The Triss content and the inconsistency of our romance's choice

[Eruvadhor]

Over 200 pages, 2000 posts and 70k views in 10 days ... that's something, yeah. Once we've reached 400 votes for Triss we should tweet this thread to one of the devs, don't you think?

The summation, clarification, and highlighting of the best points is already under way. When we're done, we'll send it to them in an easy to understand and search format.

Thanks everyone for contributing...this must be one of the most remarkably on-topic threads I've ever seen, considering how long it is, how many people are participating, and how quickly it's risen.

 

[Sooxzay]

Entered the ship used to travel to skellige for finding the sunstone.. Triss staying next to Ciri: "Well?"
Same after getting the information about the cave where you can find the sunstone. Please gimme some possibilties to talk :S

 

[Tyrvar]

Entered the ship used to travel to skellige for finding the sunstone.. Triss staying next to Ciri: "Well?"
Same after getting the information about the cave where you can find the sunstone. Please gimme some possibilties to talk :S

All I'm going to say is "Good luck"

...

God, I'm cruel.

 

[Cormyr]

The summation, clarification, and highlighting of the best points is already under way. When we're done, we'll send it to them in an easy to understand and search format.

Well, that's even better. Thank you very much for all your hard work.

This community is just amazing.

 

[allen3]

The problem with the Triss romance was once it was initiated it seemed like it ended. You only get one more important scene with her talking about the future and all the other scenes she was involved (what little she had) it was handled like you were just friends, just as if you were talking to Dandelion or Zoltan. I really enjoyed what we got, but it would have been nice to actually have more dialog with her.

Can't speak to her at Kaer Morhen through romance because she only appears when Yen asks her to show. Can't speak to her on the Boat. Can't speak to her in the Tent before the final battle either. Just small dialog, usually forced. The Wild Hunt was the most powerful foes Geralt faced, you would think something more than 'Good Luck' was warranted.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the game. Best RPG I have ever played. Would gladly pay for just a little more dialog that's all.

 

[Redemyr]

This is a continuation of this topic...

here

It is my attempt to suggest interesting interactions and flesh out Triss character's more.

Instead going who knows where after Novigrad, Triss spends her time in Velen investigating the Crones and their connection to the wild hunt.

Once you finish with the Skellige islands and you’re supposed to pick up Uma on your way to KM, you get an option to pick her up to find out if she’s got any news.
You previously set up the Inn at the Crossroads as a sort of drop off point for messages and you find a letter in which she tells you she’s found something and meet her in some abandoned building/house that litter Velen’s countryside.

Upon arriving you hear woman screams and you rush to the door. Kicking it open Geralt finds himself with the following scene. There’s an unknown man is passed out and tied to a wall. Next to him is another woman and Triss is bent down on top of her, clearly torturing her. Perhaps even removing fingernails too or something fire related to her nipples like we saw in W2.

G: “What the fuck are you doing, Triss?”
T: “Geralt!”
Woman, confused, clearly in pain: “Geralt?”
T: “Shut up bitch” slapping her.
Geralt gets closer, and takes a good look at the woman, realizing it is Tamara, the baron’s daughter.
G: “Triss, wait, they are-“
T: “Fucking witch hunters, I saved their life and then tried to kill me.” Turning to the woman. “This is not Novigrad, and no matter what fantasies they might have fed you there, we are not defenseless.” Turning to Geralt again, “Geralt, they have information about the Crones and Ciri, and I’m fucking getting it.”
G: “What?”
T: “They mentioned a battle, said you were involved too, wouldn’t say further than that.” Menacing glare at the woman. “For now.”
G: “Triss, this is not you, torturing them won’t help.”
T: “So I can get tortured to get information and this worthless trash can’t, that’s some fucked up logic. Thank you.”
G: “You went there willingly, these obviously are not. And besides, they know nothing, I was there in that battle and we fought the crone’s minions together. And this one here, she is the daughter of the man who helped Ciri when she needed.”
Triss pauses at that, her rage a little subsided, yet still makes her case: “That might be, but they clearly are hiding something, found them snooping in the swamp. We need to find out.”
Geralt turns to Tarara, “is that true?”.
Toamara spits blood at him and says “I knew you were rotten to the core... working with this Witch... no wonder my father hired you.”
Geralt ignores her remark and asks again.

