The weakness that is Scoia'tael

[Lytha]

I really do not mind monsters, but that "close ranks!" Foltest is making me wish we would actually be kingslayers in TW2...

Thanks for the lines about Borkh. I was sitting on 1.2k scraps after the patch and after buying Aeromancy (which I do not really fancy, by the way), and had no clue what to spend them on. Borkh is funny indeed.


(just hit lvl 50, with about 5-10 matches done with non-Scoia. Woo.)

 

[Noela]

I really do not mind monsters, but that "close ranks!" Foltest is making me wish we would actually be kingslayers in TW2...

Thanks for the lines about Borkh. I was sitting on 1.2k scraps after the patch and after buying Aeromancy (which I do not really fancy, by the way), and had no clue what to spend them on. Borkh is funny indeed.


(just hit lvl 50, with about 5-10 matches done with non-Scoia. Woo.)

I have Aeromancy from a lucky keg, but I don't use it. What I use is Merigold's Hailstorm against NR, and I just play in the middle row. I suppose it depends on your cards, obviously if you are playing with dwarfs you absolutely don't want to hailstorm yourself. As a deterrent too. Hailstorm + ambushes in the middle row. But you have to play it early or you risk having a lot of promoted units not afected by it. It was sometimes tricky with philippa unleashing hell on that middle row in the last turn, so when using that strategy I always try to force rival to go first.

Keep me posted on Borkh

 

[Lytha]

My Borkh experiences so far were:

- Borkh vs. Foltest, Reinforced Trebuchet. The Northener for some reasons kept buffing and cloning that RT. When Borkh nuked them both, opponent for the first time hesitated and seemed a bit confused. (he was not a newbie.)

- Borkh vs. the single, lonely Scoia opponent I met today (Eithne, sticky dwarves, destruction). Borkh drawn for round2, played quickly. Opponent stared and passed.

- Borkh vs. Eredin, Foglet Focus. He also passed quickly and I got that round.


All 3 of these Borkh matches were won. (4 matches done since Borkh replaced Milva, no Borkh drawn in one of them.)

 

[Noela]

- Borkh vs. Foltest, Reinforced Trebuchet. The Northener for some reasons kept buffing and cloning that RT. When Borkh nuked them both, opponent for the first time hesitated and seemed a bit confused. (he was not a newbie.

Hmmm, maybe he get confused and thought he would have time to promote them?

Glad that you are enjoying the Borkh experience XD

EDIT: also "sticky dwarves" sounds...ugggghhh

 

[mjul]

As a 100% pure Scoia'tael player I can tell you that it has been an uphill battle.
The first days were good, then, once people got better cards, it became more difficult. After the patch it's more interesting but I wouldn't say it's any easier. People are experimenting with different builds for different fractions and since the patch is new you don't see a stable meta yet.
The Dwarves deck is unfortunately still not a viable strategy. Poor dwarves.

 

[devivre]

I think Aeromancy is great. I loved using it with Skellige (even against Monsters). IMO the best weather card - if you are not playing monsters that is.

Unfortunately in my Scoia deck it doesn't fit in.

 

[TripSin]

I started off doing a very hawker support/special focused deck that managed a pretty good win-rate, like 70% maybe. But I don't play it anymore after the nerf to hawker support with the last patch.

I made another Squirrel deck that I'm using now that also has a decently good win rate. It exploits some strong neutral cards with added elf sniper support. It also happens to be very capable of going against the monster weather decks that's become more common.

 

[Treamayne]

The Dwarves deck is unfortunately still not a viable strategy. Poor dwarves.

I've been building toward a Dwarf deck since my second or third day playing. I really enjoy playing it, but it's win rate is low (of course) the only non-dwarves in the deck are Ciri and Geralt. When/If they add cards to the pool - I think dwarves needs one or more of the following:

- A Blue Stripes style Bronze that buff each other
- A Barclay Els style Bronze, that adds 1 to each non-gold dwarf on your side (only in play so it can be bronze). By limiting to Dwarf, you can avoid the usual Row limitation.
- A "on action" self-buff like Hawker Support - but buffs when you play a Dwarf unit (possibly just change Dwarven Mercenary to this)
- A weather immune dwarf, or dwarf with an ability that mitigates weather in some fashion (maybe an Archgriffin-style Dwarf)

As far as change wishlists, I would like to see:
- Dwarven Mercenary count Brouver Hoog when it counts Dwarves
- Barclay Els include Gold Dwarves. There are only two, so it's not gamebreaking to include Zoltan.

