The Witcher 3 - Visuals

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i bet that dawn is red and rise orange/yellow no other colors, that dynamic weather excuses are silly, every state must be programmed or set in editor

Again, different locations and other variables could have an affect on it.

Take this comparison for example.

In the first you've got that Red Sunset we're talking about, however when viewed from a different angle, the grass/trees retain their green and overall the red doesn't seem to be having the same harsh effect on the image as it does in PAX.
In the second we see NML and probably very close the location where the (PAX) red sunset took place and yet it's a much more natural light. Later on when fighting the Royal Wyvern it gets a little more Yellow, but never goes red.
In the third we see Skellige, once again a similar time and it's different again.

Of course it isn't going to be realistically dynamic, but it will be dynamic to an extent which is evident enough from the footage. Variety is most certainly there.
 
@arkhenon

you know color of sun depends on climate so why do you post obviously edited photos from tropical islands? xD

Well, if you want to read an academic abstract about the subject, here is one my mate ;)

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071108135522.htm

I don't know about you but I see the "red sunset" in any clear day where I live. I actually hate it because the sun light goes directly into my room in the evenings, and that red color hurts one's eyes pretty bad :) Like you said, it depends on climate, so it's not hard to think that there will be different sunsets in the game if you are looking at them in Skellige, or No Man's Land. And also it depends on the amount of scattering the clouds will provide, so there is that as well. But if you want to think in a certain way, and not look into real-world examples, I really can't help you can I? :) If that's the case, there is no point of me continuing here I guess.
 
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Sunsets can be extremely red and yellow in colour. I took some snaps of a VERY vibrant sunset last year. It was quite surreal, actually.
 
This is a fantasy rpg that's being talked about. How can we say that the world is too "Disneyland"? All we have to base it on is the books and the previous games. Just because it looks different from what some of us have envisioned doesn't mean anything is wrong with it. It's not like we can physically go to Skellige, come back and tell CDPR that it's not as bright and vibrant in real life as it is in the game. I think the game looks fine and i'll continue to think that until I see a real griffin.
 
@OliverDK

The reality is that games look different in super carefully made trailers, than what they do in uncut gameplay vids and rushed trailers from old builds,and this will make it look very different no matter if nothing changed for real in the base game.

I'd love to notice what you think you can notice even though cant tell me what it is, maybe im blind.

My issue have always been "the feel" or atmosphere if you will have changed when I compare those three trailers against the newer material and not only the trailers but screenshots too. To me there simple was a "moodier", more mature, more realistic, deeper, denser, "dirtier", believable and so on atmosphere/feel in the earlier materiel compared to the new.

See this is what I dont get, why do you group extremely different material as the "old", and then very conveniently all the gameplay videos and the rushed EB trailer as "new". If we speak precisely and accurately, there's been a change from Debut, to VGX, to SOD, and each time it brought the game more and more in line to what we see today, both in graphics and art direction, SOD being almost identical in terms of atmosphere and feel to newer material, though not in technical quality and means of representation. So what is your favorite piece of footage from all time of TW3? I suspect its VGX personally because it combines the dark feel of debut but with better graphics to show it, but please tell me.

So what changed? Honestly I cannot say in total but as far as I have pinned it down to it has to do with a change in color palette; the colors seem brighter or more saturated in the newer material if you will. Then there's a change in the art direction to some extent and finally to some degree lighting. There's probably other things like a sharpening filter

I see color and saturation identical from SOD to all new material, the art direction is the same as well, lightning seems identical too but im not THAT sure, sharpening wasnt in SOD.

In my opinion you are just simply noticing the subtle difference between the type of footage, not different versions of the game, the game is the same, but like I said, one thing is to see it in a perfectly cherry-picked group of scenes in a trailer, with probably better graphic settings to help also, and another thing is to see the exact same game in an honest and straightforward gameplay demo, all with the gameplay camera, full screen with no black bars, and so on. Elder Blood was clearly rushed and certainly not calibrated more than 50 times like SOD, so it all points to the type of footage to me, especially because again, its very convenient that the footage of TW3 you like also happens to be the footage with the best graphics, and the most carefully prepared one.

