They said end of Geralt's story and that they are gonna give the series a rest for a while and that people shouldn't expect TW4 soon but they never said that its the end of the series.
Once, when she meets that young girl in the woods, while fighting off wolves. She tells her that her father can do much more than her, but except for that time she always says Geralt.
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Well, that was to be expected, they can't just change the story, though it's not like they had to change things here, they are just missing from the game, so they would have basically add scenes, which wouldn't be such a problem. They already did that in their previous games.
Just remember the whole questline with Cynthia they added afterwards, why not add something like this for Yen and Ciri and if possible all three together?
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You have no idea how much I blame myself for thatIf only we've started this thread months ago,instead of discussing it in Yennefer thread...
But I also thought that the old thread was already enough to draw attention to such issues...
I asked myself the same question, even though I did get the good ending, and not the bittersweet nor the bad one. Now, in my opinion, CDPR not showing them as a family had much to do with the fact that, earlier on in the game you get to choose between Yen and Triss as Geralt's betrothed. I chose Yen, but think how wierd players who chose Triss would feel like if Ciri was to call Yen her mother and the game showed how Ciri makes Geralt and Yen's relationship even stronger. In fact, if they showed this, they would also have to show how Triss feels about their family relatioship, after all Triss always felt guilty about having slept with Geralt when she first did, I think she would feel so bad of seing them happy as a family, that she would even dump Geralt, because Triss is good and cares about all 3 of them, she wouldn't mess with their happiness, no matter how strong her feelings are for Geralt, Triss is not like that.
So, unfortunatly, I think CDPR won't include Ciri and Yen's relationship in the game, just like there is no Triss - Ciri or Ciri - Dandelion relationships. It's a real shame.
By the way, great pics, loved every single one of them!
Not if he shows he is serious about wanting the relationship (that is why "let's try again" is not enough, for example), and that he will not leave again. And Ciri is an adult, she can accept Geralt's choice either way, at least that is what it looks like from these dialogues which may be added (although possibly changed) to the game in the next patch:
Ciri: You know… perhaps it's not my concern, but… I'm glad you and Yennefer have ended up together.
Geralt: Me too.
Ciri: You took your time.
Geralt: Hm. Guess we both needed a while to grapple with it.
Ciri: So what was it like? You know, when the wish lost its hold. What did you feel?
Geralt: Hmm. Well, there we were, the two of us, on the mountain top. I looked at her, and…
Geralt: And felt like I was exactly where I was supposed to be. At long last.
---
Geralt: So… need your advice. About Yennefer.
Ciri: Very well. Ask away.
Geralt: Thing is… I'd like to take her somewhere. Once it's over. Someplace… picturesque, beautiful, even. Where we can rest.
Geralt: You've been almost everywhere. Also know Yen well. Any ideas? I was thinking Spalla, or maybe Dol Blathanna…?
Ciri: The first roadside inn you pass. Take her there. Pay for a month in advance, carve "Do not disturb" into the room door and shut it behind you.
Geralt: Huh. Just like that?
Ciri: Just like that.
Geralt: Me too.
Ciri: You took your time.
Geralt: Hm. Guess we both needed a while to grapple with it.
Ciri: So what was it like? You know, when the wish lost its hold. What did you feel?
Geralt: Hmm. Well, there we were, the two of us, on the mountain top. I looked at her, and…
Geralt: And felt like I was exactly where I was supposed to be. At long last.
---
Geralt: So… need your advice. About Yennefer.
Ciri: Very well. Ask away.
Geralt: Thing is… I'd like to take her somewhere. Once it's over. Someplace… picturesque, beautiful, even. Where we can rest.
Geralt: You've been almost everywhere. Also know Yen well. Any ideas? I was thinking Spalla, or maybe Dol Blathanna…?
Ciri: The first roadside inn you pass. Take her there. Pay for a month in advance, carve "Do not disturb" into the room door and shut it behind you.
Geralt: Huh. Just like that?
Ciri: Just like that.
Ciri: Worked out nicely, don't you think?
Geralt: What're you talking about?
Ciri: You and Triss. Never expected it, to be honest.
Geralt: Life's full of surprises.
Ciri: So, how did the two of you--?
Geralt: End up together?
