The Witcher 3 Alchemy System

[Butcher_of_Cidaris]

Turning potion On/Off?? Did i read it correctly? Weireds healing/potion system i ever heard..

For sure fiasco i say it is)
Bring Witcher 1 potion system back.

 

[val.mitev]

No. You drink the potion before hand, then use the potion on demand.

I believe they dropped that. You drink the potions as usual, there's just no animation for that. Man, they really need to clear things up.

They are no longer consumables since you have an unlimited supply, you no longer actually drink them, going through the brewing process ONCE is basically a formality that borders on an insult to players who liked the idea of brewing potions, should I go on?

You don't have an unlimited supply (while in combat you might wish they were ) and the drinking animation could be added, there's still time.

For me experimenting with potion recipes and finding rare ingredients to create/upgrade potions is a lot more fun than just manually selecting some ingredients and pressing a button to brew it. We also have the base alcohol which should also affect the quality of the potions, thus finding good base will also be important.

As I already said, if the potions only last for a short amount of time, but have significant effects, having to gather all the ingredients for a sufficient number of potions would be a chore and not fun at all. This makes the auto refill on meditation somewhat reasonable, but still there are things to clear up in this regard as well.
CDPR want to make the potions an integral part of the gameplay and not an afterthought for most players, as it was in W2, so they need to strike a very good balance.

I loved brewing potions in the previous games, it was really fun, collection ingredients was not an issue, had tons of them, but there were flaws as well. The new system needs to prove itself, but I can see it working.
There are a lot of pieces to this puzzle and without seeing all of them and how they fit together, we can't be certain how good one particular piece is.

And no, I don't find it insulting, I prefer they focus on the fun and engaging part of the system (like experimenting with recipes) and not the manual tasks that you need to perform.

But yes, please go on, I'm not convinced by these arguments. I'll need a bit more to reconsider.
It's understandable that everyone has his/her own idea of how the game should be, but what's good for one might not be good for the many.

 

[thislsmadness]

I believe they dropped that. You drink the potions as usual, there's just no animation for that. Man, they really need to clear things up.

Are you saying that you dont "equip" two potions and then activate their effects? What makes you think that was dropped?

 

[mecha_fish]

@thisIsmadness does this mean that "drinking" a potion and "equipping" a potion are the same thing?

Maybe the whole activating potions is only in regards to mutgenic potions that a apparently somewhat permanent..? And normal potions just sit in your pockets awaiting consumption...?
Gotta go do my research brb.

 

[thislsmadness]

@thisIsmadness does this mean that "drinking" a potion and "equipping" a potion are the same thing?

Maybe the whole activating potions is only in regards to mutgenic potions that a apparently somewhat permanent..? And normal potions just sit in your pockets awaiting consumption...?
Gotta go do my research brb.

Yeah, when they were going with the metabolism excuse it made sense that equipping and drinking were essentially the same. So you would choose two potions to drink during meditation and then Geralt does his metabolism magic to activate the effect in combat. If theyve gotten rid of that then Im not sure when Geralt is drinking the potion. I havent read anything to suggest theyve changed their mind though.

 

[val.mitev]

Yeah, when they were going with the metabolism excuse it made sense that equipping and drinking were essentially the same. So you would choose two potions to drink during meditation and then Geralt does his metabolism magic to activate the effect in combat. If theyve gotten rid of that then Im not sure when Geralt is drinking the potion. I havent read anything to suggest theyve changed their mind though.

So basically if there's a drinking animation, it's drinking, if there's no drinking animation, it's "releasing", that sound about right.
I still prefer to think of it as drinking the potion, but just there's no animation for that. Lets see what the official statement about this will be.

Anyhow, it's not much of a difference, it's mostly about immersion and making if fit into the world so that it doesn't stand out as just a game mechanic.

 

[flyingsaucers]

Honestly, if its going to be true to the lore then they need to remove everything about alchemy. In the books Geralt rarely uses potions. He doesn't collect ingredients or picks herbs, he doesn't discover new recipes, and he definitely doesnt brew them while traveling. Staying true to the lore would be Geralt starting the game with a handful of potions and then having them suddenly refilled at the start of a new act... With no explanation about how its done. Of course that would be terrible from a gameplay perspective so they have to embellish.

