The Witcher 3 Alchemy System

[EliHarel]

I never got the "we offered so many suggestions, yet they ignored us" thing.

Well... yeah. So what?

We make suggestions. Not demands. The nature of suggestions is that they can be rejected. Finding it a shame or a disappointment that they don't adopt our suggestions strikes me as very entitled. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't. And I personally believe that more often than not they don't - whether because they already thought about what was written and implemented it, or they just disagree. Which they are very much allowed to do. They are not at the beck and call of forum members. And that's even without getting into the question of how many people actually hate this.

Also, there seems to be at least some aspect of herb gathering still present. Both for upgraded potions (even if only for the first-time upgrade), as well as decoctions (which are also long-lasting, as some enjoy, as well as being more challenging to create). Considering potions have several levels of upgrades, I think those who like the herb gathering can still find some measure of fun (and I'm well aware that I'm likely to be responded with how the decoctions are different, for instance).

I remain cautiously curious about this system.

 

[Lieste]

I never got the "we offered so many suggestions, yet they ignored us" thing.

Well... yeah. So what?

We make suggestions. Not demands. The nature of suggestions is that they can be rejected. Finding it a shame or a disappointment that they don't adopt our suggestions strikes me as very entitled. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't. And I personally believe that more often than not they don't - whether because they already thought about what was written and implemented it, or they just disagree. Which they are very much allowed to do. They are not at the beck and call of forum members. And that's even without getting into the question of how many people actually hate this.

Also, there seems to be at least some aspect of herb gathering still present. Both for upgraded potions (even if only for the first-time upgrade), as well as decoctions (which are also long-lasting, as some enjoy, as well as being more challenging to create). Considering potions have several levels of upgrades, I think those who like the herb gathering can still find some measure of fun (and I'm well aware that I'm likely to be responded with how the decoctions are different, for instance).

I remain cautiously curious about this system.

As well as for the alcohol if you run short and don't want to purchase more. Optional, but it can be done, and even with automatic refilling of potions could keep the "I must brew potions" crowd happy throughout the game... perhaps even a valuable item that can be sold? (Not wines etc, but raw alcohols) ~ as we did with White Gull from baser ingredients in the earlier titles.

 

[GHOSTMD]

I remain cautiously curious about this system.

Right Eli... i will just see how it works, but what i can definatly can say right now (before i ve seen it)

CAT should NOT have been that fucking X RAY effect!!! Makes cat just MEH!
If that particular potion (i like in TW1) is going to be VERY similar to TW2 CAT...
i will just NOT use it. Isn' t that exactly what REDs wanted to prevent us? By changing
the alchemy system, thought so.

Well... lets hope they didn t fucked it up to bad :/. I also still can' t wait till i can SEE
all this by myself at the 19. 05.

 

[wichat]

I've not read the all pages so forgive me if it is said before.

All I don't want is drink my potions, make a step to the fight and SUDDENLY a cut scene which eats my potion time!!!

 

[Jnkeetv]

Just great.

So from what Mr. Monnier said in that AMA, they bascially did what, in most cases you should NEVER do as a developer:
Asking (professional) journalists for their opinion on this or that and if they like it or not.

This CAN lead to necessary improvements or changes, especially if the journalists are of the entirely objective sort (a rare thing these days) but also has the potential to result in a big pile of steaming BS. Which, unfortunately seems to be the case now.
When will devs ever learn that, contrary to popular belief, journalists in fact ARE NOT representative of the whole gaming community and all kinds of different approaches to playing a game.

If journos actually hadn't that much of an input after all, then unfortunately, the shame is on you, CD Projekt.
Imho, of course.

What exactly was wrong with this iteration of the system you teased during Gamescom 2014:

About the potion system - in a recent interview Konrad told us that the potions would auto-refill. Is this still the case?

Automatically filling? No, no. Those are definitely consumable items, and you brew them you drink them and they are very very important in terms of preparation before the fight.

(A bit more of a clarification here since I talked to another dev off camera. The potions/bomb system works like this: You get the recipe and it will cost a big amount of materials to craft, and you’ll get something like 3 charges of the swallow potion for example. When you run out, you will need materials to craft the potions again, but they will require only a fraction of the materials needed compared to when you first craft the bomb/potion.)

How is ingredient gathering for potions? Is it similar to how it was handled in previous games?

