The Witcher 3 for Linux

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

On the topic. A rare but vague answer on this subject from Mateusz Tomaszkiewicz of CDPR which indicates "some interest" in supporting SteamOS (which means Linux support in essence):

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZOUXbJQKmaU&t=30m30s

Q: Hi. I was just curios what CD Projekt Red's position on SteamOS and Steambox is? Does it interest you, or it's just an extra road(?) on the ladder(?) of platforms you support?

A: I think it's more of a question to my superiors to be honest, but... hehe. I know that it's not out of the question. I know that there is some interest in it, but as I said, it's not, you know, kind of decision that I could make or even be included into.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

I just saw this Q&A: http://www.sticktwiddlers.com/2013/10/23/cd-projekt-red-the-witcher-3-wild-hunt-qa/

Are there any plans to bring the Witcher series to Linux?

“No plans for now but who knows what the future holds in store.”

So, nothing new with this. We'll have to wait until CDPR management will change their attitude towards Linux.

 

[dragonbird]

Just a guess, but I think it would be more likely to happen with CP77 (which might mean an update to TW3). They've been carefully NOT confirming what the platforms will be for CP77, so I suspect they're still exploring/experimenting.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

After reading some recent article about CDPR almost going bankrupt, I got a feeling they are not too comfortable with experimenting beyond their established grounds, or running ahead of others technologically. While they say GOG is innovative, the lack of Linux support (while many others already sell Linux games) shows that they are pretty conservative, rather than "bleeding edge" in their approach.

So, while developers of Metro Last Light say "yes, Linux all the way, it's time to develop for it" even though Linux gaming market is only starting to experience renaissance, CDPR apparently want to wait and not run ahead. It could be resources problem, however they never explicitly confirmed it.

Whether it will be CP 2077 or future updates to the Witcher 3, it will take some time before they'll get to it. May be the rise of SteamOS will boost their confidence. So far, monitoring their job offerings doesn't show much. OpenGL is mentioned once. And Linux positions are related to administration, not to game development.

 

[volsung]

They should start by using cross platform technologies instead of becoming progressively more dependant on exclusives.

Imagine all the work and time they'd save with Mac OS X and GNU/Linux versions if they did.

I have the impression sooner or later they'll have to provide a SteamOS version. Maybe 4A can help ?

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

There are going to be some technical talks directed to those who are interested in poring existing titles to Linux. For example: http://www.steamdevdays.com/?p=sessions

Getting Started with Linux Game Development
Ryan Gordon - Icculus

This talk is designed for Windows Steam developers that are interested in preparing their games to run on Linux. It will cover available tools, the basic porting flowchart, and common problems and their solutions.

I have no idea how experienced CDPR is in this field. I'm not sure what Windows Steam developer means vs. just Windows developer for example (may be Steam only APIs or something), but this can be generally useful too potentially. Hopefully CDPR will avoid any nasty Steam lock-ins when making their Linux / SteamOS ports.

 

[volsung]

I'm guessing Steam developers is simply what they call the devs whose games they sell. Worst case scenario, it's a talk oriented to porting games that use Valve's Source Engine (Half-Life 2, Portal 1 & 2, etc.), which they ported to Linux themselves. In any case, it sounds like a good encouragement for companies, small and big, to try out Linux gaming.

Ironic that it is Valve who supports all this, while DRM-free companies stay behind.

In the case of CDPR, if a well established and experienced company offered Linux development support, I wonder if they would try it? That's why they're using Nvidia's PhysX, isn't it? Maybe they need a little push.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

In their case they'll probably prefer to do it all in house, after they got burned with outsourcing Witcher 1 console port. But for that they need to hire good Linux gaming developers. PhysX is already a complete product, so it's not like they risk it not being complete in time. Linux port of their engine on the other hand is something that doesn't exist yet.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

A few interesting development in CDPR:

New Linux related job offering for the Cyberpunk 2077 team: http://cdpred.com/senior-network-programmer/

And what's more interesting, graphics programmer position (for both CP2077 and TW3): http://cdpred.com/senior-graphics-programmer/ which mentions knowledge of OpenGL as a plus.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

A list of open source components used in PlayStation 4: http://www.scei.co.jp/ps4-license/

In general it looks like POSIX based system. So if CDPR is developing for it, it shouldn't be extremely hard for them to develop for Linux too.

It's interesting to note that Opus audio codec is listed there.

 

[GuyNwah]

An list of open source components used in PlayStation 4: http://www.scei.co.jp/ps4-license/

In general it looks like POSIX based system. So if CDPR is developing for it, it shouldn't be extremely hard for them to develop for Linux too.

It's interesting to note that Opus audio codec is listed there.

Looks like a BSD-ish system, not a Linux-ish one. FreeBSD kernel and lots of MIT, BSD, and some LGPL licensed components. They may be doing GPL avoidance. I certainly would be skeptical of any GPL code in a product you intend to keep closed.

From a userland programming point of view, there's not much difference; it's all POSIX as long as you avoid platform-specific special features.

