The Witcher 3 - Visuals

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Not sure why SoD is in the same category of Debut and VGX when it comes to atmosphere and tone. They're different to me.

Not that different to me, although there's a few scenes in it that feels different to me already, but in over all I think it leans more up against VGX/DEBUT.

Anyway the reason for the sharp distinction with DEBUT/VGX/SOD vs newer materiel is properly because the whole issue about downgrade and or change in color palette started with what was released after SOD IIRC.
 
Not that different to me, although there's a few scenes in it that feels different to me already, but in over all I think it leans more up against VGX/DEBUT.

Anyway the reason for the sharp distinction with DEBUT/VGX/SOD vs newer materiel is properly because the whole issue about downgrade and or change in color palette started with what was released after SOD IIRC.

I completely disagree, the shift in tone from debut to SOD, is way more noticeable than the shift between SOD and other newer material (which arent trailers anyway so we cant compare much)

Its the SOD version of the game the one that ended the grim and depressing atmosphere of the early footage, at least in specific scenes, because as seen in the 4K screenshot and swamps of the 35min vid TW3 can still totally achieve "dark and grittiness".

Debut is one thing, VGX another, and SOD another, VGX acting as a middle ground a bit more or less, but SOD and Debut look NOTHING alike, the difference is brutal. GDC and PAX look way way way closer to SOD on every level, graphics, color, atmosphere, technical features, you name it.
 
Just remember the swamp in the gameplay video.

I guess there will be enough of both "grit" and "disneylandish" atmosphere depending on the weather system n stuff.
 
I completely disagree, the shift in tone from debut to SOD, is way more noticeable than the shift between SOD and other newer material (which arent trailers anyway so we cant compare much)

Its the SOD version of the game the one that ended the grim and depressing atmosphere of the early footage, at least in specific scenes, because as seen in the 4K screenshot and swamps of the 35min vid TW3 can still totally achieve "dark and grittiness".

Debut is one thing, VGX another, and SOD another, VGX acting as a middle ground a bit more or less, but SOD and Debut look NOTHING alike, the difference is brutal. GDC and PAX look way way way closer to SOD on every level, graphics, color, atmosphere, technical features, you name it.

I don't disagree that there's a difference between the trailers. I cannot however discuss the graphic technicalities that is missing between the three because I have no idea as I am no expert on that subject and as mentioned on the page before this I have refrained from discussing "downgrade" as I don't see a downgrade per-say. That particular issue have never been a subject to me.

My issue have always been "the feel" or atmosphere if you will have changed when I compare those three trailers against the newer material and not only the trailers but screenshots too. To me there simple was a "moodier", more mature, more realistic, deeper, denser, "dirtier", believable and so on atmosphere/feel in the earlier materiel compared to the new. As such I felt it captivated me more and by so I felt a deeper immersion. I don't have that feel nearly as much when I watch the newer stuff - I am sorry but I simply don't. And I have every trailer and screenshot on my computer and the "change"or feel in atmosphere hits me still today when I watch them all in a row.

So what changed? Honestly I cannot say in total but as far as I have pinned it down to it has to do with a change in color palette; the colors seem brighter or more saturated in the newer material if you will. Then there's a change in the art direction to some extent and finally to some degree lighting. There's probably other things like a sharpening filter and so on but then we get technical and as mentioned I am no expert and I have to give up.

Anyway whatever the reason is it's really not that irrelevant, what is, is the fact that others have felt it too because it was with materiel released after SOD that this whole issue "blew up" with downgrade talks, change in atmosphere and whatnot. It simple wasn't there before then IIRC. Others have pointed out like you that SOD seem "downgraded"/different too but as mentioned I refrained and still refrain from talking downgrade but I did and do point out that I feel a change in atmosphere when comparing DEBUT/VGX/SOD to stuff released after that.
 
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I've come to expect games with day night cycles to go from a warm color palette during the day to a cool palette during the night. Some people enjoy the rain and others find it depressing, gloomy and or sad yet neither are wrong. The same can be said (more or less) about the sun being out. Anything can happen be it day or night and even though the color palettes may change the people are still the same. We are the ones that make this world what it is and the colors are nothing more than a backdrop for our story. In that sense when we walk into the witcher's world we'll all have different experiences. What may be a dark, dreadful cave for some may be a peaceful place for others. I personally cannot wait to share stories amongst one another.
 
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We are the ones that make this world what it is and the colors are nothing more than a backdrop for our story.

This is true for some non-atmospheric games. But in The Witcher colors are important, and W2 was failure concerning this.

Imagine Stalker games with over-saturated colors and overdone bloom? It can't work.
 
Imagine Stalker games with over-saturated colors and overdone bloom? It can't work.

That's a redundant comparison. The Witcher's world is vast, varied and there's nothing in some kind of "Witcher Rulebook" that every part of the world has to match the same colours and atmosphere of the locations in The Witcher 1, or be consistently dark/grey/gritty like STALKER.

