The Witcher 3 Alchemy System

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The Witcher 3 Alchemy System

  • Yes

    Votes: 250 24.3%
  • No

    Votes: 270 26.2%
  • I need to see it in action to be sure

    Votes: 294 28.6%
  • I prefer the system of TW1

    Votes: 363 35.3%
  • I prefer the system of TW2

    Votes: 104 10.1%

  • Total voters
    1,029
But when you have a potion like Swallow, the ability to turn it on and off seems OP as hell. Superior Swallow healed Geralt super fast in the PAX demo. He was pretty much invincible the whole time it was active. Now imagine being able to turn that off when you're not taking damage and then on when you are. That whole minute of invincibility has just been extended longer than it should have. And if Geralt doesn't use the whole dose by the end of the battle, he can just save it for another fight with his inner off button.

Its not a matter of turning it on/off at will. You get a finite amount of uses (2 in the video) and then thats it until you meditate. In the PAX video, Geralt is way overleveled for that quest, that Wyvern barely did any damage to Geralt when he hit him and he was nearly dead when Geralt used the thunderbolt potion, so I wouldn't take that as a knock against potions being "OP".
 
But when you have a potion like Swallow, the ability to turn it on and off seems OP as hell. Superior Swallow healed Geralt super fast in the PAX demo. He was pretty much invincible the whole time it was active. Now imagine being able to turn that off when you're not taking damage and then on when you are. That whole minute of invincibility has just been extended longer than it should have. And if Geralt doesn't use the whole dose by the end of the battle, he can just save it for another fight with his inner off button.



They haven't said how Toxicity works with the on-off potion system. And from what we saw in the PAX video, you don't get a whole lot of Toxicity from both Swallow and Thunderbolt.
I believe the potion activation thing has been discarded too, but this still leaves my issue with the shorter potion times. Superior Swallow looked like it was essentially an invincibility potion that lasted for a minute. Superior Thunderbolt let Geralt deal absolutely massive damage in a few swings to the Wyvern. A longer potion time with lesser effects would balance that out more. Of course, we haven't seen the effects of lesser potions and we don't really know if the Superior effects will change over the next 2 months, but that's just my 2 cents.

Whether it is called delayed activation or potion drinking, once you activate it, you can't stop it.
It's a short duration, so you won't be able to prolong some fights with very tough enemies and the limited doses would also help with that This will put accent on the skill of the player, not just mashing the buttons.

The Wyvern here was no match, Geralt was way too strong for him, but imagine if you came here early on, that beast could grind you to dust if you are not careful.

Also the effects are short, so once you use the potion doses, 2 in this case, you need to meditate to replenish them. Upgrading the Alchemy tree should probably increase the potions usages.
 
Simple, balancing the combat.
To get responsive combat, you want the effects immediately when you request them, the animation will just interrupt that and make you vulnerable for a brief amount of time.

I think it differently . On the contrary, when you drink a potion you become more powerful (ex. swallow or thunderbolt) and if you activate these buffs immediately without a 1 or 2 seconds interruption (drinking animation) it adds 2x to your buff because it doesn't give time to the enemy to attack you while you're vulnerable.(You really are OP in this case)

Thus, if the drinking animation is added it also means you have to think very carefully when to drink it because if you're facing a strong opponent he can remove half your health while you're immobile drinking.

This will add a lot to the tactical side of combat and to immersion.
 
If I remember correctly, in W1, Geralt just stopped and stood like an idiot drinking the potions for several seconds, which in an intense fight was deadly and diminished the usefulness to some degree. That was very annoying, it didn't add too much to the tactical aspect, it hampered it a bit.

And it's very good, because you must think, if you want use potion into fight, you must reckon with the fact that you can die

Also the auto refill is starting to make a bit more sense now, if the effects of the potions will be this short.
Having 30-60 second duration (increased through the alchemy tree), would mean that you'd need a lot of potions, and if the required amounts of ingredients is similar to W2, then you'll need lots of ingredients as well, which would turn the game into a constant ingredient farming, and I don't want that.

For me, auto refilling suck the same as all new alchemy system..

Having the potions give you huge boosts for short periods, I think it's the right way.

It's casual way...

It still promotes preparation because you are only allowed to use two potions at a given time. Presumably, you won't be able to swap them in combat, in the 35min video it looked like Geralt had to meditate to "equip" a new potion.

