I absolutely agree with you.CDPR is only getting bigger and TW3 is one of the most remarkable next gen games.
I assume they had very personal reasons or ambitions to leave.I was hoping they would witness the release at least.
Oh well.
I assume they had very personal reasons or ambitions to leave.I was hoping they would witness the release at least.
Oh well.
True. There must have been some really tough decision making going on. Also, sensational and click-bait titles on Polish gaming sites like "Witcher creators leave the studio" probably didn't help either with the share price drop. Effing journous.
Frankly I can relate to those guys. I did some time ago participate in something that started becoming big, and precisely this fact told me it was the very time to leave. Bigger company might mean bigger money, but usually it also means more bureaucracy, politics, form-filling, paperwork-making, meeting-sitting hassle. Smaller companies have problems of their own, but generally they tend to be more focused on what their goals. Perhaps this might be precisely what made the guys join 11bit, especially since it's creative business, and people like those two would prefer jostling with new ideas rather than waste their time performing corporate crap.
CDPR did not become some EE clone yet, and it is quite possible they never will. It all depends on people there. Quitting now is akin to walking off from a success and recognition, and starting anew, from scratch. Past performance does not mean a shit if they won't be able to make it work and be successful in a new place. But it is just some minor MOBILE indi dev, for crying out-loud! These are dime and a dozen. I mean MOBILE! Who would ever take this gig too seriously? I simply don't get it - from AAA story-driven RPG-project to indi mobile? It is like switching from teaching in Harvard to teaching in Community College in Oklahoma, or Alaska. There should be some big reasons behind such behavior especially given that it was not just one guy, but two major players.
300 people, even if some of them are non-development personnel, is big enough of a group to have all the corporate issues.
Plus, define success.
Professional recognition + money. I am pretty sure working for CDPR is more prestigious than for some mobile dev. Also if TW3 is a big hit, all major devs will get bonuses, and with stable financing will be set for several years to come. Given that CDPR is developing CP2077, and branching out into mobile market as well, I don't see any downside for staying with them, unless something pretty crucial on personal and professional level made it impossible.
@new&improved_vivaxardas: You are wrong. Development for mobile systems requires different design approach than one for desktop systems. From designer's perspective (as well as from developer's for that matter) it's an area of expertise. If you aren't exposed to it, you don't get experience. It's their choice whether they want to get that expertise or not. It's nothing to do with comparing Harvard with etc. That comparison was completely inappropriate. Don't assume that mobile design is an easy task.
For the reference, looks like that studio also develops for desktop Linux. CDPR doesn't (at least yet). No idea whether this is related to anything, just pointing out another difference.
For the reference, looks like that studio also develops for desktop Linux. CDPR doesn't (at least yet). No idea whether this is related to anything, just pointing out another difference.
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I am not saying anything about being easy, or not. I actually saying that if they were successful in CDPR, it does not mean they will be in mobile development.
I just checked out this 11 bit studio. They made 5 games, two of them, Funky Smugglers, and Sleepwalker' Journey are for mobiles, and now cost $0.99. Three Anomaly games are for PC, Mac, and mobiles, and cost $4.99-14.99. This is as low on a totem pole as it gets in terms of professional recognition. It means no E3 representation, no major exposition, nada. Does it look like a wise career move to anybody? Sure, they had reasons to leave, but those reasons should be pretty damn compelling in order to abandon success and go to work for a small mobile developer. So no, it is quite comparable to a move from Harvard or any other major school to some CC.
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Professional recognition has nothing to do with the price. A lot of developers produce free applications, so does it mean their efforts aren't recognized? I don't see any logic in that. I didn't play those games, so I can't comment on them (except that if by PC you meant Windows only, then it was wrong - Anomaly 2 at least has a Linux version as well). If you evaluate those games on their merit and consider them not interesting, bad or etc. that's another matter. Price has nothing to do with that however.
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Well, and I do not see your logic in implying that working for a major studio on major AAA projects is the same in terms of professional recognition and career advancement as working in an indi mobile studio. So let's just agree to disagree on this. I used to know a guy on his personal crusade against ivy league schools who claimed that CCs are no worse than upper tier schools, but, let's just say it is a minority opinion. The same with game developers, I guess.
Are you a developer yourself? Professional recognition comes from professionalism, not from the fact of working for the studio which makes AAA or indie projects. As simple as that. Tasks which one can work on in indie studio or a start-up can be as challenging as tasks in any big company. As others pointed out above, big company even can be a downside from professional perspective. Too much bureaucracy, no agile movement and etc.
