The Witcher 3 Alchemy System

[BlackWolf500.298]

I'm not saying that you have to like it. What you choose to like is your own prerogative, I'm simply offering a viewpoint to why these changes are being made. I'm a hardcore RPG fan as well, but I'm ok with elements being "streamlined" if it makes the gameplay more compelling.

I understand why they are made, I do simply not approve.

The fact is all other elements and every impact this change has has to be considered.
And my conclusion is that while the auto-refill might cater to the enjoyment of some people and convince some people to try alchemy it will also ruin the enjoyment for a lot of other people who grew to love it.

Simple solution: establish other OPTIONAL systems that allow an EASY access to low- and mid-level potions for people who do not WANT to bother with brewing them.

Still, even if those changes are done there is NO guarantee that the potions will be more "balanced" in their effects as you are hoping.

 

[thislsmadness]

I understand why they are made, I do simply not approve.

The fact is all other elements and every impact this change has has to be considered.
And my conclusion is that while the auto-refill might cater to the enjoyment of some people and convince some people to try alchemy it will also ruin the enjoyment for a lot of other people who grew to love it.

Simple solution: establish other OPTIONAL systems that allow an EASY access to low- and mid-level potions for people who do not WANT to bother with brewing them.

Still, even if those changes are done there is NO guarantee that the potions will be more "balanced" in their effects as you are hoping.

If they want to create optional systems to appease both sides, then that is great. Its just a question of whether they can afford to divert manpower and resources to develop optional systems. If they can do that, then more power to them.

 

[Percival_Dickenbutts]

If major gameplay systems can be entirely ignored or, when used, they break the game then that is bad gameplay design. It matters to me because I want all parts of this game to be compelling and useful to me.

Still, you are essentially arguing that you think the game should be harder, NOT that the old system was flawed or that the new system is better. Believe me, you are in the teeniest tiniest minority that thinks the game is made too easy by using potions even on the highest difficulty setting. And when you say that you want this part of the game to be useful and compelling to you, it basically translates to "Make the game harder so that I need to use potions!" So yeah, you're arguing about difficulty, not mechanics.

 

[Scholdarr]

All I'm saying is that the game will, and should, make compromises to the lore in an effort to create more compelling gameplay.

No, what you actually (should) mean is "All I'm saying is that the game should make compromises to the lore in an effort to create a gameplay that I personally enjoy more."

There is no objective rule that sticking to the lore very closely would have any negative impact on gameplay. Especially given the case that "compelling gameplay" isn't anything objective itself. Not everything is fun to everyone to the same extend. The problem is that you apparently think that there is some golden way to "compelling gameplay", but there isn't. In the end, it's all up to tastes and how you define "compelling" for yourself

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

All I'm saying is that the game will, and should, make compromises to the lore in an effort to create more compelling gameplay.

And all I am saying is that:

1. There are other ways to make the gameplay more compelling while NOT compromising the lore too much
2. Even if they make this particular change a lot of us don't like it does NOT mean that the game will be harder with potions this time (for you)

 

[thislsmadness]

Still, you are essentially arguing that you think the game should be harder, NOT that the old system was flawed or that the new system is better. Believe me, you are in the teeniest tiniest minority that thinks the game is made too easy by using potions even on the highest difficulty setting. And when you say that you want this part of the game to be useful and compelling to you, it basically translates to "Make the game harder so that I need to use potions!" So yeah, you're arguing about difficulty, not mechanics.

No, I'm saying that all around the potion system in W2 is badly design. The fact that they are overhauling the whole thing, suggests that CDPR was also not happy with the way potions worked in W2 and that they want it to play a bigger role in the game.

 

[thislsmadness]

No, what you actually (should) mean is "All I'm saying is that the game should make compromises to the lore in an effort to create a gameplay that I personally enjoy more."

There is no objective rule that sticking to the lore very closely would have any negative impact on gameplay. Especially given the case that "compelling gameplay" isn't anything objective itself. Not everything is fun to everyone to the same extend. The problem is that you apparently think that there is some golden way to "compelling gameplay", but there isn't. In the end, it's all up to tastes and how you define "compelling" for yourself

You are also describing a game that you will personally enjoy. Every single person in this thread is dealing in opinons, we arent the devs and we don't get to decide is/isn't in the game. So what is your point?