When you waste your potions, your character can become powerless... especially when you fight with much powerful monsters (with bigger level, than geralt)... it's much more anoing, than all drinking animation, etc.

It's a short duration, so you won't be able to prolong some fights with very tough enemies and the limited doses would also help with that This will put accent on the skill of the player, not just mashing the buttons.

Sorry, but no, mechanics only limit the player and have nothing to do with the skills, if you waste your potions, you don't have chance with powerful monsters, where fight can take a few minutes (If you fight with monster with big level, and fight take 10 min, you have only 2 min healing, if these monster get you 50%hp on one hit, you must use swallow, because next hit kill you, 2 hits, and you don't have potions = don't have support), you can't get next potions, even you have it in your backpack, and your toxic is low, because game decides for you. If potions support player as in the previous games (especially TW1), swallow health you for 10 min, but much lower, you decision have much more impact in gameplay. If you make 4 swallows, and get one, you healing regeneration is faster, for long time, but if swallow ends, you can use next (if you have low toxic). When you fight with powerful monsters, and you get hit lose 50% hp swallow don't be waste that is easily...
I hope that what I wrote is understandable :)

I like when potions support player, but now, it's MMO system... It should be mature game, where you must think (as in previous games), not stupid MMO...
 
And it's very good, because you must think, if you want use potion into fight, you must reckon with the fact that you can die

In this case, the problem is that you just need to run away to drink the potion, not much tactic needed. Just make some distance, it's more annoying than helpful.
The animation has to be quick and integrated into the flow, not long and clunky and breaking the flow, there should be a small animation time, but not a prohibitive one.

It's casual way...

So just having a potion with a duration of 30 minutes that has some negligible effect the pro way?
The potions are tools, you need to know when to use the right one and they should have a significant effect to be really useful, and not be just some constant minor buff, for that we have the mutagens.

Sorry, but no, mechanics only limit the player and have nothing to do with the skills, if you waste your potions, you don't have chance with powerful monsters, where fight can take a few minutes (If you fight with monster with big level, and fight take 10 min, you have only 2 min healing, if these monster get you 50%hp on one hit, you must use swallow, because next hit kill you, 2 hits, and you don't have potions = don't have support), you can't get next potions, even you have it in your backpack, and your toxic is low, because game decides for you. If potions support player as in the previous games (especially TW1), swallow health you for 10 min, but much lower, you decision have much more impact in gameplay. If you make 4 swallows, and get one, you healing regeneration is faster, for long time, but if swallow ends, you can use next (if you have low toxic). When you fight with powerful monsters, and you get hit lose 50% hp swallow don't be waste that is easily...
I hope that what I wrote is understandable

Actually it has everything to do with the skills. You can parry/dodge the monster, that is skill, to be able to maneuver and not get hit.

If you can have a potions that constantly heals you for 10 or 20 minutes, that's easy, you'll just run around the monster and slowly try to do damage to him and rely that even if it hits you, you'll just run some more till your health regenerates. Not much skill needed, you just soak damage and rely on the regeneration.

So either you are very good and can handle stronger monsters through skill alone, or you level up, get better gear and potions and return when you have a better chance.
 
In this case, the problem is that you just need to run away to drink the potion, not much tactic needed. Just make some distance, it's more annoying than helpful.
The animation has to be quick and integrated into the flow, not long and clunky and breaking the flow, there should be a small animation time, but not a prohibitive one.

I don't say these animation not mast be quick, but, it should be in the game.

So just having a potion with a duration of 30 minutes that has some negligible effect the pro way?
The potions are tools, you need to know when to use the right one and they should have a significant effect to be really useful, and not be just some constant minor buff, for that we have the mutagens.

We speak about Witcher, not random fantasy world, and into these world (in book too) potions have long time, and give Geralt buffs, and yes, when you can drink all potions what you want, and only toxic limits you it's much more tactical (because you must chose what potions you want, and when you use it, you can't change), than when you get potions when you must because your hp is low, etc.

Actually it has everything to do with the skills. You can parry/dodge the monster, that is skill, to be able to maneuver and not get hit.

If you can have a potions that constantly heals you for 10 or 20 minutes, that's easy, you'll just run around the monster and slowly try to do damage to him and rely that even if it hits you, you'll just run some more till your health regenerates. Not much skill needed, you just soak damage and rely on the regeneration.