It’s very similar.

Too good?
Too much of a really good compromise?

I usually avoid quoting stupid memes, but "this is madness" indeed.


If any modders experienced or otherwise familiar with RED Kit are reading this - you'd do the game and I reckon the majority if not all the adversaries of the current alchemy system a great favor whipping up a mod with most of the following core principles in place, among others obviously (feel free to chime in):

• every potion has a fixed set of uses (5 (?), maybe more or having less the more potent the potion is or gets over the course of the game)
• once all uses are gone and the potion is empty you have to re-brew it, but using only a portion (10% (?) or leaving out some of the ingredients entirely) of the initially required ingredient quantities
• creating and re-brewing potions limited to meditation (maybe outside of meditation as well (?))
• preparation just like in TW2, complete with drinking animations (that's asking MUCH, obviously), although a short drinking animation during combat would suffice as well
• reintroduction of secondary substances (albedo, nigredo, rubedo, etc) having the potential to alter potions in positive, as well as negative ways (asking WAY too much (?))

 

[thislsmadness]

Just great.

So from what Mr. Monnier said in that AMA, they bascially did what, in most cases you should NEVER do as a developer:
Asking (professional) journalists for their opinion on this or that and if they like it or not.

This CAN lead to necessary improvements or changes, especially if the journalists are of the entirely objective sort (a rare thing these days) but also has the potential to result in a big pile of steaming BS. Which, unfortunately seems to be the case now.
When will devs ever learn that, contrary to popular belief, journalists in fact ARE NOT representative of the whole gaming community and all kinds of different approaches to playing a game.

If journos actually hadn't that much of an input after all, then unfortunately, the shame is on you, CD Projekt.
Imho, of course.

What are you talking about? No one is listening to journalists when it comes to feature design. What they are looking for is whether or not the feedback is aligned with their design intent. That feedback does not drive decisions, it informs them.

What exactly was wrong with this iteration of the system you teased during Gamescom 2014:


Too good?
Too much of a really good compromise?

Thats called confusion and a community jumping to conclusions without specifics. That description is exactly how the current potion system works. You find a recipe, you craft a potion, you get X amount of charges, and to replenish those charges all you need is the alcohol. The act of gathering the herbs is still the same as always.

 

[Lieste]

What are you talking about? No one is listening to journalists when it comes to feature design. What they are looking for is whether or not the feedback is aligned with their design intent. That feedback does not drive decisions, it informs them.




Thats called confusion and a community jumping to conclusions without specifics. That description is exactly how the current potion system works. You find a recipe, you craft a potion, you get X amount of charges, and to replenish those charges all you need is the alcohol. The act of gathering the herbs is still the same as always.

And if you want to keep the busy work... Avoid picking up alcohol, never buy any, and use alchemy to prepare your required bases for autofill from the ingredients you collect.... possible, probably very useful when under pressure and out of alcohol... but I think I'll rely mainly on pre-prepared bottles.

 

[Phalzyr]

control time, transform into a sheep or bear of wolf

Yes I was being sarcastic

 

[gaktem]

Herb gathering is most tedious thing ever in any RPG. And nothing breaks immersion more than ride the horse every 2 feet just to get down picking flowers.
So the less gathering the better. :cheers:

 

[GHOSTMD]

ride the horse every 2 feet just to get down picking flowers.

Who the fuck would do that? On this distance... really?! Just find a good place with different herbs around.
Get them and you' re fine... so gathering ingredients insn' t going to break MY playthrough.

Shitte potion effects breaking it... yeah you know what i mean

 

[Geralt_of_bsas]

There are still BETTER ways to do that.
Okay, let's say I WOULD be okay with BASIC potions refilling automatically. Then at LEAST make it so that I need ingredients EVERY TIME I want to make an ADVANCED/UPGRADED potion.

That would keep the ingredient gathering aspect (not a lot needed, just a few leaves for each upgraded potion vial) while still providing you with the option to ALWAYS have potions in your inventory after meditation. Only basic ones, sure, but you always got potions. Want more powerful ones? Collect ingredients.

I mean hell, it's not like collecting ingredients is SO DAMN HARD. It's not. Plants are EVERYWHERE along the way as far as we saw on the mini-map in the gameplay footage and we know monster loot contains a lot of alchemical ingredients as well. So where is the problem?