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Probably, we run in different ways of life. From my experience professional recognition comes from doing something special, unique, contributing in unique way. It is not about how hard someone works, or about challenge, it is only about results. Creating great games, with great stories, something very different, unique, and visible. Like TW2, for example. While people in CDPR made TW2, 11 bit made Anomaly Warzone. I really don't want to argue about it. It seems you have some strong basic belief about equality of the games in this respect, and I do not. When a great dev spends his time working on small projects, for me it is simply a waste of talent.
And what does doing something special and unique have to do with the size of the company? I don't see any correlation. I bet a lot of great results which you use and simply never notice because you take them for granted are achieved by highly professional people which can be working in small companies.
And no, professional recognition is not coming from always working on something unique. It's coming from professionally doing something. It's great if it's unique - innovation is always extra special. But a lot of routine tasks require professional people as well (and highly professional). Saying that their work is not recognized is not showing them proper respect.
And no, professional recognition is not coming from always working on something unique. It's coming from professionally doing something. It's great if it's unique - innovation is always extra special. But a lot of routine tasks require professional people as well (and highly professional). Saying that their work is not recognized is not showing them proper respect.
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It is not about a size of a company, it is about a scale, complexity and significance of the projects. TW3 and CP2007 are very complex, mulch-faceted games that aspire to be unique and to create a new milestone in game design. If CDPR manage to pull it off, it will be big. 11 bit makes nice games, but they are nothing extraordinary. Sure, some indie managed to do impossible, but 11 bit is not among them, and I wouldn't bet it ever will, while it is very possible that CDPR is on its way to greatness.
But again, if someone does not care about industry-wide professional recognition, and prefers being a king in his own small kingdom to being one of many, leading a small studio might be appealing.
In any case, whatever their reasons, it is something I would prefer not to happen. Brings back bad memories about PB's gradual disintegration into a complete mess.
But again, if someone does not care about industry-wide professional recognition, and prefers being a king in his own small kingdom to being one of many, leading a small studio might be appealing.
In any case, whatever their reasons, it is something I would prefer not to happen. Brings back bad memories about PB's gradual disintegration into a complete mess.
It doesn't look to me that you are familiar with the technical industry where a lot of innovation today happens in smaller companies which work on various complex projects. Your assumption that such activity is limited to behemoth sized companies is simply false.
A recent example - Jolla: http://jolla.com They are a startup of something 80-90 people. Yet they produced a brilliant hardware product with a mobile operating system which I find much more appealing than anything produced by the monstrous sized Google, Apple, Microsoft and etc. So it's not about the size. You kind of guessed it yourself, when you said that the result matters.
A recent example - Jolla: http://jolla.com They are a startup of something 80-90 people. Yet they produced a brilliant hardware product with a mobile operating system which I find much more appealing than anything produced by the monstrous sized Google, Apple, Microsoft and etc. So it's not about the size. You kind of guessed it yourself, when you said that the result matters.
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Actually, I mentioned that some other indie devs innovate. I did not generalize, if you did not notice, but talk about CDPR and 11 bit specifically. CDPR is trying to make a mile-stone RPG, while 11 bit did not make anything recognizable yet. So it is about abandoning a very probably successful project (plus, CDPR has other divisions, mobile included) in favor of a mobile developer with no real significance, that's all. May be miracle will happen, and 11 bit will make something great similar to Mount&Blade or Minecraft, but to bet on it is crazy.
Well, if you weren't talking in general - fine, but then you must know what 11 bit are doing to assess how innovative or complex their projects are. As I said - I didn't play their games, I can't compare.
But to give another example, Doug Ten Napel and Co. now work on Armikrog which they crowdfunded (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/armikrog/armikrog) and they are easily classified as indie developers. But it doesn't reduce their professional recognition in any way - they are talented animators and designers, creators of Neverhood, Earthworm Jim and other great projects.
But to give another example, Doug Ten Napel and Co. now work on Armikrog which they crowdfunded (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/armikrog/armikrog) and they are easily classified as indie developers. But it doesn't reduce their professional recognition in any way - they are talented animators and designers, creators of Neverhood, Earthworm Jim and other great projects.
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Yet CP 2077 was just around the corner. I mean they were right there. It's also not a good thing to lose all that experience, but then again, CDPR has enough notoriety to get the attention of industry veterans. Truth is, they've lost quite a few devs over the years.
Edit - ok, so they went to 11 bit. That makes sense, and 11-bit doesn't just make mobile games. They released Anomaly on all platforms I believe and it's a pretty innovate tower defense game. Plus, they'll be working with former co-workers. This is much like the CDPR devs who left to join FWH.
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