The Triss content and the inconsistency of our romance's choice

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The Triss content and the inconsistency of our romance's choice

  • Dissatisfied from the lack of Triss content and want more

    Votes: 1,194 85.3%
  • I don't care at all

    Votes: 40 2.9%
  • There was enough of Triss in the game

    Votes: 128 9.1%
  • I don't like Triss

    Votes: 38 2.7%

  • Total voters
    1,400
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.If you get to choose between two options, it might indeed not be 'open', but it's still multiple-choice. If one choice is lacking - both plot and content wise - why is that choice there at all? We have a saying here in the Netherlands that roughly translates to: 'do something well, or don't do it at all' - which I feel is perfectly applicable here.

All we are doing is advocating for the second choice to be done well - which is in our opinion not the case at the moment. Just to be clear, it is not a comparative problem. We do not feel Yen is done better, so Triss has to be done better, no. We just want Triss to be done right - she deserves it.
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We have the same saying where I live, Argentina, where we speak spanish.

This is not a not a quality argument whatsoever. No one here is complaining about how the Triss scenes were done. If anything we have nothing but praise for them.
This has to do about quantity, or lack thereof. And how that lack is replaced with scenes from apparently other routes.

Regarding choices and consequences, I can understand (and love) that the unexpected might happen sometimes. A prime example of unforeseen consequences could be the fate of the baron, depending on what you with a certain decision. While you a doing that quest, you have no clue about what might happen. In hindsight though, the results make perfect sense.

Which bring us to Triss and the whole topic idea behind this thread. Take for example the memorable scene at the docks. She is leaving, Sigi asks you if you are going to ask her to stay.

You have three options. Bid her farewell, ask her to stay (which opens another choice for either path) and I love you. So essentially it boils down to two paths.
She stays or not.

Triss has been making her heart stronger so she can try move on. Then Geralt comes along and turns her world upside down again.

And on that port, she's on the verge, wants to stay badly but doesn't know if Geralt will welcome her or if he will return with Yen.

It is literally the moment of truth for both of them.

If you tell her to go, I'll miss you, then she understands their story is finally over. She moves on, goes with the mages to Kovir and starts a new life. Very sad outcome but makes perfect sense.

If you tell her those three words, which apparently Geralt has a very hard time uttering, she stays. She understands this time Geralt has already reunited with Yennefer and yet has still chosen her.

No more deception, amnesia, nothing. Both are aware of that. Geralt knows what Yen fully well means to him, knows what Triss means to him and he chooses Triss. Freely and willingly.

Whatever she felt upon their reunion, Triss is made aware, clearly, that Geralt felt the same. She has her answer. Her feeling are reciprocated. And so she stays with Geralt and bids the mages and whatever alternative life she planning goodbye. Because she is getting what she wants now and doesn't have to move on, she can stay where she'll find happiness.

They go to the lighthouse, share a pleasant conversation, have an intimate moment. And yet, she cannot stay and help him find Ciri (her sister), because, she has shit to do?. Ok, she was leaving on the boat, leaving everything behind, clearly implying she had no unfinished business in this area of the world.

And now that finally her wishes have come true, the man she loves has reciprocated and he is in an important mission to find someone very dear to him, who incidentally happens to be very dear to her as well, she suddenly, can't help. Either I'm missing something very important or this doesn't make sense logically at all.

Anyway, moving on, let's assume she has MORE important stuff to do that she just remembered. And somehow that stuff is more important that staying with the man she loves and finding her sister. Ok, actually I can't assume but let's just continue for the sake of argument.

So she goes on to do that "important stuff" and they agree to meet in Kaer Morhen. Except she goes to Kovir anyway and doesn't return until Yennefer somehow reminds her that there was a situation at home and her help would be welcome. WHAT?

For real, I dare anyone to find a reasonable explanation, in character and within context, for these two things to happen. Even in hindsight, after the epilogue and having seen everything the story has to offer in this regard, I draw a blank.

No unforeseen consequences or information that Geralt wasn't privy at the time.

Only option that could make sense in the two scenarios is that everything she said is a lie and she doesn't really care about Geralt or Ciri, which directly contradicts with both her actions prior to the lighthouse and after the batlle of KM. Not to mention it invalidates the whole arc with her and destroys her character.

