May I ask what is your modding experience and for what games zaskar70?
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For a single modder maybe, for a team of professional developers ever so slightly less so.I see a lot of you guy's getting a bit too excited about the next patch and i wish you wouldnt. If any of you had ever done any modding / modeling / texturing etc you would realize that even adding several dialogue options to Triss on the boat in Skellige is not going to be a trivial undertaking.
Each dialogue option will need voice over work then cutscene work doing stop motion animation not to mention the facial expressions, lighting and camera positions. And that's just for her to have some dialogue options on the boat, its not even close to being a quick process to get that done.
Adding her to Kaer Morhen would take month's and several if not all the cutscenes would need to be redone, revoiced etc. Adding more awareness of the choice to be with Triss for other characters would also take a long long time and would also involve new voice work, cutscenes, animations etc etc.
All of this stuff has to be done by hand and it can be mind numbingly tedious and time consuming to do
The only way they could realistically accomplish fixing her romance arc properly would be in an enhanced edition like they did for Witcher 2 other than that I would be amazed if we even got dialogue on the boat any sooner than August and that's the most glaring issue at the moment, or rather the most obvious issue at the moment.
Assuming it's as you suggest, and they don't have any automated system for "cut-scenes" ( I mean the dialogue camera angles and the rest that involved with it ), which seems to me like a HUGE waste of resources, but let's roll with it for the sake of argument - most of the fixes (not additions) we ask for do not require any new additional content, the small ones that do require new content like let say, commentary about Triss could be "out of cut scene" stuff that are said when Geralt is walking with someone or near someone, etc - the "real effort" is mainly in them wanting to do it and considering it as something worth spending money for the voice acting.
We are not underestimating the effort required, and you should not blow it up.
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I'm saying what like it's a bad thing?You say that like its a bad thing I'm confused as to why you thought any of us believed we would get anything before August.
And what is wrong with an EE if it has some fixes in it?
Absolutely nothings wrong with an enhanced edition, it's what i'm hoping for actually as I think it's the only way they will be able to remedy the Triss situation correctly.
Yes. I very much doubt that every cutscene is done by hand as zaskar suggests. Lyp synching is a software I know that. Expressions as in most games are stored and selected. Animations too, every movement in a cutscene using the game engine is not done from scratch using stop motion..For a single modder maybe, for a team of professional developers ever so slightly less so.
Assuming it's as you suggest, and they don't have any automated system for cut-scenes, which seems to me like a HUGE waste of resources, but let's roll with it for the sake of argument - most of the fixes (not additions) we ask for are definitely do not require any new additional content, the small ones that do require new content like let say, commentary about Triss could be "out of cut scene" stuff that are said when Geralt is walking with someone or near someone, etc - the "real effort" is mainly in them wanting to do it and considering it as something worth spending money for the voice acting.
We are not underestimating the effort required, and you surely should not blow it up.
Plus I never envisioned anything fancy like the Party sequence but basic 2-3 NPC standing and talking with minimal movement as "fixes".
In that case it's very little work. Placing light sources and audio files then motionin' it.
Certainly not months worth of work for the entire team.
@zaskar70 Obviously I agree patch 1.07 cannot possibly contain any of this
Mostly the Total war series by Creative Arts. I have 3ds Max which is what most studios use and have done my fair share of modeling and texturing as well.May I ask what is your modding experience and for what games zaskar70?
Bones are bones no matter what game they are in usually the only thing that changes between games is the poly count on the models, the larger the poly count the more detailed the model can be but that also creates more vertices (points between polys) that need to be attached to the bones properly and in such a way that you minimize or eliminate clipping.
The most difficult things to model are organics, fabrics etc its not an easy task to get things attached to the bones in such a way that they "flow" naturally like Geralts Bear Armour bottom when animated, doing that is called rigging.
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No they don't have an automated system for cutscenes, they do it in either 1 of 2 ways, stop motion by manipulating the bones by hand if its a small scene or motion capture using a live model performing the scene.For a single modder maybe, for a team of professional developers ever so slightly less so.
