The thing with with Drummond Berserker...

[Sensimilius]

Okay.. so this is basically an 8 point card (2 dmg (and these 2 dmg can actually often mean much more then if it was just 2 points more to it's body!) + 6 point Bear Abomination transformation) for 5 provision points, that is unless it's removed immediately with EXACTLY 4 dmg (or more). This in itself is pretty good, BUT wait, THERE'S MORE!
It also allows for disruption of your opponents damage distribution. How? Well pretty simple, because it transforms at 3 power. Thus... if you deal 1 dmg to it (he will be at 4 power after the turn he was played in) you get exactly that, you get to deny 1 point to the opponent, BUT if you do 2 dmg, you are dropping 1 point of dmg into the Twisting Nether/Void (meaning it has no benefit lol), and if you do 3 dmg you are now losing those 2 points of dmg since the guy will just transform into a "healthy" Bear Abomination. Same if you apply bleeding or even poison, it will just be lost when he transforms on the next turn. Thus you get much more out of him then just 2 dmg and 6 power body.
Now since SK warrior meta is already bloody disgusting and too strong, I suggest a simple way to nerf this guy (who btw can be found in basically ANY SK deck since he's just such a great and simple card!)!
My idea: Any damage done in excess to the 3 points that make him transform will then continue to be dealt to the Bear Abomination, also any statuses he had as a human he will retain (just reapply the same effect as it was in the moment of transformation) when he becomes a bear!
See, now he's not a damn black hole for Bleeding and Poison effects.

 

[Payus]

Okay.. so this is basically an 8 point card (2 dmg (and these 2 dmg can actually often mean much more then if it was just 2 points more to it's body!) + 6 point Bear Abomination transformation) for 5 provision points, that is unless it's removed immediately with EXACTLY 4 dmg (or more). This in itself is pretty good, BUT wait, THERE'S MORE!
It also allows for disruption of your opponents damage distribution. How? Well pretty simple, because it transforms at 3 power. Thus... if you deal 1 dmg to it (he will be at 4 power after the turn he was played in) you get exactly that, you get to deny 1 point to the opponent, BUT if you do 2 dmg, you are dropping 1 point of dmg into the Twisting Nether/Void (meaning it has no benefit lol), and if you do 3 dmg you are now losing those 2 points of dmg since the guy will just transform into a "healthy" Bear Abomination. Same if you apply bleeding or even poison, it will just be lost when he transforms on the next turn. Thus you get much more out of him then just 2 dmg and 6 power body.
Now since SK warrior meta is already bloody disgusting and too strong, I suggest a simple way to nerf this guy (who btw can be found in basically ANY SK deck since he's just such a great and simple card!)!
My idea: Any damage done in excess to the 3 points that make him transform will then continue to be dealt to the Bear Abomination, also any statuses he had as a human he will retain (just reapply the same effect as it was in the moment of transformation) when he becomes a bear!
See, now he's not a damn black hole for Bleeding and Poison effects.

Ok then you would need to apply that to all consume and transform. To be fair. Because monsters can consume poisoned units or bleeding units, Ng can easily purify them so then what, pass the poison/bleeding to the purifier? Transform means transform, we would need another change other than what you mentioned.

 

[DRK3]

I agree the card is OP, most players ive seen on forums also agree with that, since the card has been released, and they also spent time trying to come up with changes and nerfs.

Will he be nerfed? No. In matter of fact, you can already see a few new bronzes of the new expansion that are on the same level, which completely outclass 90% of existing 5pr bronzes. So, the best you can expect is for that value to be the new norm i guess...

 

[replayNinja]

Ok then you would need to apply that to all consume and transform. To be fair. Because monsters can consume poisoned units or bleeding units, Ng can easily purify them so then what, pass the poison/bleeding to the purifier? Transform means transform, we would need another change other than what you mentioned.

that's far from the same. MO requires another card to consume. This card's abilities does not require any further interaction from the player. That's a HUGE difference

 

[quintivarium]

The nerf to Drummond Berserker is one of the few changes to cards that really upset me. I agree that the card was badly op, but the change destroyed it’s uniqueness. One more round before transforming made a world of difference in the card’s strategy and interplay with other cards. I would love to see the card return to its original strength, but for six provisions. Even better, make it retain strength 5, but have berserk 2 for six provisions — a potential 9 for 6, but with interesting timing considerations as well as self damage for protection possibilities.

 

[Slizzl]

The nerf to Drummond Berserker is one of the few changes to cards that really upset me. I agree that the card was badly op, but the change destroyed it’s uniqueness. One more round before transforming made a world of difference in the card’s strategy and interplay with other cards. I would love to see the card return to its original strength, but for six provisions. Even better, make it retain strength 5, but have berserk 2 for six provisions — a potential 9 for 6, but with interesting timing considerations as well as self damage for protection possibilities.

