But it was never intended to be a one and done.

Do you know everything from the first Game of Thrones book? Did the follow up book about Harry potter fill in things just briefly touched on in the first book?

I can site many books, movies etc. where the first installment introduces concepts, people and other things that are filled in in a sequal or later episode.

 

[CS554]

Instead the game motivates you to think about the issues. After all there is no proven correct answer to reality or existence.

That's what was that rocked my world in cyberpunk literature back in the day. When you figure that spaceships won't solve our problems, we need to figure out things in this day and this reality first. I didn't went to read philosophy but non fiction authors like Christopher Lasch and even today, I think Putnam are worth awhile.

Kinda secret wish, however naive that maybe, but perhaps there are players out there who go to look for real stuff after playing this game.

 

[mr.Boolean]

This. The game asked so many questions, leaving answers to players themselves. That's how it should be done, at least in my book.

Thats how it should be done in all good-taste sci-fi story - make some space for brain work. Sadly some people expecting that developers must explain them everything brick after brick or call it "lazy writing".

 

[Buckadoz]

This. The game asked so many questions, leaving answers to players themselves. That's how it should be done, at least in my book.

I agree with this to an extent. The side quests do this well. The problem is, in the main storyline of an RPG, you should be able to meaningfully engage with these questions. After the first meeting with Alt, my thought was "oh shit this whole Soulkiller thing sounds worse than just dying", and the wheels just fell off the story for me when my only option was to say "Cool we have a plan now "

At least it was immediately followed by being able to wipe out the Voodoo boys. One of the most ridiculous and unbelievable moments in the game, but also the only moment of catharsis in the entire game.

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

Thats how it should be done in all good-taste sci-fi story - make some space for brain work. Sadly some people expecting that developers must explain them everything brick after brick or call it "lazy writing".

Spoonfeeding is a big problem in lots of stories but the other way around is not really better.

If you only superficially touch subjects and don't question the reader (in this case players) conclusion with different viewpoints from yoir story, the answer is hollow.

You need multiple angles to form an informed answer.
A good example would be the nature of cyberspace in this story. It's simply shown as a hellish place. The digital afterlife in hell. This point of view is never questioned and the player has no chance to look at it with the own... Cortex.

 

[Barsenthor]

This. The game asked so many questions, leaving answers to players themselves. That's how it should be done, at least in my book.

I dont know if the game ask any questions. Questions were asked in the Witcher 3 - like is you loved one is more importent that peoples of continent, should you stick to your code (here none interfering in the Reason of State), are mages bad, does Blood Baron deserves a second chance, can Ghost in the tree be trusted?

I wont be lying - game has several great themes to play with (NightCityCorp, Blue Eye people, 5th corpo War, Yoriunobu quest to take Araska down from inside), yet the story so far was burning through all of them.
There is still a lot of potencial, but after what i've saw in TW2, 3 plus DLCs - it was rather a let down. Not bad story, but here it's being counted as a con.

 

[bign]

The game gets into reality and existence. If you didn't want to investigate that then it's your problem. The questions of what is reality and what constitutes existence is plastered all over the game. I'm sorry if you just can't see this.

Yeah we already did this with the Matrix, Inception, Total Recall, Blade Runner, Soma and done with a better story. The story in this game is the ballad of Johnny Silverhand, which is SET in a universe that has the potential to investigate the themes of reality and existence. But there is nothing special about these themes, because they are commonly explored in the cyberpunk genre.

Post automatically merged: Jan 18, 2021

This. The game asked so many questions, leaving answers to players themselves. That's how it should be done, at least in my book.

What questions did you find the game asked?

 

[Aasimar-X]

I dont know if the game ask any questions

What did you do with Delamain?
What did you do in the Sinnerman Quest?
What fate did you decide for V?
What did you decide after the 4 races with Rachel?
How did you handle the Monk quest, and did you talk to both later in the game?
Did you betray Panam?

The game dose ask questions.. a lot

 

[bign]

What did you do with Delamain?
What did you do in the Sinnerman Quest?
What fate did you decide for V?
What did you decide after the 4 races with Rachel?
How did you handle the Monk quest, and did you talk to both later in the game?
Did you betray Panam?

The game dose ask questions.. a lot

The game is asking you to make a decision, and you are now asking what decision that person made. This has nothing to do with a good story that makes you question your system of beliefs.