The Witcher 3 Alchemy System

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The Witcher 3 Alchemy System

  • Yes

    Votes: 250 24.3%
  • No

    Votes: 270 26.2%
  • I need to see it in action to be sure

    Votes: 294 28.6%
  • I prefer the system of TW1

    Votes: 363 35.3%
  • I prefer the system of TW2

    Votes: 104 10.1%

  • Total voters
    1,029
We actually have not seen the alchemy screen yet, so we don't know how exactly the ingredients work, is it more like W2 or like W1. This could have significant effect on the system and add depth to it.

Not reallly..... I mean what are you imagining it will be? Even if the system is like the one in TW1 it still is fact that you only have to brew each potion type 1 time.
So..... I don't see what serious difference this would make.

From what we've seen so far, drinking a potion increases toxicity that slowly goes down as the potion expires, but I'm not sure if mutagens also add to the toxicity. You could turn out to have used several mutagens that could increase your base toxicity to a level that allows you to use only some potions, thus making you decide which is more important, a mutagen or a potion that could save your life..

According to several statements of the developers you can only take 1 mutagenic potion at a time and it will increase your toxicity A LOT and will last until you cancel the effect in the meditation screen.

Also creating the mutagens will also require resources, every time you change the mutagen I believe, but I might be wrong on this one. So there will go some of your resources, you might find yourself in a situation when you have found some rare ingredient, but both a mutagen and a potion need it, so which way do you go, especially when you don't know when or if you will find more from it.

Yeah, maybe about 2 or 3 times in the entire game. That is a rare situation considering you only need to brew a potion once and then you have it unlocked and also considering you can only take 1 mutagen at a time and that you will use your mutagens with care and also that mutagens need most probably some additional rare ingredients to do.

Look, I like the whole mutagenic potion thing, I really do. But if all that is really "tactical" about alchemy is only about which mutagens you use when and that you have to brew mutagens (which do not auto-refill) than that is just not enough for me, especially if mutagen effects hold until I cancel it in meditation.

Also you'll be able to experiment with the potions recipes, which to me is way more interesting way to engage the player. You can play around experimenting/wasting resources hoping for a better version of a known potion, I hope that there might be some secret recipes that you can't just buy the recipe from, but only achievable through experiments or just being lucky, you know, a pinch of this, a pinch of that, voila.

That might be true and if it is that way I appreciate it and would find it a great addition. Still, it doesn't make up from the other changes and the general complexity of alchemy we had previously.

Having a limited potion uses also adds to the tactical aspect in my opinion, during battle you have a limited resource set that you need to use in the best way possible. I don't see auto refill taking away from that, what it does is removing the manual task of brewing again the potions you use.

It doesn't take away from that specifically, but for example the "no drinking animation" does take away. Even if you ignore this what auto-refill takes away is a huge part of the resource management and clever decision making when you prepare potions. Sure, you still have to choose which potions to take into your potion-quick-usage pouch but the actual resource and asset management of which potions to make when and how many of them is falling flat. You just have ALL the potions you ever made in your inventory and always at your disposal as long as you have enough alcohol to refill them.

At first I was against the refill, because I didn't know how the potions would be, but after seeing them in action, significant effect with a short duration, I changed my mind a bit. If there is no refill, you'll need to constantly gather resources to have sufficient potions. This could turn of players from using potions, they won't bother to gather resources or just hesitate to use them, especially if it is one that needs something rare, which would be bad.
You find this very rare ingredient and make a potion, that you can use once, so when do you use it? DO you wait for a boss? But which boss? You start to wait for the best moment to use it and end up not using it all, not fun, right?

Okay first that's your problem, if you do that you are clearly an individual which has problems making decisions which is bad for playing a game like The Witcher anyway. But aside from that the decision to not take said potion often comes from the fact that you do not really NEED potions to succeed, which might or might not change with TW3 based on how they make monsters and based on how the player himself plays the game (does he face off against higher-level monsters or not? etc.).