Anyway, the scene goes on, I don’t want to fill it anymore with my crappy dialogues. The idea is there. Perhaps there could be an option where Geralt decides to join in when pressing for more information, or decides to continue admonishing Triss and the interrogation ends.

He eventually calms Triss down. She explains that they Crones were very secretive and she wasn’t able to learn much, the peasants wouldn’t talk much. Then one day, she saw those two getting attacked and intervened, only for them to turn on her when she used magic.

Perhaps they did it because they could were confused or because their hatred for mages goes beyond that idk.

Triss of course manages to subdue them and interrogating them, they reveal little, but Geralt description slips out and so Triss believes they know more.

That need to find out more, coupled with all the abuse she felt in Novigrad, what she was the, the burnings, etc. plus them attacking her after she saved them, made her snap and resort to unnecessary torture.

She makes another remark, saying that they would have done the same to her (probably true), that she saw the bodies hanged in the village.

Finally she breaks down and admits it is all pretty fucked up, the prisoners get released, and Geralt and Triss go have a walk and a talk, but that belongs in the next scene, which I’ll post later.

What do you guys think? First this is a direct consequence of letting her be tortured in Novigrad, I always felt like the “perfect solution” in which she endures till the end was too nicely wrapped up, with her killing everybody in the end. This shows how it really got to her, on top of everything she had to see, the burnings, etc. Perhaps this case of Triss can also be tied up with whether you save her or not in W2.

If the torture in her quest that doesn’t happen, she captures them and still interrogates them, but is still on the non violent side of things or is just hitting the man in the face or something mild like that.

I certainly don’t condone her actions, but can understand them to a point.

Incidentally, these two (Tamara and his boss) are perhaps the only witch hunters in the whole game which seemed decent or at least we had a connection to , so it felt like a wasted opportunity not to show the conflict.

 

[ltdk92]

Well Yennefer does have more of a dynamic with Ciri. Yennefer is looking for Ciri as much as Geralt is. She truly is involved when it comes to finding Ciri. Triss is as well to a small extent, but she is pretty much only there as a helping hand... and as a helping hand who is mostly preoccupied with other things. I mean the scene before and after Ciri arrives at Kaer Morhen shows this the best. Yennefer is pacing back and forth waiting for Geralt and Ciri. Once they arrive her reaction to seeing Ciri is pretty much what you might expect from an very protective and happy mother who has seen her child for the first time in years. Also there's Avallach's lab, and there's the scene where Ciri goes to meet with the lodge.

Agreed. I do take those moments as wonderful development for Yen in particular and even the Yen/Geralt pairing, but what about CIri? We get a spiteful comment from her that she thinks that Yen is manipulative when discussing the Lodge with Geralt. I think the devs did an excellent job in providing development for the characters independently through harrowing and emotionally involved moments in the game. I take the moment Ciri says Skijal must have a proper burial as an example. Those occurrences you have mentioned work wonderfully for Yen--no debate there for sure. However, some statements made by NPCs are inconsistent to what is displayed in-game in terms of actions or even character statements. Yen and Triss remain friends and strong ones by Yen's admission, but where is this at all displayed? Where is the supposed familial relationship between Ciri and Triss? Triss might as well be a stranger. I must say, Ciri was given some great developmental moments and you pointed out one in Avallac'h's lab. The only thing I feel the players are meant to take as a given is that the main cast care and are deeply invested in one another, and that does happen with the Geralt/Yen/Ciri triumvrant. However, Triss comes across like an outcast and not really a close friend and "family" member. Again, I don't think this is a game breaking issue--by no means in any way. It just appears that the devs wanted to incorporate Triss as a more central character than they initially wanted with the inclusion of one-liners that become almost meaningless come games end.

Also, I would like to thank you for your input, even if we diverge on the topic of this thread. I definitely see where you are coming from and agree to some extent.

 

[Eruvadhor]

Well, that's even better. Thank you very much for all your hard work.

This community is just amazing.