 

[schidzo]

Well, seems the latest patch did help Scoia'tael a lot, as I've had a lot of success running a control Scoia'tael deck, so I was wrong that they needed a buff, indeed the other factions just needed a nerf. Now that medic chaining is much lessened (there's still some medic chains going on, but it's way less as the bronze medics can't chain other bronze medics), Scoia'tael can more easily keep up. The only issue are golden cards, but then again, each faction should have weaknesses.

However, I am very glad that so many people are discussing the Scoia'tael and tactics on how to improve them.

 

[Lytha]

I don't know. My win rate has not improved.

Should really look into my problems with these frigging Foltests though. Maybe I should stop going "Kill! Maim! Destroy!" as soon as I see that Foltest's punchable face. (Meaning: I get all the nukes I have for Foltests decks. Result is often a very tight win for the Northener. And no GG for me, because they don't like being nuked.)

Hrm.

Win rate against the others looks fine.

 

[Charzin]

I'm suddenly running into nothing but Monster weather decks, which has actually caused me to stop playing for the moment until they add some more counters than just holding on to a Clear Sky. I don't have the cards to get all the silver cards I need for a proper Neophyte removal deck either...

 

[Noela]

I don't know. My win rate has not improved.

Should really look into my problems with these frigging Foltests though. Maybe I should stop going "Kill! Maim! Destroy!" as soon as I see that Foltest's punchable face. (Meaning: I get all the nukes I have for Foltests decks. Result is often a very tight win for the Northener. And no GG for me, because they don't like being nuked.)

Hrm.

Win rate against the others looks fine.

I always have a double weather card just for dealing with NR. It is very rare to find a NR with a single Clear Skies on deck. Usually is very effective, but you have to be alert and play it before promote. But they always buff the cards before promoting, so it is not so difficult. The bad thing is that I play Mercenaries, so I have to play always on the free weather row, and try to get the card in the mulligan phase because we all now how trigger happy mercenaries are with just that frigging card that they should not use for the love of god XD
So, Weather+Tremors, and expect resurrecting and Priscilla the next round.

 

[Lytha]

Hrm. Weather. *frowns*

Need to think about that.



I gave the Elven Wardancers a go today, and promptly lost the two test matches. But... opponents were two Foltests and I did rather horribad against them today anyway. But I really see far too many weaknesses with these Wardancers.

- pathetic starter health = prime target for the nukes
- ridiculous high amount of health after going mental and placing so many traps = prime target for the scorch, Borkh and Igni
- and the "funny" situation of "whoa, look at all the wardancers in my hand. Now, where are the traps today?"

Don't like it. But I think I should test them some more.

Because yeah... a fully developed Wardancer is shinier than my Vri Vanguards with their 4+2 points. But the Vri Vanguards have no prerequisite to get 4+2 points instead of just 2. And if need be, I can bounce the Vri Vanguards around a bit with BM Commandos, and if I am lucky, I can Hav.Heal both the neophyte and the Vri Vanguard.

Hrm hrm.



Some more Borkh observations for you, Noela

- Borkh caused some more hesitation and premature round throwing today
- Borkh did also merrily nuke something in round 3 for a fabulous 9:0 final round win.
- Borkh did cause a few "no GG for you, evil p2w person!" moments of players with less developed decks.
- Borkh also caused some really fast forfeits.
- One opponent giggled madly and Decoyed his big card at just the right moment
- Some opponents also giggled madly, because they also had Borkhs.

I feel that he and Igni might become standard deck participants, just like Villentretenmerth, Avallach, Yennefer, Geralt and Ciri were in TW3's Gwent.

 

[SolarasMind]

I'm suddenly running into nothing but Monster weather decks

With the exception of 2 games that I remember off the top of my head, most Monster decks I've encountered have been running one primary weather: fog or frost. My strategy for Monsters is 1. Ambush cards--booby trap everything--weather doesn't bother them and 2. Any row loyal cards like Archer/Commando combos--then I can put all my cards wherever the weather isn't. Typically, I'm putting everything on the siege row. Minus those 2 games that were running Water Hags and rain, siege row has been the safe bet in my experience. Throw in a Gold card or two for additional weather immunity+strength points+other advantages and some special cards for more damage--and basically keep the Monsters from fielding any cards. Weather won't help them if they can't keep a card on the field.