Another option that somebody might bring up is that she had to "secure" employment in Kovir as soon as possible and couldn't wait. Not even mentioning the ridiculousness of the idea, that she would somehow prioritize that over risking the lives of both the love of her life and her sister by leaving them alone against an overpowered enemy, that situation "in hindsight." is already answered in the fountain scene.

First, because she explains she had already contacted the king before her whole exodus plan was put in motion. So there was no actual need for her to go.

Second, because she states that even though she would love to get into politics, upon Geralt needing more time she replies, "If you don't want this. I'll turn it down. What I really want is you. To be together." And Geralt then confirms she doesn't have to give up on anything. Another beautiful scene between the two.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, I just wanted to get the point across. What they made, it was perfect. It is what they didn't, creating a hole in the narrative, that's the problem.

---------- Updated at 03:03 AM ----------

Basically my point is that there needs to be case made and not just an outcry for Triss content because you're left sad at the end. It's about creating a pitch to convince the devs AND the rest of the player base and not just about making a lot of noise.

The case is simple, the narrative is flawed and is harming the experience of an otherwise excellent game.
 
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They go to the lighthouse, share a pleasant conversation, have an intimate moment. And yet, she cannot stay and help him find Ciri (her sister), because, she has shit to do?. Ok, they she was leaving on the boat, leaving everything behind, clearly implying she had no unfinished business in this area of the world.

And now that finally her wishes have come true, the man she loves has reciprocated and he is in an important mission to find someone very dear to him, who incidentally happens to be very dear to her as well, she suddenly, can't help. Either I'm missing something very important or this doesn't make sense logically at all.
They go to the lighthouse, share a pleasant conversation, have an intimate moment. And yet, she cannot stay and help him find Ciri (her sister), because, she has shit to do?. Ok, they she was leaving on the boat, leaving everything behind, clearly implying she had no unfinished business in this area of the world.

And now that finally her wishes have come true, the man she loves has reciprocated and he is in an important mission to find someone very dear to him, who incidentally happens to be very dear to her as well, she suddenly, can't help. Either I'm missing something very important or this doesn't make sense logically at all.

This is something that didn't make sense to most people i assume, i mean it leaves it open to interpretation (the player making their own reasons) and leaves a gap in that particular story when there shouldn't really be any interpreting at all, she gets to be with Geralt, talks about meeting up at Kaer Morhen, then leaves and does her own thing and only shows up at Kaer Morhen when Yen contacts her?

What was there in terms of Triss was done amazingly and like you said no one is complaining about that, but rather the lack of (quantity) and gaps in what happens afterwards.
 
@Redemyr

Red you know my stance on this topic. I'm merely trying to point out that we need to be conscious of how we package this feedback about Triss so it gets seriously considered. The reason why I'm bringing that up is that I don't think Triss' romance or even Yen's romance was meant to factor into the main plot in any significant way. As such the romances themselves are a lower priority for 'fixing'. Gathering more reasons other than "I want more Triss cuz she's the best" is vital to swaying opinions. The narrative shortcomings count among them, for sure, but we need more imo.

It's not easy and I don't have any further answers to what I've already posted previously atm. I just want to point out what I believe to be the path to getting results before this thread gets caught up in the circular discussion about how disappointing the Triss romance was. That'll help people process, but wont dissuade devs to allocate resources if they don't already want to revisit the romances. Right now we have no way of telling so it's better to assume that they wont and we need to change their minds.
 
The players 'influence' the story being told and in essence become their own storyteller, making their own story (and changing it) by the boundaries that the writers set. As Madoga said, it isn't a linear story and in a game like this, different choices lead to different paths, and the arguments being told here aren't so much about choosing one or the other, but more to do with how that choice (Triss or Yen) affects the story we are trying to experience (and play through). Of course this is just my opinion, i am sure some will disagree.

I agree, in fact this is what I have been saying. The problem comes from the game not respecting your choice by a) not giving enough meaningful Triss interaction and b) forcing Yen on us further down the line.