And to you too. The truth is my work is extremely minor; it's the contributors here, and those who started/organized this effort that have done the bulk of the work.

 

[ltdk92]

I want to give a special shoutout to @ltdk92 your posts have been some of the most thoughtfully crafted and well-constructed on this thread. @shaedhen I think you should look at some of his stuff and consider adding it to the front page.

Thank you! :blushing: And to think it is my first time posting on forums ever lol

---------- Updated at 09:41 PM ----------

The summation, clarification, and highlighting of the best points is already under way. When we're done, we'll send it to them in an easy to understand and search format.

Thanks everyone for contributing...this must be one of the most remarkably on-topic threads I've ever seen, considering how long it is, how many people are participating, and how quickly it's risen.

Agreed, I was going to suggest this myself! It would definitely help with the length of this thread lol. I have to say it has been a pleasure in participating in a fan community such as this one, because I have followed other forums where tangents are plenty and civil engagement is sorely lacking

 

[xE1NSTE1Nx2049]

@Redemyr

This seems a rather hefty chunk of content to be added. Even this scene would be a lot more time in dialogue sessions and mocap sessions. I certainly wouldn't object to Triss having a second arc after her story in Novigrad, she could get some nice development and screen time. Seems to be the less important issue though. I still believe a small quest here and a dialogue or two there would be a better fix in addressing the staggeringly inconsistent portrayal of the romance. Changing what is already there is hard but adding on top of it and adding it in a way that is meaningful and helps to validate your choice would be the main concern. For me personally.

Like I said, if they wanted to give her some more screen time, I wouldn't object but I don't think this would fix a lot of the problems addressed in this thread. You said this is an alternative to explain why she isn't in Kaer Morhen when you arrive. I agree that this issue could use some explanation and a fix in general, but making it it's own separate quest seems a bit much. I feel a more reasonable fix would be to just have her tell you where she is going to go (Velen, Skellige, somewhere else in the northern part of the map around Novigrad) and you could go there and check in with her. Sometimes the simpler solution is the better one. Like I said though, it is not up to us to decide what is feasible or faithful to the game so any and all suggestions are welcome here. Feel free to post the next section and I will comment on that one too.

As for the content within, I like that you tried to add complexity and reasoning to the fact that she would be torturing these people but I don't think, even if she had good reason to, she would do it. Sure the torture scene in Novigrad was unpleasant but it is not the first time she's gone through something like that. As someone who had been tortured, she would likely be turned off to the whole scene. It's not an effective way to get information from someone, it's cruel. Plain and simple. I think she is also fairly level-headed and wouldn't just snap like you have her doing here. She certainly wouldn't need Geralt to bust in and calm her down either. Even if she had a momentary lapse in judgement it would be just that, momentary. I think she would quickly realize that hurting these people gets her nowhere.

I appreciate you putting the time in and exploring some other possibilities. A possible quest set up that I think would be more in keeping with the tone, while also adding something to the romance, would be like my Rose of Remembrance quest setup. Post 1415 (page 141) if you missed it the first time around.

---------- Updated at 09:55 PM ----------

Thank you! And to think it is my first time posting on forums ever lol

No thank you. Seriously if you check where I quoted you I almost had nothing to add. I just bolded parts and said why I liked it. They are very well thought out and constructive overall.

Agreed, I was going to suggest this myself! It would definitely help with the length of this thread lol. I have to say it has been a pleasure in participating in a fan community such as this one, because I have followed other forums where tangents are plenty and civil engagement is sorely lacking

This is indeed a good thread. Frankly, I am surprised at how on topic and civil it stays, despite all odds. It's nice to feel like you are doing something that could potentially make a difference.

 

[zbum]

Hi everyone !

This is my first post on this forum and first of all, I want to tell you congratulations for this amazing thread and sorry for my poor english (I'm french) !
It's very nice to read constructive debates about this issue.
So you have my whole support !

