The Triss content and the inconsistency of our romance's choice

[Costa417]

The point is that if you do all of Novigrad first and get the Triss lighthouse scene, you're going to be waiting a LONG LONG LONG time before you see Triss again at the fountain.

Also it makes sense from a story standpoint since in the beginning we're led to believe that Geralt has been trying to find Yen for quite some time. Which makes me think Geralt would probably go to Skellige the first opportunity he can to see Yen and sort out his feelings for her first, before coming back to see Triss.

The issue for me is actually when KM starts. It was fine for me when geralt and triss splits up after the lighthouse, deciding to meet at KM.

It's at KM that things starts to get fu*ked up. The kiss, triss is not there, no acknoledge of the world around you ecc.. all the things we already spoke about

 

[bogu5law]

• Ciri really don't care about if Geralt is with Yen (Ciri's "mum") or Triss (Ciri's "older sister") or neither of them

If you romance with Yen and Triss, only one character noticed problem of Geralt, Yen, Triss, Ciri relation (at least in polish version) and this is not Ciri. That was Filippa in The Sun Stone quest. She said something like that: "they pretend to be familly, Geralt - dad, Yen - mum, Triss - sister but Triss only wait to jump to Geralt's bed and that situation will have bad influence on Ciri". But it doesn't... Ciri don't care about relation between Geralt, Yen and Triss, she don't care about Triss at all. She cares about Skjall and other charackters which helped her but don't care about problems in relation in her "nearest family" although she mention her childhood with Geralt and Yen.

 

[AdamSnow]

CD Projekt just reached Master Troll Achievement.

https://twitter.com/witchergame/status/608672542547562496

Also, everyone who has a twitter account, go for it. Don't let TeamYen win !

They already did, 3 years ago - if they didn't this thread would not have existed.

We are here because something is missing - not because we simply want more, remember that.

 

[Costa417]

If you romance with Yen and Triss, only one character noticed problem of Geralt, Yen, Triss, Ciri relation (at least in polish version) and this is not Ciri. That was Filippa in The Sun Stone quest. She said something like that: "they pretend to be familly, Geralt - dad, Yen - mum, Triss - sister but Triss only wait to jump to Geralt's bed and that situation will have bad influence on Ciri". But it doesn't... Ciri don't care about relation between Geralt, Yen and Triss, she don't care about Triss at all. She cares about Skjall and other charackters which helped her but don't care about problems in relation in her "nearest family" although she mention her childhood with Geralt and Yen.

Exactly

 

[Riddlin]

Doesn't the scene at the fountain with Triss seeing the future in the water play after Novigrad and Kaer Morhen?

When you look at pure romance content alone, Triss and Yen got rougly the same amount of content, with Yen getting 1 extra kiss scene and 1 extra sex scene.

Yes, Yen got a little more romance content, but both romances could have been handled better.


Edit: Nevermind I forgot about the kiss scene with Triss at the masked ball. So scratch what I said. The only thing Yen got extra that Triss didn't get was 1 extra sex scene.

Well I am under the firm belief that more be better! As you say, if they are even minus one sex scene then they should add one for Triss after they meet back up. AND I think they should add something else for either/both, however you say it...near the end. It doesn't half to be a sex scene it could just be a short hour to talk or relax...it would be the, "put it all in perspective" moment.

As I see it, Geralt is an incredibly passionate man who loves Yen in ways only the books could properly express...to really convey that to a person playing a video game, there has to be scenes like we got on the boat, post Last Wish. And I think they should be staggered throughout the story. There are places for that with Yen in Act 3. I think it would slow the pace and let the player catch his breath and think on it a bit.

For Triss, the argument isn't 'did she get unfairly hosed in the content' department, as you have pointed out, its virtually the same as Yen, they owe Geralt one more bedding of Triss but then its all good, BUT, I know from reading your posts on the subject, you are critical of this topic. But what I believe is that since Triss gets all her best stuff much earlier and in a tight package(wow that could be taken...anyway), her and Geralt should have something more, later.