Sorry, but i disagree, becouse that potion heal you much lover, than fast red MMO potions... play TW1 with Flash mod, you see. You can run, but... you probably die

So either you are very good and can handle stronger monsters through skill alone, or you level up, get better gear and potions and return when you have a better chance.

It's open world game, if they put heavy monsters, they should chance to kill them, these mechanic (only 2 fast potion use) + weapon/armour level, it effectively prevents, and make these game MMO, with monsters to farm.
That's only my opinion, you can not agree with it.
 
Sorry, but i disagree, becouse that potion heal you much lover, than fast red MMO potions... play TW1 with Flash mod, you see. You can run, but... you probably die

Sorry, I don't play MMOs, so I might be missing something.
My idea is that 60 seconds swallow is plenty, and in my opinion it's better to have a potion with a shorter duration, but with a significant effect, that you'll have think twice before using, pace yourself if the fight turns out to be more difficult than expected, think when to use the potion and not just spam it.

This will put emphasis on the combat skills, you need to avoid taking damage, because of that I love that now Geralt has proper dodge moves, it gives you a lot of options during combat, the constant rolling in W2 was ridiculous.

It's open world game, if they put heavy monsters, they should chance to kill them, these mechanic (only 2 fast potion use) + weapon/armour level, it effectively prevents, and make these game MMO, with monsters to farm.
That's only my opinion, you can not agree with it.

I disagree with this, I don't see how it will make it MMO. It doesn't mean that they have to make it easy to kill these monsters. It should be possible, but only if you are skillful, I want to hand holding or braking balance, just because.

You can't expect a single digit level character to march in straight so some very hardcore late game monsters and expect to kill it easily with just some low level potions, crappy gear and no skill. Just run around it for 30 minutes and chip his health away.
If they did, to me that would amount to farming. You'll just go to that monster, cheese your way into killing it and get some rally good loot from it, problem solved, half the game will be easy now.

I guess we have different views on how things should be, it will be interesting to find out how it will turn out in the end. :)
 
I don't have much time to write a lot even though I have a lot to say -- but I think the reason they made the potion effect time (eg swallow) so short is so that the witcher isn't constantly drinking potions while trotting around the countryside. I found I did that a lot in tw1 and tbh it didn't really make much sense since witchers use potions specifically for combat and other short duration activities. It doesnt make sense to be constantly poisoning yourself*just in case* you get ambushed in an open world.

They did mention something about short term potions that can be taken during battle and ones that could only be taken while meditating-- it *could* have something to do with mutagens but I could be wrong-- but I don't fully remember and I'll have to find the source.

I think that the realism of drinking a potion is pretty essential part of the whole experience-- I'm not just taking buffs, I'm drugging myself right here right now. If there's no animation implemented, I will look for mods that do what I want in that department. I understand it ruins the flow for some players-- but for me that is not the case.

I'm going to get my research hat on next time I return to this thread because I'm sure I heard something about two kinds of potion...
 
I don't have much time to write a lot even though I have a lot to say -- but I think the reason they made the potion effect time (eg swallow) so short is so that the witcher isn't constantly drinking potions while trotting around the countryside. I found I did that a lot in tw1 and tbh it didn't really make much sense since witchers use potions specifically for combat and other short duration activities. It doesnt make sense to be constantly poisoning yourself*just in case* you get ambushed in an open world.

They did mention something about short term potions that can be taken during battle and ones that could only be taken while meditating-- it *could* have something to do with mutagens but I could be wrong-- but I don't fully remember and I'll have to find the source.

I think that the realism of drinking a potion is pretty essential part of the whole experience-- I'm not just taking buffs, I'm drugging myself right here right now. If there's no animation implemented, I will look for mods that do what I want in that department. I understand it ruins the flow for some players-- but for me that is not the case.

I'm going to get my research hat on next time I return to this thread because I'm sure I heard something about two kinds of potion...

Yes, there are mutagens and potions.
Mutagens, I believe there 4 slots for them, provide constant effects when they are equipped. There is still no information on what kind of mutagens will be available.
Potions, well, you know about them. :)
 
The entire potion system in TW3 looks borked from the get go. The "hold and release" mechanic is absurd and unrealistic within the lore. Witcher's don't magically store potions in little pouch-organs that slowly seep them out over time. Just let us drink a potion whenever we want, and stop with the "auto" nonsense. auto-anything is generally a bad move for the fanbase and an attempt to placate casuals, which is fine except that those of us who have invested years into this franchise are the ones who suffer.
 
