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The Triss content and the inconsistency of our romance's choice

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The Triss content and the inconsistency of our romance's choice

  • Dissatisfied from the lack of Triss content and want more

    Votes: 1,194 85.3%
  • I don't care at all

    Votes: 40 2.9%
  • There was enough of Triss in the game

    Votes: 128 9.1%
  • I don't like Triss

    Votes: 38 2.7%

  • Total voters
    1,400
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Willowhugger

Willowhugger

Forum veteran
#2,321
Jun 6, 2015
warbaby2 said:
Contrary to some other game franchises out there, the Witcher series has quite some internal consistency when it comes to stuff like that. Comes with the fact that it's based on a book series, I'd guess. ;)
Click to expand...
*ahem* The White Frost as Cthulhu Snowstorm consuming the multiverse *Ahem*

Yes, the games would NEVER retcon the books.

*ahem*
 
warbaby2

warbaby2

Forum veteran
#2,322
Jun 6, 2015
Willowhugger said:
*ahem* The White Frost as Cthulhu Snowstorm consuming the multiverse *Ahem*

Yes, the games would NEVER retcon the books.

*ahem*
Click to expand...
Well, it's the most literal representation of the prophecy, but a retcon? I don't think so.
 
Willowhugger

Willowhugger

Forum veteran
#2,323
Jun 6, 2015
warbaby2 said:
Well, it's the most literal representation of the prophecy, but a retcon? I don't think so.
Click to expand...
Eh, I think that's pushing that since the books seemed pretty clear that the prophecy was speaking of an Ice Age.

Not Blizzardthulhu.

Ciri's powers were supposed to create someone who could lead the people of the North away from the disaster, not punch out Climate Change.

AWESOME AS THAT MAY BE.

Anyway, I was just thinking they could come up with an excuse for Ciri not being overpowered. After all, she lost all of her cool sorcery powers due to a unicorn.
 
warbaby2

warbaby2

Forum veteran
#2,324
Jun 6, 2015
Willowhugger said:
Eh, I think that's pushing that since the books seemed pretty clear that the prophecy was speaking of an Ice Age.

Not Blizzardthulhu.

Ciri's powers were supposed to create someone who could lead the people of the North away from the disaster, not punch out Climate Change.

AWESOME AS THAT MAY BE.
Click to expand...
We still don't know what the White Frost would have actually done, though... an ice age, sure, a magical one at that, but the end would, most likely still have come by "sword and axe", since the people would have killed each other in the attempt to survive in a world that would slowly have becomes inhospitable.
 
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Z

Zeroscape

Forum veteran
#2,325
Jun 6, 2015
Willowhugger said:
Eh, I think that's pushing that since the books seemed pretty clear that the prophecy was speaking of an Ice Age.

Not Blizzardthulhu.

Ciri's powers were supposed to create someone who could lead the people of the North away from the disaster, not punch out Climate Change.

AWESOME AS THAT MAY BE.

Anyway, I was just thinking they could come up with an excuse for Ciri not being overpowered. After all, she lost all of her cool sorcery powers due to a unicorn.
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm pretty confused about the whole prophesy thing after the games. It just seems like the books and the games were doing their own interpretations of the same prophesy and we're left scratching our heads a little.

That and we've really only seen one half of her spiel play out. There's still Ciri's offspring to wonder about.

Ugh I really dislike that part of the Witcher universe. Just stick with the nuts and bolts please!
 
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warbaby2

warbaby2

Forum veteran
#2,326
Jun 6, 2015
Zeroscape said:
Yeah I'm pretty confused about the whole prophesy thing after the games. It just seems like the books and the games were doing their own interpretations of the same prophesy and we're left scratching our heads a little.

That and we've really only seen one half of her spiel play out. There's still Ciri's offspring to wonder about.

Ugh I really dislike that part of the Witcher universe. Just stick with the nuts and bolts please!
Click to expand...
That's the thing, though, there are none, since Sapkowski didn't continue the story, so all CDPR did was interpret the prophecy and make a game story out of it.

As far as the second half goes: I think Ciri defied that one and desided to stop the Wolf Blizzard before it even started, really, in thus breaking the prophecy.
 