Personally I'd go so far as to say it's NEVER a good argument. If a writer is unable to convey his intentions to the reader/player, he has done something wrong. Besides, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. A poorly written story is, and will always be, a poorly written story, regardless of the intentions.

In a game that is not open or branching in any way, a game where you go from A to B to C to the end, if they wrote something some way then you just sort of have to accept it. Even if you don't like it. It is, however, never a good idea with a choice-heavy game such as this.

If one choice is lacking - both plot and content wise - why is that choice there at all? We have a saying here in the Netherlands that roughly translates to: 'do something well, or don't do it at all' - which I feel is perfectly applicable here.

Couldn''t have said it any better myself. One choice is more right and one is more wrong because of its lack of cohesion and impact so why are we given the choice in the first place?

Anyway, sorry for the long post, I just wanted to get the point across. What they made, it was perfect. It is what they didn't, creating a hole in the narrative, that's the problem.

Nice post. The only thing that makes sense to me is she was on her way to Kaer Morhen and something happened. For example, she came across a village with some sort of a problem - crazy ruler, ghost, I don't know. She took it upon herself to try to help them. That seems unlikely, I know. Like you said though, it's hard to imagine why she isn't there. I don't really care why she isn't there. I care that she isn't there.

It's not easy and I don't have any further answers to what I've already posted previously atm. I just want to point out what I believe to be the path to getting results before this thread gets caught up in the circular discussion about how disappointing the Triss romance was. That'll help people process, but wont dissuade devs to allocate resources if they don't already want to revisit the romances. Right now we have no way of telling so it's better to assume that they wont and we need to change their minds.

While I feel that this is a decent point, but as storytellers and businessmen, what more reason do they need than the ones already listed? The narrative they want us to experience suffers as a result of these problems. As businessmen, my further enjoyment of the game is killed, don't think I can buy any of the expansions without a fix. On the flip side, I think lots of people would buy a companion-centrique DLC.

---------- Updated at 03:56 AM ----------

Wow, over 40k views! 320 votes & almost 1150 posts. Keep it up people! :D
 
While I feel that this is a decent point, but as storytellers and businessmen, what more reason do they need than the ones already listed? The narrative they want us to experience suffers as a result of these problems. As businessmen, my further enjoyment of the game is killed, don't think I can buy any of the expansions without a fix. On the flip side, I think lots of people would buy a companion-centrique DLC.

And I'm not so convinced that the devs will focus on it, considering that the people in this thread are a small minority. That's what I've been saying. Why should the devs cater to a small minority when they could work on DLC/expansions that add other content a bigger percentage of players is interested in? I'm not sure how I can make my position any clearer.
 
And I'm not so convinced that the devs will focus on it, considering that the people in this thread are a small minority. That's what I've been saying. Why should the devs cater to a small minority when they could work on DLC/expansions that add other content a bigger percentage of players is interested in? I'm not sure how I can make my position any clearer.

Well this is really a separate point. I think our reasons are good and I have said this before - will this be enough? I can't say. But that's part of what this thread is for: to gather support, to see just how many of us are out there. If it's not enough, at least we can say we tried. The alternative is to sit and do nothing? Nope, sorry I cannot do that.

If you think we are wasting our time, that's your prerogative, but I refuse to believe that a small group of dedicated people can't influence some change. After all, it's the only thing that really ever has.
 
Except for the fact that there was little to no explanation as to why Triss and Geralt broke up between w2 and w3.

The reason is obvious and doesn't need any explanation. Geralt regained his full memory at the end of The Witcher 2, including his memories and feelings about Yennefer.

Yennefer always was Geralt's one true love until he lost his memories. Now that he got his memories back and realizes his one true love is still alive, he obviously decides to look for her straight away (together with Vesemir).

Knowing Triss, she probably wasn't too happy about this. She greatly benefited from Geralt's amnesia, It was the only reason why their relationship had a chance. The "real" Geralt (e.g. Geralt from the books) would never start a relationship with Triss. Now that Geralt no longer suffers from amnesia and became his old "real" self again, it means the end of his relationship with Triss and the beginning of his search for his one true love Yennefer.
 
Well this is really a separate point. I think our reasons are good and I have said this before - will this be enough? I can't say. But that's part of what this thread is for: to gather support, to see just how many of us are out there. If it's not enough, at least we can say we tried. The alternative is to sit and do nothing? Nope, sorry I cannot do that.

