The Triss content and the inconsistency of our romance's choice

[TheSavagePotato]

There are so many great ideas in this thread but i think we need to focus and collectively ask for something realistic and not to ask for additions to the game that may seem one sided and too focused on specific characters.In my opinion the most realistic and necessary feature FOR NOW would be:
1)Extra cutscenes and dialogue options between Geralt and his choice of romance +some interaction and acknowledgement from the other characters of the player's decisions especially between Act-2 and the end of the game.
2)A DLC or Expansion that would adapt to the the ending that each of us got(if that is not possible to a generally accepted "canon" ending),that would give us some closure and the ability to interact with our companions even after the end of the main story.
I know that this thread is dedicated to Triss but i think the bigger problem is the lack of depth in almost all of the npc dialogues after the end of Act-1 and the beginning of Act-2 with some specific exceptions for example when Geralt and the witchers get drunk,though that one has problems too more specifically the lack of available choices when you can't state who did you choose as your romance,a phenomenon which appears multiple times over the course of the game.

 

[Sooxzay]

I will always vote in favour of more Triss - but to my mind, one of the crucial missing pieces of the Triss romance is at the end of a scene that includes only Yennefer: a resolution of the other romance. I know what's in game is entirely appropriate to the characters: whenever the topic arises, Geralt turns into a stone-faced monosyllabic rock troll, Yennefer shuts him up with cutting remarks or a cold shower, and Triss shies away and cringes like a wounded animal, lost in her guilt and giving Geralt the space to push her away. None of this should change at all: it is excruciatingly painful to watch, it's utterly realistic, and it makes anyone whose heart is not made of stone want to hug them and tell them it's ok - but at some point there must be a resolution, and it is not in keeping with the story's stated priorities at all to leave it up to a single bland sentence. To be more precise: at the end of The Last Wish, Geralt and Yennefer do finally get to talk about where they will go from where they are, and a simple 'I don't love you', followed by 'Just because I don't love you doesn't mean I don't like spending time with you' I feel does not represent the perspective of someone in a romance with Triss, does not fit with the much-vaunted 'adult RPG with tough choices' theme, and actually seems quite cruel from this perspective. I don't mind the existence of this option for those who want to pursue neither and want to play a Geralt who suddenly feels the lifting of a burden, it's just not representative of those of us who feel the need to take a more complex position.

First of: Welcome to the party sir ! And thank you for that imense wall of text full with good arguments and viewpoints !

This is another reason many of us are upset about the romance drama. As I said some pages before (Dont let me count them..) I think this is indeed an RPG for adults if you see the violence and the whole atmosphere in the game. Ofc you can see those beautiful sunsets and all that. But if you dig deeper you will notice that the world Geralt lives in is really brutal and insane. And since I noticed that I was thinking about the whole romance affair.

You should be able to really talk about all of those personal problems Geralt has. Since he had amnesia they literally wants you to change his personality - at least in a logical way. So if one is able to go with Triss and break up with Yen after almost 20 years one should also be able to tell her why. She deserves it. Just fact. Nothing to discuss about that. Even if she knows without telling her. Its an adult RPG as you said and thats why at least in my eyes you should be able to confront characters that are really deep into the story for ages. Like Zoltan, Dandelion, Ciri, Triss, Yen, Vesemir etc. etc.

And at the scene you have mentioned I wanted to scream into the monitor "TELL HER! FOR FK SAKE SHE HAS TO KNOW IT !". But there was no way.. just a Yennefer left that was about to jump off the mountain because you broke up with her after almost 20 years without giving her any reasons for your - in her eyes - most retarded decision.

 

[wright1978]

1) I absolutely love the Triss content we do have. I'm of one mind with the post by msanx on this.
...

2) .... An option to set Cerys straight may be nice, but I don't find it essential. ...

3) Many have suggested that Triss should take a lead role from the first visit to Kaer Morhen onwards. Aside from the fact that it seems infeasible to me to disentangle Yennefer from the existing content, and that it would be a waste of a lot of good material which works perfectly well as it stands, I don't think it would be reasonable to suggest Yennefer would take a back seat in the hunt for Ciri; she just seems to be too invested, and rightly so.