L

ltdk92

Rookie
#2,327
Jun 6, 2015
Whatever CDPR intended by the "choice matters" they made to media is one thing, and what they have given us consumers in the final product is another. The posters on this thread feel like they have not kept the "choice matters" format consistently in the final product, which we are clearly challenging them to correct to some capacity. The game does incorporate choice in various plot points and story lines, i.e. the Bloody Baron, kingship in Skellige, and the Radovid assassination plot. So their inability to keep true to their statements in regards to the Triss content (romance or otherwise) is not game breaking, but it does take away from the immersive experience we have expected from their work. As a responsible consumer that they expect me to be by giving me the option to give constructive commentary on this forum, I am informing them of their narrative mistakes. The lack of Triss content, whether romance or not, has left a feeling of incompletion in terms of narrative continuity that CDPR themselves have established with Triss. Although not catastrophic for the main story as it plays out, it still leaves unusual character actions (or inactions in the case of Triss) that creates characterization out of context, which they have created in the previous games.

Sorry, for repeating myself. I am doing it more for the new browsers/guests/members to the thread. I think it is fair to say that this thread has become so long that our older comments have become lost to newer members lol.

Also, I think Kovir would be a reasonable place to visit in a DLC because of the mage reallocation to the region. It seems like some in-game interactions make Kovir a candidate as a new region to explore. As said by others, there could be some interesting intrigues that could feed into events that happen post-game. For example, the anti-magic wave that was rabid in the Redenia may have spread out towards other regions. While the king of Kovir does not support pogroms against mages and other magic engaged persons, that is not to say that every member of his court has the same opinions...There could be some usurper who wishes to take advantage of the large number of mages into Kovir and the anti-mage rhetoric to craft a plan of assassination that would then be pinned on mages. Another option could be to have a segment of mages scheme to have some payback against anti-mage groups that wish to penetrate into Kovir and spread mass-murder there too. Triss and Geralt could attempt to stop this from happening through varied side quests.
 
Last edited: Jun 6, 2015
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Reactions: bigmaccy and xE1NSTE1Nx2049
Z

Zeroscape

Forum veteran
#2,328
Jun 6, 2015
warbaby2 said:
That's the thing, though, there are none, since Sapkowski didn't continue the story, so all CDPR did was interpret the prophecy and make a game story out of it.

As far as the second half goes: I think Ciri defied that one and desided to stop the Wolf Blizzard before it even started, really, in thus breaking the prophecy.
Click to expand...
Even if we never saw the end-game of that in the books, it still felt like it was going a different direction. We didn't know where, but there was a definitive flow to it. Having said that, a lot of the tone changes from the books to the game so I guess the disconnect is unavoidable.

And as for breaking the prophecy, I can see that too but the whole White Frost aspect felt quite sudden and out of left field. Yeah, we knew it was going to happen in some way, but I just really disliked how fantastical and magical it seemed when everything else about the universe seems so believable. Even magic and magical creatures feel like science.

This is personal preference, I realize, but I was really hoping for some sort of explanation that would make, at least some, sense of that side of the story. Leave the whole question of destiny vague, because that's always an interesting question to ponder.
 
Willowhugger

Willowhugger

Forum veteran
#2,329
Jun 6, 2015
I think they needed to address the White Frost because it's such a nihilistic sort of thing in the story.

Why should we care about Redania when everyone is going to be dead in a couple of decades?

Not just the main characters but the WORLD.

They had to get it out of the way.
 
L

ltdk92

Rookie
#2,330
Jun 6, 2015
Zeroscape said:
Even if we never saw the end-game of that in the books, it still felt like it was going a different direction. We didn't know where, but there was a definitive flow to it. Having said that, a lot of the tone changes from the books to the game so I guess the disconnect is unavoidable.

And as for breaking the prophecy, I can see that too but the whole White Frost aspect felt quite sudden and out of left field. Yeah, we knew it was going to happen in some way, but I just really disliked how fantastical and magical it seemed when everything else about the universe seems so believable. Even magic and magical creatures feel like science.

This is personal preference, I realize, but I was really hoping for some sort of explanation that would make, at least some, sense of that side of the story. Leave the whole question of destiny vague, because that's always an interesting question to ponder.
Click to expand...
Agreed. The White Frost plot point wasn't given much time to resonate to the player because the majority of the game focused on the Wild Hunt and Ciri. We only get a few scenes (the Avallac'h sequence) and in-game information describing the White Frost, but not really enough to explain what it is. I can only imagine the vagueness was done to keep the enigmatic and ominous nature of the White Frost intact for the player as much as it was for the characters. Even Avallac'h, the most magical informed and encyclopedic character didn't really give you a comprehensive definition of what the storm is. Of course, I am going off of in-game material.
 
D

DaWitcher

Rookie
#2,331
Jun 6, 2015
White frost, sand storm, floods it doesn't matter. This gamer wants more of the red hair babe. Triss dammit (JK with the dammit) stay on topic people and keep this thread going strong about Triss. More Triss, More Triss, More more more Triss.