If you think we are wasting our time, that's your prerogative, but I refuse to believe that a small group of dedicated people can't influence some change. After all, it's the only thing that really ever has.

That's not what I am saying at all. I have been trying to help since my very first post to come up with solutions and to try to keep people focused on the bigger picture. I'm getting tired and frustrated with having to repeat myself so I'm just going to point at my previous posts if you want to understand what my stance is.
 
@Redemyr

Red you know my stance on this topic. I'm merely trying to point out that we need to be conscious of how we package this feedback about Triss so it gets seriously considered. The reason why I'm bringing that up is that I don't think Triss' romance or even Yen's romance was meant to factor into the main plot in any significant way. As such the romances themselves are a lower priority for 'fixing'. Gathering more reasons other than "I want more Triss cuz she's the best" is vital to swaying opinions. The narrative shortcomings count among them, for sure, but we need more imo..

It's not easy and I don't have any further answers to what I've already posted previously atm. I just want to point out what I believe to be the path to getting results before this thread gets caught up in the circular discussion about how disappointing the Triss romance was. That'll help people process, but wont dissuade devs to allocate resources if they don't already want to revisit the romances. Right now we have no way of telling so it's better to assume that they wont and we need to change their mind

If they don't care about love, or feelings in general, which I is something I don't share, there's literally nothing we can do about it.

The reason I do believe they care about such things is that love for those dear to him is what drivers Geralt. He's got no country. We can have him act patriotically in side quests if we choose and steer events a certain way, but the main plot is about Geralt finding and protecting those he cares about. Starts with Yen and transfers into finding Ciri after the starting area is done.

Finding Ciri is literally 2/3 of the main plot, the other 1/3 is reuniting and protecting her. What happens with Ciri is one of the main factors determining how he'll end up his days (or if he'll live at all). The other being with whom he'll spend the those days. As far as Geralt goes, nothing else will define his future.

We are not given a choice as to whether we want to find Ciri or not. At this point (and I don't believe anyone will ever advocate for the alternative) the only way to progress through the main plot is to get closer to finding her.

We are, however, given a choice regarding Geralt's companion in life or lack thereof (or said companions will decide for him :))

That choice however is diminished because of everything that has been said here, so I won't elaborate on that.

Other than pointing out the inconsistencies and lack of development in that area I can't seem to find a better reason to ask for changes.
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The whole argument can be summarized like this:

a)People like Triss or Yen (or both).

b)People think that the choice Geralt makes it's important.

c) People enjoy watching the interactions that Geralt has with them. Or the interactions between them. Or with them and Ciri.

d)People feel this particular area is flawed and thus want it changed.

e)The more people that agree these with points, the higher the like likelihood something will be done about it.

Threads and people stating that they love Triss or Yen are important. Because they tell the devs which characters are liked the most by his fans.

No matter the injustice, poor treatment or lack of options, etc done to a particular character, if the players don't care that much about that particular person, it won't matter. For example a few have mentioned there's no further interaction with Rosa, the ambassador's daughter. Given how she is not nearly as popular as our sorcerers, she won't by prioritized, because not many would appreciate it or notice either way.

So again, that's why even short posts like I love Yen, I love Triss, etc are important, they tell the devs how much we care about them. They reinforce point a).

People addressing and complaining about the other points is also equally important. Finally suggestions as to what might be done could help them choose what to do if they decide to make changes.

So what I'm saying is, nothing gets wasted. And every little word, every argument, is a grain of sand towards a proper resolution.
 
Yet the reason I am posting here is because I firmly believe that increasing the amount of dialogue that deals with Geralt's romance past-present-future, can serve to increase the player's investment into the main plot and the end of his journey. That includes more Triss content.

I agree with this entirely @Zeroscape. The best thing for the game would be for Triss to help tell more of the story of Geralt and Ciri. From the books we know that Triss was involved in most of Ciri's life (early education, the Lodge and its first round of plans for Ciri, etc), and the game would benefit from hearing more from her on all these issues.
 