Anyway whatever the reason is it's really not that irrelevant, what is, is the fact that others have felt it too because it was with materiel released after SOD that this whole issue "blew up" with downgrade talks, change in atmosphere and whatnot. It simple wasn't there before then IIRC

People started to complain about the graphics, and so they made a sport out of hating almost every single thing in the game after SOD, and the atmosphere is just another one of the bunch. To this day we dont have a single comparable modern footage to SOD thats acceptable and fair to include, so im inclined to believe that you simply felt something is lost because of specific scenes that werent in gameplay vids and elder blood, and not because of an actual change of art direction.

You say that others have felt it too, yet after reading most posts that deal with this subject, almost every single comparison I've ever read about the game's atmosphere and feel, have used Debut and VGX vs SOD and newer material's looks as an argument, not the first 3 trailers vs everything else. Only the people addressing the graphical downgrade have actually grouped SOD as "early material" too because if just simply looks amazing, but in terms of art direction? feel? immersion? like I said, all people that spoke noticed something Debut and VGX supposedly have, that SOD and new material doesnt. In fact I cant even recall one comparison where in those terms, someone felt the artistic identity of the game changed from SOD to newer material, just yours. Debut and VGX look different? sure, the renderer, the lightning, the sharpenning filter, the colours, less scenes and shorter ones, etc. all of that is easily noticeable, but SOD has all of that in line with the newest videos.

I think when the next SOD-like trailer comes, if it has SOD's graphics, you're going to be very pleased, as art direction remains equal, its just that a well prepared trailer can do wonders to show a game differently than other types of footage, even when the game is the same.
I want to learn what you think you're seeing different, and if you cant tell then help you realize what it is, but so far, it all points to "awesome marketing centered trailers" vs "let's just show the game a bit", being the real difference.
 
That pic from the VGX trailer..I really think it looks about the same as the e3 footage. Its just that the camera is lower and there is a DoF effect that makes it look "better"
 
I think my English is good, but some people still don't understand what i'm talking about.
Sunset sometimes can have more reddish colors, but foliage cannot be almost completely red or yellow like here:
http://i.imgur.com/VUNbbIO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2rcxt9k.jpg

Here problem isn't color of the sunset, but this foliage transparency effect which isn't implemented properly.
This is how it should look:
http://freebigpictures.com/wp-content/uploads/orange-sunset.jpg
http://images.forwallpaper.com/files/thumbs/preview/28/286393__sunset-sun-grass_p.jpg
Only parts of the grass or bush should be transparent.

These are all sunset photographs from the real world folks... There are red ones, as well as there are more "atmospheric" ones. It all depends on the density of the clouds, and the position of the Earth that you are at. There is no one "realistic" sunset. If you think that the world is "set" in one condition, and only that happens all the time, you guys need to go out and see some real-life lighting.

http://i.imgur.com/yP4xJ.png

A real-life building looking red in a certain kind of sunset, by the way. Sorry to burst the bubble of only red textures looking red in sunsets:

http://cdn.cambridgeincolour.com/images/tutorials/natlight_sunset-ex2.jpg

This building has brownish material, so it's normal that it looks like this in sunset.

Here are objects with different colors in sunset, second picture:

http://antoniovioli.com/2010/09/17/pentedattilo-abandoned-ghost-town-aspromonte-calabria-italy/
 
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@OliverDK

The reality is that games look different in super carefully made trailers, than what they do in uncut gameplay vids and rushed trailers from old builds,and this will make it look very different no matter if nothing changed for real in the base game.

I'd love to notice what you think you can notice even though cant tell me what it is, maybe im blind.



See this is what I dont get, why do you group extremely different material as the "old", and then very conveniently all the gameplay videos and the rushed EB trailer as "new". If we speak precisely and accurately, there's been a change from Debut, to VGX, to SOD, and each time it brought the game more and more in line to what we see today, both in graphics and art direction, SOD being almost identical in terms of atmosphere and feel to newer material, though not in technical quality and means of representation. So what is your favorite piece of footage from all time of TW3? I suspect its VGX personally because it combines the dark feel of debut but with better graphics to show it, but please tell me.



