The Triss content and the inconsistency of our romance's choice

[C0bR]

I'm sorry, good sir, but my waifu is Quen!

I've certainly got a stronger relationship with Quen than with Triss:troll:

 

[AdamSnow]

I've certainly got a stronger relationship with Quen than with Triss:troll:

So the fact that you've addressed only a joke comment by @Ashii and not any of the following replies to your "argument":

finally a point.

The content that is there right now, just doesn't correlates with our decisions.

Just one example:
If you don't go for Triss she'll leave to Kovir and appear right before the battle;

If you do go for Triss, what happens? I bet you can guess it! THE SAME THING. - Although she says the opposite

This is what bothers us, again, our fundamental argument is not "add more Triss" (which we would welcome) but "make Triss actions and the world around us (commentary) make sense and not feel as if we made an incorrect choice"

Btw the developers are big boys (and girls) and if they disagree with us (and with my personal interactions with them it's exactly the opposite) they'll just ignore us

So because CDPR shafted Shani, its okay to also shaft Triss. That argument simply doesn't hold water. With that reasoning they can cross off any character, to hell with consistency and community expectations. That's simply not how you make a successful game.



You can't imagine that because that is how they wrote the story. If they had written the story completely differently, you'd feel completely different. I think you're forgetting CDPR actually decides what the story and themes in the games are.
You seem to have an extremely romantic view on game writing: writers write what they like, community be damned. That's simply not how it works. It's suppose to be a give and take relationship. The most popular stories usually sprout forth from a healthy relationship between community and company(writers) and/or play in on market demands.

While I agree many companies pander too much to the community and this is what 'ruins' some games. That problem won't be fixed by simply ignoring everything the community sais and simply write whatever the hell the writers want to write.

But I already wrote something similar to one of your posts in another thread, so I'll keep it at that. One last thing though: not everything is realistically secondary to the story.

In TW2 we didn't have any romance choice, but we have it now, in TW3. We have two good thougtful characters, with thier own history and personality, Game give to us an equivalent choice, but Triss has less interactions with Geralt, less quests and communicating with other characters, They are not on equal terms.
Yes, we need Yen in the storyline, we need to introduce new(for games) character, but it doesn't mean that we have to let Triss just go away


This isn't "call to arms", people just speak their mind. That's what forums need. And CDPR are humans too, with their own vision of "right" content. Here we only want to saw what everyone of us hoped to see ingame
PS. I think my text wall reads awful

It's a really tricky subject to discuss. I remember beating Mass Effect 3 and hopping on the Bioware forums where I saw the absolute firestorm about the ending. It was completely over the top and that most certainly got the attention of the developers, most likely in a bad way. Having seen how the posts went from concern to anger until a zealous mob atmosphere erupted made me pretty wary about subjects like these. I believe I've picked my words carefully and I have consciously tried to avoid "applying pressure". Furthermore, in my opinion, this thread so far has been handled in a good way by the OP, which makes me want to post here to add my 2 cents for what they're worth.

I can only speak for myself and it's pretty easy for people to ball together threads like these where posts can be coloured by emotional attachments, sometimes excessively so, but that's not been the case here. There's a lot of valid views represented here. And so, just to quickly reiterate what I said previously, these stories hit different emotional chords in different people. I was happy with what I received out of the story and Yen because that's how I wanted to play, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement as I see it.

Romances in games tend to be super shallow and quite boring, the blueprints for some really interesting character dynamics are already in place with these characters thanks to the books. For me it feels like a missed opportunity to elevate it all to an overall more compelling story. One that could still be revisited since the majority of the work is already been done. I would've found exploring the emotional fallout character development something different and unique.

Having said that, I firmly believe that exploring the romance element of Yen vs Triss and tying that into not only Geralt's ending in a bigger way, but also bleed into the main story, would've made a more compelling experience. Not just for one crowd but for everyone invested in the resolution of Geralt's story.

I don't know man, you are acting like our main goal is to kick off Yenn and replace her by Triss, that's not the point. The devs wanted us to save Ciri with her "mother figure" : Yenn, and it is okay, it's "normal". But they also wanted to create a game where the player makes decisions, and the main point about a decision is its consequences. So if some players decided to go with Triss it should have an influence, maybe not a lot of influence on the main quest, but some influence.

And for the moment, choose Triss doesn't have much influence : the lighthouse, the scene with the fontain, and maybe few more but that's all. The environment, the people around are acting like : we don't care. This is the point, if you want the player to make choices, then show him the consequences, so yeah we are asking more content, or change the existing content, with Triss to show us that our choice care.

And this could be done by change little things in the main quest, not the structure of it, just some things, but it can also be done by adding/changing things around the player, like the conversations with his mates, some side quests, ect... I don't have to be only in the main quest, in "the Yenn's private garden".