That's not what I am saying at all. I have been trying to help since my very first post to come up with solutions and to try to keep people focused on the bigger picture. I'm getting tired and frustrated with having to repeat myself so I'm just going to point at my previous posts if you want to understand what my stance is.

I get that you're trying to help - everything said here is helpful by everybody. Just sounds like you are trying to dissuade us - saying "we are the minority so don't get your hopes up?" I don't think is exceedingly helpful. Even if we come up with 20 good reasons as to why the narrative of the game is hurt by the poor handling of this, we would still be the minority, and our chances still low. Given that I don't have the money to fix it myself and I am not friends with any of the developers, what else can we do but talk about it on the forums? Not every single post is gold, filled with good ideas, but I think an important factor is to keep this thread active (the shear quantity of posts) and to keep talking about the characters, Triss specifically, to show that we aren't just "swaying opinions".

I know your stance, I've read it a couple of times. I agree with a lot of what you say, in fact you have some unique views, but what would you have us do? I'm not trying to be confrontational - I am really asking. I can't just sit idly by. I'm not trying to get into an argument here, I am more than happy leaving it at this but I had to say something - I don't want people to read what you wrote before,
Why should the devs cater to a small minority when they could work on DLC/expansions that add other content a bigger percentage of players is interested in?
, and be dissuaded from joining the discussion. We need more people on here, doesn't matter if it's been said before, doesn't matter if its circular or off topic at times, it's all constructive and it keeps this thread active.

Sometimes it is as simple as "we want more Triss cuz she's the best". If we just listed the reasons, would it be as persuasive as showing that we are passionate, that we really care about her? I think not.

The reason is obvious and doesn't need any explanation. Geralt regained his full memory at the end of The Witcher 2, including his memories and feelings about Yennefer.

Yennefer always was Geralt's one true love until he lost his memories. Now that he got his memories back and realizes his one true love is still alive, he obviously decides to look for her straight away (together with Vesemir).

Knowing Triss, she probably wasn't too happy about this. She greatly benefited from Geralt's amnesia, It was the only reason why their relationship had a chance. The "real" Geralt (e.g. Geralt from the books) would never start a relationship with Triss. Now that Geralt no longer suffers from amnesia and became his old "real" self again, it means the end of his relationship with Triss and the beginning of his search for his one true love Yennefer.

Couldn't you argue that the minute he got amnesia, the "real" Geralt ceased to exist? That was the moment the new Geralt was born. When he got his memory back he didn't lose the new memories post-amnesia. The Geralt we control in W3 is a combination of the two. While it is true that "real" Geralt's true love is Yennefer, it is also true that "new" Geralt's true love is Triss. That is why we are given the choice in the first place - the current Geralt clearly has unreconciled feelings for both of them.
 
And I'm not so convinced that the devs will focus on it, considering that the people in this thread are a small minority. That's what I've been saying. Why should the devs cater to a small minority when they could work on DLC/expansions that add other content a bigger percentage of players is interested in? I'm not sure how I can make my position any clearer.

I touched on this a while ago (don't know where). If CDPR is going to add content (in addition to any main story tweaks for the purpose of continuity with 'romance' decisions, such as Yennefer not frenching you), it probably makes the most sense to add Triss quests that are not solely based on their personal lives.

General example: Let's say you ask Triss to stay, and she contacts you again in Novigrad because she's researching XYZ subject or going to ABC location in the game world (out of personal or professional interest), it allows to expand on her character, allows the 'banter' to expand on their relationship a bit, but also has witcher-verse relevant plot (a certain type of magic/event/history/creature you're pursuing with her). This makes it so the quests are not solely based on their relationship but stand alone as having interesting content. If CDPR is willing to take this to a multi-quest level, it could be a multi side-quest 'mini plot'....not to the level of the planned DLC's, but several side quests that have a linked plot (which would maximize their complexity/value to the player).

Precise example: Triss contacts you (let's say through Dandelion), seeking your help in finding a fellow mage's prized book left behind in Novigrad. You meet up, search it down, and steal it from it's current owner. In the process, you discover notes on it's content being used to experiment on turning lower-level vampires into higher-level. This spawns the next side quest where you explore who is behind it, you run into a/some higher level vampires. For the third and final portion, you meet at her digs (let's say an abandoned home/room in the city). It allows room for a longer dialog about your relationship, you decide what your approach is to finding the ring-leader of the operation, and then sleuth them out (with a twist at the end).