That's not how lore works. I've read the books too, and just because Geralt isn't shown gathering herbs or brewing potions doesn't mean that he doesn't do those things. Sapkowski's Geralt doesn't just magically acquire potions from thin air, rather they're acquired off-screen because the author decided not to write about the brewing process. That means that it's fair game for fan-fic to fill in the blanks (and Witcher games are fan-fic -- the games aren't recognized by Sapkowski as canon).

What Sapkowski does describe, however, is the process of imbibing a potion and gaining its effects. And that process does not include Geralt's ability to perform a timed release of the potion within his circulatory system at will. It's fair game to fill in the blanks; it's not fair game to change established lore for no good reason.

 

[moonknightgog]

In the Stream Heiko said You unlock a potion once and after you do you only need the root ingedient(alkohol) to craft more.

From the Interwievs and Articles thread.

No. That is not good.

 

[Zabanzo]

No. That is not good.

We had this info for months, you only heard about it now?

 

[moonknightgog]

We had this info for months, you only heard about it now?

Nope. But I hoped in some "last minute changes".

 

[PT-Desu]

Not a fan of Alchemy, i like what they did or rather i don't really care either way.
Sucks for the people that liked the old methods though.

 

[Phalaxtor_II.]

From the Interwievs and Articles thread.

No. That is not good.

Yeah, thanks for reopening old sores.

 

[Percival_Dickenbutts]

Really sucks that CDPR hates alchemy so much, didn't even give us a drinking animation =(

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

Indeed, I don't know what else to say anymore. From the BEGINNING ON a lot of the people here were either cautiously skeptical or absolutely against the new potions system. We explained time and time again how great TW1 potion system was and that there would only have to be minor changes to this system to make the experience complete, how boring and disappointing potions were in TW2 in contrast to TW1 and that they should go back to it, that casualisation was not a solution and that automatizing a core system of the games was not good, that there could be compromises between easy-access to potions and having to gather ingredients like multiple uses, bigger potion vials (for more uses), "refilling" potions with only a part of the ingredients if you have still 1 or 2 uses of the potion left in your vial, etc, etc.

I can tell you exactly how this will end.
1 or 2 people might like the system or love it as it is.
80% of the newcomers will like it because they have no expectations whatsoever in terms of alchemy.
80% of those people who didn't use potions in the previous games will not use them in TW3 unless forced to.
80% of the people who didn't use potions in TW2 because the system was so boring and you actually didn't need potions will (probably) not use it here either.
Most of the people who loved the potions systems and used them despite the imperfection of the TW2 system will either be disappointed and "accept" the new system or stop using the system at all.

And what is left to say is only one sentence: "I told you do" / "We told you so". But that won't help me a lot in the end, I will have to wait for modders to fix this mess again.

________

Sorry for being so harsh, I defend CDP in every other category, may it be "graphical downgrade", combat mechanics and animations, Geralts in-game character model, etc. But this system I did not approve of from the moment it was described the first time and they did - despite saying they were "working on a solution" just buy themselves time to finally say "We did keep it that way and now it's final". So thanks CDPR, if this is how it's going to be I will be disappointed on release. I will play the game, so maybe you do not care about my disappointment in this aspect, but if you are the company you always said and until now showed you are, that cares about it's fans and followers, then you might. I know there is no changing it now, but let me say to you IMO that was one of the dumbest ideas for an alchemy system I ever heard. Sorry, I really mean no offense but that is how I see it. I respect your work and your previous games are awesome, but this system is bull*hit

 

[SkycladGuardian]

Indeed, I don't know what else to say anymore. From the BEGINNING ON a lot of the people here were either cautiously skeptical or absolutely against the new potions system. We explained time and time again how great TW1 potion system was and that there would only have to be minor changes to this system to make the experience complete, how boring and disappointing potions were in TW2 in contrast to TW1 and that they should go back to it, that casualisation was not a solution and that automatizing a core system of the games was not good, that there could be compromises between easy-access to potions and having to gather ingredients like multiple uses, bigger potion vials (for more uses), "refilling" potions with only a part of the ingredients if you have still 1 or 2 uses of the potion left in your vial, etc, etc.

I can tell you exactly how this will end.
1 or 2 people might like the system or love it as it is.
80% of the newcomers will like it because they have no expectations whatsoever in terms of alchemy.
80% of those people who didn't use potions in the previous games will not use them in TW3 unless forced to.
80% of the people who didn't use potions in TW2 because the system was so boring and you actually didn't need potions will (probably) not use it here either.
Most of the people who loved the potions systems and used them despite the imperfection of the TW2 system will either be disappointed and "accept" the new system or stop using the system at all.