I agree. It's infuriating how the devs don't utilize the provision system for these nerfs when it would be perfectly reasonable to do so. The nerf doesn't even work well since it's arguably a buff. Sure, it loses out on 1 potential point, but now it has more tempo and it can't be disrupted at 3 points. The best counter to Berserkers was Amnesty which no longer works.
Less ways to deal with very strong cards is never a good thing.

 

[Payus]

I don't really like the card either. But I think the devs idea was a short time lived engine which had a low ceiling but reached that ceiling quick if not interrupted by a lock or removal. He also can't be easily ressurected since once he transforms he's gone from the Gy. Think about Harold, freya's... it is not ideal that he banishes(maybe in Lippy decks at most)

 

[Markus_Wirth]

It´s a decent 8 for 5, do not see any problem with him. The whole fun of transform and getting consumed is that the unit also loses the bad statuses. So I would not go for your nerv.

Actually, SK has also other strong 5 provision cards:
An Craite Longship: 4 body + 1 dmg each round if opponent plays unit + bloodthirst perparation
An Craite Raiders: 6 body in round 3 + 2 not random damage (also 8 for 5)
An Craite Warrior: 4 body + 1 engine if bloodthirst 1
Brokvar Archer: 4 body + damage = bloodthirst can be a bronze unit remover if bloodthirst high
Crow Clan Preacher: extremly strong engine card combined with alchemy and Gedyneith
Dimun Light Longship: Combined with Heymaey Protector it can be a 14 for 9 in case of survival

Nevertheless, latest meta report showed that Patricidal Fury is the strongest fraction in Pro Rank and, hence, loudest screams for a nerv.

Actually, it might be a reasonable approach to alter Arnjolf the Patricide a bit.
My suggestion: body 10 Spawn 2 Deafening Sirens on the opposite row and damage them by 1
Reasons: Playing Arnjolf basically opens the door for all Bloodthirst 3 abilities which are really powerful as a second play (e.g. Svaringe Tuirseach +5, Champions Charge: Removal, An Craite Raider: Zeal, Discraced Brawler locked). Then an additional bloodthirst for the strong ability must come elsewhere than from the leader.

 

[rrc]

...a short time lived engine which had a low ceiling...

From when did 8 for 5 become low ceiling? Seriously? The extent to which SK fans go to defend huge imbalanced plays that which is only norm in SK (which is keeping SK as the most oppressive faction - top 4 out of 10 is from SK which is bloody unacceptable) is baffling. What I wouldn't do to get such a card for ST (or NG players would do for NG, etc.)?

8 for 5 is super high imbalanced ceiling (which may become norm after this new expansion, and, of course, at that point 9 for 5 will become norm for SK)

 

[Payus]

From when did 8 for 5 become low ceiling? Seriously? The extent to which SK fans go to defend huge imbalanced plays that which is only norm in SK (which is keeping SK as the most oppressive faction - top 4 out of 10 is from SK which is bloody unacceptable) is baffling. What I wouldn't do to get such a card for ST (or NG players would do for NG, etc.)?

8 for 5 is super high imbalanced ceiling (which may become norm after this new expansion, and, of course, at that point 9 for 5 will become norm for SK)

I said I dont like the card, I don't use it in my decks, and i said that i thought that was the Devs idea. I'm not defending that card.

I do love Sk though

 

[Markus_Wirth]

From when did 8 for 5 become low ceiling? Seriously? The extent to which SK fans go to defend huge imbalanced plays that which is only norm in SK (which is keeping SK as the most oppressive faction - top 4 out of 10 is from SK which is bloody unacceptable) is baffling. What I wouldn't do to get such a card for ST (or NG players would do for NG, etc.)?

8 for 5 is super high imbalanced ceiling (which may become norm after this new expansion, and, of course, at that point 9 for 5 will become norm for SK)

Well, all fractions do have strong 5 provision units.
All fractions: Those summoners (e.g. Mahakam volunteers) are 8 for 5 + deck thinning
SY: Halfling Safecracker: Can easily be a 8 for 5 + Intimidate if you go for a Crime deck
SC: Dwarf berserker with Mahakam Forge leader is a comparable 8 for 5 with more damage potential
NR: Cintrian Royal guard swarm can easily be a 8+
NG: Venedal Elite (in Tactic deck), Thirsty Dames, Seditious Aristocrates
MO: Bridge Troll is a 8 for 5 + dominance support, Endrega Larvaes can easily be a 12 for 5 if they survive

In order to get a balanced game, one has to identify the strongest and weakest leader ability and boost/nerv accordingly.
This is what I suggested for Patrimonial Fury.