Geralt: Hmm. With Yen it was fight after fight, lots of arguments, drama… Not saying it was bad, but…
Ciri: But what?
Geralt: Got o be exhausting. With Triss, it's not. I finally feel… harmony. A calm. Feel like things are the way they're supposed to be.
---
Geralt: Not sure if you've heard, but… once it's all over, I'm going to Kovir.
Ciri: With Triss.
Geralt: Mhm.
Ciri: Interesting part of the world. Perhaps you'll get a contract for some rare snow beast. A barbegazi, or a vendigo… Or a, uh, an amarok.
Geralt: Or maybe I'll finally hang up my swords.
Ciri: It's that good with her?
Geralt: Better.
Geralt: What're you talking about?
Ciri: You and Triss. Never expected it, to be honest.
Geralt: Life's full of surprises.
Ciri: So, how did the two of you--?
Geralt: End up together?
Geralt: Hmm. With Yen it was fight after fight, lots of arguments, drama… Not saying it was bad, but…
Ciri: But what?
Geralt: Got o be exhausting. With Triss, it's not. I finally feel… harmony. A calm. Feel like things are the way they're supposed to be.
---
Geralt: Not sure if you've heard, but… once it's all over, I'm going to Kovir.
Ciri: With Triss.
Geralt: Mhm.
Ciri: Interesting part of the world. Perhaps you'll get a contract for some rare snow beast. A barbegazi, or a vendigo… Or a, uh, an amarok.
Geralt: Or maybe I'll finally hang up my swords.
Ciri: It's that good with her?
Geralt: Better.
Actually, that was specifically asked for in this post as suggestion 5. And since the tweaks are also for Yennefer, following that suggestion may imply adding some Yennefer - Ciri dialogue as well. However, such changes cannot be seen in the leak, but it may not be complete and final.
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Your first point is not really what I'm going for. Yes, Ciri might understand, probably, maybe, who knows? She has always liked Triss anyway. But of all the women I know, who's parents are divorced and their father is in a relationship with another woman, not one of them like it, probably out of jelousy but no matter, let's say Ciri would understand because she is not just the usual teen/adult, my point was that had the dev's shown Ciris mother/daughter relationship with Yen, those players who chose Triss would feel weird having chosen Triss regardless of Ciri's opinion in the matter, at least I know I would. Now, as for the part were I ilustrate my opinion about Triss' reaction towards seing Ciri and Yen manifestating their mutual love, that's just how I see her character, you can see her totally differently and it's fine, only Sapkowski could know who's right or wrong.
Now turning towards your second point, let's hope they add some good content for them both.
That's poor excuse, if you ask me.
So it was better to show the whole family as little as possible, especially the relationship between Yennefer and Ciri, because otherwise people would feel bad? Wouldn't that be a great example of how a videogame can move you to think about that?
Right now I feel bad, because while I can have the whole fun with Ciri, she can't, because the game doesn't let her to be involved in it. How is that fair?
@Kallelinski As I said, I don't like this any more than you do, but as far as a solution is concerned there are going to be some improvements (maybe minor, but still) in the upcoming updates. And if we are still not satisfied with that, well, let's hope that an Enhanced Edition comes out someday, with these relationships included and an extended, more concistent version of the ending. We can only hope. Great post by the way, cheers!
Honestly, to me that feels like terrible game and story design.
I get it. But I expect this type of design from Bethesda and these faults from Infinity Ward... not from CDPR.
Maybe they simply did not want to show such relationship, and that can have more than one reason. It could be an intentional writing or design decision, or just lack of resources. Characters in the game can also differ from the books (in Ciri's case some difference is even expected because of her age), and sometimes even from the previous games. The developers do care about consistency within the game itself, though. But those leaks above still do not really show a close family relationship, so I am not sure if they see that as a "problem" that needs to be fixed, other than adding some more Ciri to NPC dialogue.
Lack of resources/time is a very valid and probably the most likely reason. However, this reason is not applicable now. It can be fixed. Hence the topic.
Writing decision? I see no good reason to do so. In its current state it means BAD writing. So if it was intentional... well I know they arent as good as Sapkowski, but they are still professionals... this is a rookie mistake.