I see color and saturation identical from SOD to all new material, the art direction is the same as well, lightning seems identical too but im not THAT sure, sharpening wasnt in SOD.

In my opinion you are just simply noticing the subtle difference between the type of footage, not different versions of the game, the game is the same, but like I said, one thing is to see it in a perfectly cherry-picked group of scenes in a trailer, with probably better graphic settings to help also, and another thing is to see the exact same game in an honest and straightforward gameplay demo, all with the gameplay camera, full screen with no black bars, and so on. Elder Blood was clearly rushed and certainly not calibrated more than 50 times like SOD, so it all points to the type of footage to me, especially because again, its very convenient that the footage of TW3 you like also happens to be the footage with the best graphics, and the most carefully prepared one.



People started to complain about the graphics, and so they made a sport out of hating almost every single thing in the game after SOD, and the atmosphere is just another one of the bunch. To this day we dont have a single comparable modern footage to SOD thats acceptable and fair to include, so im inclined to believe that you simply felt something is lost because of specific scenes that werent in gameplay vids and elder blood, and not because of an actual change of art direction.

You say that others have felt it too, yet after reading most posts that deal with this subject, almost every single comparison I've ever read about the game's atmosphere and feel, have used Debut and VGX vs SOD and newer material's looks as an argument, not the first 3 trailers vs everything else. Only the people addressing the graphical downgrade have actually grouped SOD as "early material" too because if just simply looks amazing, but in terms of art direction? feel? immersion? like I said, all people that spoke noticed something Debut and VGX supposedly have, that SOD and new material doesnt. In fact I cant even recall one comparison where in those terms, someone felt the artistic identity of the game changed from SOD to newer material, just yours. Debut and VGX look different? sure, the renderer, the lightning, the sharpenning filter, the colours, less scenes and shorter ones, etc. all of that is easily noticeable, but SOD has all of that in line with the newest videos.

I think when the next SOD-like trailer comes, if it has SOD's graphics, you're going to be very pleased, as art direction remains equal, its just that a well prepared trailer can do wonders to show a game differently than other types of footage, even when the game is the same.
I want to learn what you think you're seeing different, and if you cant tell then help you realize what it is, but so far, it all points to "awesome marketing centered trailers" vs "let's just show the game a bit", being the real difference.

Let me just state I have made my peace with how the game looks now compared to the older materiel. You and I am sure others might take my critic as I am being overly negative or skeptical about the game but it is far from the true. I am still very excited and looking forward to the game just as much as anyone. I still applaud CDPR for their effort and hard work and I am sure I will still love and enjoy the game as much as anyone. The only real issue I have is this change I feel in atmosphere.

You ask for what it is that I can see that you can't in that regard and I have tried so many times to say that I cannot discus technical terms in graphic fidelity because I don't know what they are. I can only state what I feel.

But let me give you an analogy to maybe clear my point in that regard or confuse even more ;)

If I drove two cars where the one handled better than the other and then I had to tell you why that is which I couldn't because I have no concept of what made the one better than the other. So the only thing I could tell you is that one of them just felt better to drive compared to the other one. A expect could tell you what it is as he has a technical expertise in such matters and it is the same in regards to this issue. And that just the predicament I am lost in this regard; to me the newer materiel just don't have the same feel as the older stuff which felt better to me. It simply had a denser and deeper atmosphere to me.

But I am lost for words why it is. I can take a educated guess and mention as I have done before the same old color palette, art direction and lightning because that is what comes to my mind when I compared all the materiel but again I can't really put any specific words to it other than that.

You and others can of course assume whatever you want in that regard but it doesn't change what I see and feel when I watch the materiel accessible to us. But is it not subjectively? You bet it is and I have not been quite about the particular fact that this was what I saw, what I felt and so on. I could of course have kept my mouth closed and just accept it like it is but I choose not to and instead spoke my mind about the issue because I felt a change.