And what is left to say is only one sentence: "I told you do" / "We told you so". But that won't help me a lot in the end, I will have to wait for modders to fix this mess again.

I still think we have not enough information to judge the new alchemy system. A dev diary that showcases alchemy would be much appreciated...

 

[frynse]

With all these other good news over the last few days, this is really the only thing left that I have a major problem with. And as such it's really a huge thorn in the side.
But unfortunately it seems like it's too late for changes to be made at this point. Hopefully it's better than anticipated.

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

I still think we have not enough information to judge the new alchemy system. A dev diary that showcases alchemy would be much appreciated...

What more information do you want?
I mean sure, there was a lot of confusion, and would you have posted that 2 months ago I would have agreed. But by now we have had Marcin dedicate and entire post shortly explaining to us how it works, multiple journalists explaining the system and the system was also explained in mutliple interviews and each and every time it said the SAME THING.

1. You will have to collect ingredients to make a potion (good)
2. It will be harder to collect ingredients (good)
3. There are "stronger" "upgraded" versions of your potions (cool, love it)

4. Mutagenic potions can be taken during meditation only, they last forever (until cancelled by the player during meditation) and are highly toxic. You can swap out mutagenic potions based on the situation ahead of you (fine by me I guess)
5. Potions have less effect-time (well, okay I guess, might fit better into an open world game)

6. "Upgraded" potions seem very powerful (yeah well, we'll see, doesn't sound that good but still okay I guess)
7. No drinking animations (not that good, removes some tactical elements)
8. Witcher sense highlights herbs, that apparently can be gathered everywhere, based on footage we saw. (WHY if there is auto-refill, WHY?)
9. Potions will auto-refill while meditating if you have the base ingredient (alcohol) in your inventory after you have made the potion the first time (VERY BAD, seriously we told them a hundred better versions of that)

And don't you come now with "but if potions only last a minute you have to gather ingredients ALL THE TIME. There are a lot of solutions we listed, like for example having the gather less herbs after the first time of making the potion, or 1 plant having more herbs to loot, or potion vials that are upgradable which can offer you 3, 5 or even 8 uses for 1 potion until you have to refill, or the ability to "thin out" the potion a few times by refilling the potion without ingredients if you have 1 or 2 uses left in the vial, or being able to make "weaker" versions of potions using less herbs in the process.

There are SO MANY THINGS we suggested and most of those I mentioned above I find VERY good and effective as a solution, and none was taken up or considered.

 

[moonknightgog]

Indeed, I don't know what else to say anymore. From the BEGINNING ON a lot of the people here were either cautiously skeptical or absolutely against the new potions system. We explained time and time again how great TW1 potion system was and that there would only have to be minor changes to this system to make the experience complete, how boring and disappointing potions were in TW2 in contrast to TW1 and that they should go back to it, that casualisation was not a solution and that automatizing a core system of the games was not good, that there could be compromises between easy-access to potions and having to gather ingredients like multiple uses, bigger potion vials (for more uses), "refilling" potions with only a part of the ingredients if you have still 1 or 2 uses of the potion left in your vial, etc, etc.

I can tell you exactly how this will end.
1 or 2 people might like the system or love it as it is.
80% of the newcomers will like it because they have no expectations whatsoever in terms of alchemy.
80% of those people who didn't use potions in the previous games will not use them in TW3 unless forced to.
80% of the people who didn't use potions in TW2 because the system was so boring and you actually didn't need potions will (probably) not use it here either.
Most of the people who loved the potions systems and used them despite the imperfection of the TW2 system will either be disappointed and "accept" the new system or stop using the system at all.

And what is left to say is only one sentence: "I told you do" / "We told you so". But that won't help me a lot in the end, I will have to wait for modders to fix this mess again.

________

Sorry for being so harsh, I defend CDP in every other category, may it be "graphical downgrade", combat mechanics and animations, Geralts in-game character model, etc. But this system I did not approve of from the moment it was described the first time and they did - despite saying they were "working on a solution" just buy themselves time to finally say "We did keep it that way and now it's final". So thanks CDPR, if this is how it's going to be I will be disappointed on release. I will play the game, so maybe you do not care about my disappointment in this aspect, but if you are the company you always said and until now showed you are, that cares about it's fans and followers, then you might. I know there is no changing it now, but let me say to you IMO that was one of the dumbest ideas for an alchemy system I ever heard. Sorry, I really mean no offense but that is how I see it. I respect your work and your previous games are awesome, but this system is bull*hit

Uhm. I wouldn't be so hard regarding TW2 alchemy system. TW1 system was more complex, but I really liked the drinking potions outside combat in TW2. It's more lore freindly.