Am I to assume you are done hating?

 

[Cormyr]

It's the other stuff that I want and it's this that the game is lacking so heavily in.

Well, it's not that bad honestly. Just compare the amount of dialogue we get with Triss in TW3 to TW2 - it's quite a bit more than what we've got in Act 1 and at the end of Act 3 of the previous game. The problem with TW3 is, however, that the game as a whole is almost twice as long as TW2 and that we don't get many more scenes later on. The scenes we DO get are so damn sweet, though.

 

[xE1NSTE1Nx2049]

I've said that - what we have is great. Just feels disconnected, unfinished, incomplete. The romance should be integral with Geralt's story - Ciri is the main focus but the rest of the entire game is shaping his life to fit the narrative you have given him. I'm not saying an entire act devoted to Triss but dammit if I'm going to spend 100+ hours shaping the rest of Geralt's life, I want some more context. A few more dialogues, a quest or two, a love (not sex) scene. I will say that maybe they didn't include some of this stuff to give the player a sense of urgency. Ciri's life is in danger, I get that but if I can spend 35 hours running around Velen killing bandits and blowing up Nekker nests then surely I can't be too rushed.

In real life I consider that one of the bigger decisions someone will ever make is the choice of their significant other. I'm not saying it needs to be on the same level or anything but I am saying it's a hefty decision. Should be treated as such.

that we don't get many more scenes later on

I think this is another complaint that is fair and is talked about quite a bit here. Where did she go? Why do we have to wait until almost the end of the game to see her again? Just kinda feels like she got benched and its not fair to us. We put in the time, we made the choice, we want our choices to matter and for those choices to reflected in the world. I don't want people to ask me how Yen is or about their relationship. In my Witcher game, there is not much of a relationship left but the game refuses to acknowledge this.

---------- Updated at 11:56 AM ----------

Well, it's not that bad honestly.

I don't mean to sound confrontational but were you playing the same game as us? It has been stated time and again - Triss disappears and after that it's like the rest of the world forgot she existed. She shows up at Kaer Morhen (at Yennefer's behest by the way even though I was the one that invited her) and has very little interaction after that. She doesn't really interact with the other characters at all, nobody acknowledges her or you picking her. The only major Geralt interaction is the scene with the feather at the fountain. That scene is sweet and wonderful but in like 1 minute their future is planned, no more information for us. Why can't you go back to the Chameleon and ask her about the house, about the job, about Kovir, about being a Witcher there? Just saying it was a lot of missed opportunities on the Triss side of things and seeing as its the last game it just bums me out. That's why we take to the forums, to voice our displeasure - maybe we will be vindicated. I feel like it is futile to just sit and wait and hope though.

 

[Strangerxxx56]

One more moment.
I dont understand why romance line with yenifer much more alife<then Triss romance life.Why after choosing triss Yenifer and gerald still act like lovers(kiss in Kaer Morhen)and so on.
i hate yenifer,but i like Triss.i dont whant to see Yenifer talking with geralt like her lover even after my choice.
Ok before wine to my side.i ve read all books and still i dislike Yenifer and like triss.

 

[Madoga]

The only major Geralt interaction is the scene with the feather at the fountain. That scene is sweet and wonderful but in like 1 minute their future is planned, no more information for us.

Completely agree with everything you wrote above, but I'd like to add something to the part quoted above.
The (non combat) scene Triss + Geralt are in before this one, is the one where Yen kisses Geralt in front of Triss. So we go from Yen Kissing Geralt, to 'planning' a whole future with Triss.
That's just beyond weird if you ask me. I'd even go so far as to call it bad writing. It just feels like they either cut out a lot of Triss content. or it was added after the main storyline was completed.

 

[xE1NSTE1Nx2049]

Why after choosing Triss do Yennefer and Geralt still act like lovers (kiss in Kaer Morhen) and so on.

This is one of the problems voiced here quite vocally. For a game so choice/consequence heavy, why does this particular choice (an important and difficult one I might add), not have any consequences. Nobody cares that Geralt picked Triss, nobody comments on it. That's why a lot of people say the game pushed you toward being with Yennefer. Like Triss is the wrong choice and Yennefer is the right choice. That's why this thread exists. Just feels like Triss was an afterthought and she deserves so much more than that especially since it's the last one. If there were another game after this we might be more content to just wait and see but if we can't get some resolution we'll be stuck with what we have (which isn't totally satisfying) forever.

---------- Updated at 12:12 PM ----------

So we go from Yen Kissing Geralt, to 'planning' a whole future with Triss.
That's just beyond weird if you ask me.