The previous games were always a "do it or die" situation. CDPR did not really expect (for sure) that they would be making Witcher 2 after Witcher. They hoped, hence the loose ends. But the way they are tied... suggests that it was NOT one single coherent vision. Same with Witcher 2 to Witcher 3 really.
Maybe they intended not to include them you say? Well, maybe you are right, maybe they didn't. It's not something we know, but it's certainly something I'd like to know. Because, in my opinion, these relationships were key... no, not key, not important, they were the heart of the novels. For me, above all the topics they made us reflect on, the bond bewteen these characters was the most important of them all. Sure, they can change whatever they want from the novels, they could even go full non-canon, but at least for me, that is a "problem" I'm not fond of. So if you are sure this is the case, if you've read any interview or anything, please link it to me. I'd like to read it too
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Yeah, guess we are on the same page here. Let's hope they prove my "theory" wrong, but I just can't think of any other reason why they would exclude such importat bonds from this game.
PS: Nice signature you've got there mate, very true.
I don't blame you or upset about you, it's just this is what I expected would happen, should've happened. That it will be more than just "choose your LI", that you have to deal with those issues, making it real relationships and not just options, especially if you consider Triss as a romance option, but the game doesn't let you deal with it, no it takes it even away from you, the whole family aspect, sometimes it feels like Geralt and Yennefer are a divorced couple and Ciri decided to live with Papa instead of Mama, even if you resume everything you had with Yennefer.
They also take this away in terms of Yennefer, so it's not just about Triss, Yennefer is furious about what Triss did, didn't do and her whole participation in the Lodge, but nothing of this is being dealt with in the game. Not even the issues that the game caused like the amnesia...
You say they did this, so the players, who decide for Triss, don't feel guilty about that, but that's actually what should have happened, what already happened in the books and what already happened with Triss in the game. She feels guilty about what she did, because she drove a wedge not just between Geralt and Yennefer, but also them and Ciri. The only one not being able to deal with this is the player.
All this just makes me sad, even more so now that they seem to be so eager to fix, to improve the Triss option even more, while almost completely neglecting this issue here or anything else concerning Triss, because it could cause a negative effect, yay fairness...it's the opposite they do, they reward you for doing exactly this with absolutely no negative effect and all that had to suffer for was a family, about which almost exclusively only book readers care.
Apparently the lesser evil was still good enough for them and it looks like it hasn't changed a bit.
No idea what you meant before this, but yeah, can't argue with that. I agree that they should have shown the good and bad about both choices, either Yen or Triss, both would have consequences... and I don't mean one of them burning Kaer Morhen to the ground, but something really touching, like... I don't know but you get my point, and we both know they could have done some really great scenes that really get to the player, they are CDPR.
I still can not believe that I didn't get to hear one single "Daughter", "My little ugly one" from Yen's voice actress, or "Mother" from Ciri's :'( It would have been beautiful to hear that, just once.
Yes, there is not much about their relationship either, and it's also something that should have been included if you ask me (Yen-Triss, Yen-Ciri, Triss-Ciri and Dandy-Ciri are some of the most important relationships that are missing in the game.
Triss' participation in the Lodge is dealt with, in one sentence (from W2 I think) where Dandy says something like: "Not to mention she betrayed the Lodge" or "The Lodge doesn't trust her that much anymore, since her betrayal" It was something of the sort, I can't remmember exactly but I think it made reference to the event's at the ending of "The Lady of the Lake". In my opinion however, it would have been amaizing to include more of the Lodge and Triss' participation (also Yen's relation towards the Lodge), I couldn't stand the Lodge in the books for what they wanted to do with Ciri, Geralt can't either, but that is shown in one sentence which doesn't really change anything and non-bookreaders can't make much sense out of it. That dialog option is: "I don't trust those women, I don't want them anywhere near Ciri." Doesn't say much does it?
I think so too, that should have happened. But think about the player's reaction, I mean those who feel guilty, they may talk crap about the game, and as a dev, you don't want people talking crap about your game. In order for everyone to feel like we do, we should make the books go viral, let's hope they do, and for f**k sake let them all be translated once and for f**king all.