That problem will not be solved by auto-refill. All auto-refill does is giving you an unlimited supply of this "powerful" potion which means you become Overpowered. Additionally, most of the time you KNOW when a boss comes. You don't know how hard he is sure, but in my experience at least in TW games if you take a powerful potion before a boss you will not feel like you have wasted the potion even if you might have gotten through without it, that goes double for facing enemies above your current level. You have to use the potions at one time, no need storing them up. The toxicity system already shows you you can only save up so many potions since you can only take a said number at a time anyway. That is a mere player-problem and auto-refill will NOT solve this.

Making more powerful potions being unlimited in supply tones down difficulty significantly and is just in itself a contradiction to any balancing, it's working AGAINST the balancing of any game.

If you hesitate to use a potion that is solely YOUR problem. Part of the game is to learn to properly evaluate situations and enemies in order to get yourself through the game. The game is teaching you to analyze and familiarize yourself with the world you are playing in. Auto-Refill just destroys that by making you OP and giving you TOO MANY options to deal with a situation.

Another unknown are the potions themselves. What they are, what they do, what they need, how useful they are or are they just there for the count.
I hope the potions to provide variety and choice, so that you are not stuck with only 2-3 potions for the whole game.

Me too, because that is were TW2 was a little bit bad. TW1 properly supported a (small) variety of playsyles with different potion types while TW2 had only 3 or 4 really usable potions that you would take regularly.

There are 4 possibilities:

1. The variety is good and potions are reasonably weak so that good combinations have to be used to lead to significant combat improvements
2. The variety is low and potions are strong which means that auto-refill will overpower you beyond measure
3. The variety is good and potions are strong which means you will be overpowered on a lot of different levels based on which potions you choose
4. Variety is low and potions are weak which would mean that the potion system will probably not be used much

As for me, I'm hoping for Nr. 1, because anything else would break the game. But even with that you have to be careful, because as far as we know so far all potions refill automatically which means once you "unlocked" upgraded potions they serve like a buff rather than consumables and you can use them anytime which means you will get too OP at one point. Add to that the fact that the skill tree will probably also boost your power, even if a majority of the skills might be not stats-related and you might end up having a game that might be too hard for a casual gamer on high difficulty levels, but way too easy for someone like me.

I think you are being way too pessimistic. What you say is true for the most part, but while some things may sound good in theory, but balancing the game and the fun factor can be very hard and in practice could turn out to be boring/tedious.
You have your mind set and it seems the only thing that could change that is just playing the game and experiencing the new system for yourself.

I don't even think that could change my opinion if the game does not surprise me BIG time with some hidden fact or feature that completely changes the nature of the system we know of.

I wouldn't even say I am pessimistic. 3 months ago or so I still saw hope, thought maybe I understood it wrong, or don't know a special detail that changes things or maybe they still add to the system. But the game is as good as finished now, no gameplay changes are made anymore and they explained the system thoroughly multiple times (at least enough to make yourself a picture of it and count in all (positive and negative) possibilities of the effects it could have in the final game on immersion and other gameplay elements and systems).

What I see here is a simplified system for the sake of bringing fun to newcomers and casual gamers, to reduce the annoyance of some people to have to gather herbs all the time (although that was never anything that you had to SET OUT to do since you did it along the way anyway), to stop people from hoarding potions or herbs (which they do anyway) for the price of potentially making the player overpowered and eliminating all tactical resource management and asset decision elements which have previously been part of the games alchemy/potion system.

It might be entertaining to a degree, what I am saying is I am disappointed since some of the core ideas (mutagenic potions, upgradable versions for potions, multiple uses of one potion vial, etc) seem very good but they managed to dump down a game system that I really liked in the complexity it was in TW1 for example, although there could have been a lot alternative middle-ground solutions that might have achieved (almost) the same thing while keeping the complexity and entertainment factor of the alchemy system that some of us like so much (and without having to use auto-refill)

EDIT: Not to mention that Bombs are also auto-refilled which is ridiculous...... It's like making crafting automatic.
 
