I just hope that delay does not mean another 2-3 months of silence, but we will actually see and learn something new in January.
I just hope that delay does not mean another 2-3 months of silence, but we will actually see and learn something new in January.
Arcanum: Of steamworks and magick obscura comes to mind.
GTA 4 had one(!) decision which only slightly changed the last mission and a cutscene IIRC.
But yeah, I'm talking about the mix. Witcher 3 is said to combine all these elements and connecting them with each other. That's the lofty goal, the real ambition. Single elements and even some combinations have been done before and very well done. But all of them together? I can't think of any game...
I know. We just don't know how it will turn out in the ned yet. But I only mentioned Watch_Dogs here because somebody said Ubisoft should learn from CDPR that delays were a good idea. It's not like they hadn't done so themselves before, that's all.
I've been a long while away from the forums to run away from spoilers or news. I knew when i saw the Witcher 3 announcement teaser trailer and an interview with a developer that they did take a big step forward, maybe too big, so big that they would skip a step in stairs. Reach for the step above it, slip and come tumbling down.
But now i do believe that the Reds have their eyes open and they took that little step back so they can walk the stairs up to the red carpet without tumbling.
Take your time. I don't care when it is released, heck i don't even know when i'm even going to be able to play it, being a busy farmer and a student i am. But when i can get my hands on that collectors edition and the game itself i know it will be legendary and worth the wait.
But now i do believe that the Reds have their eyes open and they took that little step back so they can walk the stairs up to the red carpet without tumbling.
Take your time. I don't care when it is released, heck i don't even know when i'm even going to be able to play it, being a busy farmer and a student i am. But when i can get my hands on that collectors edition and the game itself i know it will be legendary and worth the wait.
That's way too old to properly compare if you ask me. Isometric 2.5D perspective and tech from 15 years ago with modern tech and full 3D sight is already quite a big difference. Arcanum's world also was never meant to be immersive or lifelike, at least not from a technologial perspective (it maybe even wasn't possible back then).
I love these RPGs of old and their complexity but I just have a hard time to compare them to modern games like Witcher...
That's not a mistake. Or at least, it might not be, going larger might actually be a wonderful thing for CDPR. We'll have to wait and see in the coming years if that's true or not.
If The Witcher 2 wasn't AAA, i don't know what is
I personally don't think so. It wasn't marketed like one, it didn't have the production values of one, it didn't have the development team size of one ETC. It was graphically gorgeous and put countless games with much larger budgets to absolute shame, but I don't feel that makes it AAA. However what makes something "AAA" is somewhat open to interpretation, so I'm not going to say you're wrong.
I am obviously the minority opinion here.
May 2015 would make it 4 YEARS since the second game was released.
I would be all to happy to play with the game in February, 2015, with or without the bugs.
And I doubt there would be too many game breaking bugs anyway.
Aspiring to be a perfectionist is one thing and it is a good thing; but polishing a product in near-perpetuity can be counter-productive - because you will NEVER be happy with the final product. Ask any artists and he will tell you he could have made his painting/drawing better; ask any writer and he will tell you same; ask any game developer and he will tell you same.
Additionally, if I am to take this argument to the extreme - nobody will judge your game if your game is never released; nobody will judge your book if it is never written; and nobody will judge your painting if it was never painted. If you think you cannot make a perfect game and you take the idea of perfection to heart, then do not make the game in the first place.
There will be patches and there will be bugs (albeit maybe there will be less things to fix on average after the numerous patches). The bigger game, the bigger patch.
If anything, I am sure they would delay the game even further but then that would mean they'd have to do a THIRD E3 and who wants to do that? I cannot recall of any Dev who does more than two E3s.
Anyways, I am here to sincerely express my disappointment in this decision. I know zilch about the current state of the game but I want to play it so damn bad that I would gladly play it in February.
May 2015 would make it 4 YEARS since the second game was released.
I would be all to happy to play with the game in February, 2015, with or without the bugs.
And I doubt there would be too many game breaking bugs anyway.
Aspiring to be a perfectionist is one thing and it is a good thing; but polishing a product in near-perpetuity can be counter-productive - because you will NEVER be happy with the final product. Ask any artists and he will tell you he could have made his painting/drawing better; ask any writer and he will tell you same; ask any game developer and he will tell you same.
Additionally, if I am to take this argument to the extreme - nobody will judge your game if your game is never released; nobody will judge your book if it is never written; and nobody will judge your painting if it was never painted. If you think you cannot make a perfect game and you take the idea of perfection to heart, then do not make the game in the first place.
