The Witcher 3 Alchemy System

[moonknightgog]

As Damien mentioned, the difficulty will come from the enemies dealing more damage, thus the accent on the player skill and being able to avoid getting hit. Depending on the damage increase and enemy AI, it could turn out to be hard enough. Also the part with getting less experience on higher difficulties also could affect things.

Having a drinking animation is something that could affect the difficulty, like in the first Witcher, by making you stand still and get pummeled, but it's about balance in the end. Having sufficient difficulty, being fun to play and not being too annoying.

The challange comes from the complexity, not from the healt and hit points of the trash mobs.
Drink potion in combat adds challange because you have to hit the right "time slot" to drink the potion without being hit from the enemies.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

They changed normal potions for a reason. That has nothing to do with Mutagenic potions, they are a separate thing. Why doesnt it apply to mutagenic potions? Because of game balance. They decided that mutagenic potions would be rare and powerful and they don't have to apply the same "autofill" design to something that they dont intend for you to be using often. Normal potions: intended to be used often, autorefill makes sense. Mutagenic potions: not used often, autorefill is unnecessary.

That doesn't answer the question why they decided in the first place that potions should be used more often. And that's the whole crux of the issue. Once you answer that question you will see how all of that is connected...

Until then, there is nothing left to discuss here between us.

And yes, it is exactly like the loot situation where they decided to scale some loot because "it sucks finding a bunch of weapons you cannot use". Why don't they apply that to legendary/unique items as well? Because unique items are distinguished from normal loot and they dont have to abide by the same game rules. Not all loot is created equal, nor potions.

I find the loot system equally lacking tbh. Another example for casualization and "open-world-isation". But that's a topic for a different thread..

 

[val.mitev]

The challange comes from the complexity, not from the healt and hit points of the trash mobs.
Drink potion in combat adds challange because you have to hit the right "time slot" to drink the potion without being hit from the enemies.

If we are talking about hitting the right moment, then we should focus on dodging and parrying in the right moment, not when to get a sip.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

Geralt is a mutant so he should be able to control the exact moment they digest...

Sure. He is a mutant. So he should also be able to control time, transform into a sheep or bear of wolf or whatever form he likes, read people's minds, run faster than a horse and last but not least be able to change his hair color from white to red any time.

I really hate that approach of trying to find some way to make up stories to make something just fitting the lore. Why not just accepting that it obviously breaks the lore?

 

[moonknightgog]

If we are talking about hitting the right moment, then we should focus on dodging and parrying in the right moment, not when to get a sip.

Actually, it works in the same way.
You want to drink a potion? Ok, do it, but you have to be careful.

Another choice would be that you can drink a potion even outside the combat, with a potion duration much longer.
Like in TW 1. In TW 1 Swallow has the duration...about 1:30 h in game. Tawny owl has 8 h in game. Etc...

 

[Lieste]

Yep. Nihil novi sub sole, but thanks for sharing as ReptilePZ said. Though the 30 second effect duration I must've forgot. I thought that we could at least get a minute or two before the imbibed effects wore out.

You have decotations (1800 seconds) and elixirs (~30 seconds, several "bursts", like hormones such as Adrenaline released under 'demand' by the creature... in this case voluntarily). Both can be modified by alchemy skills active, all of which increase duration "a bit", and some have profound increases in duration (until toxicity falls as one example).

There may be additional effects from mutagens and the few unseen utility skills too.

 

[thislsmadness]

That doesn't answer the question why they decided in the first place that potions should be used more often. And that's the whole crux of the issue. Once you answer that question you will see how all of that is connected...

Until then, there is nothing left to discuss here between us.

I can't think of any other way to explain why different things are different.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

I can't think of any other way to explain why different things are different.

I know that they are different. That's not the issue. Answer the question or you'll never understand.

 

[thislsmadness]

I know that they are different. That's not the issue. Answer the question or you'll never understand.

I've answered the question 3 times. And the response is that they are different systems so it doesnt matter anyway.

 

[GHOSTMD]

Well reading the Dev Spotlight with Damien:

also read the alchemy question he answered.... first thing i recognized

things like Cat (its effect being more similar to W2 than W1)

Well .... FUCK i say... lets hope it will not be the complete shitty TW2 X RAY heartbeating
effect.... that one SUCKED .... yes TW2 cat effect SUCKED and caused me NOT to use CAT potion
at all.

Also... i am still not "convinced" by the whole refilling system... but i will see in the great game itself

 

[Scholdarr.452]

I've answered the question 3 times. And the response is that they are different systems so it doesnt matter anyway.

That's not the question I mean. Not at all.

But anyway, it's getting tedious...

 

[thislsmadness]

That's not the question I mean. Not at all.

But anyway, it's getting tedious...

Wow, we agree!

 

[Bellator Pius Gratus]

You have decotations (1800 seconds) and elixirs (~30 seconds, several "bursts", like hormones such as Adrenaline released under 'demand' by the creature... in this case voluntarily). Both can be modified by alchemy skills active, all of which increase duration "a bit", and some have profound increases in duration (until toxicity falls as one example).

There may be additional effects from mutagens and the few unseen utility skills too.

So decoctions and elixirs you say? That does indeed sound interesting. Thanks. :happy:

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

That doesn't answer the question why they decided in the first place that potions should be used more often. And that's the whole crux of the issue. Once you answer that question you will see how all of that is connected...