I will remind, you can romance Triss and get ALL those great scenes and still send her packing at the end...I did THEN you go with Yen and get another series of goodies...WHY not let the person who wants to be totally into Triss get a little more later on too?

I also think there are good reasons for Yen to have more as well...she is Geralt's "Lover of Yore" and it seems like it would only be fair to see those who want to respect book canon, be rewarded too.

EDITED: Sorry about the rambling nature of my posts today...not at the top of my game.

 

[hawkeyesforever]

The issue for me is actually when KM starts. It was fine for me when geralt and triss splits up after the lighthouse, deciding to meet at KM.

It's at KM that things starts to get fu*ked up. The kiss, triss is not there, no acknoledge of the world around you ecc.. all the things we already spoke about

I agree with you completely, that's where the problems really start for me too. In a game about choices, the lack of Triss content from KM onwards (except for the fountain scene) just makes it seem like your choice didn't matter, and it just doesn't sit well with me.

Same could probably be said somewhat about Yen from KM onwards as well but the issues with Triss content are more glaring.

 

[Riddlin]

So in my second PT, I came across with something new or something that I didn't notice before. I don't remember any scene where Geralt says "Good to see you again Triss" after we bring Ciri to KM when I romanced Triss, now I romanced Yen and I got a scene where Geralt says "Good to see you again Triss" which is replied by Triss with "Thank Yen, she's the one who invited me". If my memory is not tricking me the game basically acknowledges Triss when you romance Yen btw her reaction to the kiss is practically the same even when you romance Yen.

Yes, and I think there in-lies the issue. It is almost like the default romance setting IS Yen...but we are hammering on it and the fix is SO simple. CDPR is gonna work on this for another year and we will be amazed at how they pull all these loose ends and snapped dialog threads together! I really have a good feeling about it!

---------- Updated at 02:31 PM ----------

CD Projekt just reached Master Troll Achievement.

https://twitter.com/witchergame/status/608672542547562496

Also, everyone who has a twitter account, go for it. Don't let TeamYen win !

No twittering in my house...but, got gettem Ray!

 

[zaskar70]

Doesn't the scene at the fountain with Triss seeing the future in the water play after Novigrad and Kaer Morhen?

When you look at pure romance content alone, Triss and Yen got rougly the same amount of content, with Yen getting 1 extra kiss scene and 1 extra sex scene.

Yes, Yen got a little more romance content, but both romances could have been handled better.



Edit: Nevermind I forgot about the kiss scene with Triss at the masked ball. So scratch what I said. The only thing Yen got extra that Triss didn't get was 1 extra sex scene.

They handled both romance choices badly IMO, Yen fans have to play pretty much the first half of the game with no Yen and Triss fans have to play the second half of the game with no Triss. I would argue that having your romance choice be present more for the second half of the game is better but it sucks either way imo. At least Yen fans got the opening cinematic and the royal palace at the start, Triss fans get zip after the fountain scene, cant even explore dialogue with triss on the boat lol.

Say you have never played the Witcher before? your confronted with a seemingly cold business like Yen at the start of the game then you get to play with Sweet charming bubbly Triss then your forced to make your romance choice without ever seeing Yen again aside from the opening cinematic and that not so sweet scene at the royal palace.

The only thing that makes sense with the way they did it is if the original game had no choice and they had Triss sail away to Kovir only coming back to Kaer Morhen after Yen asks her to later on. I firmly believe if they had really intended to have the player make a choice between Triss and Yen each of the women would have had equal screen time leading up to the moment you had to make a decision, otherwise how would someone new to the games/universe be able to form an opinion to make such a decision.

They have the game set up for getting Triss out of the way early then focusing on Yen, what they failed to consider is how large a fan favorite Triss was/is. Or they realized it way too late in development to really do much about it without delaying the game.

So instead of doing it right like they claim to do or they wont do it at all, we get a disjointed story with large inconsistencies as far as the romance options are concerned.

