The Witcher 3 Alchemy System

[Scryar]

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@Scryar I suggest to just wait 12 more days (and 10 hours and 24 minutes) to see how this system turns out. Judging this so flippantly as bad or good from our chairs is very easy. What may seem like a weird choice could prove to be alright once we actually play and experience all the systems together. There are too many things we don't know yet. Worst case scenario - you wait two weeks and realize it's still crappy, but at least you'll be able to form that opinion based on a much broader information. And this is coming from someone who doesn't intuitively grasp why this is a better decision.

Well I guess at this point 12 days before release it's indeed pointless to judge if it's a bad desgin choice or not. There won't be any changes anyway.
But I disagree that I need to wait with my judgement until I play the game.
Without having played Witcher 3 I know that the lack of a potion drinking animation is a bad design choice, as there are similar games with a similar combat, which have a potion drinking animation and it doesn't damage the fluidness of the combat like Damian stated.
Both previous games having some very unbalanced elements doesn't give me much faith either....

 

[moonknightgog]

If it feels like it makes the game too easy for you and you don't like that, don't use it/take advantage of it.

What this is supposed to mean?
If something is unbalanced, is bad anyway, no matter if you use it or not.

 

[Lieste]

As long as I can max out all skills, and THEN pick from them, I'm not bothered really. And I dont see why that wouldnt be the case, the number you can use at one time is restricted anyway...

Though again, hopefully modders will fix that...along with fixing it so we need herbs for potions again. I'll wait and see, but I dont like the sound of this alcohol system, I want a reason to collect herbs throughout the game, not just on the rare occasion when I find a new potion recipe :/

Manufacture your own alcohol.

 

[PT-Desu]

What this is supposed to mean?
If something is unbalanced, is bad anyway, no matter if you use it or not.

But it's not, you got Toxicity levels.
Obviously some people will think it is and some won't, not really here to go on about this to be honest.

 

[EliHarel]

Well I guess at this point 12 days before release it's indeed pointless to judge if it's a bad desgin choice or not. There won't be any changes anyway.
But I disagree that I need to wait with my judgement until I play the game.
Without having played Witcher 3 I know that the lack of a potion drinking animation is a bad design choice, as there are similar games with a similar combat, which have a potion drinking animation and it doesn't damage the fluidness of the combat like Damian stated.
Both previous games having some very unbalanced elements doesn't give me much faith either....

We're coming from different viewpoints, then. My intuition tells me not to judge anything before I experience it in sync with everything else. That's not to say I never get a feeling or some impression that this or that is good or bad, and there are things I'm skeptical about, but I prefer putting that impression on hold. I think it's a bit pretentious to determine whether some feature is well implemented or not based on our limited and passive acquaintance with the game (and I consider even the hours of footage fairly limited in TW3's regard). Solidifying my opinion about any feature in a game when it's 2 weeks before release instead of 2 years only affects my bias before I even launch it. But that's just me, and I realize that this open-minded approach isn't popular in the official forum of a game and even a bit looked down upon. But I still don't see any benefit - to myself, most of all - of having stern opinions about anything before I have the full game. I'm the only one to suffer from that..

 

[FailFailWin]

Manufacture your own alcohol.

Is that a possibility? Does it require certain herbs or something? See that I wouldn't mind, so long as I had a reason to keep collecting herbs (I enjoy peacefully gathering herbs in games...)

 

[Lieste]

You'll always have reasons to collect some herbs ~ upgrading or building new potions. Making the single use Decoctions (30 minute potions), and if no other purpose is left making your own potion bases/alcohols.

There are also secondary ingredients ~ including Rubedo that I spotted in one play from the YT visits. What exactly this does in the context of the potion system isn't yet detailed, but their existance in the plural was confirmed by Damien, and they are manufactured by combining other ingredients.

You can also drop all your potions, though whether they will then stop autofilling isn't clear. This may be a "flag" rather than bottle based re-supply.

 

[Solid_Altair]

It seems that all food is just food and offers a small boost, which could be useful when Geralt is low level, until he brews some potions, that's why it is used interchangeably, but potions are different.
If you exhaust the uses of a potion, it won't be changed for another, because you have only one potion of a type, so there's no way another potion can take its place automatically.

That's good. I still worry about food. People can run for their lives when they regen. I worry that, even if the regen is slow, accumulating a lot of food could prove to be a little OP, since you'd have a bazilion of recovery items you can use in a single fight.

