The Witcher 3 Alchemy System

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The Witcher 3 Alchemy System

  • Yes

    Votes: 250 24.3%
  • No

    Votes: 270 26.2%
  • I need to see it in action to be sure

    Votes: 294 28.6%
  • I prefer the system of TW1

    Votes: 363 35.3%
  • I prefer the system of TW2

    Votes: 104 10.1%

  • Total voters
    1,029
Well, as @ReptilePZ said, the activation system might still be in place. Just, for me at least, it sounded like they got rid of it, since there was no recent mention of it at all. Might be wrong though.

I hope it is not there anymore.

Otherwise the whole Mutagenic + Supportive thing makes no sense.
Except if the activation only counts for those mutagenic potions, which again would make no sense IMO.

Gameplaywise it would make sense, but it's hard to explain in a satisfying manner in terms of lore.
 
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It doesn't need to be explained really. I'm not about to question why Geralt never visits the toilet, eats or drinks water in TW2. Or how he's able to meditate in the middle of a busy street. Or why a single sword hit is not enough to kill somebody or at least remove them from the fight. It's a game and, in order for the gameplay to work, some lore sacrifices need to be made.

Now, obviously, different people draw the line for how much lore abuse they can take at different places. For me personally, as long as it doesn't alter who the character is, I am okay with it. Which is why, for example, I am okay with looting from houses instead of treating it as stealing, because Geralt as a character would not steal. If it's just looitng, then it's nothing more than some abstract mechanic that makes the gameplay work, so I am fine with it. Same reason why him using a crossbow is a no-no for me. I do not look forward to seeing Geralt builds on YouTube that heavily rely on exploiting the enemy AI and the crossbow, when Geralt is very clearly a melee character.

But activating potions on demand? Just another abstract mechainic that doesn't really make much sense but doesn't affect how the character acts or looks either.
 
It doesn't need to be explained really. I'm not about to question why Geralt never visits the toilet, eats or drinks water in TW2.

That's something COMPLETELY different. Those things are all done but not shown, while this thing here would be shown but not explained how it is done.
We all know how a toilet works or how a person eats, we do not know how an d why a Witcher should be able to control his metabolism to that extend. That is immersion breaking for me personally.

It's a game and, in order for the gameplay to work, some lore sacrifices need to be made.

Agreed but some sacrifices are too much.
Sorry, I understand the gameplay > realism (within the gameworld) standpoint, but there was never ever a mention about this ability to control the metabolism, not in the books and not in the games. And it is just ridiculous from an explanation POV, because there is not reason aside from gameplay to include it.
I agree that gameplay has priority, but if the lore is bent to an extend that it is not explainable or at least plausible anymore, in a way that it is a bothering factor for immersion then I do not like it and then I do not approve of it. I just think there could be a better solution.

But activating potions on demand? Just another abstract mechainic that doesn't really make much sense but doesn't affect how the character acts or looks either.

But that's it. For me personally potions, their use and the preparation are an important element of the Witcher, of Geralt himself, of the lore, etc.
It is also important in gameplay.
By introducing such a mechanic I personally feel pulled out of the immersion. That is only MO of course.
 
Lore is constantly thrown around in this discussion, as if it's clearcut. I don't get it, this adherence to "canon lore" regarding potions. The role potions played before the games is blown out of proportion. Throughout the seven books, potions are barely mentioned. Signs, too. Both these elements were renovated in the games. In the books they, as well as a witcher's mutations in general, weren't explored in detail. If this is argued to be lore breaking, then Signs can be too, to a degree. But again - mutations, Signs, potions, these things are left unexplored in the books. CDPR is not breaking lore by expanding on what was left a vague subject by Sapkowski.

These things are a combat tool much more than they are a story one. To be flustered because "story wise" it doesn't intuitively connect is judging a device by a standard it never catered to. But even /if/ it was strictly clear by the books that this is "lore breaking" (which I still think it isn't), so what? Let's talk about immersion.