There will be patches and there will be bugs (albeit maybe there will be less things to fix on average after the numerous patches). The bigger game, the bigger patch.
If anything, I am sure they would delay the game even further but then that would mean they'd have to do a THIRD E3 and who wants to do that? I cannot recall of any Dev who does more than two E3s.
Anyways, I am here to sincerely express my disappointment in this decision. I know zilch about the current state of the game but I want to play it so damn bad that I would gladly play it in February.
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@Vigilance Originally, "AAA" meant a game that scored an "A" in innovation, an "A" in critical success, and an "A" in financial success. Nowadays it tends to mean a "big production game," sort of like the video-game equivalent of a "blockbuster movie." I don't know whether I consider TW2 to be AAA but it certainly has AAA quality.
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I disagree. Let CDPR just do it. In the end we will have a better game.
You can't know exactly which problems they have (although I would really like to be told) and maybe they really need the 3 months.
Maybe they had some bigger problems and were working on it during the last months/weeks and now realize they do not have enough time to finish polishing.
Or it is the other way around.
I trust them to make the right decisions.
You can't know exactly which problems they have (although I would really like to be told) and maybe they really need the 3 months.
Maybe they had some bigger problems and were working on it during the last months/weeks and now realize they do not have enough time to finish polishing.
Or it is the other way around.
I trust them to make the right decisions.
I have mixed feelings about this.
The good is CDPR's courage to take potential flak at the moment, for the sake of closing gaps they recognize in order to deliver a finished and excellent product. They realize they're likely to be a bit ridiculed, knowing very well that they stated months ago that they're not newbies and that there won't be another delay, that they'll be called amateurs or unprofessional for their hasty statement about a February release and miscalculating, etc, etc. These things may be true, but I consider their ability to admit a shortcoming and try to fix it as commendable. This is impressive and shouldn't be taken for granted.
The bad is a combination of circumstances, that each one alone wouldn't have me worried too much, but put together make me uneasy about the game in a serious manner for the first time.
The past few months have been a bumpy ride. While the first delay was met with a sort-of knowing nod, this one, especially in light of the doubts that have been slowly surfacing in recent months from footage to footage that wasn't showing the improvement some hoped, and that have peaked lately, isn't as reassuring to me. It makes me wonder if there are some bigger issues at stake that an additional couple of months (not counting the last few weeks when the game is already Gold) will be enough to solve.
Being a bit more specific in the letter to the community may have helped alleviate some of these worries, but I feel that it's calculated and vague to a fault. It's not that if Marcin would have began elaborating about coding difficulties I would've grabbed a cup of tea and read through it carefully, understanding it all (or at all). But - and I'm sorry - considering the context, this open letter feels a tad too closed to me. Do the Reds need to reply to every possible concern the community has? No, of course not. But there are some situations that are exceptions. I think that an announcement about delaying the game that comes a few days - or even during - one of the forum's most tumultuous debates (certainly the "loudest" one I've witnessed during my relatively short time here), without even referring to it, at all, makes me feel odd. It makes the announcement seem too distanced and intentionally disconnected from what's going on. Maybe even evasive.
This is not to say I think the delay is related to the downgrade upheaval. But I think it's uncommon enough to warrant at least some reference - and in a bit more detail than general statements about there not being a downgrade. The timing of the delay's announcement may be just poorly unfortunate and parallel to the heated thread by coincidence. Or it my not be. I don't know, and without even mentioning it I find there's just more room for doubts to grow. I would be happy for some explanation about the differences seen that go beyond explaining it as a compression issue. I'm a simple guy. I see two images of the same game that look very different, and I wonder what's going on - even after the 3gb version of Elder Blood. I don't want to start analyzing it for pages and read different theories from different forum members with possible explanations as to why X isn't Y, because it feels like I'm convincing my eyes to see something that isn't there. It feels artificial. Forced.
Mind you, I'm not even in "the group", so to speak, that was distressed over the alleged downgrade. That's not to say I was completely unfazed by the discrepancy, and leaving it in the air like this only enlarges doubts that previously were fairly small.
Someone might come and say: "There's no winning with you. When there's cries of downgrade, you want a delay. When there's a delay to fix it, you're still upset". That partly true. Like I said at the beginning of my post - it's a mixed feeling. Positive and negative. The negative is enhanced by the timing of the announcement and its lack of clarification, that leaves small concerns untreated and encourage them to grow beyond what is possibly the true issue. I can't know. And, well, sometimes you push yourself to a corner. I fear that's what CDPR did.
