The Witcher 3 Alchemy System

[BlackWolf500.298]

Is it possible to drink the potions without meditating(like in the 1st witcher)?

Yes, and that is about one of the few positive things I can say at the moment about the new system.
Again, as far as we can tell/guess:

1. There will be experimentation
2. We will be able to sip (normal) potions during combat

But:

1. Potions will auto-refill if you have the alcohol base in your inventory
2. There will be a strange potion upgrade system we do not know enough about yet (nothing inherently bad, but I need to know more to be sure, there are a lot of questions)
3. You will NOT have to collect ingredients for the potion after you did it the first time, it will be made automatically without needing anything but the base alcohol (some sources (look at the subtext "other production values") claim it is different and you need ingredients to a degree, I still don't get that. Again, we need a video))

I really want a video about this and I would really like some compromises on the developers side in regards to the auto-refill, because IMO they are trying to solve a problem (people not taking potions) that is unsolvable and a problem (people hoarding ingredients) that is not a problem at all.

 

[LarsenHQ]

It's beyond me why they even bother with reintroducing the alcohol base from the first game when you no longer can restock your supply of potions the traditional way anyway. Or am I missing something?
Experimentation, huh? Hard to believe there's even room for tinkering around in such a seemingly limited workspace.

1. Potions will auto-refill if you have the alcohol base in your inventory
2. There will be a strange potion upgrade system we do not know enough about yet
3. You will NOT have to collect ingredients for the potion after you did it the first time, it will be made automatically without needing anything but the base alcohol

This and a uber-hardcore feature like Insane mode in the very same game? You gotta be kidding, RED.
That's...wow, that's quite a contrast you've got there.

I really want a video about this and I would really like some compromises on the developers side in regards to the auto-refill, because IMO they are trying to solve a problem (people not taking potions) that is unsolvable and a problem (people hoarding ingredients) that is not a problem at all.

Yeah, after reading this I'd love to pick the devs brains too. And try to put some common sense into them.
Not saying that's the case but all this nonsense seems like a good example for when developers are out of touch with the people actually playing their games and listening too much to these so called professional journalists complaining about mechanics or features they either know too little or jack shit about or would like to work just like in Skyrim or any of the shallow Bioware titles as of late.

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

The experimentation will likely occur when you gather ingredients to upgrade the potions, which might go in dinferent ways, upgrading duration, potency, less negative effects, more charges per alcoholic base, etc. However, even crafting the potions for the first time can be a bit experimental, if they do it like with the crafting of equipment, you find the recipe, it has certain elements needed, but you can choose what type of those elements needed you want to use, and that affects the resulting potion.

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

It's beyond me why they even bother with reintroducing the alcohol base from the first game when you no longer can restock your supply of potions the traditional way anyway. Or am I missing something?
Experimentation, huh? Hard to believe there's even room for tinkering around in such a seemingly limited workspace.

This and a uber-hardcore feature like Insane mode in the very same game? You gotta be kidding, RED.
That's...wow, that's quite a contrast you've got there.

Yeah, after reading this I'd love to pick the devs brains too. And try to put some common sense into them.
Not saying that's the case but all this nonsense seems like a good example for when developers are out of touch with the people actually playing their games and listening too much to these so called professional journalists complaining about mechanics or features they either know too little or jack shit about or would like to work just like in Skyrim or any of the shallow Bioware titles as of late.

The most frustrating thing is that even in those times we actually get answers from the devs explaining how the system works there seems to be 2 or 3 sources (often other devs on the team, sometimes journalists (I understand the latter might have understood something wrong or stated it the wrong way)) saying the exact opposite of what they just stated.

That's why I think a video would be appropriate to "examine the damage" or rather evaluate the system and look how it REALLY woks.

 

[ReptilePZ]

That's why I think a video would be appropriate to "examine the damage" or rather evaluate the system and look how it REALLY woks.

They explained how it works in a fairly candid way during the live Q&A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=M8yctuAY570&t=2139) Not sure what more you could ask for.

 

[LarsenHQ]

They explained how it works in a fairly candid way during the live Q&A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=M8yctuAY570&t=2139) Not sure what more you could ask for.

This was about as in-depth as a puddle, sorry.
Try again.

 

[ReptilePZ]

This was about as in-depth as a puddle, sorry.
Try again.

You mean the actual system or the explanation? Because the explanation seems sufficient. As for the system itself, the only real way to know its depth is to play the game.

 

[LarsenHQ]

The suggested video demonstration explaining and showing things in-game would be a start.

