The Witcher 3 Alchemy System

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The Witcher 3 Alchemy System

  • Yes

    Votes: 250 24.3%
  • No

    Votes: 270 26.2%
  • I need to see it in action to be sure

    Votes: 294 28.6%
  • I prefer the system of TW1

    Votes: 363 35.3%
  • I prefer the system of TW2

    Votes: 104 10.1%

  • Total voters
    1,029
That tea-bag analogy for the new system is very poor since we are talking about infinite auto-refills, presumably without any ingredients. I would actually be fine with it if it worked like real tea-bags.

Herbs and other alchemical ingredients could have repetitive usages, with a degradation property so that every time you meditate you wear the material out in order to auto-refill your stock. So when you finally use it up and the ingredients perish, there would be no more auto-refills and you would need to gather fresh ones. Of course, an option to enable/disable which consumable you want auto-refilled, and using which particular ingredients would be needed for maximum player control. And like diluted tea-bags in real life, they could take it a step further by have diminishing yields for each use, so that you would have a trade off of not having to go around and gather stuff, for weaker versions of the consumables. You can then have skills in the alchemy development tree which gives the ingredients greater durability, which would make sense as your alchemy processes become more efficient with higher expertise.

I would also like to see the return of alcohols as potion bases (as well as consumables), so that the strength of these also affect the strength of the potions. Alcohols could also work with a degradation mechanic or just have a set number of uses per bottle.

I would be perfectly fine with a system like this, especially since the whole thing would actually make logical sense. However, I don't think this is what they're doing. They seem to be shooting for a simple, infinite auto-refilling system without any hassle whatsoever. If that is the case, the gross simplification and the fact that it doesn't make sense would seriously put me off. I did like the two tier potion system mentioned in the interview. That sounds interesting.

Totally agree , this would be a much more logical solution(still doesn't beat the good old "we pick up the ingredients and alcohol and brew are own potions" though)

@ONLY ONCE
I don't really understand why people want to get lost in potion making or bomb crafting, it's so boring

The thing is, many people(if you look at the poll it seems like the majority) actually enjoy alchemy and consider it an important part of the experience, to me its because of two reasons: 1- I really enjoy that part of RPG's, the deeper the better for me 2: Having read the books, I really like how alchemy brings you closer to Geralt from the books, the 52 and a half trailer is exactly how I wished meditation and preparation for battle looked like because its so close to the books.

The way I see it, CDPR eliminated a minor nuisance for people who didn't enjoy brewing potions, but did it in a way that severely harmed the experience for those who liked it.

@thislsmadness
because others aren't trying to play the game like its real life doesn't mean they cannot enjoy the world or become immersed in it. There is no right or wrong when it comes to immersion, it is an entirely personal experience. There are people that say that the lack of character customizable breaks their immersion. Others think voice acting breaks immersion because "reading text is more intimate". None of them wrong... until they start deriding others for not enjoying the same things they do.
Thats just my opinion, but I do apologize, was a little too harsh with the words
 
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Totally agree , this would be a much more logical solution(still doesn't beat the good old "we pick up the ingredients and alcohol and brew are own potions" though)

@ONLY ONCE


The thing is, many people(if you look at the poll it seems like the majority) actually enjoy alchemy and consider it an important part of the experience, to me its because of two reasons: 1- I really enjoy that part of RPG's, the deeper the better for me 2: Having read the books, I really like how alchemy brings you closer to Geralt from the books, the 52 and a half trailer is exactly how I wished meditation and preparation for battle looked like because its so close to the books.

The way I see it, CDPR eliminated a minor nuisance for people who didn't enjoy brewing potions, but did it in a way that severely harmed the experience for those who liked it.