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According to several statements of the developers you can only take 1 mutagenic potion at a time and it will increase your toxicity A LOT and will last until you cancel the effect in the meditation screen.

I thought there were 4 slots for the mutagens, 1 seems too low. Can't check it right now, but I will.
Also we don't know how many mutagens there will be, will they be upgradeable, so you can't know how often you'll need to change them. It might be more often than you think.

Okay first that's your problem, if you do that you are clearly an individual which has problems making decisions which is bad for playing a game like The Witcher anyway. But aside from that the decision to not take said potion often comes from the fact that you do not really NEED potions to succeed, which might or might not change with TW3 based on how they make monsters and based on how the player himself plays the game (does he face off against higher-level monsters or not? etc.).

I was talking in general, the Witcher is no longer a niche game, it's something that will be experience by a lot of different people, so CDPR need to cater to both old fans and newcomers.
I try to put myself in the shoes of the devs and see their point of view. I have my own preferences, but in the grand scheme of things, they need to make as many people happy as possible, even if that means making some people unhappy, but after all, it's not possible to please everyone.

Making more powerful potions being unlimited in supply tones down difficulty significantly and is just in itself a contradiction to any balancing, it's working AGAINST the balancing of any game.

If you hesitate to use a potion that is solely YOUR problem. Part of the game is to learn to properly evaluate situations and enemies in order to get yourself through the game. The game is teaching you to analyze and familiarize yourself with the world you are playing in. Auto-Refill just destroys that by making you OP and giving you TOO MANY options to deal with a situation.

Define powerful potion. A potion with only positive effects will be a potion with weak effect or it will be OP, making it a potion that will not be replaceable. The stronger the buff from the potion, the stronger the negative should be as well, just like before. You don't get the good stuff without any drawbacks.

I also wonder, why do you keep implying that I have some problem deciding what potion to use or when to use it?
As I said, you need to put things in perspective, you are not the only one who will play the game. They are designing a game for all kinds of people, so they need to balance the game systems properly.

What I see here is a simplified system for the sake of bringing fun to newcomers and casual gamers, to reduce the annoyance of some people to have to gather herbs all the time (although that was never anything that you had to SET OUT to do since you did it along the way anyway), to stop people from hoarding potions or herbs (which they do anyway) for the price of potentially making the player overpowered and eliminating all tactical resource management and asset decision elements which have previously been part of the games alchemy/potion system.

And as I said before, it's very important how it ties with the rest of the game systems. On it's own it might not make that much sense or seem dumbed down, but when combined with the rest, it could be great. I will withhold judgment for when we get the full picture.

It might be entertaining to a degree, what I am saying is I am disappointed since some of the core ideas (mutagenic potions, upgradable versions for potions, multiple uses of one potion vial, etc) seem very good but they managed to dump down a game system that I really liked in the complexity it was in TW1 for example, although there could have been a lot alternative middle-ground solutions that might have achieved (almost) the same thing while keeping the complexity and entertainment factor of the alchemy system that some of us like so much (and without having to use auto-refill)

Once you reach critical mass, some mechanics are no longer viable or just need to be adjusted to be more approachable (dumbed down is not a word I'd use just yet in this case). They might be fun for geeks, but might turn off a lot of other people. We just have to accept that the Witcher is now a well known franchise with all that comes from that. I want CDPR to be successful so that they can bring us more amazing games, and for that they need to appeal to a much broader audience, so I hope they manage to strike a fine balance in the game.
Easy mode for those who want to experience the story and also crank up the difficulty for those wanting to make use of all the game has to offer.

I'll just patiently wait for the dev diaries and hope that they finally explain how the alchemy system works, so that we can them properly analyze it without any assumptions.
 