 

[ReptilePZ]

The suggested video demonstration explaining and showing things in-game would be a start.

Oh, I imagine they will go into greater detail for the different systems in the game, not just alchemy, as we get closer to launch. For the time being, however, the Q&A seems to answer the basic question of 'how it works,' which is what BlackWolf was asking. It's an answer that comes straight from the developers, so no need to guess if the journalist who wrote the preview 'got it right' or not.

 

[thislsmadness]

This and a uber-hardcore feature like Insane mode in the very same game? You gotta be kidding, RED.
That's...wow, that's quite a contrast you've got there.

In terms of complexity and development resources, I can't imagine a perma death option is anywhere near an entire system that has to be balanced across every other aspect of the game. And lets be honest, there is nothing "uber hardcore" about the way alchemy worked in Witcher 2 either. I'll accept that brewing is a bit more immersive, but from a mechanics perspective it was about as dumbdowned as you can get.

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

Oh, I imagine they will go into greater detail for the different systems in the game, not just alchemy, as we get closer to launch. For the time being, however, the Q&A seems to answer the basic question of 'how it works,' which is what BlackWolf was asking. It's an answer that comes straight from the developers, so no need to guess if the journalist who wrote the preview 'got it right' or not.

I meant details, a look at it.

So, here is what I gathered from that Q&A:

1. Collecting ingredients is difficult and it takes some ingredients to make a potion (Good)
2. There are many recipes for potions, more than in previous games (Good)
3. There are multiple (3-5) uses for a potion (Good)
4. "Once you have made the potion, it's yours" (BAD)
5. You only need alcohol to replenish it (does it automatically replenish or do I have to trigger the replenishing within the meditation screen?)
6. Many people hoarded potions because they did not want to use them up (WRONG, not true, they hoarded them because there were way too many ingredients and making potions would give you a chance to get mutagens, also because there were only a handful of potions that were REALLY useful (maybe 4, max. 5) AND because they were to really needed and some people like it harder)

Again, it's great that getting ingredients is harder and more fun.
On the other hand, I would prefer having to get at least a small amount of the ingredients we had to get the first time to make the potion, even if it's just 1/4 or 1/16 of the original amount you needed.
I would be okay with auto-refill if not all "uses" were utilized, meaning you could "stretch" the potion with alcohol, but making the complete potion out of alcohol alone? meh.....

Then there are the questions:
Does it automatically refill or do we have to trigger the refill?
If it does automatically refill, how does it decide which potion to refill first?
Can we determine which potion we want to have refilled and in out inventory and which not? (don't want to carry around useless potions)
Are there so few ingredients that it's hard to find them? What do I do with monster-loot then (harpy claw, gargoyle heart, etc) and normal herbs? Supposing there is still monster loot, or isn't there anymore?
Will I have to travel to certain regions and places to get certain potions?
How many recipes are there for potions, or are there also "experimental" ones (a little bit like in TW1) where we can just stuff ingredients together and look what we get?

 

[juanma9]

If you can only equip two potions then there's not much room for experimentation. Swallow is a must, and then we're left with one slot: probably for Cat or Tawny Owl.

 

[BRANCHINGSTORIESFTW]

If you can only equip two potions then there's not much room for experimentation. Swallow is a must, and then we're left with one slot: probably for Cat or Tawny Owl.

Probably upgradable through the alchemy tree i guess

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

If you can only equip two potions then there's not much room for experimentation. Swallow is a must, and then we're left with one slot: probably for Cat or Tawny Owl.

Cat never helped me, at least if it's the car from TW2, I rarely needed it.
But outside of combat you can change the potions you want to equip. Must be a real chore though if you want to take a lot of different ones, imagine the numbers of slot changes you have to make in the menu just to get out, drink the potions and then make changes again.... *sign*

Anyway, I sincerely hope we will at least finally see some negative effects for toxicity (and some visual effects on Geralt).

 

[thislsmadness]

Cat never helped me, at least if it's the car from TW2, I rarely needed it.
But outside of combat you can change the potions you want to equip. Must be a real chore though if you want to take a lot of different ones, imagine the numbers of slot changes you have to make in the menu just to get out, drink the potions and then make changes again.... *sign*

Anyway, I sincerely hope we will at least finally see some negative effects for toxicity (and some visual effects on Geralt).

The impression I have to that you can only switch your "equipped" potion during meditation. So I dont think youll be able to stack effects like that anyway, the two potion restriction would be pointless if you could.

 

[schinderhannes.999]

This and a uber-hardcore feature like Insane mode in the very same game? You gotta be kidding, RED.
That's...wow, that's quite a contrast you've got there.

