Well, to be fair they are different kinds of games. I mean, it's not like you would try to compare GTA and CoD, right? Yes, you run around shooting people and driving things in both, but... And technically, any game in which you take on the role of a person would be a role-playing game; since, you know, you're playing the role of someone. So that includes pretty much every action and adventure game, as well as all shooters and 'RPGs'. When we call a game an RPG it generally indicates that, gameplay-wise, it has a stronger focus on character development; that there is some sort of abstracted skill tree, with some generic abilities to progress through; that there's a substantial amount of dialogue. Usually but not always this also means a generic medieval fantasy heavily tolkein-inspired setting. Barring that it's in space, in what's usually a generic interstellar heavily star trek-inspired setting. Out of all the games I really, really love, most of them have RPG elements. Only Fallout and Planescape: Torment are what I suppose you could call 'pure' RPGs; but games like Deus Ex, System Shock 2, hell, even Star Control 2 had strong RPG elements. And for that matter, Europa Barbarorum (the Rome: Total War mod, if you weren't aware - it's basically made of win, for those who haven't played it) is more fun when you RP you faction's characters. Nobody would call Grim Fandango an RPG, though, despite how much win it is.When I'm talking about Oblivion, though, it's certainly not the plain out-of-the-box version. That, I will agree, was very obviously and detrimentally made for consoles. I have, at last count, 104 mods included added to my installation. Once you've redone the interface, fixed the leveling, fixed the scaling, diversified the landscapes, tweaked some global variables, reskinned most of the NPCs, added items, added characters, and upgraded the textures, it's a pretty solid game. Which is more or less exactly the problem: If it takes hundreds of hours of fans' time to bring up to a reasonable level... well... that there is a rather serious indictment of the original's merits. The one thing which I've always preferred about the Elder Scrolls games, though, is the skill system. That part where you get better at something by doing it. Always made a lot of sense to me. Most games have you work at everthing and magically pick something to improve every now and then. By now it's become the coconut effect, but I never cared for it.The Witcher is more of an old-school cRPG, in that it's very linear - and by that I mean you don't really get to pick what you do. I say old-school because back in the day (post text-based but pre-cd, for the most part) there simply wasn't the storage capacity to include more than the 'main' path through a game. There are really two kinds of linearity: being able to choose your task, and choose your methods. In TW most quests will establish that you need to bring about a certain action, but you're given a bit of room to bring it about. A few are real, meaningful choices between mutually exclusive outcomes - and the result stays with you for the entire game. That's something which is nearly non-existant in Oblivion. The other thing about it which sort of limits the scope (sort of - I'll get back to that) is that you play Geralt. Always. You can pick what kind of Geralt, but it's still Geralt. There's something to be said, I think, for playing a character who you've created - I find it allows a deeper feeling of immersion, myself, but that's just my preference. The advantage of a fixed character is that it allows a more plausible backstory (your character existed in the lore before you made them up), and can feel significantly more authentic, since the character in question will fit in with the world however the developers intended.And another thing. I see people complaining about the simplistic quests in Oblivion. That's sorta true, and some of them are virtually MMO-level insipidness. But it's not like there are lots of ways to do things in ANY RPG I've played. Basically every situation is only ever is resolved by going to a certain place and either killing something or picking a dialogue option. Maybe there's some running back and forth. Occasionally there's an item involved, which you acquire by either of the aforementioned, or possibly steal it. That's it. Every quest ever. If you have each quest be one each, they'll come off as shallow. If there are five or six parts, and maybe some longer dialogue trees, people pay less attention to the fact that they're still doing the same three things over and over again. So it's not that some of the quests in something like TW are really more in-depth, per se, but they are a broader mix-and-match of the basic elements.Another complaint about Oblivion is that the AI was pretty bad. It was, but at least they tried. Most games will only tell you that there's other stuff going on, or that NPCs have lives apart from you. Oblivion gets a bit of credit for trying to show you that there's other stuff going on and NPCs have lives of their own. They blew all that credit by overhyping it and having it be mediocre at best, but still...One thing I didn't care for in either game was the lack of a legitimate time-frame. You can get a quest which says meet so-and-so and such-and-such place tonight; if you wait a week before going they'll still be waiting for you. That was one of the cool things about Star Control 2 (man, that game rocked) was that if you didn't finish it fast enough (and you have 4 years, 5 if you complete a certain plotline; it takes two, maybe, to do everything) the Kohr-Ah would start killing off every living thing in the galaxy.Oh, and they both got f-cked by the ESRB. Any game which does that can't be all bad, right?Man, Star Control 2 was epic. It's almost older than I am.Oh, and Fallout is now free on GameTap. Which is great, since I lost my disc a long, long, time ago.