There is just one thing I disagree or, at least, I didn't interpreted the way you did. It's about the famous kiss of Yen at Kaer Morhen.
It didn't shock me. It happens at a very specific time : when Ciri is brought back to Kaer Morhen, brought back to Yen, who is kind of her mother.
So my way to see things is :
- Yen kisses Geralt because she so happy to see that he brought back Ciri (and don't forget she's still in love with him).
- About Triss reaction, I kinda liked it. Triss knows it's not the time for this kind of explanation. Ciri is back. Triss knows as well that Yen was the former lover of Geralt (and in a way, she stole Geralt from her and she knows it). She knows as well that Yen is the mother of Ciri. And Yen was her friend. I think she understands Yen's reaction, even if she's not happy with it. And that's why she decides to keep low profile and not to make a scene.
Anyway, that's the way I understand it.

But apart from that specific point, I agree with you about everything else.

 

[wright1978]

The problem with the Triss romance was once it was initiated it seemed like it ended. You only get one more important scene with her talking about the future and all the other scenes she was involved (what little she had) it was handled like you were just friends, just as if you were talking to Dandelion or Zoltan. I really enjoyed what we got, but it would have been nice to actually have more dialog with her.

Can't speak to her at Kaer Morhen through romance because she only appears when Yen asks her to show. Can't speak to her on the Boat. Can't speak to her in the Tent before the final battle either. Just small dialog, usually forced. The Wild Hunt was the most powerful foes Geralt faced, you would think something more than 'Good Luck' was warranted.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the game. Best RPG I have ever played. Would gladly pay for just a little more dialog that's all.

If the others had been present i don't think i well delivered 'good luck' would be as galling. Given the awful massive hole at Kaer Morhen and large silence in final act the player is in need of something far more substantial. Yes i'd happily pay for additional dialogue that would add reactivity/interactivity and not just for Triss, even if she is the ones i feel is in most need of additional content.

 

[Sooxzay]

WOOOW..

Doing the quest with Phillipa right now. After entering the cave she told me something VERY interesting:

P: I noticed the problems betweent You, Triss and Yennefer.I guess it is hard for Ciri. Someimes I ask myself if you know what all of you are doing. Triss is playing Ciris sister but waits greedy for a chance to sleep with you again while Yen and you are playing parents for Ciri.

Looks like Phil is the first person talking about that right?

 

[xE1NSTE1Nx2049]

Hello @zbum thank you for the support and welcome to the club. I actually didn't mind the kiss so much either. Frankly, I would have preferred it to be cut since I prefer Triss. But if they put it in for the reasons you prescribed above and cutting it isn't an option, then at least give the opportunity to talk to Triss about it afterwards. I don't know any woman who would say nothing to anybody about anything while another woman (friend or not, doesn't matter) planted one on her man. That is just my interpretation though.

 

[Raptorini]

There is just one thing I disagree or, at least, I didn't interpreted the way you did. It's about the famous kiss of Yen at Kaer Morhen.
It didn't shock me. It happens at a very specific time : when Ciri is brought back to Kaer Morhen, brought back to Yen, who is kind of her mother.

I agree with you. For me it was kind of thanks from Yen to Geralt for bring Ciri alive to KM. Maybe Yen could say only "Thanks"
And Hi

 

[wright1978]

Hi everyone !

This is my first post on this forum and first of all, I want to tell you congratulations for this amazing thread and sorry for my poor english (I'm french) !
It's very nice to read constructive debates about this issue.
So you have my whole support !

There is just one thing I disagree or, at least, I didn't interpreted the way you did. It's about the famous kiss of Yen at Kaer Morhen.
It didn't shock me. It happens at a very specific time : when Ciri is brought back to Kaer Morhen, brought back to Yen, who is kind of her mother.
So my way to see things is :
- Yen kisses Geralt because she so happy to see that he brought back Ciri (and don't forget she's still in love with him).
- About Triss reaction, I kinda liked it. Triss knows it's not the time for this kind of explanation. Ciri is back. Triss knows as well that Yen was the former lover of Geralt (and in a way, she stole Geralt from her and she knows it). She knows as well that Yen is the mother of Ciri. And Yen was her friend. I think she understands Yen's reaction, even if she's not happy with it. And that's why she decides to keep low profile and not to make a scene.
Anyway, that's the way I understand it.

But apart from that specific point, I agree with you about everything else.