Thank you.
 
warbaby2

warbaby2

Forum veteran
#2,332
Jun 6, 2015
Zeroscape said:
Even if we never saw the end-game of that in the books, it still felt like it was going a different direction. We didn't know where, but there was a definitive flow to it. Having said that, a lot of the tone changes from the books to the game so I guess the disconnect is unavoidable.

And as for breaking the prophecy, I can see that too but the whole White Frost aspect felt quite sudden and out of left field. Yeah, we knew it was going to happen in some way, but I just really disliked how fantastical and magical it seemed when everything else about the universe seems so believable. Even magic and magical creatures feel like science.

This is personal preference, I realize, but I was really hoping for some sort of explanation that would make, at least some, sense of that side of the story. Leave the whole question of destiny vague, because that's always an interesting question to ponder.
Click to expand...
No no, I get you, and I agree... it certainly could have used more explaining. Although, it did kinda help a bit that we got to see the (future?) world, where it already happened. It just didn't look like something totally magical there... it looked like a big climate disaster.

AAAND back on topic... sorry. ;)
 
X

xE1NSTE1Nx2049

Rookie
#2,333
Jun 6, 2015
Seriously so much writing. :dry: You guys are just nonstop... I mean that in a positive sense though. :p Glad the conversation is staying so lively and relatively on topic. But it's like every time I clear a page and post something there's another page tacked on. :X

Zeroscape said:
Still, the devs could work around it if they wanted, just means that the quests need to be at a certain level range and then fail at some point as you do the main story quests.
Click to expand...
Honestly, the devs could do really anything they wanted as long as they write in a way that is convincing and does justice to the story as a whole. I am sure the overall plot of the expansions will be satisfying. Not sure how the relationships, romantic and otherwise, will play out but I think they will probably be pretty good. Still don't know if I will be picking them up but I am warming to the idea.

Sooxzay said:
Dont be upset ! We will see our lovely Triss once more somehow.. Im 100% sure about that. Just keep hoping and be patient And maybe those dreams are like an encouragement for an expansion
Click to expand...
I am sure we will see something. Not sure what it will be but I think our concerns are legitimate and our views are obviously quite popular.

Sooxzay said:
So the best way is to do the expansion after the battle. But there has to be another one for Yen too ofc. And maybe for people that choosed neither of them.
Click to expand...
I think it makes the most sense to integrate all characters equally into a single expansion and then leave a spot up for grabs. This spot is to be claimed by your particular romantic interest.

Tyrvar said:
Just remember after the lighthouse scene with Triss you unlock this questline

http://witcher.wikia.com/wiki/Where_...ss_Merigold?

Sadly it doesn't end, remaining an unfinished quest and you're always stuck trying to google where she actually is.
Click to expand...
That's funny. :p Maybe it's bugged and can't be completed. :p

xxggxx said:
Also, in Witcher 3, it would have been smart to mount a comparison between Triss in the novels and Triss today, to show that with time, she was not the same and it would have been one more elements for a scene of oral confrontation between Yennefer and her.
Click to expand...
This is true. She's undergone significant character development and growth, not just from the books but from the first game too. Could've been interesting to see something on this front. Not the main issue though - if they can fix all the problems in the game then they can add more stuff all they want. :eek:

Chronoid said:
IMHO, this game focused WAY too much on Ciri. I'm talking an inordinate amount of time. Especially towards the end. And man, Ciri got so unlikeable in that last bit.

No, screw you Ciri, this is GERALT's story, not yours! Otherwise, this game would be called The Mary Sue Ashen Haired Broad: The Wild Hunt. Almost wish there was a way to kill her off and then still ride off into the sunset with Triss.
Click to expand...
You're entitled to your opinion but I think Ciri is a great character and finally got some well-deserved screen time. I think she deserved some more cross-interaction with some of the other characters. By the end, because she was focused primarily on the Hunt, it made her feel a little flat. She's still good though. If you want to you can have her die in the "bad" ending and then go live with Triss but this ending is quite a bummer.

Willowhugger said:
I totes want a Ciri game.
Click to expand...
Maybe her own expansion? That'd be cool. :p

Tyrvar said:
Last 5 or so minutes is all the content after the lighthouse... In a 100-200 hour long game, it was adorable but still short, we need moar!