Or - another way to do it - make the potions refill automatically but if you do not use ingredients the potions effects are REDUCED (- 40% effect).

There are SO MANY WAYS that we all recommended and suggested. But they went over them and said "nope, we want every potion, basic and upgraded to just be like a normal buff in an MMO. They can only be used a certain amount of times in combat, they are short in duration (all not a problem IMO) but they auto-refill every time you meditate as long as you got some booze".

I mean come on, we had enough ideas to keep the basic concept of making alchemy a more important part of the game without COMPLETELY abandoning the concept of ingredient gathering after the first brewing. But alas, they didn't want to.

It's just a damn shame IMO.

I know there are probably better ways, calm down, I wasnt discussing that.

In my opinion as I already said, the problem both witcher games had is that potions were never fun and worth enough to use. Making them cost less isnt the same as making them be more valuable, thats what I think might be their mistake in TW3.

Mistake that however, wont screw up things much, both witcher games also had practically unlimited potions with 0 effort, but I consider a system that remains similar with problems unsolved a failure.

About herbs not being hard to get, didnt you read the Q&A? that was exactly the reason the gathering of them was reduced, or at least made less consistent. Herb gathering is boring and more or less worthless, because it wasnt hard in any way, no challenge = no game = no fun (of a particular type of fun), so they reduced how much time that consumed in the general gameplay. Not my way to solve things, I'd rather keep a bit of believability and "relaxing" simple distractions in the game, albeit with some strategical challenge that doesnt put too much strain on the brain, but thats me.

It's a shame indeed, too late now. They decided to "fix" and improve some things, with good intentions of course, but choosed to accept unnecessary sacrifices in my opinion that could've been avoided, and additionally we dont know if they'll actually fix what they wanted.

By the way the system sounds now, I will make extensive use of it this game. So, they have succeeded with me.

Alright then, good for you, I hope it works for many more people. But the basic concept isnt...lets call it "the most idealistic vision", that is, lowering something's cost rather than increasing it's value. At the same time though, there will very special potions it seems, so I want to try it all to judge.

 

[azrael.1289]

I'm wondering what would happen if you just throw away the 0/3 charges remaining potion. Do you have to then rebrew it? Then isn't that the same as not auto refilling? So, can't you guys just do that?

---------- Updated at 08:16 AM ----------

Alright then, good for you, I hope it works for many more people. But the basic concept isnt...lets call it "the most idealistic vision", that is, lowering something's cost rather than increasing it's value. At the same time though, there will very special potions it seems, so I want to try it all to judge.

That just isn't your idealistic vision. When the barrier of entry is too high, no matter how much you increase the value, people would be reluctant to use it, so they reduced the cost.

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

I know there are probably better ways, calm down, I wasnt discussing that.

I was calm. I just like to use the BIG letters so the important words stand out.

In my opinion as I already said, the problem both witcher games had is that potions were never fun and worth enough to use. Making them cost less isnt the same as making them be more valuable, thats what I think might be their mistake in TW3.

I do 100% agree on this statement.

About herbs not being hard to get, didnt you read the Q&A? that was exactly the reason the gathering of them was reduced, or at least made less consistent. Herb gathering is boring and more or less worthless, because it wasnt hard in any way, no challenge = no game = no fun (of a particular type of fun), so they reduced how much time that consumed in the general gameplay. Not my way to solve things, I'd rather keep a bit of believability and "relaxing" simple distractions in the game, albeit with some strategical challenge that doesnt put too much strain on the brain, but thats me.

Sorry, but I'm just quoting from the developers here. I might be paraphrasing here and there but they said a lot of times, and yes also recently, that they made the ingredients for the potions "harder to get in general" "but therefore you only need to collect them once".

I just do not approve of the strategy of completely getting rid of herb gathering while at the same time making the first-time-gathering take longer. It basically ends up being like buffs in an MMO where you need to meet certain conditions to "unlock" the buff and afterwards can use it in every combat a set amount of times.

The immersion as well as the resource management of potions was always very important for me, which is for example one of the reasons why I did like the system in TW1 the most and was disappointed by the system in TW2, due to the fact that the potions lost their secondary ingredients, did only last 10 min and herbs were basically everywhere.