@thislsmadness

Thats just my opinion, but I do apologize, was a little too harsh with the words
Oh I think we are still picking herbs, I think once we have found the right stuff it unlocks it as an auto fill upgrade maybe. Konrad said each potion and bomb set has like 3 upgrades, I think it will be a good choice if it is well balanced.
I do like picking herbs and some crafting but I don't want it to become a chore that's all. If I can master the art of it and move on to the next big thing I will.
i.e Lets say the average main quest is about 3 Hrs and at some point within each hour and location of whatever quest we are caught up in. Be it beginning, middle or end of the game, we are reminded in our quest-log to find some different herbs in such and such place, at such and such time or whatever. Maybe one grows on a monster itself who knows. Or maybe it is just side quest stuff that opens up these potion/bomb upgrades. All I know is... I am very intrigued to see just how all this new system stuff really plays out.;)
 
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Oh I think we are still picking herbs, I think once we have found the right stuff it unlocks it as an auto fill upgrade maybe. Konrad said each potion and bomb set has like 3 upgrades, I think it will be a good choice if it is well balanced.
I do like picking herbs and some crafting but I don't want it to become a chore that's all. If I can master the art of it and move on to the next big thing I will.
i.e Lets say the average main quest is about 3 Hrs and at some point within each hour and location of whatever quest we are caught up in. Be it beginning, middle or end of the game, we are reminded in our quest-log to find some different herbs in such and such place, at such and such time or whatever. Maybe one grows on a monster itself who knows. Or maybe it is just side quest stuff that opens up these potion/bomb upgrades. All I know is... I am very intrigued to see just how all this new system stuff really plays out.;)

Yes I know we have to collect plants for upgrades, but what I mean is that many people like having to do those "chores" once every 2 main quests or so, to me its great for getting you in touch with the world, but in my case(and probably the case of many people who voted in the poll) I just plain enjoy having the herbs and actually brewing the potions, and collecting herbs just for upgrades does not satisfy the alchemy lust, and if they absolutely have to solve the fact that some players(I particularly played W2 on hard and dark and never had that problem) don't use potions in order to save them for later, there are many other ways that (some very good ones where suggested here in this thread) would solve the problem without creating a worse one
 
P: Will you be able to bunch up on potions? You can use one, and then refill it later, but can you have multiple uses in a given moment?

K: Yeah, actually we’ve got two types of potions.


  1. One of them are mutagens, and most potions you’re taking in the preparation mode, and those potions have got a very long duration, but also give you a lot of toxicity.
  2. And you’ve got small potions, which are used instantly in combat. They give you less toxicity, and they also refill in the inventory. And you’ve got these stacks of these potions, the smaller ones.

Ok, this sounds to me that the upgraded potions (mutagens) do not replace the basic small potions and also do not refill,
otherwise why would he say that the small one's refill but not the mutagens (which are the ones you use most of the time).

The auto-refilled potions are only the small potions which you use instantly in combat,
but I'm still not sure about that part :huh:.
 
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The whole idea smells very dark soulish, it depends how they implemented it. I need to see the system first to properly evaluate it, but i need to say that the system in witcher 1 was probably one of my favorite systems created in any game. I mean alcohol bases - weak alcohol you can buy in every tavern so you almost never run out of weak potions, the duration of potions was also spot on. When you drink it you have those cool upgrades for hours but you also can't just drink another health potion because of toxicity, it's very good implementation of risk reward system.

I think that they shouldn't try to fix things that work, and alchemy system from witcher 1 works very, very well. I don't know about auto refill system, it may end up cool, it depends how they balanced it , i won't judge.
 
Looking through the latest videos I noticed that Swallow is now a potion for use in battle, probably working like a standard health pot in most games, instead of enhancing vitality regeneration.
Not entirely sure if I like this change. It might not be as bad, if you won't be able to "outpot" a really strong monster by killing it fast. With increased regeneration you couldn't really kill monster that hit hard easily, unless you ran around for a bit to regenerate health, so you wouldn't get killed with one hit.
Pic related.
 
@Daywalker30
Marcin already explained how it works in a post (E3 discussion thread I think?)... All potions (And Mutagens) auto-refill when you meditate.

@scarfless
Sadly in none of the Demos did they consume the Swallow potion, so we don't how how long it lasts for or it's precise effect etc. However it has always been a Vitality Regeneration potion, so I doubt it would have been changed to a typical 'Health Potion'. I assume if they do have a potion which works like a typical HP pot they'll just put White Raffard's Decoction back in.
 