The entire potion system in TW3 looks borked from the get go. The "hold and release" mechanic is absurd and unrealistic within the lore. Witcher's don't magically store potions in little pouch-organs that slowly seep them out over time. Just let us drink a potion whenever we want, and stop with the "auto" nonsense. auto-anything is generally a bad move for the fanbase and an attempt to placate casuals, which is fine except that those of us who have invested years into this franchise are the ones who suffer.

There is no hold and release at the moment. Everything shown so far points to that.
 
I'm surprised they're still referring to them as potions to be honest, they are only potions in name now, they are essentially hotkey-buffs, similar to the ones you would find in an mmo-rpg. And mutagenic potions are permanent buffs similar to the boring stat-increases you would get from gear.
 
The entire potion system in TW3 looks borked from the get go. The "hold and release" mechanic is absurd and unrealistic within the lore. Witcher's don't magically store potions in little pouch-organs that slowly seep them out over time. Just let us drink a potion whenever we want, and stop with the "auto" nonsense. auto-anything is generally a bad move for the fanbase and an attempt to placate casuals, which is fine except that those of us who have invested years into this franchise are the ones who suffer.

Honestly, if its going to be true to the lore then they need to remove everything about alchemy. In the books Geralt rarely uses potions. He doesn't collect ingredients or picks herbs, he doesn't discover new recipes, and he definitely doesnt brew them while traveling. Staying true to the lore would be Geralt starting the game with a handful of potions and then having them suddenly refilled at the start of a new act... With no explanation about how its done. Of course that would be terrible from a gameplay perspective so they have to embellish.
 
@ThatMetalDude

oh man... don t remind me of the "brew mutagenic potion" thing from TW1 .... i REALLY REALLY REALLY
missed this in TW2... just sucked to "mutate" certain skills instead of getting a complete NEW skill
because you used the mutagenic potion... or even not (consequences eh ;) )

and it seems now TW3 system is very similar to TW2 one .... :/ even if we have to get our
ingrediends to produce the potions .... mutagenic potions are deleted ... thats really MEEEEEEHHHHH
(as far as we ve seen the system in action)<<<<< i point here

Man... i really don t know why they changed TW1 system that hard ... nothing ... really NOTHING was wrong
with that one.... just felt right... at least for me
 
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I'm surprised they're still referring to them as potions to be honest, they are only potions in name now, they are essentially hotkey-buffs, similar to the ones you would find in an mmo-rpg. And mutagenic potions are permanent buffs similar to the boring stat-increases you would get from gear.

Are you referring to the lack of drinking animation? I don't get what you mean otherwise. ???
Potions were always buffs, some with tradeoffs, but still they boost some of your parameters. What else would they be?
 
Already mentioned, but yeah, it's a real fucking downer that they decided to apparently ditch the drinking animation as well as make the potions last so goddamn short.
For the animation, it just seems lazy and I think it's about as stupid as if they had decided to remove the sword drawing/sheathing animation and simply have the swords appear in your hand. And potion duration... it basically goes against all their talk of how you need to be prepared for fights as you can just drink them instantly during combat, which is also something you'll pretty much have to do since the duration of potions are so short.

Have to admit I'm pretty disappointed about this. I don't know what it is with CDPR and the potion system in this game, but pretty much each time we hear more news about it, it seems bad.
 
No. You drink the potion before hand, then use the potion on demand.

Your body does something similar with food energy, water and a good deal of other things (adrenaline, most other hormones, which it produces and releases when physiologically needed).

Not that I'm thrilled by the changes from The Witcher ~ (FCR), but it will be modded in The Wild Hunt by someone, and if the CDPR version doesn't work for me, I'll use a modded version as I did with the other two games. <Shrug>
 
No. You drink the potion before hand, then use the potion on demand.

Seems like people can't really agree on whether this is still true or not.
But yes, at any rate the system is far from perfect and I certainly hope they don't wait two years until they release the mod tools.
 
Are you referring to the lack of drinking animation? I don't get what you mean otherwise. ???
Potions were always buffs, some with tradeoffs, but still they boost some of your parameters. What else would they be?

They are no longer consumables since you have an unlimited supply, you no longer actually drink them, going through the brewing process ONCE is basically a formality that borders on an insult to players who liked the idea of brewing potions, should I go on?
 
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