 

[Noela]

Lytha , more Borkh thoughs over there

-Borkh + Weather works too. Faced againts Borkh, usually they throw low strengh units as fodder; keep the weather for the strong ones. Specially against NR. Lest chance with Skellige, and of course monsters. But sometimes, if you see Ge...gele...whatever the painter guy XD...you can be almost sure that it is not a weather deck (I don't know why, I think it would be neat to put all the board under weather and then buff a row with him, but I don't know, I'm not a monster...). And usually they have breeder decks, so they don't use frost because nekkers. Sometimes they even don't use Fog because arachas. So Borkh for making them play their non breedables, and weather after they have used painter guy ability. Just in case that you don't have lacerate on hand (trigger happy mercenaries again)
-I think Borkh works very well with Scoia because we are master procrastinators. Traps, ambushes and Francesca. Sometimes if I don't have a good hand I'll even throw a potion to the enemy, or a lacerate to the winds, just for pasing turn. And because I use Isengrim and part of my strategy is feeding him. Using Toruviel first is not a bad idea because 8+2=10 and 12+2=14. Some NR will play Ciri or Geralt and pass. If you already have Toruviel you'll win. Better if they have played Geralt, of course.
-Yep, Decoy hurts, and sometimes it can be helped. But a wasted decoy is good too.
-I see you have experimented the Borkh staredown...

@SolarasMind

I've seen some heavy weather decks, but usually is what you said: Fog and Frost. And as you said, they can be countered by cleaning the opponent's board, but there are some dangerous decks out there. Never let them go last if you can prevent it. Last moment Ragnarok is a thing...

 

[Lytha]

With the exception of 2 games that I remember off the top of my head, most Monster decks I've encountered have been running one primary weather: fog or frost. My strategy for Monsters is 1. Ambush cards--booby trap everything--weather doesn't bother them and 2. Any row loyal cards like Archer/Commando combos--then I can put all my cards wherever the weather isn't. Typically, I'm putting everything on the siege row. Minus those 2 games that were running Water Hags and rain, siege row has been the safe bet in my experience. Throw in a Gold card or two for additional weather immunity+strength points+other advantages and some special cards for more damage--and basically keep the Monsters from fielding any cards. Weather won't help them if they can't keep a card on the field.

And then you meet a Dagon who cackles madly as he uses the leader for a Torrential Rain as his final move.

Dagons with their 20 billion weather cards can be sort of problematic.


What I love are Monsters with just Leshen, Caranthir (i.e. just Frost and Fog), or breeders. Traps are really highly effective against those types.


Some statistics, because stats are fun:

Last day + last night:
27 matches total

	I win	I lose	Total
Monsters	9	1	10
Northern	2	6	8
Scoia	1	2	3
Skellige	4	2	6
Total	16	11	27

Monsters 90% win rate
Northern 25% win rate
Scoia 33% win rate
Skellige 67% win rate
Total 59% win rate

Hrm. Sample size is too small to say anything really reliable. Should do it over the whole ~300 matches.


Anyway, yeah, that is why I totally love to play against monsters, while giving Foltest decks rude nicknames.

 

[Lytha]

Eeek. Total numbers since 2016-11-03 are... surprising.

Opp's faction	I won	I lost	Tie	Total	win rate %
Monster	72	39	0	111	65%
Northern	46	42	2	90	51%
Scoia	22	13	0	35	63%
Skellige	36	29	0	65	55%
Total	176	123	2	301	58%

I'm somewhat stumped right now. Did not expect my win% over Northern be that high in total.

Anyway. Proof that "The weakness that is Scoia-Tael", eh.

Yeah, it is not "90% wins" like some derps claim without statistical backup for their uberdecks. But it's also FAR from being "weak".



That gives me, by the way:

Of 301 opponents, I met
37% Monsters
30% Northern
12% Scoia
22% Skellige

 

[SolarasMind]

Did not expect my win% over Northern be that high in total.

Probably because when NR wins, they win big I'll keep some numbers today and see if can back you on the NR rate.

 

[Laveley]

I'm somewhat stumped right now. Did not expect my win% over Northern be that high in total.

Northern realms is really weak against scoia after the patch. I think i barely have more than 50% against scoia playing nr now.

 

[Lytha]

Mrmmm... I am doing worse against those Foltests after the patch than before.