1. Players are forced into making a romance choice before ever really meeting Yennefer.

2. The Triss romance story doesn't make sense in a lot of places after Novigrad.

3. Triss feels hollow and lifeless with no dialogue after Novigrad. (well, well, well)

It is clear at least to me that the Triss romance option was shoehorned in after the fact.

 

[Riddlin]

ahahaha

Yeah that stuff just invites jack-holes! <shaking head> Kids and their newfangled technology..."DAMN KIDS...get outta my yard!

---------- Updated at 02:41 PM ----------

The issue for me is actually when KM starts. It was fine for me when geralt and triss splits up after the lighthouse, deciding to meet at KM.

It's at KM that things starts to get fu*ked up. The kiss, triss is not there, no acknoledge of the world around you ecc.. all the things we already spoke about

YES! Its stuff like that, as simple as you just put that, that can help DRILL the view point to CDPR! Thats why I keep writing and writing...the more succinctly we can get out point the better!

---------- Updated at 02:51 PM ----------

@zaskar70

I've expressed this before, I believe the thought to romance Triss was added LATE in the production...I think they had Triss originally sailing away no matter your response. I am sure a writer slapped himself on the head in a brainstorming session and cried out, "Ok, ok...so, get this, Dijkstra tells Geralt hey 'turn around' and Geralts all like, 'really think I'm gonna fall for that...' well when he does he sees Triss walking back! Wouldn't that be AWESOME!!!"

I don't think CDPR really anticipated the Triss love...and they really should have!

 

[luc0s]

They handled both romance choices badly IMO, Yen fans have to play pretty much the first half of the game with no Yen and Triss fans have to play the second half of the game with no Triss. I would argue that having your romance choice be present more for the second half of the game is better but it sucks either way imo. At least Yen fans got the opening cinematic and the royal palace at the start, Triss fans get zip after the fountain scene, cant even explore dialogue with triss on the boat lol.

Say you have never played the Witcher before? your confronted with a seemingly cold business like Yen at the start of the game then you get to play with Sweet charming bubbly Triss then your forced to make your romance choice without ever seeing Yen again aside from the opening cinematic and that not so sweet scene at the royal palace.

The only thing that makes sense with the way they did it is if the original game had no choice and they had Triss sail away to Kovir only coming back to Kaer Morhen after Yen asks her to later on. I firmly believe if they had really intended to have the player make a choice between Triss and Yen each of the women would have had equal screen time leading up to the moment you had to make a decision, otherwise how would someone new to the games/universe be able to form an opinion to make such a decision.

They have the game set up for getting Triss out of the way early then focusing on Yen, what they failed to consider is how large a fan favorite Triss was/is. Or they realized it way too late in development to really do much about it without delaying the game.

So instead of doing it right like they claim to do or they wont do it at all, we get a disjointed story with large inconsistencies as far as the romance options are concerned.

1. Players are forced into making a romance choice before ever really meeting Yennefer.

2. The Triss romance story doesn't make sense in a lot of places after Novigrad.

3. Triss feels hollow and lifeless with no dialogue after Novigrad. (well, well, well)

It is clear at least to me that the Triss romance option was shoehorned in after the fact.

Absolutely right.

I don't see anyone who hasn't read the books choosing Yen over Triss, unless they do the Skellige quest before Triss's quests in Novigrad (which is possible, but highly unlikely). I see it happening with all my friends. My friends who read the books mostly flock to Yennefer because they know her from the books, while my friends who never read the books all stick to Triss without even considering Yen.

Looking at the forums, I feel the sentiment is pretty much the same here as well. The vast majority of the non-book readers flock to Triss without even considering Yen while the book readers are more evenly split between Triss and Yen. This does not surprise me at all.

I think it's good that CDPR introduces Yen right from the start of TW3, but then removing her from the game until you reach lvl 16 and head to Skellige was really not a smart idea, especially not considering you can spend plenty of time with Triss before you reach Skellige. Heck you can even complete her entire side-story before you reach lvl 16. Then you have to choose whether you want to romance Triss or not before you've even seen Yen for a 2nd time! Obviously many people romance Triss at that point and then head to Skellige.