@scarfless
Sadly in none of the Demos did they consume the Swallow potion, so we don't how how long it lasts for or it's precise effect etc. However it has always been a Vitality Regeneration potion, so I doubt it would have been changed to a typical 'Health Potion'. I assume if they do have a potion which works like a typical HP pot they'll just put White Raffard's Decoction back in.
We know that you can use these "small potions" during the battle and considering that the potion has 3 charges (which should all be usable during one battle) I assumed that it's a health pot or a significant increase in regeneration over a few seconds.
If it was the Swallow potion with the same effect as in previous games it would make more sense to use it as "mutagen" potion that is supposed to last longer.
I could always be wrong and it might have 3 charges, so that you don't need to meditate and re-apply the potion after each encounter (this way it would last at least 3 battles). Hopefully we will see the system in action soon.
 
I reckon that basically Swallow now acts like it did in W1, and I'm entirely fine with that.
 
Auto refilling, yeah, about that... I'm not a fan of the idea, but not because I see it as dumbing down the overall difficulty, nor because it doesn't make much sense, but because managing my inventory is something I find of utmost importance in any RPG. I recall the crafting system from DA2, where you only had to locate appropriate number of fixed resources, and then you could spam as many runes/potions/traps/whatever as your money could afford. I have the feeling we may end up with something similar in TW3. Or perhaps I'm wrong, and the potions will be refilled only if you have the necessary ingredients, using them up in the process. Better yet would be the option to decide which potions are to be refilled automatically, and which can be left empty. That would still provide the necessity to be on a constant lookout for ingredients.

I understand the new potions system will allow you to have only one bottle of a single potion, right? You use it up, you have to rest in order to use it again. I wonder if you can get attacked while resting:hmm:
 
I tried too, really, but I simply cannot for the love of the Mother Creatrix wrap my head around this whole auto-refilling business.



Was it really such a chore or intellectual challenge to click on the formula, have the necessary ingredients actually already locked in/preselected (with the option to swap out ingredients) and click 'Create' or push Enter?

Really?

I didn't like it so much, It took awhile to scroll through stuff and it was just like come on already I just want to play the game!!
Making all this stuff felt like some annoying mini game that I was forced to play. I don't really understand why people want to get lost in potion making or bomb crafting, it's so boring. i.e when Geralt meditates from day to night, the auto refill makes me think Geralt already did what he had to do to make these ready for my use.
I like it so I can keep moving with the story. It's not like we can't craft this stuff if we want to have a little extra on hand. I know I'll be too busy playing the game with swords and following my story while doing my best to not use potions unless I have to.
Must be a generation thing then. As in 'getting too old for this shit' or in this case, 'getting too old for this convenience'.
But it really is such a minor thing (we're talking about a bit of scrolling and a couple of times of clicking here) that it's almost comical that CDPR wasted development time on getting rid of it. Boggles the mind.
 
Must be a generation thing then. As in 'getting too old for this shit' or in this case, 'getting too old for this convenience'.
But it really is such a minor thing (we're talking about a bit of scrolling and a couple of times of clicking here) that it's almost comical that CDPR wasted development time on getting rid of it. Boggles the mind.

What do you mean? They didn't get rid of anything, crafting is still in the game. The only change is the amount of time players have to invest in it. If anything not having to fill the environment with herbs saves them development time.
 
Yup. My guess is that this is the rationale - making the potions isn't the problem, the problem is collecting the ingredients, which means the need for pickable plants, and otherwise unimportant monster parts.

Yes this ll quite consume some time in the develeopment progress :( wonder if we get and improved and advanced TW1 System here with all the looting
also improved :( >>>> poll is pretty clear... i assume on the polish side of the forums to ...
 
About the poll. It just represents the hardcore fanbase not the total of consumers (although I agree with the result).
And does someone know more about the potion upgrades? Cause if every potion has like 10 upgrades, and every upgrade requires 2-3 extra ingredients, we'll still need to put a fair amount of time in collecting ingredients imo.
 