Assuming it's as you suggest, and they don't have any automated system for "cut-scenes" ( I mean the dialogue camera angles and the rest that involved with it ), which seems to me like a HUGE waste of resources, but let's roll with it for the sake of argument - most of the fixes (not additions) we ask for do not require any new additional content, the small ones that do require new content like let say, commentary about Triss could be "out of cut scene" stuff that are said when Geralt is walking with someone or near someone, etc - the "real effort" is mainly in them wanting to do it and considering it as something worth spending money for the voice acting.
We are not underestimating the effort required, and you should not blow it up.
Sources? Or should I trust your word?No they don't have an automated system for cutscenes, they do it in either 1 of 2 ways, stop motion by manipulating the bones by hand if its a small scene or motion capture using a live model performing the scene. [Citation needed]
Either way, I presented a solution to solve your hypothetical problem.
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Maybe try something that is not a strategic game but something like Skyrim? With char skeletons, animations, expressions and such which are indeed stored and easy to use even by modders?Mostly the Total war series by Creative Arts. I have 3ds Max which is what most studios use and have done my fair share of modeling and texturing as well.
Bones are bones no matter what game they are in usually the only thing that changes between games is the poly count on the models, the larger the poly count the more detailed the model can be but that also creates more vertices (points between polys) that need to be attached to the bones properly and in such a way that you minimize or eliminate clipping.
No they don't have an automated system for cutscenes, they do it in either 1 of 2 ways, stop motion by manipulating the bones by hand if its a small scene or motion capture using a live model performing the scene.
I'm 100% sure your generic Gerald talks to standing guy cutscene is not done via stop motion. It would be crazy.
Also your argument about bones and fabrics etc. You realise once they are fixed together they do not need to re-do it by hand for every frame during a cutscene? Just like for the game in motion..
PS: I'm talking about basic dialogue cutscenes. Not unique sequences like the party as I said.
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Well you can research it if you like but there is no automated system in the industry to animate bones, the closest thing to an automated system is doing motion capture.Sources? Or should I trust your word?
Either way, I presented a solution to solve your hypothetical problem.
Here is a video showing how to do facial expressions from a professional 3d design artist, perhaps you will be a bit more amazed at some of the cutscenes and expressions CDPR has done in the Witcher after watching how it is done.
Facial animation
[h=1][/h]
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All those animations, expressions etc that are available to modders in skyrim were done by the devs first.Maybe try something that is not a strategic game but something like Skyrim? With char skeletons, animations, expressions and such which are indeed stored and easy to use even by modders?
I'm 100% sure your generic Gerald talks to standing guy cutscene is not done via stop motion. It would be crazy.
Also your argument about bones and fabrics etc. You realise once they are fixed together they do not need to re-do it by hand for every frame during a cutscene? Just like for the game in motion..
PS: I'm talking about basic dialogue cutscenes. Not unique sequences like the party as I said.
Total War also uses bones (skeletons) meshes, animations etc, its all the same.
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I heard CDPR have their own motion capture studio.the closest thing to an automated system is doing motion capture.
So, let me get this straight, you are practically assuming - based on your total war modding experience I guess - that each and every dialogue in the game is hand crafted by teams of people just sitting there putting camera angles and re-creating animations again and again for each and every NPC dialogue you have?Well you can research it if you like but there is no automated system in the industry to animate bones, the closest thing to an automated system is doing motion capture.
That's a stretch man... like a huge one - unless you give me something more solid - like someone from CDPR actually confirming this or something like that, I would like you to try and not spread misinformation just for the fun of it.
And by the way, I don't know because I don't like acting like I actually know stuff I don't, yet they might be using cloth simulation to simulate the "Geralts Bear Armour bottom". Also, when you use software like ZBrush, then cloth and organics are by far easier to create, for me it's the material & shader setup that I'm still trying to get the hang of.
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Yes, and that's why since they are already created (of course), making a cutscene with Gerald standing in front of Triss with her arms crossed or slightly moving them such and such would take minimal effort past VO.All those animations, expressions etc that are available to modders in skyrim were done by the devs first.
Total War also uses bones (skeletons) meshes, animations etc, its all the same.
Are you really saying that CDPR spent hours-if not days- motion capturing then processing random blacksmith in backwater village for his 1 line of dialogue?