We just have to accept that the Witcher is now a well known franchise with all that comes from that.

And that is what the problem is.
What made TW so unique is that it did not care about a wider audience or simplifying things too much, it was not holding your hand or compromising depth for easy accessibility. CDPR are so much liked not only because of the way they handle DLC and care about the fanbase but also because they are hardcore gamers at heart and don't want a watered down gaming experience.

I have the feeling the fact that the franchise is seen as AAA now causes a rift in that mentality since there are expectation of accessibility that are not healthy for The Witcher 3 game in terms of how I personally will enjoy it.

If they want to go down that path, fine, but how far they go will determine if I will so readily buy their next product or just wait until I am sure and until the price dropped. It depends on what they bring to the table.

They are master storyteller, no doubt and still more hardcore than a lot of games these days, but the continuation of watering down games just for the sake of making system easy and accessible and flat enough for "casual gamers" to not loose interest (since those guys have an attention span of about 20 seconds before starting to be bored) in the industry in general is horrible and CDPR starts with this too I'm really starting to treat them as critical as any other developer I know (up until now they had a strong loyalty bonus in my book). So lets wait and see how it turns out to be. I'm not making my decision upon my opinion about CDPR before I played the game, I'm just saying that "appealing to a wider audience" is exactly what ruined game franchises before. They should stick to making it the best Witcher game for the FANS, and not for some newcomers whos first Witcher game is TW3, because in contrast to the fans those newcomers will not cancel their preorder or not buy the game because of 1 system in the game (that is NOT IMPLYING I WILL CANCEL MY PREORDER, I will NOT unless something horrible happens that would justify it, which is very unlikely to happen).
 
Honestly, at a mechanics level, I've never considered the Witcher to be some type of "hardcore" RPG. Its always been much more high action, straight forward and "approachable" compared with a lot of the other major franchises, especially TW2. Its depth is in its storytelling and world design. I've never felt like I needed to consult an FAQ or forum to understand any of its gameplay systems. In fact, thats one of the things I appreciate about the series.
 
Honestly, at a mechanics level, I've never considered the Witcher to be some type of "hardcore" RPG. Its always been much more high action, straight forward and "approachable" compared with a lot of the other major franchises, especially TW2. Its depth is in its storytelling and world design. I've never felt like I needed to consult an FAQ or forum to understand any of its gameplay systems. In fact, thats one of the things I appreciate about the series.

Okay maybe not deep down bare hardcore.
But they were NEVER too mainstream and casual, they always managed to strike a balance.
And tbh in terms of gameplay systems a lot of people actually prefer TW1 to TW2 in various aspects, especially the Alchemy
 
Okay maybe not deep down bare hardcore.
But they were NEVER too mainstream and casual, they always managed to strike a balance.
And tbh in terms of gameplay systems a lot of people actually prefer TW1 to TW2 in various aspects, especially the Alchemy

I know they do, thats why I said "especially TW2", since I totally agree. In fact, when I look at the TW3 it seems to me that they are pretty much just adding more depth and layers to what that game had to offer. Yeah potions automatically refill, but thats not the only way that Alchemy has changed. Theyve added a lot more to it and, atleast on paper, it def seems like it encourages strategy and preparedness because which, when, and how you use potions is very important. Whether it ends up being frivilous or imbalanced are not judgements we can really make without playing the game.

The same is true of just about every other gameplay system. As far as I can see, there is nothing that has been streamlined without some other alterations and improvements to go along with that.
 
I know they do, thats why I said "especially TW2", since I totally agree. In fact, when I look at the TW3 it seems to me that they are pretty much just adding more depth and layers to what that game had to offer. Yeah potions automatically refill, but thats not the only way that Alchemy has changed. Theyve added a lot more to it and, atleast on paper, it def seems like it encourages strategy and preparedness because which, when, and how you use potions is very important. Whether it ends up being frivilous or imbalanced are not judgements we can really make without playing the game.