Welcome, wish i could find any redeeming feature of the kiss. If it had of been a peck on the lips or a heartful hug i'd agree with your interpretation. However to me it was a passionate kiss and the fact that Triss only had a look as a response wasn't right imo. No dialogue later to deal with her or Yen to deal with it and especially after her horrendous absence from Kaer Morhen & constant yen focus it just felt lazy and shoddy content aimed solely at Yen romancers.

---------- Updated at 10:05 PM ----------

Hi everyone !

This is my first post on this forum and first of all, I want to tell you congratulations for this amazing thread and sorry for my poor english (I'm french) !
It's very nice to read constructive debates about this issue.
So you have my whole support !

There is just one thing I disagree or, at least, I didn't interpreted the way you did. It's about the famous kiss of Yen at Kaer Morhen.
It didn't shock me. It happens at a very specific time : when Ciri is brought back to Kaer Morhen, brought back to Yen, who is kind of her mother.
So my way to see things is :
- Yen kisses Geralt because she so happy to see that he brought back Ciri (and don't forget she's still in love with him).
- About Triss reaction, I kinda liked it. Triss knows it's not the time for this kind of explanation. Ciri is back. Triss knows as well that Yen was the former lover of Geralt (and in a way, she stole Geralt from her and she knows it). She knows as well that Yen is the mother of Ciri. And Yen was her friend. I think she understands Yen's reaction, even if she's not happy with it. And that's why she decides to keep low profile and not to make a scene.
Anyway, that's the way I understand it.

But apart from that specific point, I agree with you about everything else.

Welcome, wish i could find any redeeming feature of the kiss. If it had of been a peck on the lips or a heartful hug i'd agree with your interpretation. However to me it was a passionate kiss and the fact that Triss only had a look as a response wasn't right imo. No dialogue later to deal with her or Yen to deal with it and especially after her horrendous absence from Kaer Morhen & constant yen focus it just felt lazy and shoddy content aimed solely at Yen romancers.

 

[Noobseals]

Hi everyone !

This is my first post on this forum and first of all, I want to tell you congratulations for this amazing thread and sorry for my poor english (I'm french) !
It's very nice to read constructive debates about this issue.
So you have my whole support !

There is just one thing I disagree or, at least, I didn't interpreted the way you did. It's about the famous kiss of Yen at Kaer Morhen.
It didn't shock me. It happens at a very specific time : when Ciri is brought back to Kaer Morhen, brought back to Yen, who is kind of her mother.
So my way to see things is :
- Yen kisses Geralt because she so happy to see that he brought back Ciri (and don't forget she's still in love with him).
- About Triss reaction, I kinda liked it. Triss knows it's not the time for this kind of explanation. Ciri is back. Triss knows as well that Yen was the former lover of Geralt (and in a way, she stole Geralt from her and she knows it). She knows as well that Yen is the mother of Ciri. And Yen was her friend. I think she understands Yen's reaction, even if she's not happy with it. And that's why she decides to keep low profile and not to make a scene.
Anyway, that's the way I understand it.

But apart from that specific point, I agree with you about everything else.

Yen should not kiss Geralt at KM if she was rejected in The last wish quest. She felt sad and angry after that quest so I don't think she would want to have any intimate behavior with Geralt anymore.
But anyway it is not the main issue, they just need to add more interactions in ACT2 and ACT3.

 

[xE1NSTE1Nx2049]

P: I noticed the problems betweent You, Triss and Yennefer.I guess it is hard for Ciri. Someimes I ask myself if you know what all of you are doing. Triss is playing Ciris sister but waits greedy for a chance to sleep with you again while Yen and you are playing parents for Ciri.

Looks like Phil is the first person talking about that right?

First and only really. Would have liked that one to be it's own dialogue sequence where you can say something for yourself. It happens as you're just walking around though and so Geralt is kind of indecisive about the whole thing. Being standoffish, beating around the bush, doesn't fit with his character as I know it - he must create maximum impact with minimal material. He should say to her point blank what he is thinking and why he is thinking it. I have said it before and I will say it again, subtext has no place in such a complicated and emotionally charged scenario. Especially as he is a Witcher, his emotions are turned way down. He needs to speak and dispel all doubt.