In TW2 you had a reasonably spread amount of ingredients in each major hub and you could make a big variety of potions with different active or passive effects, which all had their advantages and disadvantages, with toxicity being an additional factor in the formula, as well as the secondary ingredients which did have good benefits if you knew how to use them.

Now all we have is potions for which we need to collect ingredients one time, afterward they will just refill and have the same effect when meditating, only using alcohol to make them, not herbs.

Like I said, I would be fine with any number of compromises, like basic potions refilling and needing some (not many) ingredients for upgraded versions of them, or all potions refilling automatically IF you do not use ALL of the "uses" they have, or potions refilling but with reduced effect and if you want a "normal" effect having to collect some (again, not many) ingredients.

There are a sh*t ton of herbs all around Geralt on the map in the gameplay videos, there is an overabundance of them just being there. Even if you need more herbs for each potion to make it the first time, more than you needed in the previous games, even then it doesn't add up, it is a waste of herbs being all around you.

If there are too many herbs it either becomes painful to find the right, more rare ones, or it becomes to easy to make a potion, which means you get the potions too quickly and have them unlocked very fast and very early in the game.

For what do we need ingredients do I ask you?
For the first time brewing a potion you answer, and maybe some "special" ones for the decoctions.

Then why are there so many herbs around?
No idea.

What do we need to refill potions?
A specific alcohol.

Where do we get it?
Shops

Is buying specific types of alcohol from shops every time less annoying then picking herbs while going in the direction of you next quest?
IMO not, the latter is less annoying.

From EVERYTHING I have seen so far, and I saw almost every preview from the guys that were in Poland, it does strike me as an overall boring system that does not change ANYTHING positive and does not do anything other than streamline the alchemy system.

Maybe the system of TW1 was not completely perfect.
Maybe the system of TW2 (a system that was already streamlined in comparison to TW1) was deeply flawed.

But what they do in TW3 is not the right solution IMO and I (and others) have been saying this since they first revealed they wanted to include an auto-refill for potions.

And again, I agree that the main problem of the potions in TW2 was that only a few of the potions were really GOOD potions, only a few were viable and effective, and only a few were ever used. You never needed them, you had to meditate (and be out of combat) to take them and they had a very short duration. That was the real problem.

And what did they do?
They made the duration even shorter and they made the ingredients unnecessary after the first time (while still having tons of herbs being around). The only GOOD thing they MIGHT have done is increase the variety in potions, but we can only tell that once we got out hands on it. Other than that they did not solve the problem, they just made it bigger and streamlined the feature to an extend that it is almost non-existent and self-managing.

Self-Managing. In an RPG.

A little bit automatism is not bad, don't get me wrong. I don't want to do tedious things.
But they basically did this:

- Heavily reduced the exploration-encouraging aspect of searching for ingredients (it HAD to be reduced, I agree, but not to that EXTEND IMO) eliminating resource management
- Reduced the time potions last (maybe not bad inherently, especially since you can take them anytime, increases the amount of strategy you need when using the potions in combat)
- Negated Experimentation (they did do that in TW2 already and it made the system more dull)

Here is what I like about the new alchemy:

- Can take potions in combat
- Toxicity has negative effects
- Toxicity has visual effects
- Upgraded version of potions
- Better potion variety
- More strategy due to short potion durations in relatively long fights (especially boss fights)
- Potion slots that limit amount of potions you can take DURING COMBAT
- Multiple uses for one potion
- Mutagenic potions / Decoctions

Here is what I do not like:

- Extreme reduction of ingredient gathering // auto-refill
- Overabundance of herbs in the world for no apparent reason
- Herbs are said to be "harder to find" (according to developers)
- Needing alcohol for refilling, but no ingredients
- No experimentation
- Upgraded potions ALSO refill on their own (no reason to use the basic potions anymore?)


It looks like the pros overweight the cons, in numbers.
But in terms of impact those few cons tip the balance for me and make the system less fun and interesting for me.

I'm wondering what would happen if you just throw away the 0/3 charges remaining potion. Do you have to then rebrew it? Then isn't that the same as not auto refilling? So, can't you guys just do that?

That would be amazing.
In fact that would be the only acceptable explanations for so many herbs being around in my book.
If they go ahead and say "you can throw away the potion after you have emptied them to avoid refilling them, and we made so many herbs all around to support this playstyle for those guys who like the ingredient gathering", then I would applaud them and be happy with it. Still some negative points, sure, and a shame about no experimentation or secondary ingredients, but that would solve the auto-refill problem, the "waste of resources that there are so many herbs around you'll never need" problem as well as the "upgraded potions make basic potions useless" problem.