There are so many strange magical powers in this world. Mages compress others into /statues/ (wtf?) for months, people are mutated to have cat eyes, a sorceress turns a cart of soldiers into frogs (is this Disney or a gritty medieval era?), dragons shapeshift into human form with their gear somehow appearing on them, vampires regenerate from being /beheaded/, genetically engineered individuals jump between /worlds/ and time (come on, this isn't immersion breaking? the thought that according to the Witcher universe it's possible for Ciri to suddenly pop next to me at the street, and then vanish with a "whoops, wrong place, wrong time"?). But it's the concept of a /mutant/, whose extent of mutations we are unaware of, controlling his metabolism, that raises annoyed cries defending the lore/immersion?

We choose what to accept as "yeah, sure, that's part of the world" and what to reject as "pfft, this is stupid" in a completely arbitrary manner. There are many things that stretch credibility with the Witcher franchise. Some things are straight out goofy (frogs? really?). I'm of the belief that controlling the metabolism isn't something so implausible considering all the magical powers at work. It honestly makes sense to me. But even if that wasn't the case - this is where I'd choose to draw the line and say I'm not immersed in the world? When there are so many over-the-top things? This is really one of the least whacky things in the Witcher world, and if it serves a great gameplay experience according to what CDPR experimented with, then it's very justified.
 
There are so many strange magical powers in this world. Mages compress others into /statues/ (wtf?) for months, people are mutated to have cat eyes, a sorceress turns a cart of soldiers into frogs (is this Disney or a gritty medieval era?), dragons shapeshift into human form with their gear somehow appearing on them, vampires regenerate from being /beheaded/, genetically engineered individuals jump between /worlds/ and time (come on, this isn't immersion breaking? the thought that according to the Witcher universe it's possible for Ciri to suddenly pop next to me at the street, and then vanish with a "whoops, wrong place, wrong time"?). But it's the concept of a /mutant/, whose extent of mutations we are unaware of, controlling his metabolism, that raises annoyed cries defending the lore/immersion?

No it is not because that is how the world is shown to be.

Yes, it is POSSIBLE that Witchers can control their metabolism to an extend. But this mechanic came in in the last game, was never mentioned in the books nor in the previous games. You can explain it, but not in a convincing way IMO. It makes sense from a gameplay POV but even there it has it's problems, and in terms of lore it is something unheard of and something that Geralt never used in previous games, something no Witcher used so far.

The potions and signs being mentioned rarely in the books just shows that Geralt is more of a Swordsman/Close Combat guy than a magic or alchemy guy, but the fact that those things ARE mentioned shows us that it IS used by Witchers, how often is up to the Witcher, and sometimes the author might have chosen not to mention the character takes potions because it would make the story boring if it was mentioned too often. All we needed to know was that sometimes, before hard fights, Witchers use them.

In the end it comes down to personal preference. And I personally just find it not fitting and immersion breaking. Casting signs, sure, the Dragons with the Armor (which was btw. a deliberate decision, since they did not seem to have a problem showing Triss nude when she was "de-compressed"), etc, some of them are minor details (the armor of the dragon), some of them are established things which are just not mentioned often (Signs, Potions).

The metabolism thing though is something completely new. It's like the Thermal Clips in Mass Effect. Yes, it was the best decision to do it, but it made no sense whatsoever. (In that case it would have been better that they KEPT The "overheat" and made it an effect in case you would not have any thermal clips anymore).

Such things are often handled in a way like "What are you talking about? This was ALWAYS that way" although there is no mention in previous source material.
It would just change the whole way we look at the potions, their effect, and a basic thing we did never know about Witchers.

I agree that it CAN be explained. I however do personally not like the explanation and it would be immersion breaking for me personally or let's say I would need to get used to the idea because it is really a strange one, especially since we never heard of it.

I can see the benefits but I can also see the problems with it.

I'm of the belief that controlling the metabolism isn't something so implausible considering all the magical powers at work. It honestly makes sense to me. But even if that wasn't the case - this is where I'd choose to draw the line and say I'm not immersed in the world?

If you come up with a reasonable explanation as to why he or any other Witcher didn't do it before then it would be a little bit easier to accept at least.
 