It's sadly missing the meaningful "Good luck" scene at the end.
Click to expand...
Yup, too short. Not evenly paced either. Yen wasn't perfectly spaced though either - she has her spot in the prologue but doesn't really reappear until Skellige. It just isn't as painful on the Yen side of things because she is woven directly into the main story. After Kaer Morhen, as has been said here before, Triss becomes decorative. She is there so us Triss-faithfuls can say she is there but she doesn't fulfill any kind of a major role. :X

bigmaccy said:
your going into the most dangerous situtaion you may not come out of, we know geralts a badass and triss knows this but would she not want to hug him and say "come back to me witcher"
Click to expand...
Definitely. She really should have said something more. Hell, that could've been the last they see of each other and all we don't really get any emotional input or output from anybody in that scene. :X Geralt should have said his goodbyes to everybody on that shore with him. Especially Triss, Ciri, and Yen.

Zeroscape said:
All of that would've been really cool to revisit with lifting Uma's curse. Loads of ways dialogue could go, depending on who you chose and who your romance option is.
Click to expand...
Totally agreed. Like I said, that scene could be tricky because things can't get too heated but if handled properly, would've paid off in a big way. If he chose Triss, Geralt and Yen could've gotten into an argument and when Yen is trying to get the last word in, she calls him "Dear Friend" again. They then could've reconciled later for Ciri, but that really would have helped to offer some insight and closure into the whole Yennefer breakup. As it stands, with them on the ship after they break the spell, it isn't entirely satisfying. You realize there isn't any closure; just sort of this issue they left hanging in the air. There's too much history between them to have it wrap up so neatly.

Thanks for the insight to some of the book stuff. I haven't read them myself but I intend to eventually. :p

Noobseals said:
I‘m pretty interested in this peaceful and wealthy country, and yes it was mentioned many times in the game.
Click to expand...
As am I. As it stands, Kovir is kind of this idyllic world shrouded in mystery. Would at least like to know a bit more about where my Witcher will be spending the rest of his days. :eek:

ltdk92 said:
Whatever CDPR intended by the "choice matters" they made to media is one thing, and what they have given us consumers in the final product is another. The posters on this thread feel like they have not kept the "choice matters" format consistently in the final product, which are clearly challenging them to correct to some capacity. The game does incorporate choice in various plot points and story lines, i.e. the Bloody Baron, kingship in Skellige, and the Radovid assassination plot. So their inability to keep true to their statements in regards to the Triss content (romance or otherwise) is not game breaking, but it does take away from the immersive experience we have expected from their work. As a responsible consumer that they expect me to be by giving me the option to give constructive commentary on this forum, I am informing them of their narrative mistakes. The lack of Triss content, whether romance or not, has left a feeling of incompletion in terms of narrative continuity that CDPR themselves have established with Triss. Although not catastrophic for the main story as it plays out, it still leaves unusual character actions (or inactions in the case of Triss) that through characterization out of context they have created in the previous games.
Click to expand...
Once again, you have hit the nail on the head. Keep posting stuff, man. :p

That's my biggest concern - they feeling that my choice of Triss isn't reflected in the game world a lot of the time. Your choices have consequences. The best example of this is Triss's arrival at Kaer Morhen. If you tell her to stay, she disappears and shows up just prior to the battle. If you tell her to go, she disappears and comes back prior to the battle. This isn't the only issue, but it is among the more grievous ones. And it isn't game breaking but it sure is watering down my enthusiasm for another play through. Which sucks, because I really would like to play it again. :X

Some additional content on the side (a quest here or there and few more dialogue interactions) would not fix the main issue as it is presented here but it would go a long way toward not making her feel utterly insignificant. Which I think is fair considering she is a pretty major character.

Seriously, some of the stuff you guys have been posting these last few pages is great. Keep it up. Really well thought out stuff. :)

---------- Updated at 03:26 AM ----------

DaWitcher said:
White frost, sand storm, floods it doesn't matter. This gamer wants more of the red hair babe. Triss dammit (JK with the dammit) stay on topic people and keep this thread going strong about Triss. More Triss, More Triss, More more more Triss.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
We are trying. :eek: It isn't terrible to let the conversation wander at times though to see if it can tie back into the Triss stuff in the future. You never know where new ideas will come from. We will be summarizing the major points, and the best points, of the thread a little later down the line so some of this White Frost stuff will probably get cut if we can't tie it to Triss in some way. The most important thing though is to keep the conversation up. If this thread dies down, it will have less of an impact. :eek:

As for summarizing the major points, when it's my turn I will be paying special attention to you guys @ltdk92 @Zeroscape and @Willowhugger - seeing as you guys are fans of the books but still fans of Triss too, you have some more interesting topics. To be honest though, when it is my turn, I will probably go back and read everything. Yes, I do mean everything. I know, pray for me... :dry: And I will consider all points equally.
 
