The Witcher 3 Alchemy System

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The Witcher 3 Alchemy System

  • Yes

    Votes: 250 24.3%
  • No

    Votes: 270 26.2%
  • I need to see it in action to be sure

    Votes: 294 28.6%
  • I prefer the system of TW1

    Votes: 363 35.3%
  • I prefer the system of TW2

    Votes: 104 10.1%

  • Total voters
    1,029
Damn, some people are really upset with this whole auto-refilling potion thing. I'll repost what I put in the E3 thread, cause it seems more appropriate here. I think it's not really a big deal, but maybe some pro's and con's will help clarify things a bit.

Pros:
-Potions will be used a lot more, without worry that they're being wasted

Cons:
-There's a possibility that you won't have a reason to collect herbs/ingredients anymore
-There's the knowledge in the back of your mind that potions are being replenished without the necessary herbs or ingredients being in your inventory

I don't really have strong feelings on this, but if you ask me, the pro's win out over here. CDPR realizes that this encourages people to use and experiment with potions a lot more. That's something that's going to actually have an effect on a lot of people's gameplay experience. Like they said, they're trying to solve the problem of people hoarding consumables in RPG's, thinking that they should save them for later. And this does solve that problem.

In terms of the cons, there could be other reasons to still collect plants and herbs. But even if there isn't, farming or collecting herbs is not really a particularly fun or dynamic gameplay mechanic, in my opinion. If it's done the same way as it was in TW2, it basically amounts to finding the plant in the wild, and then pressing a button while standing next to it.

As far as the 2nd con goes, if you think about it, that doesn't even affect gameplay. I don't think CDPR should necessarily throw out a game mechanic, just because some people can't stand the thought of knowing that potions are being replenished when the ingredients aren't all in your inventory. But anyway, like I said, I don't have particularly strong feelings about this. Whatever CDPR decides, I'm sure it will be an educated decision and come out great. ;D
 
Damn, some people are really upset with this whole auto-refilling potion thing. I'll repost what I put in the E3 thread, cause it seems more appropriate here. I think it's not really a big deal, but maybe some pro's and con's will help clarify things a bit.

Pros:
-Potions will be used a lot more, without worry that they're being wasted

Cons:
-There's a possibility that you won't have a reason to collect herbs/ingredients anymore
-There's the knowledge in the back of your mind that potions are being replenished without the necessary herbs or ingredients being in your inventory

I still think they should search for different/better solutions. I'm still voting for my suggestion to add a pharmacist in Novigrad who could make you potions for money once you brought him a receipe. You could either brew your own potions in the field with ingredients you have collected or you could buy potions at the pharmacy (which could have branches in every major settlement). This way you wouldn't have any cons. There wouldn't be any need to go searching for ingredients and plants but you could do so in order to save some money for other stuff. But because you could always buy potions there also wouldn'be a too big incentive to store powerful potions until you need them (and if you do so it's your own decision and there is no reason to discourage you in doing so).

For me "auto-features" are lazy design tbh. They are an excuse for not having any better idea.

And if searching for ingredients is a repetitive task so is fighting. Next game we replace combat with an automatic system as well? ;)
 
While playing TW1 I would always drink potions before going anywhere that could be considered dangerous. Half my inventory was filled with very small, easily manageable stacks of my favourite potions and blade coatings. When brewing my potions I would always make sure to use the appropriate ingredients in order to get the Rubedo, Albedo or Nigredo bonuses. I tell you, Geralt was buffed and intoxicated up to his eyeballs, but he would destroy ANYTHING the game could throw at me, and I felt REALLY good about it!

Sometimes its the small things that really stick in your memory, like the glee I felt when finding some Verbena in TW1, because it was crucial to one of my favourite potions (I can't remember exactly which one) or finding Scleroderm in TW2, because it contained Aether, which was one of the rarer ingredients in TW2.

I think the hoarding "problem" that they're talking about could be very easily remedied by simply giving you two or three potions per brewing session instead of one.
That way you would still have to look for ingredients and actually do some alchemy, but you could relax a little, and do it slightly less often.
Any sensible player would soon realize that by NOT using their potions, they were just cluttering up their inventory, you might even limit potion stacks to a very small number, and in this way remind people that potions were meant to be used quite often.

"A witcher without his potions is half a witcher" -Geralt of Rivia
 
I still don´t get why they changed it from TW1, it was close to perfect. You had a few potions that were useful at all times, and got some ready before you expected certain enemies, and you could drink them when you wanted. Then they introduced the mandatory meditation to drink them and removed secondary effects, and now you can activate them at will and they fill up on their own (book Geralt would have loved that feature). Why so many changes? If it isn´t broken..., now it does seem a broken mechanic, and the only reason I can think of is they feel many players are too lazy to bother learning a very simple mechanic.
 
wait wait, what? We won't be gathering herbs or creating custom potions?