No, they have the char model, software for lipsynch (this is confirmed, it is automated I don't remember the name), basic animations. Or maybe they motioncapture even mouth movement and expressions everytime for every language? I mean why stop there? Maybe every single particle in every cutscene is handplaced too..
As I said an elaborate sequence with unique movements is another story. But once you have said and said anims and clothes and such you can re-create the same one easily.
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I'm not spreading misinformation at all, that's just how they make games. Why do you think it takes 3 to 4 years to build a 200 hour long game? what is it exactly do you think they are doing that whole time?So, let me get this straight, you are practically assuming - based on your total war modding experience I guess - that each and every dialogue in the game is hand crafted by teams of people just sitting there putting camera angles and re-creating animations again and again for each and every NPC dialogue you have?
That's a stretch man... like a huge one - unless you give me something more solid - like someone from CDPR actually confirming this or something like that, I would like you to try and not spread misinformation just for the fun of it.
And by the way, I don't know because I don't like acting like I actually know stuff I don't, yet they might be using cloth simulation to simulate the "Geralts Bear Armour bottom". Also, when you use software like ZBrush, then cloth and organics are fairly easily to create, for me it's the material & shader setup that I'm still trying to get the hang of.
Like i said before you can google game design, animation, modeling etc and see for yourself how it's done. There are no super secret programs that game studios are using to magically create these things =)
All the programs for modeling, animation, world design etc are available to pretty much anyone with the money to purchase them. Industry standards are Photoshop, 3d studio max, maya etc. Most of the major game studios use those programs.
Wow... still at it, really? Have you have been part of a AAA development team? Know what, nevermind, I think I know the answer, either find a proof for what you are saying or let it be. This thread is about Triss content in the Witcher 3 - if you have nothing constructive to say about this issue just start a thread about the technology and development of video games, I bet some people that actually work in the industry will surprise you.I'm not spreading misinformation at all, that's just how they make games. Why do you think it takes 3 to 4 years to build a 200 hour long game? what is it exactly do you think they are doing that whole time?
Like i said before you can google game design, animation, modeling etc and see for yourself how it's done. There are no super secret programs that game studios are using to magically create these things =)
All the programs for modeling, animation, world design etc are available to pretty much anyone with the money to purchase them. Industry standards are Photoshop, 3d studio max, maya etc. Most of the major game studios use those programs.
I'm not going to indulge you in the subject anymore.
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Well the misinformation part it's that every single animation having to be created ex nihilo every time by meticolous handiwork, acting as if 99.9% of the assets aren't already avaliable.I'm not spreading misinformation at all, that's just how they make games.
Anyway this is a great little vid I just found about W3 unique animations:
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbgKiPEBYdU" target="_blank">
The person posting wasn't being negative about your desires to have additional Triss content, he was merely warning that some expectations, in particular those relating to time-frame, may be unrealistic.Wow... still at it, really? Have you have been part of a AAA development team? Know what, nevermind, I think I know the answer,
Attacking anyone who visits this thread and makes comments seen as even mildly negative will NOT advance your cause, so drop the attitude please.
Oh, and looking back over the last few hours, there seem to have been quite a few off-topic conversations. I suggest that you avoid those if you want to keep the thread focussed on your objectives and attract developer attention, rather than moderator attention.
Thanks.
LMAO ok then.... I have already added a lot of constructive posts to this thread, you sounded like you wanted to learn more about game design is all.Wow... still at it, really? Have you have been part of a AAA development team? Know what, nevermind, I think I know the answer, either find a proof for what you are saying or let it be. This thread is about Triss content in the Witcher 3 - if you have nothing constructive to say about this issue just start a thread about the technology and development of video games, I bet some people that actually work in the industry will surprise you.
I'm not going to indulge you in the subject anymore.
I was indulging you with an answer actually but your right this thread is about the issues with Triss and her romance arc.
That was a really interesting video to watch. Very cool.Well the misinformation part it's that every single animation having to be created ex nihilo every time by meticolous handiwork, acting as if 99.9% of the assets aren't already avaliable.
Anyway this is a great little vid I just found about W3 unique animations:
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbgKiPEBYdU" target="_blank">
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