[MENTION]Damien Monnier[/MENTION] and @Marcin Momot

Can we actually throw away the potions/potion vials so that we will HAVE to gather ingredients and make the potion again? That would really be good and help a lot in my case.

 

[val.mitev]

There are a sh*t ton of herbs all around Geralt on the map in the gameplay videos, there is an overabundance of them just being there. Even if you need more herbs for each potion to make it the first time, more than you needed in the previous games, even then it doesn't add up, it is a waste of herbs being all around you.

If there are too many herbs it either becomes painful to find the right, more rare ones, or it becomes to easy to make a potion, which means you get the potions too quickly and have them unlocked very fast and very early in the game.

I think the reason there are so many herbs around is to facilitate the creation of the basic potions, to introduce players to the alchemy and the potion use.
Basically the low level potions would have easily collectible ingredients, so that players don't have to spend too much time trying to collect them. To me that is understandable and reasonable.
This doesn't mean that it will be easy to find everything needed for the potion upgrades or the upgrade recipes as well.

If I remember correctly CDPR said that a lot of players didn't bother with the potions and the alchemy in the previous games, to that end they are trying to make it more approachable, making it fun for new comers while still providing enough challenge in finding the rare ingredients for the high level potions for those interested.
The proper use of potions should be especially useful on the higher difficulty settings, which should make them quite important then, thus the hunt for the better ingredients a necessity.

- Extreme reduction of ingredient gathering // auto-refill
- Overabundance of herbs in the world for no apparent reason
- Herbs are said to be "harder to find" (according to developers)
- Needing alcohol for refilling, but no ingredients
- No experimentation
- Upgraded potions ALSO refill on their own (no reason to use the basic potions anymore?)

I understand you discontent, if you asked me some month ago, I would have probably agreed with most of your points, but now that there is more information about the various systems, it started to make sense why they've chosen the way things are now and how they are trying to balance the various game systems.

The ingredient gathering could turn into a chore, especially now with the low potion duration, which I find a good choice, combined with the rest of the game stuff.
The auto refill is also a way to make potions more attractive to use, in a way that you don't have to constantly gather ingredients, thus the chore part.
The alcohol seem to be a way to at least have to keep a supply of something for potion creation, it would be great if the alcohol quality affects the potion quality.

My take on the overabundance of basic herbs I mentioned above. The harder to find ones, well, we'll just have to wait and see how hard it actually is.

Was is confirmed that there would be no experimentation? That was something that I was really looking forward to.

Can we actually throw away the potions/potion vials so that we will HAVE to gather ingredients and make the potion again? That would really be good and help a lot in my case.

I don't think that would be the case.

In the end it is up to your preferences whether you like the game systems or not, but I think there's sound reasoning behind those choices and at least I'm looking forward to exploring them myself. If some of them turn out to be not as good as intended, hopefully they'll address that in a timely manner.

 

[web-head91]

I was calm. I just like to use the BIG letters so the important words stand out.



I do 100% agree on this statement.



Sorry, but I'm just quoting from the developers here. I might be paraphrasing here and there but they said a lot of times, and yes also recently, that they made the ingredients for the potions "harder to get in general" "but therefore you only need to collect them once".

I just do not approve of the strategy of completely getting rid of herb gathering while at the same time making the first-time-gathering take longer. It basically ends up being like buffs in an MMO where you need to meet certain conditions to "unlock" the buff and afterwards can use it in every combat a set amount of times.

The immersion as well as the resource management of potions was always very important for me, which is for example one of the reasons why I did like the system in TW1 the most and was disappointed by the system in TW2, due to the fact that the potions lost their secondary ingredients, did only last 10 min and herbs were basically everywhere.

In TW2 you had a reasonably spread amount of ingredients in each major hub and you could make a big variety of potions with different active or passive effects, which all had their advantages and disadvantages, with toxicity being an additional factor in the formula, as well as the secondary ingredients which did have good benefits if you knew how to use them.

Now all we have is potions for which we need to collect ingredients one time, afterward they will just refill and have the same effect when meditating, only using alcohol to make them, not herbs.