And believe me I am not one of those that just want to be all negative and shot a shit storm just for the hell of it. As mentioned I don't participate in the overly negative downgrade talks because I don't see a real downgrade per-say. In fact I see improvements in certain areas which I have pointed out in other threads, like for example the facial expression which I am hugely impressed by, then there's the living dynamic world which fascinates me, the wind effects which I find better than what I have seen in most other games, not to mention the attention to details in almost every scenery which strikes me every time because I see something new every time I re-watch the materiel and so on. But still the overall atmosphere is just not what it used to be to me.

So why do I count SOD among the old stuff then because as you rightly say there are differences between that and debut and VGX. Well because SOD still has some of the older materiel in it but I do agree that there are scenery in it I don't like which I actually have pointed out earlier (I think even in this thread) but agreeably not in specific terms. But from the top of my head I can mention the two griffin fighting scenes that I find too saturated.

And the reason I say others have felt it too is because I have followed and participated in the two downgrade threads, this thread, YouTube comments, Neogaf discussions, Reddit and so on and my take on it is that it was with materiel released after SOD that this talk about atmosphere and the downgrade shouts hit the fan. That's why I do the sharp cut in debut, VGX, SOD vs newer material.

But you are absolutely right in that the line is very blurred and as mentioned SOD has its questionable scenes but it just becomes very difficult to discuss if we have to go into specific scenes in each trailers and as mention the whole issues started with the materiel released after SOD. Although I am sure that there properly was rumbles in the corners with some of the materiel in SOD back at its release.

But as I started out I have made my peace with how it is. The only reason I got court up in this thread and discussion again was because of the argument that the older materiel was dark and gray which I deeply disagree with and I wanted to disprove. This is also why my answer to you is "short" :p as I could have gone more into depth with my take on the atmosphere that was lost which might have given you and others a deeper understanding of what I mean but honestly we have been around this subject so many many many times and it won't change a thing in the end.

Let us instead focus on the fact that the game is under six weeks away and for sure we will all sit clued to our screens for weeks or months to come after that.
 
@Ancient76

You are assuming the vegetation in the first picture is green normally? I'm guessing they are barley kind of (yellow/dark yellow) plants, therefore it makes total sense if they have a red hue in a red sunset. Also the real-life pictures (first two) that you posted are not red sunsets. The point I was trying to make is that sunsets in different places look differently. It is based on where you are on the planet vertically (sun's position at the sunset), the scattering density of the air (usually humidity, but other molecules help too), and the amount of clouds in the sky. Here is another link that explains the phenomenon: http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/light/Lesson-2/Blue-Skies-and-Red-Sunsets

Also you should realize that the first picture is from a later hour, so the sunset is more reddish; and the second one it is not that further away, so it casts a colour closer to yellow. It is perfectly natural for a yellow plant to look that way, if you cast a yellow light on it. I also think that it will look a little better with higher lighting/shadow settings; as I think the main problem there is that the plants are not casting shadows on themselves, not their colours.

Seriously, I'm watching that trailer in motion now, strictly looking at the colours that the sun is casting on the sky, and through the ground/foliage, and it looks really realistic to me. I seriously cannot see the problem. Of course I'm not expecting it to look like real-life. That would be an impossibility you know :) But as far as I am concerned, the lighting - even with these settings, as we know it is not the highest - is pretty realistic. Lucky me I guess, for not seeing the problem ;)
 
Nice Catch! I really like the atmosphere of this Witcher, It reminds me somehow to a Eastern Europe setting with those fields, etc... also I edited the link, I found the youtube version, and it is on High settings not Ultra

Salute!

Also, I want to say that, I have been fliying flight simulators for years, I am not a pilot, but the Sky that has achieved Witcher 3 really is like the ones I see on those sims that try to reflect the "real" sky, so this is like 10/10, the colors are top notch
 
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@OliverDK

Thanks for the long reply, dont worry I get that you arent determined to hate on the game's new or old looks or whatever.