The same is true of just about every other gameplay system. As far as I can see, there is nothing that has been streamlined without some other alterations and improvements to go along with that.

just because they added new ideas to the alchemy system shouldn't mean that it's ok to have them simplify other aspects of it.

CDPR takes pride in making "non stupid games" as they say with deph whether from a gameplay perspective or a storytelling perspective, they even went as far as to say that skyrim is "for casuals", and they pull something like "auto-refill" and you can't even disactivate it :facepalm:.
even skyrim didn't do that for godsake !
i'm honestly starting to worry about the rest of the gameplay and RPG elements of the game.
 
just because they added new ideas to the alchemy system shouldn't mean that it's ok to have them simplify other aspects of it.

CDPR takes pride in making "non stupid games" as they say with deph whether from a gameplay perspective or a storytelling perspective, they even went as far as to say that skyrim is "for casuals", and they pull something like "auto-refill" and you can't even disactivate it :facepalm:.
even skyrim didn't do that for godsake !
i'm honestly starting to worry about the rest of the gameplay and RPG elements of the game.

I think that you can't see the wood for the trees.

You keep repeating that auto refill is bad, but you don't explain how it is bad exactly. You say this dumbs down the game, but you don't provide reasoning behind it.
We can have auto refill and have a deep and satisfying alchemy system. One does not exclude the other.

I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but you don't know the whole picture, you don't know how all the game systems work together. It could be much better this way and you can't prove that it's not.

It's been discussed at length many times now, let's wait and see what the dev diaries will show.
Just posting :facepalm:s adds nothing constructive to the discussion.
 
just because they added new ideas to the alchemy system shouldn't mean that it's ok to have them simplify other aspects of it.

CDPR takes pride in making "non stupid games" as they say with deph whether from a gameplay perspective or a storytelling perspective, they even went as far as to say that skyrim is "for casuals", and they pull something like "auto-refill" and you can't even disactivate it :facepalm:.
even skyrim didn't do that for godsake !
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Agreed.

I mean sure, maybe it will be "okay". But every fact I heard so far speaks against it.
If it would be an actual gameplay element such as combat or signs I would agree that I'd have to play it before I can properly judge.

But in this case we have a system, basically something like a crafting system (for potions) which is detailed, has all the facts laid out before us. It is a lot more rationality-based than it is "feeling"-based in contrast to elements like combat.

We can have auto refill and have a deep and satisfying alchemy system. One does not exclude the other.

Yes it does, and I explained thoroughly why it does in my previous posts.
IF it would be some king of hybrid-auto-refill where SPECIFIC potions (like low level for example) had auto-refill and the rest needed ingredients all the time, then okay, I wouldn't mind, that might have been a good compromise. But we have a system with full auto-refill so ..... no..... I just doesn't work in my head, it doesn't work in theory.

An while some might say "some things that look bad in theory are good in praxis" I think not in this case, because I think that a rational and mostly management-based system like alchemy cane be analyzed way better from hearing the facts about it but not playing than say combat for example. And that a system that is so based on management of resources and tactical preparation has to make sense, which it does not at the moment, not in terms of balance, immersion and tactical variety at least. It reduces all of that.

I imagined every case I could have imagined for the potion system and as of the facts we know today there is no way I will like the alchemy unless there is one element or fact that they did not tell us and changes the system fundamentally.

@CDPR => Your first or second dev diary better be the alchemy/potion system, because if not I'm more and more starting to get the feeling that you are not confident in the system yourself and purposefully not showing it to us.
 
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Honestly, at a mechanics level, I've never considered the Witcher to be some type of "hardcore" RPG. Its always been much more high action, straight forward and "approachable" compared with a lot of the other major franchises, especially TW2. Its depth is in its storytelling and world design. I've never felt like I needed to consult an FAQ or forum to understand any of its gameplay systems. In fact, thats one of the things I appreciate about the series.