All it takes in my view is an explanation of why Triss is not there at the time - or Keira, for that matter. This to me suggests some extra content waiting to happen, or at least a good opportunity for it. As long as she has a task that is keeping her busy elsewhere while Geralt and Yennefer lift the curse, it should all work out fine, in fact it would also be a good opportunity for Geralt to test his own commitment - what if he had chosen Triss but he still had the opportunity to be intimate with Yennefer?



Suffice to say, the main thrust of my argument is this: a true expansion is likely to open up a whole new area, albeit not one likely to be quite as large as Novigrad, and thus far every new area has been a rumoured sighting of Ciri. I can't see other reasons strong enough for Geralt to make the journey at this time. He also has no clue where Ciri might be, other than a tenuous link to Uma; all his leads have gone cold. Triss could offer to chase down that lead while Yennefer works on lifting the curse - not to mention the fact that she probably knows what a fould mood Yennefer is in and would gladly take any chance to make herself scarce. Indeed, it would be entirely plausible for this to have happened before Geralt arrives at Kaer Morhen, and to be the very reason for the untimely demise of that comfy bed; if Triss had been at Kaer Morhen when Yennefer teleported in, she would certainly have had words with Yennefer while Geralt made his trip there on horseback.

4) Some have suggested there should be additional content for the game after the end, such as DLC (e.g. Kovir), more extended adventures depending on the end state and in particular Ciri's fate, not being dropped into a pre-end-game state and instead resolve outstanding quests after the end, and more.

5) ...In fact, I don't think a fight between Yennnefer and Triss would be something I'd like to actually see in-game...
t.

1) Very much agree that there is some excellent Triss content. However there just isn't enough of it. As for the break-up I certainly think Geralt should be saying he's no longer in love with whichever woman he lets down but other options than blaming wish should be there.

2) Skellige. I have to say i'm still not a particular fan of Geralt's forced flirting with Yen in Skellige and the difference that you can't correct people unlike with Dijkstra.
Found it more of an issue when i'd already chosen Triss first time round versus doing Skellige first second time round.

3) Most people haven't felt Triss should take a lead role in Kaer Morhen and don't have an issue with Yen being there. Most feel she should be there too(and so do i strongly). Also think Keira and Letho should be there. As of now there's even zero reactivity to Triss choice in the Kaer Morhen section, which is just completely wrong too. Really does feel like an attempt to force the Yen romance. Personally i really hope they address this and at least give her, her own unique arrival at Kaer Morhen just after the completion of Ugly Baby and before brothers in arms to make something of an utter mess, where we see acknowledgement of them as a couple and some words between Triss and Yen over their personal animiosities.

An expansion isn't really going to address this issue as i highly doubt they will force an expansion to be played at that specific point in the plot. The best case scenario is for additional content that then can be headcannoned as keeping her occupied longer.

4) I don't see post game content as likely now. I think if they'd crafted the epilogues and post game play to create a more immersive post game experience then post game expansions would have made a lot more sense storywise.

5) Don't think there should be fisticuffs between Triss and Yen but firmly believe we should have seen harsh words between the pair. As it stands the only time we see any sign of their having addressed their personal issues in any way is in threesome variant when they team up to get revenge on Geralt. That's just terribly poor reactivity once again.

 

[EtherealSand]

I think the break up scenes could be a great opportunity at settling the Yen/Triss decision. One thing I enjoyed is how your rejection of getting back together with Yen could show just how much Geralt cares for Triss. I think that this could also show Yen that Geralt didn't just hookup with Triss but that he really cares for her considering he is willing to drop out of a relationship with a lot of history for one with not as much. The tossing the bed out the window bit could still be left in as a way to show that Yen still cares for Geralt and it could end up with Yen being respectful towards Geralt's feelings and wishing the best for them.
Same thing can go in the dock scene. Triss can wish him the best of luck and be on her way (only to come back later in the game lol).
This I think would make sense as to why the two are on good terms at Kaer Morhen. If you choose neither things can just end as they do now where neither are mentioned.

 

[SatDude]

As of now there's even zero reactivity to Triss choice in the Kaer Morhen section

The best case scenario is for additional content that then can be headcannoned as keeping her occupied longer.