And all I am saying is that:

1. There are other ways to make the gameplay more compelling while NOT compromising the lore too much
2. Even if they make this particular change a lot of us don't like it does NOT mean that the game will be harder with potions this time (for you)

1. We're not developing so we don't know that. What CDPR wants to accomplish with this is their vision, not ours.
2. Maybe they won't? If I find that potions still break encounter balance then thats something I'll have to deal with.

 

[Percival_Dickenbutts]

No, I'm saying that all around the potion system in W2 is badly design. The fact that they are overhauling the whole thing, suggests that CDPR was also not happy with the way potions worked in W2 and that they want it to play a bigger role in the game.

While I agree that TW2 alchemy system was not as good as the one in TW1. It was still an alchemy system. While the new proposed system is as I said earlier; A talent-tree that you can re-spec any time you want and only requires you to go through a mini-game a few times to unlock and upgrade the "talents". It would merely be disguised as potions, hence, the lore is not upheld and we lose what I think is an essential part of The Witcher experience!

 

[thislsmadness]

While I agree that TW2 alchemy system was not as good as the one in TW1. It was still an alchemy system. While the new proposed system is as I said earlier; A talent-tree that you can re-spec any time you want and only requires you to go through a mini-game a few times to unlock and upgrade the "talents". It would merely be disguised as potions, hence, the lore is not upheld and we lose what I think is an essential part of The Witcher experience!

I don't think we've seen enough of this new system to dismiss it that way. What if the key mechanic of these mutagenic potions is that you are constantly changing them accommodate enemy tactics? The brewing element may be removed, but preparation is still key... again, that would go back to what I was saying above about compromise.

Ultimately, none of us can really make an informed decision about this new system until we've seen it in action.

 

[Percival_Dickenbutts]

Ultimately, none of us can really make an informed decision about this new system until we've seen it in action.

I'll have to agree with that. Although if they are even considering changing it back to what I personally think it should be like (hoping for TW1 system obviously), which is the impression I've gotten so far. (I think @Marcin Momot said they were still experimenting) Then I have to fly the banners for what I think is best.

Until we get more information I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Wild_Fishing]

Buy potions from who? The witcher's potions are lethal for humans.

From witches and mages? In books Nenneka replenished his potions.

You have a point, especially when we consider the first game, where in the beginning those bastards were trying to steal the secrets for creating them.
It doesn't make much sense for a random merchant to be selling witcher potions, now does it?

They stole the secrets of mutating. Merchants can execute an order for witcher.

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

1. We're not developing so we don't know that. What CDPR wants to accomplish with this is their vision, not ours.
2. Maybe they won't? If I find that potions still break encounter balance then thats something I'll have to deal with.

Then I seriously do not understand why you fight so hard in favor of those changes.

Just to clarify this: No one here says that all the changes are bad. In fact the only change we find horrible is the auto-refilling of potions.
Because basically we think that this change indicates that alchemy will be LESS part of the game because there is no need to do anything but meditate once you have collected the ingredients 1 time.

 

[Medy89]

Well for me its mostly about the effectivness of those potions.... if they would be significant boosts I really need I wouldnt mind collecting the stuff... the monsters would need to be strong enough to force me to.... I would prefer that... Otherwise I will just ignore alchemy again... because if I dont need it why bother with collecting this stuff.

Potions need to be helpful & monsters, enemys need to be challenging enouggh .. to get me wanting to drink that juice ...

I hope they can pull it off..
alchemy needs to be powerful....

 

[thislsmadness]

Then I seriously do not understand why you fight so hard in favor of those changes.

Just to clarify this: No one here says that all the changes are bad. In fact the only change we find horrible is the auto-refilling of potions.
Because basically we think that this change indicates that alchemy will be LESS part of the game because there is no need to do anything but meditate once you have collected the ingredients 1 time.

I'm not "fighting so hard" for anything. I'm simply sharing my opinion(s) on the topic, you engaged me which is why I've continued to respond in kind. I understand what your argument is, I simply don't agree that auto-refilling potion are automatically such a horrible thing, I've given my reasons above.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

Well, it was solid enough for me and solid enough to not be tampered with, as far as I'm concerned. "Never touch a running system".