At Skellige you FINALLY get to meet Yen and build your romance with her there. Some people might like Yen and romance her as well, thinking they'll be able to break up with Triss or sort things out later. Nope, not gonna happen! You won't ever see Triss until it's already too late and you're already locked into the threesome ending in which both ladies dumped you.

Many of my friends who liked both Yen AND Triss got the threesome ending which pissed them off royally.

I think that's the worst about how the romances are handled. First you spend an entire arc with Triss, then you spend an entire arc with Yen and at no point do you get the to see the two ladies together at the same time. Unless you already made up your mind at the start of the game who you wanted to romance, chances are you're gonna end up with the threesome ending and feel duped. I think that is really poor game design and possibly the worst part of how the romances are handled in TW3.

 

[Costa417]

I've expressed this before, I believe the thought to romance Triss was added LATE in the production...I think they had Triss originally sailing away no matter your response. I am sure a writer slapped himself on the head in a brainstorming session and cried out, "Ok, ok...so, get this, Dijkstra tells Geralt hey 'turn around' and Geralts all like, 'really think I'm gonna fall for that...' well when he does he sees Triss walking back! Wouldn't that be AWESOME!!!"

I don't think CDPR really anticipated the Triss love...and they really should have!

I agree with you. Im just astonished they thought no one wouldnt have noticed that big empty space left, especially since Triss was in W1 and she had an even more impact on the story in the W2

 

[hawkeyesforever]

Absolutely right.

I don't see anyone who hasn't read the books choosing Yen over Triss, unless they do the Skellige quest before Triss's quests in Novigrad (which is possible, but highly unlikely). I see it happening with all my friends. My friends who read the books mostly flock to Yennefer because they know her from the books, while my friends who never read the books all stick to Triss without even considering Yen.

Looking at the forums, I feel the sentiment is pretty much the same here as well. The vast majority of the non-book readers flock to Triss without even considering Yen while the book readers are more evenly split between Triss and Yen. This does not surprise me at all.

I think it's good that CDPR introduces Yen right from the start of TW3, but then removing her from the game until you reach lvl 16 and head to Skellige was really not a smart idea, especially not considering you can spend plenty of time with Triss before you reach Skellige. Heck you can even complete her entire side-story before you reach lvl 16. Then you have to choose whether you want to romance Triss or not before you've even seen Yen for a 2nd time! Obviously many people romance Triss at that point and then head to Skellige.

At Skellige you FINALLY get to meet Yen and build your romance with her there. Some people might like Yen and romance her as well, thinking they'll be able to break up with Triss or sort things out later. Nope, not gonna happen! You won't ever see Triss until it's already too late and you're already locked into the threesome ending in which both ladies dumped you.

Many of my friends who liked both Yen AND Triss got the threesome ending which pissed them off royally.

I think that's the worst about how the romances are handled. First you spend an entire arc with Triss, then you spend an entire arc with Yen and at no point do you get the to see the two ladies together at the same time. Unless you already made up your mind at the start of the game who you wanted to romance, chances are you're gonna end up with the threesome ending and feel duped. I think that is really poor game design and possibly the worst part of how the romances are handled in TW3.

I agree with you completely. I think CDPR did this on purpose unfortunately though. They wanted to force you to make a choice by giving Triss/Yen Novigrad/Skellige respectively and then making you choose.

I would have liked to have seen more interaction between Triss/Yen to be honest, because aren't they supposed to be good friends? Maybe a couple quests with Triss over in Skellige, and Yen over in Novigrad somehow. It really is poor game design to be forced to make a decision without having all the information, and by the time you have all the information it's possible you chose both and there's absolutely no recourse later on for choosing both and you end up alone as the only option.

Both romances do have issues. I mean sure you don't see Yen until Skellige which is level 16, but you have the intro so it doesn't seem quite so long, although Velen is a huge area along with Novigrad. In the same way, after the lighthouse scene you don't see Triss for a long time either, and you don't have the benefit of seeing Triss earlier on in the game either.