 

[DarkWolf1]

Hi everyone !

This is my first post on this forum and first of all, I want to tell you congratulations for this amazing thread and sorry for my poor english (I'm french) !
It's very nice to read constructive debates about this issue.
So you have my whole support !

There is just one thing I disagree or, at least, I didn't interpreted the way you did. It's about the famous kiss of Yen at Kaer Morhen.
It didn't shock me. It happens at a very specific time : when Ciri is brought back to Kaer Morhen, brought back to Yen, who is kind of her mother.
So my way to see things is :
- Yen kisses Geralt because she so happy to see that he brought back Ciri (and don't forget she's still in love with him).
- About Triss reaction, I kinda liked it. Triss knows it's not the time for this kind of explanation. Ciri is back. Triss knows as well that Yen was the former lover of Geralt (and in a way, she stole Geralt from her and she knows it). She knows as well that Yen is the mother of Ciri. And Yen was her friend. I think she understands Yen's reaction, even if she's not happy with it. And that's why she decides to keep low profile and not to make a scene.
Anyway, that's the way I understand it.

But apart from that specific point, I agree with you about everything else.

This is exactly how i feel about this ... and i mean exactly

 

[ltdk92]

@Redemyr

This seems a rather hefty chunk of content to be added. Even this scene would be a lot more time in dialogue sessions and mocap sessions. I certainly wouldn't object to Triss having a second arc after her story in Novigrad, she could get some nice development and screen time. Seems to be the less important issue though. I still believe a small quest here and a dialogue or two there would be a better fix in addressing the staggeringly inconsistent portrayal of the romance. Changing what is already there is hard but adding on top of it and adding it in a way that is meaningful and helps to validate your choice would be the main concern. For me personally.

Like I said, if they wanted to give her some more screen time, I wouldn't object but I don't think this would fix a lot of the problems addressed in this thread. You said this is an alternative to explain why she isn't in Kaer Morhen when you arrive. I agree that this issue could use some explanation and a fix in general, but making it it's own separate quest seems a bit much. I feel a more reasonable fix would be to just have her tell you where she is going to go (Velen, Skellige, somewhere else in the northern part of the map around Novigrad) and you could go there and check in with her. Sometimes the simpler solution is the better one. Like I said though, it is not up to us to decide what is feasible or faithful to the game so any and all suggestions are welcome here. Feel free to post the next section and I will comment on that one too.

As for the content within, I like that you tried to add complexity and reasoning to the fact that she would be torturing these people but I don't think, even if she had good reason to, she would do it. Sure the torture scene in Novigrad was unpleasant but it is not the first time she's gone through something like that. As someone who had been tortured, she would likely be turned off to the whole scene. It's not an effective way to get information from someone, it's cruel. Plain and simple. I think she is also fairly level-headed and wouldn't just snap like you have her doing here. She certainly wouldn't need Geralt to bust in and calm her down either. Even if she had a momentary lapse in judgement it would be just that, momentary. I think she would quickly realize that hurting these people gets her nowhere.

I appreciate you putting the time in and exploring some other possibilities. A possible quest set up that I think would be more in keeping with the tone, while also adding something to the romance, would be like my Rose of Remembrance quest setup. Post 1415 (page 141) if you missed it the first time around.

Agreed. If any Triss content is to be supplemented, it would have to be minor additions in dialogue or a side quest. It could even be a part of a larger expansion that examines the precarious condition mages and every magic affiliated character live under. This may have post-game value in the larger universe because if CDPR ever decide to do another Witcher game or related media, we could get a greater sense of how our choices pan out. This would be a great opportunity to include some Triss content that doesn't alter the main story progression, which is much more difficult to do. It also sets up interesting developments on how the humanities and magic are impacted by the war and subsequent victories. I find these facets of the Witcher universe important because in-game lore suggests that the use of magic has been crucial in stemming the tide of monsters from eradicating humans or at least dwindling their numbers. This also opens up opportunities to examine witchers more closely, as they are the central group/faction in the series. This may be improbable depending on what CDPR already has in store as DLC material, especially if it isn't anything related to Triss. However, I have confidence in CDPR to give us something, which I also hope expands on the universe consequently.