Seriously, auto-refilling potions too? oh HELL NO.
 
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wait wait, what? We won't be gathering herbs or creating custom potions?

Seriously, auto-refilling potions too? oh HELL NO.

You're still going to be gathering herbs and creating custom potions.
The difference is that once you have created the potion it'll stay saved and it'll be refilled when you meditate.
Since they've added upgradable potions on top of all the potions in the game I reckon this will offset the auto refills and still require you to frequently gather herbs as you'll need a lot of them to upgrade your potions. Specifically at higher levels.
 
You're still going to be gathering herbs and creating custom potions.
The difference is that once you have created the potion it'll stay saved and it'll be refilled when you meditate.
Since they've added upgradable potions on top of all the potions in the game I reckon this will offset the auto refills and still require you to frequently gather herbs as you'll need a lot of them to upgrade your potions. Specifically at higher levels.

auto-fill is still unrealistic and is anti-rpg.

if they don't fix this maybe we can mod it to remove it.
 
I'm pretty sure our concerns will be heard. Although there's a chance that the current system is already balanced and actually works well. I don't know how long does it take to balance such features (I assume 8 monts should be enough).
@Sagitarii - Nice avatar! ;)
 
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auto-fill is still unrealistic and is anti-rpg.

if they don't fix this maybe we can mod it to remove it.

It is my biggest gripe - it's unrealistic and illogical. But I think we will reach at least some kind of compromise, even when redesigning the system will be 'impossible'.

I really hope we don't have to make mods, to repair things like this.
 
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auto-fill is still unrealistic and is anti-rpg.

Someone on another site found a solution to that, Witcher vs Wild



You wouldn't want to see the refilling of the vials.
 
auto-fill is still unrealistic and is anti-rpg.

if they don't fix this maybe we can mod it to remove it.

So you're saying on top of having to use a lot of herbs to upgrade the potions, you still want to gather herbs to create those potions?
Seems like you want a grind?
I don't like this talk where apparently realism has to supersede fun, in a video game.
I'm not talking about this issue in particular, but it's something I've seen around the forum.
Most recent being the fact that Geralt shouldn't swim because of his armor weighing him down and it's unrealistic, I mean at some point you have to stop the realism climb. They're still video games, not life simulators.
 
So you're saying on top of having to use a lot of herbs to upgrade the potions, you still want to gather herbs to create those potions?
Seems like you want a grind?
I don't like this talk where apparently realism has to supersede fun, in a video game.
I'm not talking about this issue in particular, but it's something I've seen around the forum.
Most recent being the fact that Geralt shouldn't swim because of his armor weighing him down and it's unrealistic, I mean at some point you have to stop the realism climb. They're still video games, not life simulators.

But at some point you also have to stop the "gamey" climb.
It's an RPG.
If the world and mechanics are not immersive it destroys the game.

I mean come ON !

If I want to use a potion I should f****** find the ingredients. Not once, every time I need it.
I mean where do we go from there?
Hell, if I have a rare potion the ingredients are hard to find, sure, but if I want to use low - midlevel potions I can find the herbs everywhere. On top of that, in TW2 most potions only required parts of monsters or other ingredients to make a potion, it was pretty flexible.

So now I can find herbs 1 time and then I have infinite potions? Seriously? Why not give me the potion right away.
Ahrr...... hell....
What is it with those games that they are dumped down like this?
I mean I am surely not a guy who likes to farm items, but hell, getting ingredients in TW2 was SO easy you always had at least 4 of each potion, so what the hell is the problem?

It's an RPG not an Open World Game, a ROLE PLAYING GAME. If I want to use alchemy I need ingredients. Not just once. I mean what the hell is the alchemy system for if all I need to do is get the ingredients once? A whole system and a lot of herb objects wasted for ~ 6 times I interact with them, after that I can just refill infinite amount of potions so what the hell, right?

Oh you have already upgraded your last sword with that rune? Doesn't matter, all your future swords are upgraded !
You have already used your rune? Doesn't matter, after you have the ingredients once and crafted them you can craft them as often as you want without ingredients !

It's stupid.
It's not an RPG way of doing things.
It reduces game time (because yes, I can not collect the herbs over and over again if I WANT to, I can only collect them once and then have my potions), it is immersion breaking, is a waste of a good system and makes no sense whatsoever.

I can of course not say anything final about it since I do not know enough, but this doesn't sound good.
I have to get more information on this...
 
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So first of all, that system is not best but unless you played on hard in both previous games you didn´t have to use the poitions at all and honestly there was always enough of potion resources to have poitions you need in both games. It never happened to me that I ran out of poitions and I used them a lot. Very important thing is that potions now need along with positive also negative effect with same weight so you have to use them wisely depending on oponent.
 