An RPG with an Action combat system doesn't mean that it is accessible. It's the presence of quest markers, a simplistic quest design and side mechanics the real problem.

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I think that you can't see the wood for the trees.

You keep repeating that auto refill is bad, but you don't explain how it is bad exactly. You say this dumbs down the game, but you don't provide reasoning behind it.
We can have auto refill and have a deep and satisfying alchemy system. One does not exclude the other.

I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but you don't know the whole picture, you don't know how all the game systems work together. It could be much better this way and you can't prove that it's not.

It's been discussed at length many times now, let's wait and see what the dev diaries will show.
Just posting :facepalm:s adds nothing constructive to the discussion.

It's bad because is automatic. Because the system do something that I might want to do myself.
It's bad because you don't have to think on how to combine ingredients to make a better potion (like TW1 with Albedo, Rubedo and Nigredo). It's all automatic.
 
Not much more I could add to the subject or CDPR's decision other than just more disappointment on top of the disappointment.
137 pages including plenty of suggestions for an alchemy system 3.0 that's appealing to newcomers, casuals, veterans, hardcore role players and other types of gamers alike - all for naught. Cheers!

Although I wonder if a post-release DLC sort of solution could be the chance at redemption for CDPR (in case they still care).

Most importantly there is or there still seems to be no limitation regarding acquiring ingredients in The Witcher 3 as well. Objects ingredients can be gathered from seem to be all over the place and alcohol as the returning base ingredient most likely is widely available at vendors or by looting all the things. So that's covered.

What's missing would be the UI for creating or replenishing potions whenever YOU want to and YOU have the required ingredients at hand and, if CDPR in their endless wisdom got rid of those as well, the reintroduction of alchemical components for being able to truly experiment.
Although the latter probably would be something more of a 'nice to have' since every possible composition or combination of the alchemical components should also cause an additional (positive as well as negative) side effect on the resulting potion. Coding an algorithm that's sufficiently able to calculate the outcome of [some absurdly high number] combinations probably would be a bit too much to ask for, although, with enough time not entirely impossible to achieve. There's plenty of hack'n'slash aRPGs whose entire loot and crafting systems are essentially revolving around algorithms combining, adding and multiplying stats, attributes, modifiers, affixes, etc.

And the best thing about such a DLC sort of approach is that it actually would be entirely OPTIONAL. Those who then - for whatever reason - have warmed up to the current butchered implementation and those who never gave a flying rat's arse about alchemy to begin with can blissfully ignore and carry on spending their precious time on breezing through the game while others could improve their immersive experience by quite a margin.

Until then I totally will continue gathering the required amounts of ingredients for replenishing used up potions to at least and to an extent simulate the 'old way' of doing things with a healthy degree of effort and a sense of accomplishment, no matter the time this would take or if this would require trekking across different regions.
 
An RPG with an Action combat system doesn't mean that it is accessible. It's the presence of quest markers, a simplistic quest design and side mechanics the real problem.

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It's bad because is automatic. Because the system do something that I might want to do myself.
It's bad because you don't have to think on how to combine ingredients to make a better potion (like TW1 with Albedo, Rubedo and Nigredo). It's all automatic.

agreed, i couldn't say it better myself.
it's like with racing: a car equiped with a manual transmission, instead of an automatic one, tends to be more effective and to be much engaging and enjoyable over all ;)
 
It's bad because is automatic. Because the system do something that I might want to do myself.
It's bad because you don't have to think on how to combine ingredients to make a better potion (like TW1 with Albedo, Rubedo and Nigredo). It's all automatic.

Not quite, I believe they said that potion experimentation is in, so I don't see how auto refill is to blame here. Unless they've changed that, but there's not way to know until they clarify it.

Still, auto refill does not take away from combining ingredients, it's just so that you don't have to brew the same potions again and again manually.
In any case, this doesn't provide any sound argument, just that it's bad because it's automatic.