What you also should not forget is that body 6 + 2 random damage is not necessarily a 8 for 5, since the damage can also go to shields/armour.

What I really would not appreciate, is changing the transform keyword with all the connected up and downsides. One common downside of transform is that Eithne (or eventually other hand/deck evolving card) gets handboosted and next round transforms into a unit with the same body.
The basic upside is that you can get rid of unwanted statuses/damage when you transform, but you often also loose the abilities of the card.
One common approach with Drummond berserker is boosting him and making his damage boost Heymaey Protector.

If you really want to nerv this card again I would suggest the following:
- reduce body and beserker value by 1 to make removal more likely.

 

[rrc]

Well, all fractions do have strong 5 provision units.
All fractions: Those summoners (e.g. Mahakam volunteers) are 8 for 5 + deck thinning
SY: Halfling Safecracker: Can easily be a 8 for 5 + Intimidate if you go for a Crime deck
SC: Dwarf berserker with Mahakam Forge leader is a comparable 8 for 5 with more damage potential
NR: Cintrian Royal guard swarm can easily be a 8+
NG: Venedal Elite (in Tactic deck), Thirsty Dames, Seditious Aristocrates
MO: Bridge Troll is a 8 for 5 + dominance support, Endrega Larvaes can easily be a 12 for 5 if they survive

In order to get a balanced game, one has to identify the strongest and weakest leader ability and boost/nerv accordingly.
This is what I suggested for Patrimonial Fury.

What you also should not forget is that body 6 + 2 random damage is not necessarily a 8 for 5, since the damage can also go to shields/armour.

What I really would not appreciate, is changing the transform keyword with all the connected up and downsides. One common downside of transform is that Eithne (or eventually other hand/deck evolving card) gets handboosted and next round transforms into a unit with the same body.
The basic upside is that you can get rid of unwanted statuses/damage when you transform, but you often also loose the abilities of the card.
One common approach with Drummond berserker is boosting him and making his damage boost Heymaey Protector.

If you really want to nerv this card again I would suggest the following:
- reduce body and beserker value by 1 to make removal more likely.

SY: It has a huge deck building requirement and the luck of draw (meaning drawing more Crimes). It is a very very good card, but fits only one specific type of a deck. Susceptible for tall punish and resets.
ST: Dwarf Berserker is a 7 for 5 in 4 turns. The +1 is the credit of MF and not Berserker himself. And 4 turns. You can't just slam this card and pass the next turn for 8 points. In which case, he would have played for 5 points. No way comparable to SK card.
NR: Seriously? Royal Guards are for meme decks and needs deck building support and starts out with 5 for 5. No way comparable to this card.
NG: Again, deck building and draw requirement. Puts you in an awkward position when you have to use a tactics but have this hand. Can only work in a deck built for this card.
MO: Bridge Troll is one of the worst cards in the game and you are comparing it with this card? It is funny. You can't play Bridge Troll and pass. You will have got 4 points on board. Unlike this berserker who plays for 8 without any conditions.

Larva is an engine and is the strongest and most broken 5P card in the game which should have been made 6P an year back. But still you can't play Larva and pass to get 8 points. This is kind of 8 for 5 on deploy (with potential bloodthirst synergy). It is this kind of OP cards which is keeping SK in the depressing oppressive state (4 out of top 10 being SK).

 

[Markus_Wirth]

SY: It has a huge deck building requirement and the luck of draw (meaning drawing more Crimes). It is a very very good card, but fits only one specific type of a deck. Susceptible for tall punish and resets.
ST: Dwarf Berserker is a 7 for 5 in 4 turns. The +1 is the credit of MF and not Berserker himself. And 4 turns. You can't just slam this card and pass the next turn for 8 points. In which case, he would have played for 5 points. No way comparable to SK card.
NR: Seriously? Royal Guards are for meme decks and needs deck building support and starts out with 5 for 5. No way comparable to this card.
NG: Again, deck building and draw requirement. Puts you in an awkward position when you have to use a tactics but have this hand. Can only work in a deck built for this card.
MO: Bridge Troll is one of the worst cards in the game and you are comparing it with this card? It is funny. You can't play Bridge Troll and pass. You will have got 4 points on board. Unlike this berserker who plays for 8 without any conditions.

Larva is an engine and is the strongest and most broken 5P card in the game which should have been made 6P an year back. But still you can't play Larva and pass to get 8 points. This is kind of 8 for 5 on deploy (with potential bloodthirst synergy). It is this kind of OP cards which is keeping SK in the depressing oppressive state (4 out of top 10 being SK).

Ok, the big criticism of Drummoned Berserker is the following situation.

Correct my if I am wrong:
It´s first round and I decided at some point that it´s time to pass. Then I play Dummond berserker and get one random damage. At next point I pass and get one more random and 6 value. Maybe your opponent needs an additional card to counter that. But to mind not really likely as there is often a huge point difference when you decide to pass. Is that so strong?