 

[SkycladGuardian]

What more information do you want?
I mean sure, there was a lot of confusion, and would you have posted that 2 months ago I would have agreed. But by now we have had Marcin dedicate and entire post shortly explaining to us how it works, multiple journalists explaining the system and the system was also explained in mutliple interviews and each and every time it said the SAME THING.

1. You will have to collect ingredients to make a potion (good)
2. It will be harder to collect ingredients (good)
3. There are "stronger" "upgraded" versions of your potions (cool, love it)

4. Mutagenic potions can be taken during meditation only, they last forever (until cancelled by the player during meditation) and are highly toxic. You can swap out mutagenic potions based on the situation ahead of you (fine by me I guess)
5. Potions have less effect-time (well, okay I guess, might fit better into an open world game)

6. "Upgraded" potions seem very powerful (yeah well, we'll see, doesn't sound that good but still okay I guess)
7. No drinking animations (not that good, removes some tactical elements)
8. Witcher sense highlights herbs, that apparently can be gathered everywhere, based on footage we saw. (WHY if there is auto-refill, WHY?)
9. Potions will auto-refill while meditating if you have the base ingredient (alcohol) in your inventory after you have made the potion the first time (VERY BAD, seriously we told them a hundred better versions of that)

And don't you come now with "but if potions only last a minute you have to gather ingredients ALL THE TIME. There are a lot of solutions we listed, like for example having the gather less herbs after the first time of making the potion, or 1 plant having more herbs to loot, or potion vials that are upgradable which can offer you 3, 5 or even 8 uses for 1 potion until you have to refill, or the ability to "thin out" the potion a few times by refilling the potion without ingredients if you have 1 or 2 uses left in the vial, or being able to make "weaker" versions of potions using less herbs in the process.

There are SO MANY THINGS we suggested and most of those I mentioned above I find VERY good and effective as a solution, and none was taken up or considered.

Still, I want to see how it plays out in the actual game. Maybe the system works very well in combination with the other gameplay elements.

 

[web-head91]

What more information do you want?
I mean sure, there was a lot of confusion, and would you have posted that 2 months ago I would have agreed. But by now we have had Marcin dedicate and entire post shortly explaining to us how it works, multiple journalists explaining the system and the system was also explained in mutliple interviews and each and every time it said the SAME THING.

1. You will have to collect ingredients to make a potion (good)
2. It will be harder to collect ingredients (good)
3. There are "stronger" "upgraded" versions of your potions (cool, love it)

4. Mutagenic potions can be taken during meditation only, they last forever (until cancelled by the player during meditation) and are highly toxic. You can swap out mutagenic potions based on the situation ahead of you (fine by me I guess)
5. Potions have less effect-time (well, okay I guess, might fit better into an open world game)

6. "Upgraded" potions seem very powerful (yeah well, we'll see, doesn't sound that good but still okay I guess)
7. No drinking animations (not that good, removes some tactical elements)
8. Witcher sense highlights herbs, that apparently can be gathered everywhere, based on footage we saw. (WHY if there is auto-refill, WHY?)
9. Potions will auto-refill while meditating if you have the base ingredient (alcohol) in your inventory after you have made the potion the first time (VERY BAD, seriously we told them a hundred better versions of that)

And don't you come now with "but if potions only last a minute you have to gather ingredients ALL THE TIME. There are a lot of solutions we listed, like for example having the gather less herbs after the first time of making the potion, or 1 plant having more herbs to loot, or potion vials that are upgradable which can offer you 3, 5 or even 8 uses for 1 potion until you have to refill, or the ability to "thin out" the potion a few times by refilling the potion without ingredients if you have 1 or 2 uses left in the vial, or being able to make "weaker" versions of potions using less herbs in the process.

There are SO MANY THINGS we suggested and most of those I mentioned above I find VERY good and effective as a solution, and none was taken up or considered.

and people were worried about the graphic "downgrade".
me, i'm more worried about the experience itself when you make odd design decisions to one of your core gameplay elements. i've read the entire thread and your post pretty much sums it up.
if they're dumbing down one of the most important aspects of the witcher games and mythos, then that's really worrisome for the rest of gameplay mechanics.
now THAT would be a deal breaker for me.