And from what I could gather, it actually seems to have a lot to do with newcomers. Or is there another reason why CD Projekt Red would cut down on the (repeated) potion-brewing part of the system and replace it with auto-refilling potions? Most of the people who played the previous games surely wouldn't mind clicking that Create Potion button a couple of times in the third installment of the Witcher as well?

If the opposite is the case then

How solid the system was or not yeah that's subjective, to me it was ok, but like i said, poorly balanced. But still potions weren't important or crucial, unless you set TW2 at max difficulty, which means the game kind of failed then, if potion are such an important part of witchers, yet it doesn't play its role properly in any difficulty but the top ones. And in TW1 only with FCR were they really important, or against the koschley and javed.

And the newcomers is not the reason for this change, at least not if you believe the REDs. Its not about how easy it is to create portions or not, or how tiring, its about players not using them often enough, because they are either too precious so players save them, or because they make you OP in most battles except bosses and such. Players like me for example, that love high difficulty and challenge that's both strategically based and reflex based, will often push themselves into beating challenges in the most "effective" manner, so that means saving potions for big fights, you know, kind of like in Survival Horror games you save up your powerful ammo/gun, but in this case they want potions in TW3 to be very relevant and a good choice for many battles, to integrate it more with normal gameplay moments.. Just listen to the interview with Konrad that's here around the forums, he is sitting in a table with a bald guy I think.

Im not siding against or in favor, just to make it clear, im trying to explain what the devs said.

 

[Yeiiow]

My vote is The Witcher 1 system, maybe with a 3-5 seconds effect delay after you drink the potion, and a longer effect duration like we have on the FCR
mods.

The whole metabolism controlling thing is just pure bullshit, as is the auto-refilling potions thing.

 

[EliHarel]

Haven't read the thread, so maybe this was suggested.

If the goal is to mitigate the grinding, what about having few plants and spread far in-between, instead of finding something to pick every 5 meters like in the previous two games. Only every plant will produce many herbs to pick, enough to make several potions. Just an arbitrary number I'm throwing here - say 8. Instead of picking 8 White Myrtle leafs from 8 White Myrtle plants in a small area, just have one plant in that area that generates 8 leafs.

This doesn't undo the grinding, but it does lessen it. You still need to pick up things, but your play isn't interrupted/paused as commonly as the former two games for the sake of picking loot. Also it gives you enough ingredients to make several potions, and theoretically reduces the justification for auto-refilling flasks; since every trip to restock on herbs will supply you with enough for several potions. Not an infinite amount, but enough to carry you through a number of battles.

It's a principle I find good for loot in general - less of it (i.e. the act of looting), but what little there is shall be meaningful and more interesting to find.

Edit: Reason for having few plants and spread far in-between is to prevent inflation. This essentially leads to similar results when picking herbs as the previous games, just changes the way you do it - lowering the frequency with hope of making it less annoying and breaking the flow of your game. The downside is making you travel a bit more when you do need to restock, since plants will be more rare.

 

[karl_hummer]

Hello everybody! Long time reader of the forums, first time poster.
I have a question about all this controversial alchemy system: do we know how many bottles of each potion auto-refill when meditating? What if I want a specific number of bottles of one potion?

 

[Mohasz]

(...) Only every plant will produce many herbs to pick, enough to make several potions. Just an arbitrary number I'm throwing here - say 8. Instead of picking 8 White Myrtle leafs from 8 White Myrtle plants in a small area, just have one plant in that area that generates 8 leafs.

This is a very similar idea to the one that's been brought up earlier: you make one potion, but you could use it multiple times. I like it. Definitely better than automatically refilling potions. That way, the buff that comes with a potion could just as well be a passive bonus, because there's no reason not to use it if you have it all the time in your pocket. It doesn't make too much sense to me.

 

[OptoNick]

Hello everybody! Long time reader of the forums, first time poster.
I have a question about all this controversial alchemy system: do we know how many bottles of each potion auto-refill when meditating? What if I want a specific number of bottles of one potion?

Currently we're all hoping to see some additional information about how this system will supposed to work