The only thing The Witcher 2 failed at is meeting certain expectations that specific people placed upon it, because of their opinion about how the Witcher world should look/feel like.
For many of us it did a perfectly wonderful job at representing the locations chosen for each Act, both in regards to use of colours/artstyle/lighting and overall atmosphere.

In The Witcher 3 we are going to see 35 times more physical land than what we saw in TW2, and naturally that means ever more opportunity for the natural variety that a world, and yes, even The Witcher world, contains.
 
My issue have always been "the feel" or atmosphere if you will have changed when I compare those three trailers against the newer material and not only the trailers but screenshots too. To me there simple was a "moodier", more mature, more realistic, deeper, denser, "dirtier", believable and so on atmosphere/feel in the earlier materiel compared to the new. As such I felt it captivated me more and by so I felt a deeper immersion. I don't have that feel nearly as much when I watch the newer stuff - I am sorry but I simply don't. And I have every trailer and screenshot on my computer and the "change"or feel in atmosphere hits me still today when I watch them all in a row.

For me, I think the opposite. I feel like the more recent footage is more realistic and provides a more interesting backdrop to watch change. Who knows? Maybe due to your decision making and the dynamic quest structure you'll end up losing any pleasant weather and sink everything in snow or some greater extent of No Man's Land could become even more war torn and desolate, meaning everything looks even more grim and worthless. I think the contrasts and juxtapositions are important in a world like this and having the same dulled tone won't be as expressive or valuable as a method of storytelling if it is the entire 100 - 200 hour experience.

I think my major point is a grey world for 100h + hours would be a bit meh, especially since there are loads of other games going for the moody grey vibe for the entire experience. I think a varied world with a varied realistic palette is more interesting, especially with the dynamics of world influence the player has.

(also let us take a moment to reflect on the idea of disney making a witcher adaptation. WHO'S GOT DISNEYLAND COLOURS NOW?!)
 
That's a redundant comparison. The Witcher's world is vast, varied and there's nothing in some kind of "Witcher Rulebook" that every part of the world has to match the same colours and atmosphere of the locations in The Witcher 1, or be consistently dark/grey/gritty like STALKER.

The only thing The Witcher 2 failed at is meeting certain expectations that specific people placed upon it, because of their opinion about how the Witcher world should look/feel like.
For many of us it did a perfectly wonderful job at representing the locations chosen for each Act, both in regards to use of colours/artstyle/lighting and overall atmosphere.

In The Witcher 3 we are going to see 35 times more physical land than what we saw in TW2, and naturally that means ever more opportunity for the natural variety that a world, and yes, even The Witcher world, contains.

Stalker isn't always dark/gritty. It has dynamic weather, sunny moments too. This is especially true for Clear Sky.
But it nailed atmosphere perfectly.

The same i can say for Witcher 1. And i know more people who were not satisfied with over-saturated Witcher 2, then the people who were.

And all i ask is that they tone down some effects, like sunset color in the last W3 video which turns game to look like old Disney cartoons.
Btw, in the previous, older, 37min. video sunset looks perfect. Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4ony2r0QFs

But then someone decided to change it to look like this, which is ridiculous:
http://i.imgur.com/VUNbbIO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2rcxt9k.jpg
 
And i know more people who were not satisfied with over-saturated Witcher 2, then the people who were.

Anecdotal. All of my friends who played the game were entirely satisfied, but that's not really a point.

As for your later comparison, nothing about the Sunset has "changed" (No not even between the 35minute video and PAX), it's just the extreme variety The Witcher 3 has in terms of different lighting, sunsets, colours etc. Just like The Witcher 1, or apparently STALKER (I must not have played STALKER enough, or with the right mods), have both sides of the extreme, it's quite possible The Witcher 3 also does and I think the 4K screenshot in that cloudy weather goes a long way to prove this "possibility" as being highly likely.

And I'm not even going to bother with the "Disney" stuff again.
 
For me, I think the opposite. I feel like the more recent footage is more realistic and provides a more interesting backdrop to watch change. Who knows? Maybe due to your decision making and the dynamic quest structure you'll end up losing any pleasant weather and sink everything in snow or some greater extent of No Man's Land could become even more war torn and desolate, meaning everything looks even more grim and worthless. I think the contrasts and juxtapositions are important in a world like this and having the same dulled tone won't be as expressive or valuable as a method of storytelling if it is the entire 100 - 200 hour experience.

I think my major point is a grey world for 100h + hours would be a bit meh, especially since there are loads of other games going for the moody grey vibe for the entire experience. I think a varied world with a varied realistic palette is more interesting, especially with the dynamics of world influence the player has.

(also let us take a moment to reflect on the idea of disney making a witcher adaptation. WHO'S GOT DISNEYLAND COLOURS NOW?!)