Last edited: Jun 6, 2015
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L

ltdk92

Rookie
#2,334
Jun 6, 2015
Yes, ON TOPIC!! My interest is piqued by these tangential discussions, sorry lol

I am hoping that CDPR noticed that there would be a backlash against their earlier decision on Triss in development and created a bundle of content that can be scrapped together if they feel like they cannot contribute new material. As said previously, this extra material could have been scrapped and saved for DLC release because of size restrictions or some other technical challenges.

Or they could be working on something right now as we type, which would patch up our concerns. I have to believe that CDPR is doing or has done something for this problem because they clearly noticed it themselves in the material they provided us to begin with. Something small is better than nothing at all
 
Last edited: Jun 6, 2015
M

msanx

Rookie
#2,335
Jun 6, 2015
xE1NSTE1Nx2049 said:
Seriously so much writing. You guys are just nonstop... I mean that in a positive sense though. Glad the conversation is staying so lively and relatively on topic. But it's like every time I clear a page and post something there's another page tacked on.
Click to expand...
Yep by the time i wake up tomorrow morning, this thread will have reached 300 pages (maybe exaggerating a bit) :)
 
A

allen3

Rookie
#2,336
Jun 6, 2015
ltdk92 said:
The game does incorporate choice in various plot points and story lines, i.e. the Bloody Baron, kingship in Skellige, and the Radovid assassination plot.
Click to expand...
That's was it so frustrating. Some of those side quests were so well done, and as others mentioned the romance content didn't seem to get the priority it really should have. It should have been only second only to the main quest. It seems they designed many scenes to serve both love interest options, with just minor changes in dialog which is a shame.

I also think Geralt could have had better interaction with his friends, some goodbyes would have been nice towards the end.
 
V

vTemeria

Rookie
#2,337
Jun 6, 2015
I don't think even Liara T'soni had this outpouring of support after she was initially shafted in Mass Effect 2.
 
X

xE1NSTE1Nx2049

Rookie
#2,338
Jun 6, 2015
:) :) Finally caught up from last night. :) :)

This thread is too popular for my own good. :X

ltdk92 said:
am hoping that CDPR noticed that there would be a backlash against their earlier decision on Triss in development and created a bundle of content that can be scrapped together if they feel like they cannot contribute new material. As said previously, this extra material could have been scrapped and saved for DLC release because of size restrictions or some other technical challenge.

Or they could be working on something right now as we type, which would patch up our concerns. I have to believe that CDPR is doing or has done something for this problem because they clearly noticed it themselves in the material they provided us to begin with.
Click to expand...
I do find it hard to believe that nobody noticed this at any point of the development process. If this is the case and they just didn't have the time to fix it before the slated release date, they could be working on stuff right now. It is a possibility and that would certainly make me a bit happier. :p

---------- Updated at 03:57 AM ----------

msanx said:
Yep by the time i wake up tomorrow morning, this thread will have reached 300 pages (maybe exaggerating a bit)
Click to expand...
250 easily - we have some incredibly popular opinions here. :) 93k views, 2340 posts, and 501 votes in the poll (85% in our favor)

vTemeria said:
I don't think even Liara T'soni had this outpouring of support after she was initially shafted in Mass Effect 2.
Click to expand...
And the Shadow Broker DLC was almost entirely focused on Liara. We will have our day in the sun yet :)
 
warbaby2

warbaby2

Forum veteran
#2,339
Jun 6, 2015
xE1NSTE1Nx2049 said:
And the Shadow Broker DLC was almost entirely focused on Liara. We will have our day in the sun yet :)
Click to expand...
Let's hope for the best... and make some noise while we're at it. ;)

Seriously, though... a post game DLC where we actually get to visit Korvir and see Triss' and Geralt's house, maybe going for a hunt with them, or resolve some court conspiracy? Oh the possibilities!
 
Last edited: Jun 6, 2015
Z

Zeroscape

Forum veteran
#2,340
Jun 6, 2015
xE1NSTE1Nx2049 said:
:) :) Finally caught up from last night. :) :)

This thread is too popular for my own good. :X



I do find it hard to believe that nobody noticed this at any point of the development process. If this is the case and they just didn't have the time to fix it before the slated release date, they could be working on stuff right now. It is a possibility and that would certainly make me a bit happier. :p
Click to expand...
Game development is all about deliberate choices. So it's more likely that they had other priorities/limitations or they were happy with the amount of content they had created for Triss. Unless we hear otherwise, the default assumption is that "it works as intended".

Fingers crossed though, for sure.
 
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