Like I said, I would be fine with any number of compromises, like basic potions refilling and needing some (not many) ingredients for upgraded versions of them, or all potions refilling automatically IF you do not use ALL of the "uses" they have, or potions refilling but with reduced effect and if you want a "normal" effect having to collect some (again, not many) ingredients.

There are a sh*t ton of herbs all around Geralt on the map in the gameplay videos, there is an overabundance of them just being there. Even if you need more herbs for each potion to make it the first time, more than you needed in the previous games, even then it doesn't add up, it is a waste of herbs being all around you.

If there are too many herbs it either becomes painful to find the right, more rare ones, or it becomes to easy to make a potion, which means you get the potions too quickly and have them unlocked very fast and very early in the game.

For what do we need ingredients do I ask you?
For the first time brewing a potion you answer, and maybe some "special" ones for the decoctions.

Then why are there so many herbs around?
No idea.

What do we need to refill potions?
A specific alcohol.

Where do we get it?
Shops

Is buying specific types of alcohol from shops every time less annoying then picking herbs while going in the direction of you next quest?
IMO not, the latter is less annoying.

From EVERYTHING I have seen so far, and I saw almost every preview from the guys that were in Poland, it does strike me as an overall boring system that does not change ANYTHING positive and does not do anything other than streamline the alchemy system.

Maybe the system of TW1 was not completely perfect.
Maybe the system of TW2 (a system that was already streamlined in comparison to TW1) was deeply flawed.

But what they do in TW3 is not the right solution IMO and I (and others) have been saying this since they first revealed they wanted to include an auto-refill for potions.

And again, I agree that the main problem of the potions in TW2 was that only a few of the potions were really GOOD potions, only a few were viable and effective, and only a few were ever used. You never needed them, you had to meditate (and be out of combat) to take them and they had a very short duration. That was the real problem.

And what did they do?
They made the duration even shorter and they made the ingredients unnecessary after the first time (while still having tons of herbs being around). The only GOOD thing they MIGHT have done is increase the variety in potions, but we can only tell that once we got out hands on it. Other than that they did not solve the problem, they just made it bigger and streamlined the feature to an extend that it is almost non-existent and self-managing.

Self-Managing. In an RPG.

A little bit automatism is not bad, don't get me wrong. I don't want to do tedious things.
But they basically did this:

- Heavily reduced the exploration-encouraging aspect of searching for ingredients (it HAD to be reduced, I agree, but not to that EXTEND IMO) eliminating resource management
- Reduced the time potions last (maybe not bad inherently, especially since you can take them anytime, increases the amount of strategy you need when using the potions in combat)
- Negated Experimentation (they did do that in TW2 already and it made the system more dull)

Here is what I like about the new alchemy:

- Can take potions in combat
- Toxicity has negative effects
- Toxicity has visual effects
- Upgraded version of potions
- Better potion variety
- More strategy due to short potion durations in relatively long fights (especially boss fights)
- Potion slots that limit amount of potions you can take DURING COMBAT
- Multiple uses for one potion
- Mutagenic potions / Decoctions

Here is what I do not like:

- Extreme reduction of ingredient gathering // auto-refill
- Overabundance of herbs in the world for no apparent reason
- Herbs are said to be "harder to find" (according to developers)
- Needing alcohol for refilling, but no ingredients
- No experimentation
- Upgraded potions ALSO refill on their own (no reason to use the basic potions anymore?)


It looks like the pros overweight the cons, in numbers.
But in terms of impact those few cons tip the balance for me and make the system less fun and interesting for me.



That would be amazing.
In fact that would be the only acceptable explanations for so many herbs being around in my book.
If they go ahead and say "you can throw away the potion after you have emptied them to avoid refilling them, and we made so many herbs all around to support this playstyle for those guys who like the ingredient gathering", then I would applaud them and be happy with it. Still some negative points, sure, and a shame about no experimentation or secondary ingredients, but that would solve the auto-refill problem, the "waste of resources that there are so many herbs around you'll never need" problem as well as the "upgraded potions make basic potions useless" problem.