I see that you guys are against this small detail, so lets just wait for more info. We haven't seen potion creation yet.
If it turns out to be bad, I'll admit that I was wrong, but it could turn out to be great and I see many ways in which this system could work.

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it's like with racing: a car equiped with a manual transmission, instead of an automatic one, tends to be more effective and to be much engaging and enjoyable over all

This is a bad analogy. Auto refill is nothing like manual to automatic transmissions.
If you want to go with it tough, try applying it to combat, to have a similar effect on gameplay.
 
Not quite, I believe they said that potion experimentation is in, so I don't see how auto refill is to blame here. Unless they've changed that, but there's not way to know until they clarify it.

I remember that, it's just...I dont' see how you can "experiment" if you have to consume ingredients just one time.
It seems to me that potions are treated like active abilities, and meditations and alchool are the cooldown, or the "mana" bar.

Still, auto refill does not take away from combining ingredients, it's just so that you don't have to brew the same potions again and again manually.
In any case, this doesn't provide any sound argument, just that it's bad because it's automatic.

But there wasn't that kind of problem in TW2. Because you could choose how many potions brew in just one click, providing you had enough herbs.
With this system you need herbs one time, once you brew your potions, herbs became useless.
Another lack with this system is that there isn't the inventory management factor. When you have to use herbs every time, you need to think to manage your inventory and your supplies.

I see that you guys are against this small detail, so lets just wait for more info. We haven't seen potion creation yet.
If it turns out to be bad, I'll admit that I was wrong, but it could turn out to be great and I see many ways in which this system could work.

You mean "give them the benefit of the doubt"?
Of course, but...with all we knows now, I don't see how this system can works or how it can be complex.
 
I think people are getting confused, auto refill is in so that you dont have to waste your time doing absolutely boring things like clicking the ground for herbs all the time, and you can still use acquired potions without that.

It has nothing to do with removing experimentation, or removing the need to click and drag herb icons and click the make potion button, those could be in or out, but in any case they are secondary effects.



the point is that you dont have to do boring things regularly to keep an ample supply of potions usable and at hand for fights, and so in turn you spend only time to gather herbs for improving potions and making new ones, or making new bombs and traps, and you can use the ones brewed already for most fights.

Im not saying its good, just clarifying what the hell is actually going on, because it seems some people look like they want to create the illusion that refill was created specifically for the things they hate.

With this system you need herbs one time, once you brew your potions, herbs became useless.
Another lack with this system is that there isn't the inventory management factor. When you have to use herbs every time, you need to think to manage your inventory and your supplies.

1) herbs dont become useless, otherwise they wouldnt be there, you use them not to maintain your potions, but to make new ones, and improve other ones, and the same with bombs/traps, mutagens, whatever.

2) arent you exaggerating? I mean come on, inventory management for herbs? neither witcher game had this at all, you had so much room for everything that "think to manage your inventory and your supplies" was non-existent, holding previous games as perfect ideals or concepts when in practice they werent even close to that isnt very helpful for a comparison.
 
So let me get this straight. You can drink, lets say, a swallow potion and then you get 2 or as many charges as you've upgraded through alchemy and then you can use said charges anytime during your adventures ?

If that is the case, i don't know if i like it or not. It sounds interesting but i'll have to play it to judge it. Certainly different than the first 2 games but i am ok with trying out new ideas.

We'll probably need extra herbs and mats to upgrade potions and stuff.
 
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I think people are getting confused, auto refill is in so that you dont have to waste your time doing absolutely boring things like clicking the ground for herbs all the time, and you can still use acquired potions without that.

If you think that looting herbs in TW2 was boring, it is your problem. Looting was very generous in TW2, and you found herbs everywhere.
And "boring" can't be used in a critical analysis, because is subjective. What is boring for you it isn't for another player.