But at some point you also have to stop the "gamey" climb.
It's an RPG.
If the world and mechanics are not immersive it destroys the game.

Oh no doubt about that. You have to have some sort of grounding in reality of course. I just brought it up because some of the requests, demands even, were replacing something that makes the game fun for the sake of realism, and like I mentioned as well, I'm not particularly talking about this new potion system.
I mean come ON !
If I want to use a potion I should f****** find the ingredients. Not once, every time I need it.
I mean where do we go from there?
Hell, if I have a rare potion the ingredients are hard to find, sure, but if I want to use low - midlevel potions I can find the herbs everywhere. On top of that, in TW2 most potions only required parts of monsters or other ingredients to make a potion, it was pretty flexible.
So now I can find herbs 1 time and then I have infinite potions? Seriously? Why not give me the potion right away.

Ahrr...... hell....
What is it with those games that they are dumped down like this?
I mean I am surely not a guy who likes to farm items, but hell, getting ingredients in TW2 was SO easy you always had at least 4 of each potion, so what the hell is the problem?

It's an RPG not an Open World Game, a ROLE PLAYING GAME. If I want to use alchemy I need ingredients. Not just once. I mean what the hell is the alchemy system for if all I need to do is get the ingredients once? A whole system and a lot of herb objects wasted for ~ 6 times I interact with them, after that I can just refill infinite amount of potions so what the hell, right?

Please keep in mind if they implement this system it will be balanced WITH this system in mind. It's not going to be just find one herb craft the potion and have it infinitely. It'll most likely require a sizable amount of herbs with a recipe to craft each potion. And then to upgrade the potions will require a larger number of herbs each time you upgrade that potion. So it would mean you would still be collecting herbs all the time.

It would be a system that would give you a certain number of refills when you meditate.
Think of the way Dark Souls handles it's Estus Flask and Bonfire system.
For example:
You would meditate and prepare for combat and it would refill 2 flasks of the potion you have equipped. You will now have 2 flasks of that potion to use in the upcoming battle, once you use them up in combat you have to wait for next meditation. This would create this strategic planning to consider what potion you want to bring into combat and when to use them.
Instead of say a system where you just stock the hell out of a bunch of that potion, multiple potions even, and chug them as soon as the effect wears off.
And it really would solve the RPG problem of people hoarding a bunch of potions for later, and that later never becoming now.
It's something I've personally experienced myself now that I think of it. And a lot of other gamers have too. (It's somewhat of a psychological phenomenon of the mind. I'm sure there's some studies done on this effect. I'll see if I can dig one up.)

Oh you have already upgraded your last sword with that rune? Doesn't matter, all your future swords are upgraded !
You have already used your rune? Doesn't matter, after you have the ingredients once and crafted them you can craft them as often as you want without ingredients !
This potion system doesn't work anything like this but okay.

It's stupid.
It's not an RPG way of doing things.
It reduces game time (because yes, I can not collect the herbs over and over again if I WANT to, I can only collect them once and then have my potions), it is immersion breaking, is a waste of a good system and makes no sense whatsoever.
Again it would be a system to keep herb collecting functional. When a new system is implemented it doesn't mean just one aspect is changed and it breaks all the others. It's an entire system that relies and functions on itself.
 
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Let me clear up some things regarding alchemy as I see that it stirred up some vivid discussions over the past few pages:

Right now we drink elixirs during combat, just like it was in our first game. Their effects, however, don't last long but you can drink them at will - you have to keep an eye on the toxicity effect though. To create new elixirs or to upgrade the ones you already have, you will need to find proper ingredients. Already owned potions will be replenished during meditation.

Besides elixirs, there are also mutagens, which are extremely toxic. Opposed to potions, you can only drink them while meditation. Their effects are permanent and they last until cancelled during meditation or replaced by another mutagen effect.

In our opinion this design combines the best features from both of our previous games. Some players may play around with maximizing effects by managing different mutagens and elixirs, while others may just drink a few mutagens and not worry about checking the toxicity level of elixirs and mutagens in combat. Mutagens are permanent.

We wanted to solve a problem that's present in RPG's since we can remember - saving consumables for later, and that later never comes. We keep waiting and stashing more and more, sometimes even hundreds of potions/bombs/etc. in the inventory. We think that this solution will be better

Well, everyrthing sounds fine.
Again until the point where the potions refill themselves.
Not cool.
I mean yeah, saving up ingredients for later was always a part of it.
But it also was part of the fun for me.
You had the risk vs reward. Reward was the fight was easier, risk was you might have met an enemy later on and have no potions left, so the fight would be hard.
What we have now basically means that we can take every potion we did create 1 time any time we want.
And mutagens are mutagens, only in another system now and you can only use 1 of them apparently and they add to toxicity (which makes no sense since mutagens are supposed to alter the DNA)

Very important thing is that potions now need along with positive also negative effect with same weight so you have to use them wisely depending on oponent.