The analogy is thankfully accurate to describe what I think is going on. In this case, both cars, while we cant argument precisely whats the thing that makes them feel different, have differences that are objective facts, if those cause what we perceive to be different about them is another story, but they do have things out of the subjective as well, so thats why I was focusing on that.

Of what we know for sure, SOD is made with a very special care, differently, its made out of varying footage from different builds through time, it shows different stuff in different ways, and it was made for different purposes, so thats why I suspect its either one of these or all of them, the causes for why it feels different than when you look at GDC or PAX or 35min, etc.
I naturally love SOD way more than more recent footage, but I just attribute that to those objective differences I was talking about. This is why in the two downgraded threads I kept mentioning to people that while its all good that you compare trailers to gameplay, and that some specific small things might look better, we always have to keep in mind we are comparing the "ideal TW3" vs "just some TW3 vid". I still think and believe that when we get a new trailer its going to be on par with SOD or better actually, since the game is more finished now.
There's a reason why CDPR called it "probably the best trailer the studio's ever made" or something like that, that means that when you compare it to other trailers it already should look, sound, and feel way better, so imagine how its supposed to make some primitive alpha uncut gameplay footage on high settings feel in comparison...

Supposedly we get new stuff tomorrow, and if its not a new trailer, the new trailer will likely come the week after this starting one with the gamespot previews, and I'm expecting my mind to be blown away. Trust me, it wont be anyway near what a raw gameplay vid is, its going to be incomparably better, and if the new trailer instead ends up like Elder Blood or whatever, I'll be the first coming to question a downgrade or change of art direction or both.
 
Moderator: Stop it now. We do not and will not countenance members disputing the qualifications of others to make, hold, and express their opinions, nor will we countenance members flaunting their own. You have had your say, do not take this argument further.
 
This building has brownish material, so it's normal that it looks like this in sunset.

This building is actually King's College Chapel, it is built from what looks suspiciously like Portland or Bath Stone, both a 'warm white' limestone. I am very familiar with this type of stone as the bulk of my city centre is built from it.

I can confirm that it will take on a variety of colours according to the weather, the time of day and the angle of the viewer. A deep red blush at sunset is not an everyday occurrence, but it does happen often enough to recognise it as a valid state for limestone under the appropriate lighting.

Because the eye accommodates really well to lighting conditions (note how little we are aware of the tungsten colour cast, which is obvious in photography on daylight film, or with an uncorrected whitebalance in digital photography), we may not be aware of it most of the time, but it is instructive to look at the shadow boundary under this lighting condition where the direct sunset lighting is deeply coloured and red, and the skylight on the shaded areas is muted and distinctly blue in comparison.
 
Early construction of King's College Chapel used magnesian limestone from Tadcaster, a distinctive stone which is little quarried now. York Minster is built from the same stone. Both buildings show the same tendency to dramatic interpretations of light.
 
This building is actually King's College Chapel, it is built from what looks suspiciously like Portland or Bath Stone, both a 'warm white' limestone. I am very familiar with this type of stone as the bulk of my city centre is built from it.

I can confirm that it will take on a variety of colours according to the weather, the time of day and the angle of the viewer. A deep red blush at sunset is not an everyday occurrence, but it does happen often enough to recognise it as a valid state for limestone under the appropriate lighting.

Because the eye accommodates really well to lighting conditions (note how little we are aware of the tungsten colour cast, which is obvious in photography on daylight film, or with an uncorrected whitebalance in digital photography), we may not be aware of it most of the time, but it is instructive to look at the shadow boundary under this lighting condition where the direct sunset lighting is deeply coloured and red, and the skylight on the shaded areas is muted and distinctly blue in comparison.



Here, i did this quickly in Photoshop. Grass doesn't have just one color, it blends good with the rest of the environment, it has a little bit of variety, it looks natural/realistic, and it still keeps this reddish sunset color:


And this is just simple Photoshop editing. In the engine this can be done to look much better.

But this looks horrible, and i have never saw anything like this in nature:
 
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