If you go back a page in this topic you will see this post http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/34169-True-Grit-or-Disneyland?p=1587425&viewfull=1#post1587425 by me that disproof that the older material was all gray. There are many more post like that in this thread and the downgrade threads. The older material was just as varied, sunny and bright as the new material and it had plenty of colors too. The difference is that those colors weren't as saturated as those you find in the newer material. In other words they felt more realistic and atmospheric to many people.

That is not to say I am right, you are wrong. It is all very subjective of course what you like and what you don't like and I am well aware that many like the newer materiel above the older for many reasons that ranged from it fits their perception of the Witcher world better, some don't want to much realism, others the older material was simply to grim and so on.

To me some of the deep and dense atmosphere is just lost when I watch the newer stuff. That's how I feel, that how others feel.
 
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The older material was just as varied, sunny and bright as the new material and it had plenty of colors too. The difference is that those colors weren't as saturated as those you find in the newer material. In other words they felt more realistic and atmospheric to many people.

The older footage looked desaturated, or in layman terms, 'greyer' -- which is actually what happens when you desaturate colour schemes. This lighting is only seen in early morning sunlight or overcast days. To me, as an artist and somewhat studied in the realm of colour theory and the science of lighting, displaying this kind of lighting/colour palette all the time is unrealistic. I do not say you are wrong -- you are right in saying it may be more atmospheric to others and that they may prefer this as their own reflection of what the world would be like, but it makes me cringe to see people say it is 'more realsitic'. It isn't. Perhaps more immersive. Perhaps appeals to a certain vision. But not realism. For that, it would have to actually resemble reality and using the world 'realism' infers a high degree of objectivity.

Anyway, if I'm twitching at semantics and we've all agreed the previous footage appealed more to some people than to others and that we all have our own tastes, then really I'm not sure how much further this thread will keep going.
 
Anecdotal. All of my friends who played the game were entirely satisfied, but that's not really a point.

As for your later comparison, nothing about the Sunset has "changed" (No not even between the 35minute video and PAX), it's just the extreme variety The Witcher 3 has in terms of different lighting, sunsets, colours etc. Just like The Witcher 1, or apparently STALKER (I must not have played STALKER enough, or with the right mods), have both sides of the extreme, it's quite possible The Witcher 3 also does and I think the 4K screenshot in that cloudy weather goes a long way to prove this "possibility" as being highly likely.

And I'm not even going to bother with the "Disney" stuff again.

Entirely satisfied with Witcher 2!? No comment!

Actually 35min. video looks completely different then the last one. In the 35min. video sunset looks perfect.
It looks like this, which is how it should look:
http://i.imgur.com/1rfYmCx.jpg

For comparison here is my lighting/texture mod for Stalker CoP, which i did in 2010. Sunset is practically the same:
http://forum.benchmark.rs/attachment.php?attachmentid=63426&d=1282824517

And there's nothing like this - http://i.imgur.com/VUNbbIO.jpg - in Stalker. Only objects/textures that are naturally reddish can look like this during sunset, but not all objects are reddish. Grass in Stalker never looks like this.
 
http://i.imgur.com/1rfYmCx.jpg

That's from the VGX Trailer, lighting has changed since then. Not to mention the 35 minute demo has sequences at Noon, Dawn and Night, so there's really no part of that Demo to compare PAX with, as there is no Sunset. (If you think the Swamp sequence in the 35 minute demo looks similar to that screenshot, then it's possible that screenshot isn't actually Sunset anyway, but in-fact Sunrise, considering the Demo takes place at Dawn)

That said my point (Which I think you missed) is that there is going to be multiple different "forms" of Sunset/Sunrise. Chances are not every area, every sunset, is going to look like the PAX Sunset. From the footage we have, it's clear there's tons of variety in certain lighting conditions, and locations, cloud cover etc will also affect this. If you think the PAX Sunset looks "off", then that's totally cool, but the Sunset hasn't "changed", there's just going to be lots of variety and PAX is merely one example of many.
I am certain there will be a more "traditional" Sunset in the game, that looks more natural, it will just depend as described above.
 


i bet that dawn is red and rise orange/yellow no other colors, that dynamic weather excuses are silly, every state must be programmed or set in editor
 
These are all sunset photographs from the real world folks... There are red ones, as well as there are more "atmospheric" ones. It all depends on the density of the clouds, and the position of the Earth that you are at. There is no one "realistic" sunset. If you think that the world is "set" in one condition, and only that happens all the time, you guys need to go out and see some real-life lighting.

http://i.imgur.com/yP4xJ.png

A real-life building looking red in a certain kind of sunset, by the way. Sorry to burst the bubble of only red textures looking red in sunsets:

http://cdn.cambridgeincolour.com/images/tutorials/natlight_sunset-ex2.jpg
 
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