I'm not demanding anything, because who the hell am I, right? It's a request of communication, one which I realize will likely stay unfulfilled because, like me, there are dozens and hundreds of others who request different things, and that due to this or that business consideration, communication can't be as open as I hope.
I'm not a religious guy. Faith isn't a concept that's natural to me, and CDPR have been a bit of an exception in this regard, but it's - sadly, for me, because it's been quite a fun and refreshing sensation - coming to a reluctant end. A track record of two games, which were made on different platforms, with much smaller scope than the monstrosity that is TW3, isn't enough to keep my trust unshakable no matter what. It's shaken right now, and though previously my default line of thought was TW3 will be a magnificent game-changer, in all of its categories, like CDPR marketed it, now it's changed to This game might be great. I don't know. I'm waiting to see.
CDPR had free credit from me in matters of trust for a long time. But right now I feel that the burden of proof, that is theirs, has been neglected for quite a while, and I'm not too convinced anymore. From extremely repetitive interviews to questionable material in terms of graphics (which they themselves have declared as genre-defining), concerns about handholding and attempts to appease everyone, and more, I'm left with too many small queries have been piling together and reaching their peak with this. I'm asked to trust without giving enough reason to. A request isn't enough anymore.
What does my decreasing trust effectively mean? Not much, honestly. CDPR remain my favorite company and TW3 remains my most anticipated game. I still have it pre-ordered (the only time I've ever done that). But I've too many doubts at the moment to keep me convinced that this game is necessarily, let alone significantly, above all others. I hope I'll be proven wrong, of course. If in five months (considering it won't be delayed again) you guys will be able to quote this post of mine and show me how much of a fool I was, I'll be thrilled and happily take the jab. That's the fun scenario I'm crossing fingers for.
Edit: I just wanted to add that despite all my talk about wanting to be convinced again and reassured that the game is still great, I don't want even one needless second to be taken away from the actual development. Not for "my" sake. If it's between receiving a constant and quality stream of material during these upcoming months, at the price of an even slightly less stellar game, then I prefer being in pitch blackness this half year and receiving something spectacular come May. I want to be convinced again, but my impression up until the game release isn't truly what matters. Still, there is a marketing department, so I hope they'll find a way of showing us the game's progress without interrupting the development.
The good is CDPR's courage to take potential flak at the moment, for the sake of closing gaps they recognize in order to deliver a finished and excellent product. They realize they're likely to be a bit ridiculed, knowing very well that they stated months ago that they're not newbies and that there won't be another delay, that they'll be called amateurs or unprofessional for their hasty statement about a February release and miscalculating, etc, etc. These things may be true, but I consider their ability to admit a shortcoming and try to fix it as commendable. This is impressive and shouldn't be taken for granted.
The bad is a combination of circumstances, that each one alone wouldn't have me worried too much, but put together make me uneasy about the game in a serious manner for the first time.
The past few months have been a bumpy ride. While the first delay was met with a sort-of knowing nod, this one, especially in light of the doubts that have been slowly surfacing in recent months from footage to footage that wasn't showing the improvement some hoped, and that have peaked lately, isn't as reassuring to me. It makes me wonder if there are some bigger issues at stake that an additional couple of months (not counting the last few weeks when the game is already Gold) will be enough to solve.
Being a bit more specific in the letter to the community may have helped alleviate some of these worries, but I feel that it's calculated and vague to a fault. It's not that if Marcin would have began elaborating about coding difficulties I would've grabbed a cup of tea and read through it carefully, understanding it all (or at all). But - and I'm sorry - considering the context, this open letter feels a tad too closed to me. Do the Reds need to reply to every possible concern the community has? No, of course not. But there are some situations that are exceptions. I think that an announcement about delaying the game that comes a few days - or even during - one of the forum's most tumultuous debates (certainly the "loudest" one I've witnessed during my relatively short time here), without even referring to it, at all, makes me feel odd. It makes the announcement seem too distanced and intentionally disconnected from what's going on. Maybe even evasive.
This is not to say I think the delay is related to the downgrade upheaval. But I think it's uncommon enough to warrant at least some reference - and in a bit more detail than general statements about there not being a downgrade. The timing of the delay's announcement may be just poorly unfortunate and parallel to the heated thread by coincidence. Or it my not be. I don't know, and without even mentioning it I find there's just more room for doubts to grow. I would be happy for some explanation about the differences seen that go beyond explaining it as a compression issue. I'm a simple guy. I see two images of the same game that look very different, and I wonder what's going on - even after the 3gb version of Elder Blood. I don't want to start analyzing it for pages and read different theories from different forum members with possible explanations as to why X isn't Y, because it feels like I'm convincing my eyes to see something that isn't there. It feels artificial. Forced.