What I usually do when I decide to pass is playing cards which bring benefits in the next round. Handboosting, Thinning, preparing my graveyard, attacking my opponent´s graveyard, playing specials for Harald Gord, and so on. At SK preparing your graveyard is probably the best efficient strategy dependent on your chosen leader/other cards.

Furthermore, if your really want to benefit from Drummond Berserker you should take deck building and draw requirement deeply into consideration.
- Heymaey Protector to benefit from the self damage
- Harald to benefit from the warrior deck in round 3
- Boosters to make the engine Heymaey Protector + Drummond Berserker work
- Usually you also add Dimun Light Longship to have alternative use for Heymaey Protector
- And maybe the Mystic Echo as a tutor?

To sum it up, it´s a decent 5 provision card with clear ceiling and it can not even be resurrected after its transformation by Harald.

If you want to nerv decrease body and berserker to make it more easily removed. Actually, I also really appreciated the first Drummond berserker as it was even a 9 for 5 and didn´t have the high passing value, but this was maybe too strong for a 5 provisions bronze.

What I also could live with would be transform and damage random own unit by 1.

 

[Sensimilius]

Bruh, I don't think I can take you seriously after reading you compare the damn BRIDGE TROLL and Dwarven Berserker to the OPness of the Drummond Berserker (do I really need to go into details as to why? Tis not obvious? I will if you want me to).
Well okay (sigh), basically the thing is that within 2 turns, the DwBers will play for 5 points, while the DrumBers will play for 8! Also you mention the random damage POTENTIALLY going into armor and thus you don't get benefits from it, WELL if that's such a detriment please notice how the Dwarf has 5 points of those random "potentially useless" damage while the Drummonderino has only 2. Also random damage pings really don't synergize much with the dwarf deck playstyle while damage in fact DOES synergize into SK play style much more. ALSO THE WHOLE POINT ABOUT DRUMMB BEING BASICALLY IMMUNE TO POISON AND having a resistence to bleeding aaaand the whole point I was making in the first damn post about doing more then 1 dmg to him being basically throwing damage away into nothing. While doing any dmg to DwrafB is not wasted, also you can poison or bleed him.
As for the Bridge Troll, won't waste my keyboard on it.

 

[bTrait]

Well, all fractions do have strong 5 provision units.
All fractions: Those summoners (e.g. Mahakam volunteers) are 8 for 5 + deck thinning
[...]

It is 2x4 for 2x5 + deck thinning = 8 for 10 + deck thinning.
The rest of your examples are conditional - in other words you need to play another card to get "8 for 5".

 

[Markus_Wirth]

My whole point is that I do not consider Drummond berserker to be as strong as you think and the reason for that SK Patrimonial Fury is dominating season of the cat in Pro rank. It´s a decent card but not overall OP.

It´s a bronze card with ceiling of 8 and synergies with Heymaey Protector and warrior tag. My opinion is that the reason of Patrimonal Fury dominance is the easy Bloodthirst 3 achievement for which I suggested a nerv.

Furthermore, I am also open for nerfs of Drummond berserker. But I simply do not like the idea of changing transform. The whole idea of transform (and also consume partly) is that you get rid of unwanted statuses and damage as already mentioned above.

Your point is basically that unconditional 8 for 5 plus quasi-poison/bleeding immunity in the first round is too strong. For that I suggested following nervs:
- Reduce body and Berserker by one to increase removal risk
- After transformation give random unit 1 damage. This will make it to a 7 for 5, but can be supporting if the target is benefit from self-damage. This would by the way perfectly into SK nature.

 

[Sensimilius]

Nevertheless, latest meta report showed that Patricidal Fury is the strongest fraction in Pro Rank and, hence, loudest screams for a nerv.

Actually, it might be a reasonable approach to alter Arnjolf the Patricide a bit.
My suggestion: body 10 Spawn 2 Deafening Sirens on the opposite row and damage them by 1
Reasons: Playing Arnjolf basically opens the door for all Bloodthirst 3 abilities which are really powerful as a second play (e.g. Svaringe Tuirseach +5, Champions Charge: Removal, An Craite Raider: Zeal, Discraced Brawler locked). Then an additional bloodthirst for the strong ability must come elsewhere than from the leader.

That would help, yes.
The whole requirements for Champion's Charge is pretty laughable for SK anyway.. rly, 3 damaged units and now u can pick one unit to destroy. :] Not only is that so easy (compared to for example MO's equivalent of having to have damn Imlreth on your side of the board) but also you get all of that for free just by clicking Arnjolf (unless the random dmg ping from Harald (if he's on the board) hits one of the sirens but still)! :[