I'm not saying this is good writing or a story CDPR should do, only that this sort of quest, with multiple types of content (witcher lore/elaboration of Triss's character/elaboration of their relationship) produces more 'bang for the buck'. You already have models for notes/books found in the quest, it doesn't involve creating new monsters, and Novigrad has so many locked doors, that they can re-use an existing location. Just an idea.
 
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No matter the injustice, poor treatment or lack of options, etc done to a particular character, if the players don't care that much about that particular person, it won't matter. For example a few have mentioned there's no further interaction with Rosa, the ambassador's daughter. Given how she is not nearly as popular as our sorcerers, she won't by prioritized, because not many would appreciate it or notice either way.

So again, that's why even short posts like I love Yen, I love Triss, etc are important, they tell the devs how much we care about them. They reinforce point a).

People addressing and complaining about the other points is also equally important. Finally suggestions as to what might be done could help them choose what to do if they decide to make changes.

So what I'm saying is, nothing gets wasted. And every little word, every argument, is a grain of sand towards a proper resolution.

Nicely said, everything is helpful and I won't be dissuaded simply because we are the "minority"
 
Good post Redemyr, there are characters that only play minor roles, so the developers are less likely to focus on them, however the point of these forums is to show what the fans think of the game, which characters they like, any bugs or glitches, what can be improved etc. You get the point.

We can't force the developers to create more content or fix something, because it is their choice, but the players can show their opinions and maybe even influence what the developers do for the game. It may be that the majority are the ones that have the biggest influence on the developers, but like Redemyr said, every post contributes something (big or small) . As for reasons why more Triss content should be added, there have been many suggestions over the previous pages (of course since this thread is growing, it can be hard to spot them).
 
This is a nice example @Eruvadhor - as you said, it doesn't need to be main story integration per se. They could achieve something meaningful through some side quests as well as some additional dialogue during the down time.

---------- Updated at 05:07 AM ----------

As for reasons why more Triss content should be added, there have been many suggestions over the previous pages (of course since this thread is growing, it can be hard to spot them).

And this why @shaedhen is reading through and incorporating the best ideas into the OP. Still though, I read it all, didn't take that long. Put on some music and get reading. :p
 
Nicely said, everything is helpful and I won't be dissuaded simply because we are the "minority"

If we are the minority, then everyone on the forum can also be considered the minority, i mean how many people bought the game compared to how many of them are on the forum?, this is a game after all and people play this game for different reasons, so finding a majority is almost impossible especially when the game only just released - even if everyone on the forum agreed on the same thing, it is still a minority because not everyone that bought a copy didn't all sign up to the forums, so we won't really know what they think or their opinion.
 
This is true @msanx so I say again, just because there aren't thousands of us on here, I won't be dissuaded from voicing my opinions. It's better than the alternative.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful and committed citizens can change the world, do you know why?"
"It's the only thing that ever has"
 
I can't believe that Geralt is so cold to Triss in Kaer Morhen, he don't kiss her, no hugging, even don't ask her how she feels, how was her trip, where she was for so long time.
CDPR could add more interactions with Triss in Kaer Morhen. Because there they act just like friends no lovers, it is ridiculous.
 
Because there they act just like friends no lovers, it is ridiculous.

Yup, welcome to the club, lol. I don't think it was Geralt doing it though - it was the fact that we just don't get the chance. Believe me, if I could have hugged her and asked her all those things, I would've. It just feels like she wasn't even supposed to be there and it's rather heartbreaking.
 
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I can't believe that Geralt is so cold to Triss in Kaer Morhen, he don't kiss her, no hugging, even don't ask her how she feels, how was her trip, where she was for so long time.
CDPR could add more interactions with Triss in Kaer Morhen. Because there they act just like friends no lovers, it is ridiculous.

If you didn't romance Triss it obviously makes sense. But judging from what you say it's the same if you did romance her?

I wouldn't know because I romanced Yennefer and didn't stop Triss from going to Kovir.
 
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