As it stands the only time we see any sign of their having addressed their personal issues in any way is in threesome variant

Very well formulated. I back this 100%

 

[zaskar70]

If possible, not only the romance itself needs more consistency, but also the rejection. I mean, Geralt starts the game single (although with a crush on Yen). In my current playthrough, my character never tried anything with Yen or Triss, always kept the dialogues somewhat civil, and now both women are mad at my Geralt, even though they were already evasive when first met in the game (First encounters with Triss, she acts like "Forget it Gerald, leave what happened between us in the past" [and I'm like "OK"], while Yen in general is more concerned that the feelings between her and Geralt are linked to the Djinn [and I'm also like "Do not worry about it!"]). How can two women that are avoiding the restart of a relationship get mad with the guy because he never asked them out!

Actually Geralt starts the game still in love with Triss but because of his regained memory now also has new/old feelings for Yennefer, Geralt is single because Triss apparantly decides that she no longer wants to help Geralt find Yennefer, maybe because she doesnt want to be a distraction so geralt can figure out the regained feelings about Yennefer easier.

So Geralt didnt magicaly fall out of love with Triss and in love with yennefer between witcher 2 and 3 he is just trying to find Yennefer to see what these regained memories of him loving her are all about with Triss giving him the space to do that.

 

[witcher3_10108]

1)Extra cutscenes and dialogue options between Geralt and his choice of romance +some interaction and acknowledgement from the other characters of the player's decisions especially between Act-2 and the end of the game.
2)A DLC or Expansion that would adapt to the the ending that each of us got(if that is not possible to a generally accepted "canon" ending),that would give us some closure and the ability to interact with our companions even after the end of the main story.

I hope we will be able to go for a beer someday.

 

[TheSavagePotato]

I hope we will be able to go for a beer someday.

Cheers!

 

[Redemyr]

text.

I have to say I agree with many of your points, and then disagree with others.

First off, we should never hold back on asking the devs what we want, think about this might require too much work, etc. We ask for what we want, and it is up to them to deliver or not. To judge if it is possible or not.

And at the end of the day, inconsistencies aside (which should be fixed regardless), it boils down to human nature. If we choose one person in a game, then we want to spend more time with that person.

Lore-wise there are reasons for either to take the lead role and for the other to take a back seat, they are both sorcerers, their powers never really clear, they are acquainted with the same people in Geralt's world (actually Triss has a lead here for KM and characters introduced in the games), both care about Geralt and Ciri, etc.

Since the search for Ciri is so spread out, there are plenty of opportunities for whoever we choose to stay with us, with the quests having slight differences depending on who is present, and for the other to be mostly elsewhere. It would also have the nice effect of adding replayability to the game.

Considering the huge amount of dialogue elsewhere in the game, these fixes would be trivial.

And it is up to the devs to either force the story they want to tell on us, or to give us meaningful and proper freedom of choice.

 

[First_Encounter]

Nice discussion, hope that Developers will hear our voice I agree with most statements, but i would like to add something from me as an old The Witcher series player:

In The Wither 1 and The Wither 2 those who had bought the game were given 'Enhanced Edition' for free few months later. That meant more quests with NPCs, more cut scenes, content and even new small locations. I think all this new content with Triss can be included rather in Enhanced Edition, not a 'DLC romance expansion' - just in a way like in W1 and W2

 

[hawkeyesforever]

I was looking back at the scenes with Triss during Novigrad, and despite the lack of content, i have to say that CDPR nailed the bit about them still having feelings for each other. I mean the first time you meet Triss and the almost shocked but happy look on her face when she says "Geralt" and he replies "Hey Triss", really showed the expressions in great detail, and later on when she asks how Yen is doing and then proceeds on to say "that's good" and "nevermind, i got my answer" - it is almost a representation of how much Triss is trying to move on but having Geralt back makes it hard to do and yet we the player can tell she is still holding a candle for him.

In fact almost every interaction with Triss during her quests were written superbly, it is almost a constant struggle for those two characters to move on and the game does try to push the player into enjoying those moments. I remember the Menge quest where Geralt thanks her for doing this and she says anyone could of done it only for him to reply with "no, not anyone", it was one of those moments where you could tell that the developers did put effort into this dialogue and that is why i don't believe her romance arc was an afterthought. Then of course outside of Novigrad in regards to giving back her earrings and the scene at the fountain were other examples of the thought put into it. We love Triss a lot because her relationship with Geralt is one of those things that hint at Geralt actually willing to have a life with her and that is rewarding for us players too (not just Geralt).