Maybe it's a bug. Maybe it automatically defaults to Yen and there's a corrupted file or something. That'd be kinda cool (highly unlikely but cool nonetheless). But yeah you're probably right - it's just poor decision making & bad writing. Which is even weirder to me too - this game is so carefully written, so masterfully scripted at times (I always think of the Baron's story if you give him the chance to tell it - I watched every word in awe) that I ask myself, how could they have let that slip? That's why I joked that maybe it is a bug that doesn't register your decision - seems to be the only feasible explanation for leaving that part in. By the way that moment does not sit right with me at all. If they couldn't have Triss kissing Geralt, I don't think anybody should've been kissing anybody there.

 

[scudstorm]

Maybe it's a bug. Maybe it automatically defaults to Yen and there's a corrupted file or something. That'd be kinda cool (highly unlikely but cool nonetheless). But yeah you're probably right - it's just poor decision making & bad writing. Which is even weirder to me too - this game is so carefully written, so masterfully scripted at times (I always think of the Baron's story if you give him the chance to tell it - I watched every word in awe) that I ask myself, how could they have let that slip?

I'm sure it's NOT a bug. Really, all game had good-written story, but here it looks like someone cut out a huge piece of content and forgot to tie it

 

[xE1NSTE1Nx2049]

I know, it was a joke. I'm sure it's not a bug either but doesn't it seem odd to let something like that slip through while the rest of the story is so expertly crafted? That was really the main point I was trying to get across - just seems weird and it bugs me that that little moment is in there and there isn't a damned thing we can do about it. :ermm:

 

[Sooxzay]

I'm sure it's NOT a bug. Really, all game had good-written story, but here it looks like someone cuted out a huge piece of content and forgot to tie it

Right !

I compare the "bloody baron" quest line with the Triss/Yen romance. Well the baron was an amazing and really deep story telling comparing to the romance its just some "lets bring in some small romance to satisfy"

The thing is: There are people playing Witcher for the first time (Wild Hunt) without playing TW1 and TW2 which means without any knowledge about the whole story.
Those people dont argue much and dont complain about anything relating to the story etc. Why should they? They dont know about the relationship between Yen and Geralt in the books and they dont know about the relationship between Triss and Geralt in previous games.

So what Im about to say is that lets say not only but most of the people complaining about the story and romance and the lonely ending etc. are the real true fans from the beginning. The people who started with TW1 and some of them read the books. Those people actually care about that because the romance in TW2 was more intense that in TW3. So they know that CDPR could have done that way better since TW2 had such a beautiful romance story if you went for it.

And also I dont understand why some people here still try to compare the books with the game. Why? It makes absolutely no sense. What do you read in the books?

"Oh Geralt is wandering trough the forest collecting some herbs for alchemy and discover secret places like caves. Found a treasure with gold and a silver sword and some alchemy ingredients."

NO! The books are way more about story telling and conversations between people and friends of Geralt. Compare the TW2 with a book cmon lets try that:
Geralt made it out of the prison at the beginning of TW2 and traveled with Triss and Roche to Flotsam. How do they show that? With a 30 second cut scene where Dandelion was telling about the journey. And now bring that little scene into a book. Exactly that wouldn't be like 30 seconds cut scene. It would be atleast like 30 pages full of conversations between Geralt and Roche, Geralt and Triss etc.

So please stop compare the game with the books. This is ridiculous.

 

[Jou05]

Completely agree with everything you wrote above, but I'd like to add something to the part quoted above.
The (non combat) scene Triss + Geralt are in before this one, is the one where Yen kisses Geralt in front of Triss. So we go from Yen Kissing Geralt, to 'planning' a whole future with Triss.
That's just beyond weird if you ask me. I'd even go so far as to call it bad writing. It just feels like they either cut out a lot of Triss content. or it was added after the main storyline was completed.

The triss romance was clearly an afterthought I wouldn't be surprised if they added it after the main storyline was complete
It certainly feels like it and explains all the bad writing

 

[xE1NSTE1Nx2049]

Geralt made it out of the prison at the beginning of TW2 and traveled with Triss and Roche to Flotsam. How do they show that? With a 30 second cut scene where Dandelion was telling about the journey. And now bring that little scene into a book. Exactly that wouldn't be like 30 seconds cut scene. It would be atleast like 30 pages full of conversations between Geralt and Roche, Geralt and Triss etc.

I don't think it has anything to with the length or the method of storytelling. The characters in the game are only based off of the characters in the books - they have been developed on their own and are expected to be different at this point. That, at least for me, is why the book argument holds no water.

 

[Sooxzay]

I don't think it has anything to with the length or the method of storytelling. The characters in the game are only based off of the characters in the books - they have been developed on their own and are expected to be different at this point. That, at least for me, is why the book argument holds no water.