You said Triss drew a wedge between the family (let's call them that, at least on this post). I don't think that is true, she did stir some trouble between Geralt and Yen, but that's to be expected I guess. If I put myself in Yen's shoes, if my best friend fucked my girlfriend, I'd thrash him, and then we would talk. But I don't think Triss drew a wedge between them, at least in the books they all knew what they wanted, and Triss didn't get in the way. In the games, well... yes? But as I said on some other post, I think that if Triss saw their family relationship, if Triss saw how happy they were, then she would step away on her own, no matter what Geralt did or did not say, Triss is just too good.
I don't think they will consider changing the relationships they built for the games, but as for the family, I am glad to consider myself among those who care, too damn bad it is not included in the game, but they could add some cutscenes, some new quest for the family. I don't know, I too felt kind of sad that there was no family in the game, so I started reading the books again, it made me feel much better, maybe you should try it too.
Maybe we should try talking about something more cheerful next time, too much sadness for one Sunday...
Regarding the patch and fairness, note that it will only add a few lines of new dialogue to the game in a handful of scenes, and with those included, there will still be more than 3 times more unique lines for Yennefer in act 2 and act 3. The patch makes little difference, and it is unlikely that there will ever be a real "fix" that actually adds a noteworthy amount of content, which would also be needed to be able to deal with the "negative effects" demanded here in a reasonable way. To be honest, I find it hard to sympathize with this thread after reading some of the posts above.
Good, because I really like how it turned out between Geralt and Yen, I just really miss this triangle of Geralt, Yennefer and Ciri, as it feels incomplete.
I just wished Ciri would treat Yennefer just the way she used to be, just like she treat Geralt in the game.
The books, sigh, just compare the reunion at Stygga castle, which is heartbreaking, while the one in the game is more than happy, they are finally back together, though it feels like they are still separated, at least Ciri and Yennefer.
I am in my late 20s and I still call my parents Vatter or Mutta and not by their actual names, I don't think this will ever change, just like my mom will always treat me like a child, even if I am 50.
Just thinking about calling them by their forenames is just strange for me. Even in my contact list they are listed as mother & father.
If you compare the ending of the books with the one of the game, the game is much happier though. White Frost and The Wild Hunt are defeated and Geralt and Yennefer can visit Ciri or vice versa whenever they want, no matter if she becomes a witcheress or Emperess, almost a too good happy end. So there is at least that.
I wouldn't even need a whole overhaul of quests or whole new quests, as I said, just one scene where Yennefer brushes her hair or vice versa, something to show that Ciri still cares for her as used to be.
Right now it feels like Yennefer is a stranger to her
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Sorry, I forgot it is forbidden to say anything negative about a certain npc...
I'd gladly trade all those new lines for more Ciri/Yen moments.Yen's romance doesn't need fixing anyway
Feel free to say anything negative, I merely pointed out that I do not agree with the claim that the game is unfair to Yennefer, with or without patch. And that I do not support this suggestion, since it is not clear there is an actual problem to be fixed, and I think some of the demands are not reasonable. Other than that, I do not really have more to say here.
This thread is clearly intended for those of us who care about seing some Yen-Ciri content, because we belive that such a relationship is too important to be left out from this game. For us such a relationship being non-existent in the game is a problem. If you do not care about this relationship (Geralt, Yen, and Ciri), regardless if you have read the books or not, then I don't understand what you had to say here on the first place.
Oh, and just to be clear, we are not demanding anything here. We are just expressing what we would most want out of the game, a future patch, update, expansion, etc. We are not ordering CDPR to fix anything.
"If you do not care about this relationship (Geralt, Yen, and Ciri), regardless if you have read the books or not, then I don't understand what you had to say here on the first place."
We don't disparage, or so much as try to drive away, members whose opinions differ from your own. You think the game shorts the Yennefer-Ciri relationship, and you have some foundation for your claim, you are welcome to express it in this thread. You think the game satisfactorily treats the relationship, and you have some foundation for your claim, you are equally welcome. This thread is for all opinions, not only the ones you agree with. Make it so.
We don't disparage, or so much as try to drive away, members whose opinions differ from your own. You think the game shorts the Yennefer-Ciri relationship, and you have some foundation for your claim, you are welcome to express it in this thread. You think the game satisfactorily treats the relationship, and you have some foundation for your claim, you are equally welcome. This thread is for all opinions, not only the ones you agree with. Make it so.