CDPR in my opinion are experts at making major characters feel fleshed out, and like i said before the facial expressions that Triss and Geralt showed to each other are so great that i struggle to think of any other game series that can match it (also the same can be said for Yen and Geralt, that was also done very well), i mean maybe Morrigan from Dragon Age comes to mind in terms of a relationship evolving, and while there is a lack of interacting with Triss (and some plot holes), what they did create especially in Novigrad was done so well that i think it is easy to fall in love with these particular characters. I could almost argue that the game makes it easy to romance both Yen and Triss because they both are important to Geralt, (and makes it hard to reject them due to the emotional scenes) and effectively that means to us as well (of course you end up alone if you do that).

I have to say that yeah the game pushes the player to letting Triss go, but i also see it as a way of saying 'if you want to be with Triss, you have to work for it' and that makes it all the more rewarding. However it is not all that rewarding because they lack of consistency with that choice really hurts the game and our playthrough and that is such a let down especially after those incredible dialogue, scenes and hints between the two. So what is there is great, but what wasn't there makes it feel all the less meaningful.

---------- Updated at 10:33 AM ----------

Awesome screenshots, i am happy it has Triss from the Witcher 2, that was one game where she got plenty of love

I completely agree with you. The Novigrad quests with Triss were some of my favorite moments of the game. Their interactions were very well written, and CDPR really nailed the facial expressions throughout the game. Probably one of the big reasons there's so much emotional attachment to the characters, they very much felt real.

Triss's romance arc definitely wasn't an afterthought, at least not in Novigrad. However, after Novigrad it's just a problem because 1) You go so long before you see her again if you do Skellige after Novigrad since there's probably some 40+ hours of content in between Triss appearances, and 2) When you do see her again, it's not like the act like lovers except for the beautiful mirror fountain scene, and 3) There really isn't any indication among the other characters through dialogue about the choice you made.

I also agree that the game makes it very very difficult to say no to either Yen or Triss. There are so many feels in their scenes where you get to say to I love you to them, or choose not to. I know for me even though I chose Triss, I felt like a huge ass for saying no to Yen.

Agree completely with your last paragraph. I was totally expecting more content with Triss after Novigrad to make that decision feel more rewarding, but it just didn't happen other than the mirror fountain scene which to me was one of the most beautiful scenes in the game. I actually never got the earring scene because I forgot to loot them. You go so long after seeing her in Novigrad, only to be let down with a lack of character interactions.

 

[Trireme]

There is also that point from The Last Wish, Yen can FINALLY put to rest that 20 year old nagging question, that splinter in her eye...if the love they feel is real or just the spell? After that quest she knows for sure.

Which for the Triss romance, I of course haven't played but, that scene would be devastating to her when she confirms she loves Geralt but be doesn't feel the same after the spell is lifted. I really am not looking forward to seeing that scene at all next play-through...

Incidentally, has anyone NOT done the last wish quest and seen what happens? I don't really want to do a whole playthrough just to find out, but it would be cool if your Triss romance was doomed somehow if you didn't break the djinn spell.

 

[lanep25]

Dear CD projekt RED devs, please flesh out the Triss and Geralt romance more.

 

[hawkeyesforever]

Yes, absolutely about Triss! Early on I got slammed because I mentioned I thought the issues with the world not knowing the Now or Never 'decision' was because it COULD be delayed and someone forgot to check the box. But the slam I received was because I thought that quest(and its important results) should be tied to the main story. I still think that!

If you make that decision EARLY in the main, and you then tie the Last Wish to it as well, Triss then takes the lead role from Kaer Morhen on! Thats not to say Yen's gone but she would become an appropriate important extra character and Triss becomes the one at Geralt's side through most of the rest of the story. I believe IF CDPR had gone that, admittedly, extreme route with the Triss, the folks flipping out now wouldn't be. They would understand it is a one woman show for Geralt and they would better understand the Yen-cintric nature when you pick her and thus the lack of the Triss we have come to expect in the later stages of the story.

Agreed, to me what you suggest with your 2nd paragraph would actually make your decision seem to matter more in the game. That'd be a pretty extreme route to add Triss in in favor of Yen. I'd suggest just having Triss around more and also keep Yen around, after all, aren't Yen & Triss like best friends and they pretty much have no interaction between each other. I know it probably would have been pretty fun to have a quest with Yen, Triss, and Geralt in Skellige all together but I think CDPR really wanted to separate Triss & Yen, and make Novigrad about Triss, Skellige about Yen.