So if I get your point you want to say that CDPR wanted those characters to become other persons or lets say develop regarding to their minds and what they feel and how they act? Would make sense. But even then I would ask myself why Geralt and Yen still act like "forever you my lovely even if u told Triss that u love her"

 

[xE1NSTE1Nx2049]

Well given as I don't work for them I can't answer with certainty. I would imagine though that it has something to do with the fact that they have all the history and the history is a big part of who they are now. So they couldn't realistically create the Geralt for these games without including that bit. Basically whatever happens after the amnesia in the first game, is real and true development from CDPR. They would likely want you to see the characters change as this can be an effective story-telling method. Lots of well-rounded characters.

That's why it doesn't matter. Yennefer in the games is only based off of the Yennefer in the books. That's where the similarities stop though. Same for Ciri, same for Geralt, same for Triss.

 

[TrickJericho]

I don't think it has anything to with the length or the method of storytelling. The characters in the game are only based off of the characters in the books - they have been developed on their own and are expected to be different at this point. That, at least for me, is why the book argument holds no water.

Not to mention I bet less than half the people who played all 3 games even read the books so it kind of makes the book argument meaningless.

---------- Updated at 01:06 PM ----------

So if I get your point you want to say that CDPR wanted those characters to become other persons or lets say develop regarding to their minds and what they feel and how they act? Would make sense. But even then I would ask myself why Geralt and Yen still act like "forever you my lovely even if u told Triss that u love her"

It makes sense he would act that way, at least until he lifts the wish in "The Last Wish" quest. At the beginning he is still under the effects of the wish that is binding Yen and Geralt together as lovers.

 

[vmael]

Ok, So I have just finished the game, and honestly in all the years that I have been playing video games, this probably takes the cake as the best out of all of them. This game took me to highs and lows, especially with that epic battle of Khaer Morhen. What I can't really understand is why do I have a feeling of emptiness inside me? Maybe it's because I chose Triss, I don't really know. But what I'm actually sure of is that after everything that had happened, we deserve a bit more of a closure, don't you think? After everything that happened in the rich story of the game, we get an epilogue shown through artwork flashed for around 5 seconds on the screen? Maybe this dissatisfaction all stems from the fact that I felt that Triss was more of an afterthought in W3, and I do hope that a DLC which shows the interactions that the characters we've grown to love have with one another(especially Triss, since she was the one most left out), just to give us players a sense of both accomplishment and closure to the wonderful story we were enriched in, because honestly, i don't think any ending that can be accomplishment is hardly enough to make most of us satisfied. IMO, coming to that hollow khaer morhen after finishing the game still depresses me.

 

[Cormyr]

I wouldn't be surprised if they added it after the main storyline was complete

As much as I would like to get more scenes and dialogues with Triss, especially later in the game, I just don't think this is anywhere near true. She plays an important role for finding Ciri while you're in Novigrad; infiltrating Menge's headquarters and getting tortured in the process comes to mind, for example.

Don't get me wrong, guys - I'm really sharing your disapproval of how things get handled along certain parts of the main story and later in the game. I just don't think we're doing justice to CDPR by throwing around these kind of conspiracies.

 

[Redemyr]

As much as I would like to get more scenes and dialogues with Triss, especially later in the game, I just don't think this is anywhere near true. She plays an important role for finding Ciri while you're in Novigrad; infiltrating Menge's headquarters and getting tortured in the process comes to mind, for example.

Don't get me wrong, guys - I'm really sharing your disapproval of how things get handled along certain parts of the main story and later in the game. I just don't think we're doing justice to CDPR by throwing around these kind of conspiracies.

It is not a conspiracy, they might have developed the W3 with only Yen as the main LI, as it was the case with Triss in W2. Then realized that might upset some people and so they changed some bits, but couldn't change the whole game without delaying it.

 

[Sooxzay]

As much as I would like to get more scenes and dialogues with Triss, especially later in the game, I just don't think this is anywhere near true. She plays an important role for finding Ciri while you're in Novigrad; infiltrating Menge's headquarters and getting tortured in the process comes to mind, for example.

Don't get me wrong, guys - I'm really sharing your disapproval of how things get handled along certain parts of the main story and later in the game. I just don't think we're doing justice to CDPR by throwing around these kind of conspiracies.

Torture? I just took my sword and slayed everyone in this damn headquarter when they were about to torture her. No way lol. I would rather kill everyone in Novigrad than hear Triss getting tortured !

 

[Jou05]

As much as I would like to get more scenes and dialogues with Triss, especially later in the game, I just don't think this is anywhere near true. She plays an important role for finding Ciri while you're in Novigrad; infiltrating Menge's headquarters and getting tortured in the process comes to mind, for example.

Don't get me wrong, guys - I'm really sharing your disapproval of how things get handled along certain parts of the main story and later in the game. I just don't think we're doing justice to CDPR by throwing around these kind of conspiracies.

I'm talking about the romance not Triss role in the story