 

[adridu59]

PS4 runs Orbis, a FreeBSD fork from Sony.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

For the reference and those who follow this thread, @jerf found a comment on Linux support from Marcin Iwiński:

http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/galyonkin.com/wp-content/podcast/Galyonkin-S02E52.mp3 (starting from 1:29:05).

With the Steambox, if they would be able to deliver a cool console, definitely we are interested in having our game there. One of the reasons we have not released the Witcher on Linux is that you'd most probably have to address five different versions of Linux and this is always terrible to support the quality of the game afterwards, the patches, the updates and everything. If Steam will deliver a constant Linux environment call it SteamOS or anything like that we would love to have our games there, because you know - the more people play our games, the better for us.

Though, the obvious question is, why can't they use some reference distro already now, like SteamOS does? For example the same Debian stable (that's what SteamOS is using). All in all, his arguments sound uninformed.

 

[volsung]

They really are uninformed. It's almost like they're repeating rumors they read online or that their IT guy made up. This is very unlike CDPR. They've been decisive about DRM, but Linux gaming seems to scare them.

I also think choosing a reference distribution is a simple answer to their simple dilemma. Same goes for GOG.

 

[jerf.674]

For the reference and those who follow this thread, @jerf found a comment on Linux support from Marcin Iwiński:

http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/galyonkin.com/wp-content/podcast/Galyonkin-S02E52.mp3 (starting from 1:29:05).



Though, the obvious question is, why can't they use some reference distro already now, like SteamOS does? For example the same Debian stable (that's what SteamOS is using). All in all, his arguments sound uninformed.

They can also do the same thing Valve does with Steam Runtime: just ship all the libraries with the games. It works very well in Steam.

But you're right that his arguments, unfortunately, sound uninformed, and that it'd be great if CDPR could contact Ryan Gordon.
I'll repost here the links to Ryan Gordon's talks at Steam Dev Days (where he, for instance, refutes the beliefs that Linux distro fragmentation is a problem), in hopes that somebody from CDPR reads this
Getting Started with Linux Game Development video
Getting Started with Linux Game Development pdf
Game Development with SDL 2.0 video
Game Development with SDL 2.0 pdf

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

But you're right that his arguments, unfortunately, sound uninformed, and that it'd be great if CDPR could contact Ryan Gordon.
I'll repost here the links to Ryan Gordon's talks at Steam Dev Days (where he, for instance, refutes the beliefs that Linux distro fragmentation is a problem), in hopes that somebody from CDPR reads this
Getting Started with Linux Game Development video
Getting Started with Linux Game Development pdf
Game Development with SDL 2.0 video
Game Development with SDL 2.0 pdf

Try contacting moderators from CDPR (for example @Keth), and ask them to direct these comments to their management. CDPR always said they appreciated feedback from their users. In this case when there is such apparent misinformation, it's good to point it out for them. I think CDPR have never properly researched Linux development and base such views on some old stereotypes which are long obsolete.

As you wrote, besides reference distro, bundling works very well to address many potential distributions. All this is really basic knowledge, not some arcane secrets of Linux development. The fact that CDPR have no clue about it is very telling.

 

[BoTuLoX]

How could Marcin Iwiński be mistaken about Linux?

Recently, Iwiński claimed in a podcast that in order to support Linux they would need to support multiple distros, something that has been debunked a thousand times before.

Without mentioning the easy, obvious solution of using the Steam runtime, they could statically link their libraries against a particular version of the team's desire.

Could someone from the stuff or PR notify him of his mistake, and ask for a clarification? A team as big as CD Projekt RED, capable of doing their own engine from scratch, should have no issue in getting the engine to use an OpenGL renderer, use SDL for the rest, and even drop DirectX altogether since both OGL and SDL work EVERYWHERE.

Moderator: Accusing anybody of lying is grounds for moderation. Repetition of such accusations is grounds for stronger action.

 

[Garrison72]

This is a topic better fit for the GOG forums. Although I suspect the linux issue has come up a lot over there.

 

[ReptilePZ]

This is a topic better fit for the GOG forums. Although I suspect the linux issue has come up a lot over there.

Yep, it's actually being discussed over here: http://forums.cdprojektred.com/thre...of-CDPR-Games-(Linux-Mac-OSX-and-etc-)/page18

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Some folks who attended Steam Dev Days, said that they saw developers from CDPR there on Linux development talks - that's a good sign:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/1y2hnr/cd_projekt_red_considering_the_witcher_3_for/cfgxcq7

They were at devdays, which focused a ton of time on Linux development. I saw witcher 3 shirts at every Linux dev talk. I'm sure they know

So, let's hope some things are starting to change in CDPR.

@BoTuLoX: I think Marcin is just misinformed, rather than trying to mislead anyone. He's repeating the same old mantra of distro fragmentation hydra out of being clueless. With their developers attending Linux dev talks, they'll have more internal push to straighten up such views.

Static linking isn't the best solution sometimes, because distribution rules can depend on the linking type. One can do dynamic linking with bundled libraries all the same though. It's a well known method. It's just CDPR think that they for some reason need a magical SteamOS to use it