Mind you, I'm not even in "the group", so to speak, that was distressed over the alleged downgrade. That's not to say I was completely unfazed by the discrepancy, and leaving it in the air like this only enlarges doubts that previously were fairly small.
Someone might come and say: "There's no winning with you. When there's cries of downgrade, you want a delay. When there's a delay to fix it, you're still upset". That partly true. Like I said at the beginning of my post - it's a mixed feeling. Positive and negative. The negative is enhanced by the timing of the announcement and its lack of clarification, that leaves small concerns untreated and encourage them to grow beyond what is possibly the true issue. I can't know. And, well, sometimes you push yourself to a corner. I fear that's what CDPR did.
I'm not demanding anything, because who the hell am I, right? It's a request of communication, one which I realize will likely stay unfulfilled because, like me, there are dozens and hundreds of others who request different things, and that due to this or that business consideration, communication can't be as open as I hope.
I'm not a religious guy. Faith isn't a concept that's natural to me, and CDPR have been a bit of an exception in this regard, but it's - sadly, for me, because it's been quite a fun and refreshing sensation - coming to a reluctant end. A track record of two games, which were made on different platforms, with much smaller scope than the monstrosity that is TW3, isn't enough to keep my trust unshakable no matter what. It's shaken right now, and though previously my default line of thought was TW3 will be a magnificent game-changer, in all of its categories, like CDPR marketed it, now it's changed to This game might be great. I don't know. I'm waiting to see.
CDPR had free credit from me in matters of trust for a long time. But right now I feel that the burden of proof, that is theirs, has been neglected for quite a while, and I'm not too convinced anymore. From extremely repetitive interviews to questionable material in terms of graphics (which they themselves have declared as genre-defining), concerns about handholding and attempts to appease everyone, and more, I'm left with too many small queries have been piling together and reaching their peak with this. I'm asked to trust without giving enough reason to. A request isn't enough anymore.
What does my decreasing trust effectively mean? Not much, honestly. CDPR remain my favorite company and TW3 remains my most anticipated game. I still have it pre-ordered (the only time I've ever done that). But I've too many doubts at the moment to keep me convinced that this game is necessarily, let alone significantly, above all others. I hope I'll be proven wrong, of course. If in five months (considering it won't be delayed again) you guys will be able to quote this post of mine and show me how much of a fool I was, I'll be thrilled and happily take the jab. That's the fun scenario I'm crossing fingers for.
Edit: I just wanted to add that despite all my talk about wanting to be convinced again and reassured that the game is still great, I don't want even one needless second to be taken away from the actual development. Not for "my" sake. If it's between receiving a constant and quality stream of material during these upcoming months, at the price of an even slightly less stellar game, then I prefer being in pitch blackness this half year and receiving something spectacular come May. I want to be convinced again, but my impression up until the game release isn't truly what matters. Still, there is a marketing department, so I hope they'll find a way of showing us the game's progress without interrupting the development.
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I didnt mean Larian as a whole, just the guy from the interview, he knows the things publishers or higher ups usually want to impose for the "mainstream audience" are things not only he doesnt like, but neither the target audience of Divinity Original Sin, thats why the interviewer also considers the practice so natural and obviously positive.
In Blacha's statement imo one can tell that if they sometimes dont do what they want, then there must be a very good reason for instead doing what others might want, and if its a good reason then its likely those players instead would've not liked what CDPR or Blacha had in mind, and so they are in a way forced to choose a side. CDPR have often followed their own style and choices much more delicately than other developers, otherwhise TW3 would just be 3rd person skyrim, so when an exception comes and they say hey lets actually listen to others this time, it must be a big deal.
Ahh of course, the danger is always there, but in this case I believe it is no greater than the danger that comes from following blindly your intuition and obscuring external feedback and expectations.
I totally agree with you that as the game gets bigger it gets harder to not be "corrupted" by popular demand and such things, but I think one should also look further into whats the core nature that drives developers to make the game that they want. An artist hardly always works just for him/herself, in fact, often, part of the main goals of a game, like for example staying true to your artistic freedom and vision, is also to communicate that expression to others, to allow them to get it and enjoy it. And this happens especially with The Witcher, which is not only a franchise brought to greatness by us, but also based on books that have many fans before the games, CDPR make "games being art that are the cooperative creative work of a bunch of passionate people", but those people are also some of the players, and how couldnt they be, CDPR employees are also players like us, we all have play a tiny part into making the witcher awesome, and I just liked what Blacha said because many im sure would ignore what players want and not care much, yet to create the experience you need both sides, the developer creating the "artifact", and the players using it correctly and offering their submission and feedback.