It's just also a big problem for people who chose Triss because it doesn't seem to matter much once you actually choose her. Yen has some of the same issues in Act 3 that Triss does as well, except Yen benefits from an additional intimate scene in KM which makes it seem like , "Hey, Geralt/Yen actually are lovers." The Triss/Geralt somewhat captures that too, but it seems odd that Triss would be missing from KM when she tells Geralt that she'd meet him there.

I'm in favor of giving both ladies more content. Yen simply because this is the first game where we actually see her, so she needs more screentime because she's new. Triss simply because if you do choose her, there's very little reward later on for choosing her and nobody knows about your choice.

 

[zaskar70]

Absolutely right.

I don't see anyone who hasn't read the books choosing Yen over Triss, unless they do the Skellige quest before Triss's quests in Novigrad (which is possible, but highly unlikely). I see it happening with all my friends. My friends who read the books mostly flock to Yennefer because they know her from the books, while my friends who never read the books all stick to Triss without even considering Yen.

Looking at the forums, I feel the sentiment is pretty much the same here as well. The vast majority of the non-book readers flock to Triss without even considering Yen while the book readers are more evenly split between Triss and Yen. This does not surprise me at all.

I think it's good that CDPR introduces Yen right from the start of TW3, but then removing her from the game until you reach lvl 16 and head to Skellige was really not a smart idea, especially not considering you can spend plenty of time with Triss before you reach Skellige. Heck you can even complete her entire side-story before you reach lvl 16. Then you have to choose whether you want to romance Triss or not before you've even seen Yen for a 2nd time! Obviously many people romance Triss at that point and then head to Skellige.

At Skellige you FINALLY get to meet Yen and build your romance with her there. Some people might like Yen and romance her as well, thinking they'll be able to break up with Triss or sort things out later. Nope, not gonna happen! You won't ever see Triss until it's already too late and you're already locked into the threesome ending in which both ladies dumped you.

Many of my friends who liked both Yen AND Triss got the threesome ending which pissed them off royally.

I think that's the worst about how the romances are handled. First you spend an entire arc with Triss, then you spend an entire arc with Yen and at no point do you get the to see the two ladies together at the same time. Unless you already made up your mind at the start of the game who you wanted to romance, chances are you're gonna end up with the threesome ending and feel duped. I think that is really poor game design and possibly the worst part of how the romances are handled in TW3.

The reason why this happens though is because they never intended to let us Romance Triss.

There was no issue with the player not getting to know Yennefer enough before making a choice because there was no choice to be made.

They clearly for some insane reason way way way underestimated the importance of Triss to a lot of fans as Geralt's primary love interest even though it was their doing by building her character up so much in the previous games.

They wrote the whole story and built most of the game before someone over at CDPR got a clue and they realized they needed to make Triss vs Yen a player choice not a CDPR choice, but it was way too late to do it right at that point, in fact the whole story and game flow would have had to be re done.

So what we got was a Triss romance shoehorned into a story that was written and a game flow that was designed without it, thats why it feels so off.

 

[klungi]

I agree with you. Im just astonished they thought no one wouldnt have noticed that big empty space left, especially since Triss was in W1 and she had an even more impact on the story in the W2

It annoys me that the game doesn't remember if I saved Triss or not in the second game. Surely that should have some impact on Geralt's relationship with Triss?

 

[wright1978]

The issue for me is actually when KM starts. It was fine for me when geralt and triss splits up after the lighthouse, deciding to meet at KM.

It's at KM that things starts to get fu*ked up. The kiss, triss is not there, no acknoledge of the world around you ecc.. all the things we already spoke about

The split at the lighthouse is fine just as Yen's split in Skellige is fine. It's when you get to Kaer Morhen and it becomes obvious that the game wants to pretend the Triss choice doesn't exist and focus solely on Yen. It's a real kick in the teeth as they went to all the trouble of crafting separate Kaer Morhen sequences for romanced Yen but then the focus of the separate scenes for those who ended the relationship still has focus on Yen alone. Then you get the kiss which is just the extra lazy kick in the gut to the earlier Kaer Morhen scenes.