It seems like something "patched on" to the game imo, hope they got rid of it, the 2 types of potions system is way more elegant, makes way more sense and even adds another strategic element IMO
 
Some information has been said about potions. I have a concern about how it is described as "automatically refilling" Can I get some clarification and preferably information on how this system will work? Because honestly I don't really like the idea as of right now.

Check out around 4:30

[video=youtube;-CvA3reLuH8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CvA3reLuH8&feature=youtu.be&t=4m36s[/video]
 
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It's simple: You gather the herbs required to create the potion initially, you then 'have' that potion and don't need to worry about it. Unless you wish to make it more powerful, which requires another ingredient hunt. If ingredients are hard to come by and placed in interesting places (e.g. Ostmurk in TW2) I can see the system working.
 

Jupiter_on_Mars

Guest
They do mean well but this system seems silly.

Why on Earth do players need an extra incentive to use potions, hey? What's wrong with the player investing time to harvest ingredients and prepare potions at his own discretion? What does this arbitrary system achieve?

Was the old system broken in this regard?
Don't fix it then.
 
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It's simple: You gather the herbs required to create the potion initially, you then 'have' that potion and don't need to worry about it. Unless you wish to make it more powerful, which requires another ingredient hunt. If ingridients are hard to come by and placed in interesting places (e.g. Ostmurk in TW2) I can see the system working.

Ok I get it now thanks. Yeah I can see it working but I don't think it's ideal tbh, I liked the older system better as it made more sense than a refilling potion.
 
Personally, I hate gathering materials, so I actually have nothing against this system. But I can see why people might prefer the old one, I'm not really convinced either - probably would need to see it in action first.

Either way, I'm mostly indifferent to this.
 
They do mean well but this system seems silly.

Why on Earth do players need an extra incentive to use potions, hey? What's wrong with the player investing time to harvest ingredients and prepare potions at his own discretion? What does this arbitrary system achieve?

Was the old system broken in this regard?
Don't fix it then.

It is meant to do away with players not using potions 90% of the time because they are either limited in ingredients so they are too valuable and play little part in the game, or because they are too powerful and they make you OP for most normal fights.

They want to integrate potion use better with most of the game, and make it more usual. So their idea is, making normal potions useful but not so precious you should only use them in boss fights, but if you really want them to be powerful you need the key ingredients.

It can be either bad or good, but i need more details of other mechanics and balancing to judge it properly. At lest they have a valid thing to "solve" imo, they just want potions to matter more.
 

Jupiter_on_Mars

Guest
It is meant to do away with players not using potions 90% of the time because they are either limited in ingredients so they are too valuable and play little part in the game, or because they are too powerful and they make you OP for most normal fights.

They want to integrate potion use better with most of the game, and make it more usual. So their idea is, making normal potions useful but not so precious you should only use them in boss fights, but if you really want them to be powerful you need the key ingredients.

It can be either bad or good, but i need more details of other mechanics and balancing to judge it properly. At lest they have a valid thing to "solve" imo, they just want potions to matter more.

But potion management was one of the tactical dimensions of combat. Choosing which to carry, which to make and therefore which to invest time in harvesting ingredients for. This is pretty much done with ad in exchange of exactly what?
 
But potion management was one of the tactical dimensions of combat. Choosing which to carry, which to make and therefore which to invest time in harvesting ingredients for. This is pretty much done with ad in exchange of exactly what?

In exchange of for example harvesting every ingredient you can find "just in case" you use it to create a potion or a bomb and actually never using half of them while they still add to the weight limit etc. I definitely love the general idea of ingrendients & potions in The Witcher games, but grinding - not so much.

But still, I think I will need more explanation to judge if the new system is balanced and gives proper incentives and possibilities to the players that want to use potions & bombs tactically.
 
Damn, I love exploring the environments and collecting herbs, even mapping out were the good ones are to pick up more later. That is part of being a Witcher and the new system seems more like Far Cry or Assassins Creed in which you gather parts to upgrade. That combined with the whole recommended potions thing has me a bit miffed.
 
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