We both sort of agree on what we want, but we take the statement of Blacha as a sign of different things, I personally think he meant its definitely an exception worth letting us know that they are aware we exists too when making the game, and its not just them and what they want creating in a vacuum.
Thank you, eliharel. You have single-highhandedly won the forum.
Can't say that I'm surprised by this given the recent fiascos with AssCreed:Unity or the so called PC version of DragAge:Inquisition (GOTY 2014, what a fucking joke) which surely didn't go unnoticed in the CDPR headquarters as well. Then take into account the overwhelmingly negative reaction (to say the least) to the Elder Blood trailer which probably reached some kind of critical mass earlier today(?) and then eventually prompted the board members' decision to delay the release once more.
The timing couldn't be anymore perfect really.
And this possibly couldn't have been planned or at least considered well in advance given the energetic and passionate way Damien Monnier came across during the Video Game Awards. Or could it?
Doesn't matter, the delayed delay is real and I'm as well torn between applauding CDPR for this ballsy but ultimately right decision and now being even more concerned as to why this had to be done. And as usual we're are only given the vaguest of vague PR approved 'explanation' for what exactly made this second delay necessary. It's perfectly understandable that certain things can't be said to not rustle certain shareholders' or otherwise involved interest groups' jimmies but is it really already that much to ask if the delay was caused by the console ports not being as performant as hoped for?
If that's too much indeed then I don't want to know what other even more trivial things those contractually involved parties would get their knickers in a twist over in case they were disclosed.
Well, take your (additional) time then and use it well. Above all, make damn well sure that each platform, regardless of the technical differences, gets the build of the game it deserves and is capable to run as performant and smooth as possible. Even if that ends in one version of the game having more bells and whistles than the other one(s).
The timing couldn't be anymore perfect really.
And this possibly couldn't have been planned or at least considered well in advance given the energetic and passionate way Damien Monnier came across during the Video Game Awards. Or could it?
Doesn't matter, the delayed delay is real and I'm as well torn between applauding CDPR for this ballsy but ultimately right decision and now being even more concerned as to why this had to be done. And as usual we're are only given the vaguest of vague PR approved 'explanation' for what exactly made this second delay necessary. It's perfectly understandable that certain things can't be said to not rustle certain shareholders' or otherwise involved interest groups' jimmies but is it really already that much to ask if the delay was caused by the console ports not being as performant as hoped for?
If that's too much indeed then I don't want to know what other even more trivial things those contractually involved parties would get their knickers in a twist over in case they were disclosed.
Well, take your (additional) time then and use it well. Above all, make damn well sure that each platform, regardless of the technical differences, gets the build of the game it deserves and is capable to run as performant and smooth as possible. Even if that ends in one version of the game having more bells and whistles than the other one(s).
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You could make the same argument for any game at any period of time now.
Because many games's release dates are close to each other because we have a lot more games nowadays than we did 10 years ago.
You hit the nail right on the head with this.
I have mixed feelings as well. As much as I appreciate a developer willing to delay their game to make it the best it can possibly be. It's the circumstances surrounding this delay and the timing that makes it strange. It feels too similar to the whole Watch_Dogs Fiasco(have a demo that didn't look as good as last years, delay the game, then a trailer pops up that looks worse than the both demos in the past, concerns and debates fly around saying that it's just the console version, then it turns out the worst fears turned out to be true and it looked that way on PC as well.)
Then again CDPR isn't Ubisoft, however these days I just can't trust game companies anymore with pre release information. I think all they would have to do to quell fans concerns is to release some screenshots or a video of them playing around in the latest build.
Instead of just an apology. How about some type of demo we can play around with in February, benchmark? I haven't been following the game like a crazy fanboy. I didn't even know the game was delayed already a few times, but then I read about the promise of no more delays on the February release announcement.
This game better make me have involuntary body orgasms when I play it on MAY 19th 2015!
This game better make me have involuntary body orgasms when I play it on MAY 19th 2015!
Man this silence....
EDIT: Wow !!! omg i reached 1000 posts !!! :victory:
EDIT: Wow !!! omg i reached 1000 posts !!! :victory:
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