 

[Costa417]

It annoys me that the game doesn't remember if I saved Triss or not in the second game. Surely that should have some impact on Geralt's relationship with Triss?

I think triss should have react differently if you saved her (i saved her as well). The actual reaction of triss when you met her, it's like you chose Iorveth or Roche over her. That would have made sense

 

[hawkeyesforever]

The split at the lighthouse is fine just as Yen's split in Skellige is fine. It's when you get to Kaer Morhen and it becomes obvious that the game wants to pretend the Triss choice doesn't exist and focus solely on Yen. It's a real kick in the teeth as they went to all the trouble of crafting separate Kaer Morhen sequences for romanced Yen but then the focus of the separate scenes for those who ended the relationship still has focus on Yen alone. Then you get the kiss which is just the extra lazy kick in the gut to the earlier Kaer Morhen scenes.

Bingo. The fountain scene with Triss is beautiful, but a part of me thinks the mindset was this. "Oops, we gave Yen an intimate scene with Geralt upon going back to Koer Morhen, we better give something to the Triss fans because we didn't give Triss anything upon Geralt arriving back at Kaer Morhen."

While the fountain scene was nice with the kiss and discussing the future, I think something needed to be included for Triss with Geralt at Koer Morhen.

That and Yen kissing Geralt anyways with Triss looking even though you chose Triss just seems like a punch to the gut saying, "Hey, you made the wrong choice."

 

[Costa417]

The split at the lighthouse is fine just as Yen's split in Skellige is fine. It's when you get to Kaer Morhen and it becomes obvious that the game wants to pretend the Triss choice doesn't exist and focus solely on Yen. It's a real kick in the teeth as they went to all the trouble of crafting separate Kaer Morhen sequences for romanced Yen but then the focus of the separate scenes for those who ended the relationship still has focus on Yen alone. Then you get the kiss which is just the extra lazy kick in the gut to the earlier Kaer Morhen scenes.

I completely agree with you.

And the kiss scene without repercussions is just unacceptable for me

 

[zaskar70]

@zaskar70

I've expressed this before, I believe the thought to romance Triss was added LATE in the production...I think they had Triss originally sailing away no matter your response. I am sure a writer slapped himself on the head in a brainstorming session and cried out, "Ok, ok...so, get this, Dijkstra tells Geralt hey 'turn around' and Geralts all like, 'really think I'm gonna fall for that...' well when he does he sees Triss walking back! Wouldn't that be AWESOME!!!"

I don't think CDPR really anticipated the Triss love...and they really should have!

It's really bizarre to me that the creators of The Witcher 1 and 2 didn't anticipate the love for Triss, a character THEY billed as THE female lead of their series.

 

[wright1978]

Bingo. The fountain scene with Triss is beautiful, but a part of me thinks the mindset was this. "Oops, we gave Yen an intimate scene with Geralt upon going back to Koer Morhen, we better give something to the Triss fans because we didn't give Triss anything upon Geralt arriving back at Kaer Morhen."

While the fountain scene was nice with the kiss and discussing the future, I think something needed to be included for Triss with Geralt at Koer Morhen.

That and Yen kissing Geralt anyways with Triss looking even though you chose Triss just seems like a punch to the gut saying, "Hey, you made the wrong choice."

I've come to the conclusion that the easiest fix would be to give Triss a dedicated Kaer Morhen arrival sequence between ugly baby and before you leave Kaer Morhen for Brothers in arms. Give Triss a kiss there for those who romanced Triss alone, a few lines with Geralt and the witchers and maybe even a exchange of heated words with Yen. Something that acknowledges the relationship, filling the void that exists in the base game. Do that and neutralise the later kiss into a warm hug or a peck and whilst Kaer Morhen wouldn't be perfect it would be much more acceptable.