It has nothing to do with removing experimentation, or removing the need to click and drag herb icons and click the make potion button, those could be in or out, but in any case they are secondary effects.

Experiment? You need to brew a potion one time. In what do you have experiment, if there aren't sub-ingredients and all potions and its improvements are hand-holding?

the point is that you dont have to do boring things regularly to keep an ample supply of potions usable and at hand for fights, and so in turn you spend only time to gather herbs for improving potions and making new ones, or making new bombs and traps, and you can use the ones brewed already for most fights.

The point is that you don't have to do absolutely nothing, except one time, because all potion are automatically refilled.

Im not saying its good, just clarifying what the hell is actually going on, because it seems some people look like they want to create the illusion that refill was created specifically for the things they hate.

What's the point in auto-refill, then? To solve a problem that actually doesn't exist?


1) herbs dont become useless, otherwise they wouldnt be there, you use them not to maintain your potions, but to make new ones, and improve other ones, and the same with bombs/traps, mutagens, whatever.

Again, potions and improvements are limited. And once you have unlocked the enhanced potion, you can't even return to use the previous one.
The same thing can be achieved using Albedo, Rubedo and Nigredo, sub ingredients which make a better version of the same potion adding some buff.

2) arent you exaggerating? I mean come on, inventory management for herbs? neither witcher game had this at all, you had so much room for everything that "think to manage your inventory and your supplies" was non-existent, holding previous games as perfect ideals or concepts when in practice they werent even close to that isnt very helpful for a comparison.

Just the fact that you have a limited inventory means that you have to manage it.
It wasn't complex in the previous ones because the game structure was linear HUB patterns. And the fact that wasn't complex doesn't mean that it have to be cut off.
 
I'm a bit in the middle with this. I understand both points of view but as i said i will have to see it to understand exactly it works.

If herbs are needed just once to create a potion, which seems to be the case, then i might not be totally ok with it. Of course you still need to find alcohol to refill them but that's not the same i suppose.

As Geralt_of_bsas said, maybe they are trying to remove the repetition of doing it all the time. Personally it never felt boring to me but i know lots of people that do consider picking mats all the time to be extremelly boring , so i kinda understand the decision although not 100% on board :D
 
I'm a bit in the middle with this. I understand both points of view but as i said i will have to see it to understand exactly it works.

If herbs are needed just once to create a potion, which seems to be the case, then i might not be totally ok with it. Of course you still need to find alcohol to refill them but that's not the same i suppose.

As Geralt_of_bsas said, maybe they are trying to remove the repetition of doing it all the time. Personally it never felt boring to me but i know lots of people that do consider picking mats all the time to be extremelly boring , so i kinda understand the decision although not 100% on board :D

A lot of peaple consider boring even follow a well made quest reading the journal.
So evil devs created quest markers, and then they put them in Inquisition and Skyrim.
A dev simply can't please everyone.
 
just because they added new ideas to the alchemy system shouldn't mean that it's ok to have them simplify other aspects of it.

CDPR takes pride in making "non stupid games" as they say with deph whether from a gameplay perspective or a storytelling perspective, they even went as far as to say that skyrim is "for casuals", and they pull something like "auto-refill" and you can't even disactivate it :facepalm:.
even skyrim didn't do that for godsake !
i'm honestly starting to worry about the rest of the gameplay and RPG elements of the game.

Honestly, lets stop trying to pretend like the upkeep of potions in TW2 required any amount of "skill" or intelligence. Ingredients were so plentiful that you essentially had enough to create anything you wanted at any time. Ill accept that you find it more immersive, but that is not depth.

An RPG with an Action combat system doesn't mean that it is accessible. It's the presence of quest markers, a simplistic quest design and side mechanics the real problem.

Actually, i would say that RPGs with action combat are far more accessible than traditional RPGs. Quest markers can be turned off, so who cares that they are there? I also have no idea what "simplistic quest design and side mechanics" you speak of.
 
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