Damien Monnier and @Marcin Momot

Can we actually throw away the potions/potion vials so that we will HAVE to gather ingredients and make the potion again? That would really be good and help a lot in my case.

i fully agree with everything you said and thank you for taking time to write such an extensive and clear overview of alchemy system. Seriously, i LOVE you (no homo).
Also, i know there are many who are saying that compromises had to be made to appeal to new players and those who find alchemy boring and not appealing, but that doesn't justify all the cons that this fine gentlemen just summed up in his post, and the way they've been going about is not the right approach. i could care less about new commers and the newbies, i want to enjoy the experience the way i want, not force it down my throat because there have been certain "successful" RPGs with all their streamlining (i'm looking at you skyrim and DA:I).
you want to satisfy both casuals, new commers and hard core gamers ? easy, have the auto-refill feature optional or linked to a difficulty level.
there ! solved ! you want to make alchemy attractive ? sure, make it so by having affect other skills and attributes ( like dexterity/strength elixers in gothic 2 with rare ingredients to find).

 

[dragonbird]

you want to satisfy both casuals, new commers and hard core gamers ? easy, have the auto-refill feature optional or linked to a difficulty level.

Sorry, but no. It's one thing for you to say that you like collecting plants, but please don't diss other gamers as casual or newcomers just because they have other priorities in a game. Argue in favour of one method over another as much as you like, but this is still no more than YOU want to enjoy the experience the way YOU want. Which is fine, but don't put-down others.

And this is still a discussion about different systems, there is nothing inherently "difficult" about the system in TW1 or TW2. It's just different.

 

[web-head91]

Sorry, but no. It's one thing for you to say that you like collecting plants, but please don't diss other gamers as casual or newcomers just because they have other priorities in a game. Argue in favour of one method over another as much as you like, but this is still no more than YOU want to enjoy the experience the way YOU want. Which is fine, but don't put-down others.

And this is still a discussion about different systems, there is nothing inherently "difficult" about the system in TW1 or TW2. It's just different.

i only mentionned that detail because it was mentionned multiple times by CDPR that they wished to appeal to a wider audience and that new commers wouldn't find the overall experience, alchemy included, not difficult. i was only explaining and did not intend to insult anyone. nothing more
It is true that gathering herbs is not difficult, but some claim it to be a chore/farming/grindy etc..., thus my point. to have the auto-refill optional for those who don't care much for gathering herbs or the new commers who simply want to focus on other things such as the story.

 

[dragonbird]

i only mentionned that detail because it was mentionned multiple times by CDPR that they wished to appeal to a wider audience and that new commers wouldn't find the overall experience, alchemy included, not difficult. i was only explaining and did not intend to insult anyone.

Thanks for clarifying, because the other thing to remember is that they also said multiple times that it was changed based on what they observed from the other two games, which means player feedback from those who are NOT newcomers or casuals.

 

[thislsmadness]

i only mentionned that detail because it was mentionned multiple times by CDPR that they wished to appeal to a wider audience and that new commers wouldn't find the overall experience, alchemy included, not difficult. i was only explaining and did not intend to insult anyone.

When did they ever say that? Damien doesnt mention it at all in his explaination:

One of the reasons behind this is that with the open world it quickly became a pain to go really far to grab that one plant you need for a potion. If it’s a potion you use often there is no challenge in that, it’s just annoying. So instead the challenge shifts to when you first make it, the ingredients are not easy to find, but once you have learned to make it you’re good and you can refill it. This doesn’t get rid of the challenge at all; like I said we’ve just shifted it to the initial crafting phase of the potion rather than have pointless repetitiveness. It’s much better and fits our world.

 

[web-head91]

Thanks for clarifying, because the other thing to remember is that they also said multiple times that it was changed based on what they observed from the other two games, which means player feedback from those who are NOT newcomers or casuals.

you're very welcome my good sir (or madam)
well if what you're saying is true, then this thread would've not existed or would've died ages ago. furthermore, the poll seems to show that the players are rather divided on the matter: those who like TW1 approach and those who like more TW3 new system or want to see how it'll be when the game's out. whatever feedback they had, one thing is certain: there isn't any concensus on the matter and opinions are rather divided as i already mentionned.

---------- Updated at 03:52 PM ----------

When did they ever say that? Damien doesnt mention it at all in his explaination:

i'd go look for where i heard/saw it, but i'm too damn lazy and got some other matters to take care of XD
i remember it being said in in interviews, both written and audio visual. And i think even M. Monnier himself said something similar to what mentionned before in a video (forgot which one it was).
My apologies for not being much helpful.