And another guy has said in the thread that you can change your potion during combat. You'd still be limited by toxicity though, so it doesn't sound tragic. The pausing involved could be bad, but I think this feature might actually be good, for providing the player with more versatility. I just wonder if they could have designed it in a different way, like providing more potion slots and scrapping silly food nonsense.

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

You'll always have reasons to collect some herbs ~ upgrading or building new potions. Making the single use Decoctions (30 minute potions), and if no other purpose is left making your own potion bases/alcohols.

There are also secondary ingredients ~ including Rubedo that I spotted in one play from the YT visits. What exactly this does in the context of the potion system isn't yet detailed, but their existance in the plural was confirmed by Damien, and they are manufactured by combining other ingredients.

You can also drop all your potions, though whether they will then stop autofilling isn't clear. This may be a "flag" rather than bottle based re-supply.

Please elaborate what you mean with flag.

As for the secondary ingredients, would be really cool if they were in. That would mean we migth be able to make multiple potions with different effecty like in TW1. for example a Swallow potion that has less toxicity or a swallow potion that adds attack speed/damage or sign intensity. Would really make the potions system a lot cooler.

That being said I really hope potions only "refill" if you have their empty vials in the inventory. That way I will be able to throw them out after 1 or 2 refills and make them all over again like it is supposed to be. Way more immersive for me (if I know where to get the ingredients).

And another guy has said in the thread that you can change your potion during combat. You'd still be limited by toxicity though, so it doesn't sound tragic. The pausing involved could be bad, but I think this feature might actually be good, for providing the player with more versatility. I just wonder if they could have designed it in a different way, like providing more potion slots and scrapping silly food nonsense.

To be honest, after those news I do not really get the whole "potion slots" thing? Is that just like the potion slot in TW1 where you have the most-used potion in there because you do want quick-access to it instead of having to open the inventory? I thought it was there to limit the use of potions in combat.

That being said, I am glad on the one hand that we actually are able to use all potions we want in combat. On the other hand I am worried it makes it too easy and preparation for combat unnecessary. I hope toxicity will be a BIG factor in the game and that everything above 60 - 80 % toxicity will start having negative effects on Geralt somehow, either immediately or at least after 2 - 3 minutes or so.

 

[Liuhu77]

Haven't read this thread thoroughly but not a lot of information received from where/how to get mutagens. I'd imagine we get them from slayed monsters and through alchemy but to what extend.. Would mutagens be a reason to harves ingredients.. ah the questions the questions.

 

[thislsmadness]

Here at around 08:25 he uses the potion.

http://www.twitch.tv/gogcom/v/4721705

The toxicity is very low, and it fades fairly quickly, so it doesn't seem to be too much of a limitation. On the other hand, that Swallow potion was very weak and didn't contribute much to health regeneration, so it seems to balance out. I do wonder now where the preparation comes into play. We'll see.

@Scryar I suggest to just wait 12 more days (and 10 hours and 24 minutes) to see how this system turns out. Judging this so flippantly as bad or good from our chairs is very easy. What may seem like a weird choice could prove to be alright once we actually play and experience all the systems together. There are too many things we don't know yet. Worst case scenario - you wait two weeks and realize it's still crappy, but at least you'll be able to form that opinion based on a much broader information. And this is coming from someone who doesn't intuitively grasp why this is a better decision.

Yeah, that swallow potion barely did anything for him. Also, later on when hes fighting the Shrieker on "Death March" his Toxicity he ends up around 80% Toxicity just from 2xSwallow and 2xThunderbolt and it It also seems to fade much slower.

I'm also surprised that you are able to swapm potions mid combat, I thought the slots were there to restrict their use. It seems more like W1 where those are basically just there so you don't have to pop open the inventory to use them.

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

Haven't read this thread thoroughly but not a lot of information received from where/how to get mutagens. I'd imagine we get them from slayed monsters and through alchemy but to what extend.. Would mutagens be a reason to harves ingredients.. ah the questions the questions.

Mutagens we get from dead monsters most of the time.
I think some mutagens (those of common monsters) might be pretty common and many in numbers, which is why we could use them in the decoctions which do - if I understood it correctly - need mutagtens as ingredients and are one-time-use longer-lasting potions. And then there are mutagens being used in the skill tree.