In terms of complexity and development resources, I can't imagine a perma death option is anywhere near an entire system that has to be balanced across every other aspect of the game. And lets be honest, there is nothing "uber hardcore" about the way alchemy worked in Witcher 2 either. I'll accept that brewing is a bit more immersive, but from a mechanics perspective it was about as dumbdowned as you can get.

In a way it does feel odd and contradicting though, and that's probably what he or she was going for there, having such a streamlined, almost care bear'ish aspect to the alchemy system while at the same time providing support for a (pretty hardcore, if you ask me) game mode that only a tiny fraction of the playerbase will even try to attempt.

Also, THIS:

Not saying that's the case but all this nonsense seems like a good example for when developers are out of touch with the people actually playing their games and listening too much to these so called professional journalists complaining about mechanics or features they either know too little or jack shit about or would like to work just like in Skyrim or any of the shallow Bioware titles as of late.

A short demo showcasing the whole process with all the UIs and menus involved would be appreciated indeed.
Definitely wouldn't convince me, but might be a good opportunity for modders to have sort of an early look at the mess and pre-evaluate if there's still hope and the system could be fixed in the short term.

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

The impression I have to that you can only switch your "equipped" potion during meditation. So I dont think youll be able to stack effects like that anyway, the two potion restriction would be pointless if you could.

The way I understood it it's like that:

You have only 2 potion slots which you can use during combat, but if you are out of combat you can switch them all the time by accessing the inventory.
That way the 2 potion restriction serves the purpose of preventing you from just taking all the potions you need during combat, which in turn forces you to prepare yourself properly or be less comfortably equipped in a fight.

 

[thislsmadness]

In a way it does feel odd and contradicting though, and that's probably what he or she was going for there, having such a streamlined, almost care bear'ish aspect to the alchemy system while at the same time providing support for a (pretty hardcore, if you ask me) game mode that only a tiny fraction of the playerbase will even try to attempt.

I'm just not sure how clicking on a recipe in a UI and consuming a few of the hundreds of reagents in your inventory constitutes "hardcore" gameplay. As I said, I could accept the "immersion" argument, but there is nothing skilled about it, especially to the degree of getting through the game without dying on the hardest difficulty.

The way I understood it it's like that:

You have only 2 potion slots which you can use during combat, but if you are out of combat you can switch them all the time by accessing the inventory.
That way the 2 potion restriction serves the purpose of preventing you from just taking all the potions you need during combat, which in turn forces you to prepare yourself properly or be less comfortably equipped in a fight.

The potion/bomb/mutagen inventory is specifically under the "Meditation" tab, its the only thing under there. So it makes sense that that will be done while meditating.

 

[frivolousam]

1. Collecting ingredients is difficult and it takes some ingredients to make a potion.

Nice. For one thing in DAI, (playing with gamepad) it was hard to not loot anything; 1 out of 2 jump attempts ended with loot animation. Let me climb/jump over that shit dammit. It's nice that ingredients will be wide spread -based on "it's difficult to collect them".

 

[TheDeathRun]

Will I have to travel to certain regions and places to get certain potions?

That would be really cool, and more realistic as well. I don't think one herb could spread itself all over the extremely different climates of the landmasses we'll be visiting, so having different herbs in different climates makes sense.

If that's the case though, then I can personally see the auto-refill in a good light. Imagine having to repeatedly gather Swallow's herbs spread throughout different regions of the world - for the duration of at least one hundred hours of gameplay. Together with the fact that Swallow likely isn't the only commonly used potion, this would tilt the balance of gameplay more to the side of annoying and tedious than to the side of pleasurable lore-friendliness - at least in my opinion. Every time you exhausted your potion supply, it's a trip around the world again. Or possibly even worse, it's a trip to the apothecary for overpriced herbs (overpriced because the herbs aren't locally available, based on CDPR's claim of a dynamic economy). Both are either an unnecessary usage of time or an unnecessary usage of money respectively.

Therefore, auto-refill based on alcohol is a decent compromise. Making the potion for the first time would be memorable because you still have to travel to different regions to get the herbs. Subsequently, when you run out of alcohol, you can buy it from the tavern (assuming alcohol is globally available, which it probably is). You are not incentivized to hoard herbs, nor are you excessively punished (Marco Polo trips/expensive bulk purchases) should you happen to run out of alcohol.

Of course, this only makes sense if certain herbs are only available in certain regions. If not, then... well, then auto-refilling with alcohol might turn out weird after all. We'll have to wait and see.