It's a very simple and straightforward answer, I even heard some developers say it quite literally last year: we want alchemy to be a bigger part of the game, and one thats more integrated with the core gameplay.

Now each person can either like that or not but Its a simple concept like I said, its going against black and white, and instead dealing with shades of gray. Instead of having alchemy be this all or nothing aspect, where most fights it doesnt even exist, and in others does, they are trying to keep it always being a part of the game even minimally, trying to eliminate this binary functionality, and add more consistency to its use, together with more complexity and different degrees (otherwise all potions would become too "common").

Their intent was that alchemy goes from being:

1 or 0, true or false

to 1, 2, 3, 4 and whatever else.

So it never reaches 0, alchemy never "stops existing" within the practical considerations of normal gameplay. Of course, this is if they actually succeed, one could just not use potions ever and its 0 once again, and I actually think they wont solve it the way they are going, but thats besides the point.

 

[azrael.1289]

Of course, this is if they actually succeed, one could just not use potions ever and its 0 once again, and I actually think they wont solve it the way they are going, but thats besides the point.

By the way the system sounds now, I will make extensive use of it this game. So, they have succeeded with me.

 

[val.mitev]

And by the way, in the RPG world casualization and "saving player time" often mean very similar things.

That's now always the case.

You mix different systems up here. How potions are used and how they are created are actually two different things.

They may be different systems, but they can't be designed in isolation, because they are very tightly connected and they need to work well together.

---------- Updated at 09:19 AM ----------

Actually, it works in the same way.
You want to drink a potion? Ok, do it, but you have to be careful.

Another choice would be that you can drink a potion even outside the combat, with a potion duration much longer.
Like in TW 1. In TW 1 Swallow has the duration...about 1:30 h in game. Tawny owl has 8 h in game. Etc...

I understand what you mean, but in the end it's just a matter of balancing the combat.
Does having a drink animation that could leave you vulnerable for a moment enhance the gameplay? How profound is the effect and is it fun or just annoying?

As Damien said, they have guys that do thorough game system analysis, so I'm sure there was enough evidence to support the current implementation.

 

[echohaxorelite]

so I'm sure there was enough evidence to support the current implementation.

Whats the current implemntation?.. i have not been keep up to date in the forums for a while? and would like to know about the potions in a simple quick way instead of reading through a lot of "replies" in this thread lol... im lazy in one way sometimes :S

By the way check out the links thread i posted some links and upcoming news

 

[val.mitev]

Whats the current implemntation?.. i have not been keep up to date in the forums for a while? and would like to know about the potions in a simple quick way instead of reading through a lot of "replies" in this thread lol... im lazy in one way sometimes :S

What I had in mind is the lack of a drinking animation in particular, but also the rest of it, like using potions during combat, auto refill and so on.

Some people have an issue with that and I understand their discontent, but I still think that it's not that big of a deal, at least to me the current one seems to be working fine.

 

[echohaxorelite]

What I had in mind is the lack of a drinking animation in particular, but also the rest of it, like using potions during combat, auto refill and so on.

Some people have an issue with that and I understand their discontent, but I still think that it's not that big of a deal, at least to me.

Yeah it doesn't really phase me the animation though it would be a bonus

has there been gameplay to show any use of potions yet?

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

It's a very simple and straightforward answer, I even heard some developers say it quite literally last year: we want alchemy to be a bigger part of the game, and one thats more integrated with the core gameplay.

Now each person can either like that or not but Its a simple concept like I said, its going against black and white, and instead dealing with shades of gray. Instead of having alchemy be this all or nothing aspect, where most fights it doesnt even exist, and in others does, they are trying to keep it always being a part of the game even minimally, trying to eliminate this binary functionality, and add more consistency to its use, together with more complexity and different degrees (otherwise all potions would become too "common").

Their intent was that alchemy goes from being:

1 or 0, true or false

to 1, 2, 3, 4 and whatever else.

So it never reaches 0, alchemy never "stops existing" within the practical considerations of normal gameplay. Of course, this is if they actually succeed, one could just not use potions ever and its 0 once again, and I actually think they wont solve it the way they are going, but thats besides the point.

There are still BETTER ways to do that.
Okay, let's say I WOULD be okay with BASIC potions refilling automatically. Then at LEAST make it so that I need ingredients EVERY TIME I want to make an ADVANCED/UPGRADED potion.

That would keep the ingredient gathering aspect (not a lot needed, just a few leaves for each upgraded potion vial) while still providing you with the option to ALWAYS have potions in your inventory after meditation. Only basic ones, sure, but you always got potions. Want more powerful ones? Collect ingredients.

I mean hell, it's not like collecting ingredients is SO DAMN HARD. It's not. Plants are EVERYWHERE along the way as far as we saw on the mini-map in the gameplay footage and we know monster loot contains a lot of alchemical ingredients as well. So where is the problem?

Or - another way to do it - make the potions refill automatically but if you do not use ingredients the potions effects are REDUCED (- 40% effect).

There are SO MANY WAYS that we all recommended and suggested. But they went over them and said "nope, we want every potion, basic and upgraded to just be like a normal buff in an MMO. They can only be used a certain amount of times in combat, they are short in duration (all not a problem IMO) but they auto-refill every time you meditate as long as you got some booze".

I mean come on, we had enough ideas to keep the basic concept of making alchemy a more important part of the game without COMPLETELY abandoning the concept of ingredient gathering after the first brewing. But alas, they didn't want to.

It's just a damn shame IMO.