So this will also be a tactical decision - use it as skill or as decoction?

Some will probably be rarer (leshen mutagen?, werewolf mutagen?), others might be more frequent (wivern mutagen?).

 

[Solid_Altair]

Aw man... does the Twitch archive ever work? Is it still working for you guys?

 

[Dprelate]

Last night I finally managed to download the recent official combat gameplay from twitch.tv
everything appeared to be amazing; except one thing. Geralt uses his potions out of nowhere ! (quick slot to be exact) please note that you cannot say anything about drinking potions, because there's no drinking at all !

Geralt just uses his potions like some kind of magic spell and then suddenly BOOM, he seem to have health regeneration; some seconds later . . . BOOM again and now he slashes like hell. sorry but I can't hear him chanting ! :wallbash: :no


The idea of drinking potions out of combat and then activate in any time you want was far more better than activate them from your pocket.
I really hope that CDPR reconsider this matter. Marcin said earlier that we'd have to download a small file after the game installation and this have been incorporated in order to prevent any leaks of TW3 before the release date (DRM free). that means there's still time to fix small problems like this one.

 

[thislsmadness]

Last night I finally managed to download the recent official combat gameplay from twitch.tv
everything appeared to be amazing; except one thing. Geralt uses his potions out of nowhere ! (quick slot to be exact) please note that you cannot say anything about drinking potions, because there's no drinking at all !

Geralt just uses his potions like some kind of magic spell and then suddenly BOOM, he seem to have health regeneration; some seconds later . . . BOOM again and now he slashes like hell. sorry but I can't hear him chanting ! :wallbash: :no


The idea of drinking potions out of combat and then activate in any time you want was far more better than activate them from your pocket.
I really hope that CDPR reconsider this matter. Marcin said earlier that we'd have to download a small file after the game installation and this have been incorporated in order to prevent any leaks of TW3 before the release date (DRM free). that means there's still time to fix small problems like this one.

Its not going to be fixed because based on what the Reds have said its not broken. They don't want the drinking animation during combat because it breaks up the pace they are going for. Damien says so in his Q&A

AK-616 asked:
Is there any animation "drinking potions"?

DM: No - having this during combat totally breaks the flow of the experience we want you to have.

 

[Dprelate]

I know.
what I'm saying is that drinking out of combat (only out of combat) and then activating its effect is much better that activating a potion on a whim.

 

[P1ckleJ4r]

A question on alchemy.

Say there is 5 recipes, & you create all five because it is auto refill does that mean alchemy becomes 'obsolete' in the sense don't have to create or collect anymore?

Once you've made that's it due to auto refill? How is alchemy extended if it's just collect once create once? Isn't that detracting from the fundamentals of what makes alchemy great in an RPG if they do this?

What is their work around?

 

[TmTapani]

A question on alchemy.

Say there is 5 recipes, & you create all five because it is auto refill does that mean alchemy becomes 'obsolete' in the sense don't have to create or collect anymore?

Once you've made that's it due to auto refill? How is alchemy extended if it's just collect once create once? Isn't that detracting from the fundamentals of what makes alchemy great in an RPG if they do this?

What is their work around?

As far as I've understood it, potions do not automagically refill themselves. You need alcohol for that.

You can also upgrade your potions multiple times. Then there are singe-brew potions and possibly making your own alcohol?

 

[P1ckleJ4r]

Ok thanks heaps, was worried it was a one trick pony.

 

[schinderhannes.999]

Turns out that once you get to know where to find the necessary ingredients for each potion (basically everywhere, except the rare ones for decoctions I guess) it's perfectly fine to just throw away the empty, decharged flask and create a completely new one from scratch. Just as you're used to from The Witcher 1 & 2.

Chances are you already have enough ingredients on you to create a new potion the moment after you get rid of the used up vial anyway. Also saves you from having to meditate and let the auto-refilling kick in, which is somewhat ironic if you consider that CDPR intended the streamlined default refilling mechanic to be not just the only but also the most convenient and fastest way to ensure a steady supply of charged potions. Which perhaps would still hold true for the upgraded versions of the standard potions and/or decoctions, provided that those require some absurd amounts of somewhat harder to come by ingredients.

I guess a completely sarcasm-free 'Thanks RED' is in order. Whether this 'loophole' was just an oversight or is actually working as intended.