About the poll. It just represents the hardcore fanbase not the total of consumers (although I agree with the result).
And does someone know more about the potion upgrades? Cause if every potion has like 10 upgrades, and every upgrade requires 2-3 extra ingredients, we'll still need to put a fair amount of time in collecting ingredients imo.
Every potion has 2 or 3 upgrades (it was in some interview that there's level 1,2,3 - not sure if the basic one is level 0). As for the way upgrade works, it remains a mystery.
My guess would be either quest, buying recipe (and finding ingredients) or simply trough the alchemy skill tree (this way it would be unlocked by choice - spending points).
 
For god's sake people!! Am I really the only one who loves finishing a main quest and saying "Oh look I'm low on supplies, better go restock" and going to the market buying alcohol then riding to the area where I'll find my ingredients, appreciating the view as a ride, maybe even take a few side quests on the way, brew the potions I need then going back to the market and make the bombs I like the most (in W2 it was red haze), then go play a few mini-games and get my mind off the story a bit and just ENJOY THE FUCKING WORLD, maybe craft a new sword or upgrade my horse, then finally feeling completely relaxed, restocked and ready head to the next main quest? Seriously!! Some people here just seem to want to beat the game efficiently, how will we be able to enjoy the markets, ride around the country, handle our inventory to fit our play-style if they spoon feed you like that?? To me there is nothing better than free roaming the world with a purpose, and what purpose is better to encourage you to roam the world than making you pick ingredients from time to time, I totally agree that having that all the time would be a nuisance, which is solvable with by properly balancing merchants and ingredient abundance and also by making each potion flask have more than one dose. Enjoy the world people, immerse yourselves, that is what gaming is about anyway.

EXACTLY.
I mean why should I even ride around in that world if there are just some side quests here and there and nothing more? Might as well just fast travel to nearest position all the time.
After you corssed the world 3 times it gets boring.

NOT so however if you can actually ROLE PLAY and go ahead and say things like "well, time to prepare new potions, pick up some herbs, ride around in the landscape, find some monsters to kill an restock alchemy incredients, upgrade my sword and craft a new armor piece.....

Stuff like that.
I mean HELL, if you don't WANT to do it you do not HAVE to.
And like others said, if you want to encourage alchemy then just make the MONSTERS HARDER and maybe give the player the ability to buy or craft bigger vials so 1 potion can be used MULTIPLE TIMES.

I love some of the ideas of your system (potion upgrades / more powerful versions of potions, the whole "being allowed to take max. 2 potions in battle", the toxicity (which hopefully has negative effects if too high this time around), hell even the mutagenic potions (as long as "mutagens" are still a thing separately).

But that auto-refill thing is nonsense.

Just let me BE GERALT, and don't shorten everything in a way that I do not even have the OPTION to do alchemy regularly and collect ingredients.

Ok, this sounds to me that the upgraded potions (mutagens) do not replace the basic small potions and also do not refill,
otherwise why would he say that the small one's refill but not the mutagens (which are the ones you use most of the time).

The auto-refilled potions are only the small potions which you use instantly in combat,
but I'm still not sure about that part :huh:.

It basically means the following:

Mutagenic Potions are permanent (they confirmed that), can only be taken while meditating and only be deactivated while meditating and they have high toxicity. (They are the "new Mutagens" as I understand that, or at least like Mutagens (I hope they have mutagens separately, otherwise they would have simplified and thrown together 2 systems))

The "Support" potions are your regular stuff, Swallow, Rook, etc. They can be taken in combat and you only have to craft/brew them once and then they automatically refill.

In the end all you use alchemy for are the first time you make a potion and the 3 times you upgrade them.
Then it's useless because it auto-refills.

And that is a bad decision IMO.

_______________________________________

Here are some thoughts:

  • A. For everyone who think alchemy and ingredient collecting is "boring" or a "chore":
    • 1. You don't HAVE to do it, you never had. In TW2 one could easily survive without help of potions
    • 2. If you WANT to use potions then you should also be forced to pick up the ingredients and brew them. I mean come on, where do we end if we just start shortening all systems because special elements in them are too "boring". Alchemy is a crafting system, that's how crafting works.
    • 3. While not having an auto-refill system still allows lazy players to just BUY the ingredients or ignore the alchemy system an active auto-fill system that you can NOT toggle off prevents players who WANT to do alchemy to do exactly that except if you do it the first time. That's called streamlining or dumping down
    • 4. If it is absolutely NEEDED, why don't you just let the developers build in an OPTION you can toggle in order to let the whole stuff be refilled for you, so both is possible?
  • B. Now to the "development" reasons of establishing auto-refill:
    • 1. The developers never stated that they wanted to save development resources with that. Normally CDPR is honest with us. Which we have to assume here with our first theories. The reason however why they included the system is (due to their own comments here) that they wanted to counter hoarding of potions and that they wanted to encourage the usage of the alchemy system
      • 1a. Which is IMO not even a problem
      • 1b. Also including such a system does not make people use alchemy more, it makes those who normally use it use it less (because they are forced to) and it effectively cuts parts of the system
      • 1c. With the solution A4 (above) this could have been easily achieved without FORCING a streamlining of the system
    • 2. Let's assume they really didn't tell us the "real" reasons or not "all" the reasons for this decision. Let's assume what some people say here is true and they wanted to avoid creating herbs all over the place.
      • 2a. It is not so hard to create herbs all over the place. In fact all it needs are a few herb types (of the common (not-rare) herbs), pick specific areas (big areas) where they naturally grow (probably in the wilderness more and in the villages less) and then let an algorithm just randomly spread them. The rare ones then can be added to specific places by hand, herbs get a re-grow/re-spawn time and everything works out. Not a big deal in comparison with other development tasks
      • 2b. ON TOP OF THAT Geralt always got his ingredients from monsters as well, which is even easier. Have specific monster parts drop as loot when killing them, give them a specific base and Geralt has even more ingredients (since this is Open World I expect monster respawns and a good deal of monster population in the wilderness).

I mean, if we can not expect that amount of work, what can we expect then?
How will TW3 look without that stuff?
Will monster have no loot anymore, will the world have (almost) no herbs you can collect?
What gives that world LIVE then, aside from monsters and humanoids?
How is that an RPG?
PRGs have loot, they have crafting systems, they have stuff to pick up and environments to interact with.
If that is not provided, what can we expect to be?

I'm not doubting CDPR here mind you, I am just continuing the line of thought from what this decision could affect.

The best solution is to have a REAL alchemy system and "simplify" it for people who WANT it that way (in the settings).
 
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Must be a generation thing then. As in 'getting too old for this shit' or in this case, 'getting too old for this convenience'.
But it really is such a minor thing (we're talking about a bit of scrolling and a couple of times of clicking here) that it's almost comical that CDPR wasted development time on getting rid of the repeated potion creation process. Boggles the mind.
What do you mean? They didn't get rid of anything, crafting is still in the game. The only change is the amount of time players have to invest in it. If anything not having to fill the environment with herbs saves them development time.
Should be clearer now.

Maybe herbs in the environment is still a thing, and they just weren't present or turned on, so to speak, in any of the areas shown in the E3 gameplay footage or the behind-closed-doors demo.
Populating huge areas with lootable plants, bushes and shrubberies (in a natural way) shouldn't be much of a (time consuming) problem with SpeedTree, which, iirc, is the main tool for generating/spawning all the game world's flora in The Witcher 3 as well.
 
I've said it before I don't want too much pressure on CDPR so they feel the need to rush and change things.

If this system works, if the developers believe that it's a good solution and the game is balanced around it keep it. I would rather have a fun balanced game, than a messy inventory with tons of useless loot.

( poor balance in gameplay and loot were a major problem in TW2)
 
@Marcin Momot : It would be great if someone from CDPR could elaborate on the infinite auto-refill potions/bombs system, how it works and balances the combat.

I'm sure you guys know what you are doing and maybe there is some some info we don't know of yet, but for now it sounds really like it is being casualized which would make the combat much easier and this worries me and others as well. The concern about this new system is well known so far and it would be great to know what you guys are thinking about it.

One major Aspect what I liked about the Witcher series is the Alchemy System and the preparation for an upcoming battle and that includes the gathering of ingredients for the potions/bombs/coatings, seeing this being removed/striped down makes me sad :sad:.

There is still time to at least adjust the new alchemy system (if it's really infinite auto-refill) or patch it after Release :look:
 
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