 

[Trireme]

It is devastating, i was sure that the whole "cold as ice" type of character that Yen showed previously would mean that she wouldn't get hurt but it was one of the few moments that i thought i should have picked her instead of Triss and it really made me feel enough sorry for her that i started a 2nd playthrough in which i romanced her.

It's sad (and well done by CDPR) that you only see how much Yen feels for Geralt when it's too late. She has way more feeling if she loses him than if she keeps him!

 

[hawkeyesforever]

It's sad (and well done by CDPR) that you only see how much Yen feels for Geralt when it's too late. She has way more feeling if she loses him than if she keeps him!

Agreed, I chose Triss in my first playthrough because I liked Triss, and Yen came off as pretty cold. I still felt pretty bad having to dump Yen though, that was a pretty emotional quest. I might have to just romance Yen in my 2nd playthrough to change things up a bit.

 

[Noideausername]

Incidentally, has anyone NOT done the last wish quest and seen what happens? I don't really want to do a whole playthrough just to find out, but it would be cool if your Triss romance was doomed somehow if you didn't break the djinn spell.

Well i did do the quest but i told Yen that i did not love her anymore after the spell was broken, after that she looked really down if i recall correctly she said something among the lines Well we can go now or something similar, and geralt responded Just because i don't love you, doesn't mean i don't like being with you, of course i had to say that, i can only stay faithfull to one person and that's obviously Triss.Don't know if i answered your question :S.

 

[Riddlin]

Incidentally, has anyone NOT done the last wish quest and seen what happens? I don't really want to do a whole playthrough just to find out, but it would be cool if your Triss romance was doomed somehow if you didn't break the djinn spell.

Hummmmm...interesting. <frowny face, deep in thought> I hope this gets an answer!

---------- Updated at 05:22 PM ----------

Agreed, to me what you suggest with your 2nd paragraph would actually make your decision seem to matter more in the game. That'd be a pretty extreme route to add Triss in in favor of Yen. I'd suggest just having Triss around more and also keep Yen around, after all, aren't Yen & Triss like best friends and they pretty much have no interaction between each other. I know it probably would have been pretty fun to have a quest with Yen, Triss, and Geralt in Skellige all together but I think CDPR really wanted to separate Triss & Yen, and make Novigrad about Triss, Skellige about Yen.

Yeah, thats what I meant with the Triss-Rom choice, if you did both; Geralt tells Triss he loves her and then do the break away with the Last Wish...at that point Triss is gonna always be somewhere near. Wouldn't change the quests at all...we suddenly wouldn't have Triss leading us around looking for leads on Ciri...it would be what she told Geralt, "I'll always be at your side if you need me..." Now that changes a lot in looks and appearances, but it isn't game changing...at least not in me head!

If the player goes the Yen-Rom direction, then you get the game playing out exactly as it is with the Yen romance in place.

But let me hammer this in there AGAIN...even with the above 'fix'...BOTH romance options need more private time later in the game. I've said there are two natural locations for it, for BOTH women; Dandelion's and on the boat in Skelliga later. Two more for both of them and I think the game would have felt more organic...at least to me.

 

[vTemeria]

Incidentally, has anyone NOT done the last wish quest and seen what happens? I don't really want to do a whole playthrough just to find out, but it would be cool if your Triss romance was doomed somehow if you didn't break the djinn spell.

I completely forgot about that quest and I intended to romance both. But I got the Triss ending.

I think Yen either broke the spell on her own or it was left intact leaving the Triss ending a bit ambiguous because that would mean Geralt and Yen are still connected.

 

[Trireme]

Triss also saved Geralt during the Thanedd Coup when he was beaten to a pulp. She refused to leave him and took him through a portal to Brokilon with the aid of Tissaia de Vries.

Just re-read that book recently, and the Thanedd massacre has all sorts of craziness from characters we meet in W3. Keira Metz gets thrown out a window and lands on Geralt, who carries her to safety but then abandons her to go find Ciri. Geralt cuts down Dijkstra's men and breaks Dijkstra's leg. Triss blinds/immobilizes Geralt to keep the other conspirators from killing him. Philippa (changed into an owl) claws out a sorcerer's eyes to help Geralt and Ciri make a run for it. And then an already-wounded Triss drags a mostly-dead Geralt away to safety after he loses the fight with Vilgefortz.