Agreed on this point.

Negative effects causes by toxicity should be in the game.

Please keep in mind if they implement this system it will be balanced WITH this system in mind. It's not going to be just find one herb craft the potion and have it infinitely. It'll most likely require a sizable amount of herbs with a recipe to craft each potion. And then to upgrade the potions will require a larger number of herbs each time you upgrade that potion. So it would mean you would still be collecting herbs all the time.

But doesn't that mean either your potions get stronger and stronger every time you upgrade or - if there are a limited amount of upgrades - you will at one point not have anything left to upgrade?

IMO you should at LEAST, every time you want to make a stronger portion than the "normal" version, have to collect the special upgrade ingredient again.

Again it would be a system to keep herb collecting functional. When a new system is implemented it doesn't mean just one aspect is changed and it breaks all the others. It's an entire system that relies and functions on itself.

But for how long?
Once you found all the potions and done all the upgrades you are done. No alchemy anymore.
Not even the feeling of brewing yourself a potion, the feeling of this preparation.
I don't like it.
 
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auto-fill is still unrealistic and is anti-rpg.

if they don't fix this maybe we can mod it to remove it.

So you're saying on top of having to use a lot of herbs to upgrade the potions, you still want to gather herbs to create those potions?
Seems like you want a grind?
I don't like this talk where apparently realism has to supersede fun, in a video game.
I'm not talking about this issue in particular, but it's something I've seen around the forum.
Most recent being the fact that Geralt shouldn't swim because of his armor weighing him down and it's unrealistic, I mean at some point you have to stop the realism climb. They're still video games, not life simulators.

I'm in this weird spot where I actually agree with both of these points. I want the Witcher 3 to have a proper system to keep the immersion but yes I want the game to be fun to play first and foremost, and I completely understand that somethings (like swimming in armour) need to stick around. (which is why I never bothered to complain about that mechanic)
 
So you're saying on top of having to use a lot of herbs to upgrade the potions, you still want to gather herbs to create those potions?
Seems like you want a grind?
I don't like this talk where apparently realism has to supersede fun, in a video game.
I'm not talking about this issue in particular, but it's something I've seen around the forum.
Most recent being the fact that Geralt shouldn't swim because of his armor weighing him down and it's unrealistic, I mean at some point you have to stop the realism climb. They're still video games, not life simulators.
The point was that he should doff his armour before swimming just like Kenway does in AC IV.

And as I said before, why not just buying potions at a pharmacy if you don't want to create them yourself? I don't get why "auto-refill" is needed in any way to make the game more fun. It's just bad design.
 
The point was that he should doff his armour before swimming just like Kenway does in AC IV.

And as I said before, why not just buying potions at a pharmacy if you don't want to create them yourself? I don't get why "auto-refill" is needed in any way to make the game more fun. It's just bad design.

Exactly.
If you don't want to search for ingredients buy them from merchants, and if you don't even want to create the potions then make a special Witcher-contact-man available in cities who gets you the potions (of course only if you have the recipe).
Or...I don't know, make it an option that you can toggle off the auto-refill? Or make it so that less incredients give you a fair amount of potions (5?). Or like that other guys said in a post I read recently make it so that you can use a potion... 3 times. This means you only have to create a new one every 3 times. Then you can buy bigger vials which allow you to take a potions 5 times or 8 times.
That way you can still have the alchemy potion-making and ingredients-searching but you don't HAVE to.
On the other hand you would not have to buy bigger vials if you didn't want to, or in the other case, you could just toggle the auto-refill off.

I like the "upgrades" idea, I really do. But why not make the incredients of the "nomal potions" available everywhere then and the "upgrade" incredients harder to find.

As for the mutagenic potions idea.... as long as the actual MUTAGENS are still in in another way I am okay with it, but if that is the way you include mutagens I have to ask myself why you basically reduced 2 fundamental systems so much? Mutagens are here to alter your character permanently. You can't just switch it on or off because they alter your DNA.

Those design decisions are really not in harmony with the lore, neither with the book lore NOR with the previous games lore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F51TCB6QozU

High toxicity having negative effects => GOOD design decision
"People kept their potions" => I never kept potions, I used them like all the time. And if I once didn't use them it was because either I forgot them or because the duration was so short and I couldn't take them in combat. I never kept my potions, I had so many of them I could basically use them all the time. And I did.
 
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Right now we drink elixirs during combat, just like it was in our first game.
That's also kinda odd. Especially it looks strange with considering of the new system of delayed activation of potions' effects - I thought that it's supposed to be a solution for problem of delays between preparation and combat. And now we're speaking about in-combat drinking - so, what's the purpose of delayed activation system?

It's not an end of the world and I love the first game, but preparing from TW2 makes much more sense, in my opinion.
 
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