geesh.... reading some of these posts, I felt like I was on the official Oblivion boards the first few months after it was released. Or even recently, *sigh* It seems pointless to truly compare the two games, other than to say they are both RPGs of one stripe or another. Oblivion was flawed, but still fun and the modding community for that game (and for Morrowind) is pretty effing amazing. I still play Oblivion regularly(ish), although heavily modded - it is true I wouldn't be playing it if all I had was the vanilla options. Bethesda does a great job with open-ended rpg games, and they get a lot of "support" for the PC versions from their modding communities. I will say, when I started playing the Witcher around Xmas of last year, I strongly recommended it to several people on the Beth general forums - and it was because, especially that first play-through of The Witcher, I found myself completely engrossed in the story, in the action, in the scenery etc - and I had not felt quite that degree of being completely sucked into a game since the early days of playing Morrowind. In a way, I'd almost compare Witcher favoriably to MW, just for the feeling of depth, the detailed world, back story, etc. That's my .02
Freedom of movement - clearly movement is better in Oblivion. One said that he can't go to morrowind. Why I can't jump through 50 cm fence or bushes? As for the quests - yeah, it's find/get/destroy. Like in The Witcher. The difference is, that in Oblivion, I can kill in any way I want - spells, arrows, sword, maybe poison. In Witcher I can only use sword and some signs. Spells are ONLY SLIGHTLY better in Oblivion? That seriously made me laugh. You've got EVERYTHING. Fireballs, electricity(Emperor Palpatine), iceballs, paralysis, drain life, drain mana, empower, heal... In Witcher you have 5 spells altogether. Quests for Dark Brotherhood are just "kill 'em all"? Tell me, where in The witcher I can persuade the targets to kill THEMSELVES? My hero is anonymous. Yes. This suits me. I can make him look just the way I like it. Spellmaking, water walking, etc just gimmicks? No, no way. At least I can go the way I like, not being stopped by 50cm wall. I agree, however, that taking away levitation + spears+some other stuff was a blow to me. I said that The Witcher has better storyline. And only storyline quests are better. Rest - standard stuff - find/obtain/kill. Better graphics in The Witcher? Failed to notice that. At least in Oblivion everyone looks differently. There is no situation like this in Witcher, that half of the citizens have the same face. It could be dealt with in Riddick. Riddick was 2005. Witcher is 2008. Oblivion pathetically easy?! Fight the Gamekeeper without completing two side quests with making those special arrows. I was level 200, crushing everything on my way and the Gamekeeper was really tough. In witcher i can also have lots of eqp and I can modify it. Partially true. I can only have swords and around 20 pieces of other weapons, which are piece of sh.. 3 suits of armor during 1 take? that makes me laugh. I could modify EVERYTHING in Oblivion, just the way I liked(drain life, shock dmg). This I can't do in Witcher. I can fight with my fists through entire game. One said - "Why can't I join Daedra?" Why can't I join Jacques de Aldesberg or Azar Javed. Freedom of choice is a fiction. Order/scoia/neutral - all go to the same point - kill Jacques. Like in Oblivion. You could be a murderer/knight/mage. Yet you had to finish the Daedra. Once again: Why cannot I join Jacques? What does a statue give? Nothing. It's just pleasant to look at. As for discovering new things - yeah. New equipment(escutcheon of Chorrol, Mundane ring). I have sth+sth. Can I get something better? New places. I cannot decide whether to kill the bandits of leave them be. - I cannot decide whether to join Salamandra or not.
First of all nobody claimed that the Witcher gives total freedom. That's why your complain about 50cm fence is *****. The argument was not that the Witcher has more freedom than Oblivion but that the Oblivion is far from the total freedom you claim it to be in comparison to the previous versions of the same series.To the complaint that the Witcher doesn't climb 50 cm fence... If your home is surrounded by 50 cm fence, will you try to jump over it every time you go home or go around and use a door?WarriorofSparta said:
So, looks like you agreed that the freedom in quests you stated in Oblivion being superior to the Witcher is total *****. That's all I wanted, thanks. The difference you mention is not relevant. Spells, swords and poison exist in both games. The witcher does not use a bow. So what? But the swordplay is much more advanced + finishing moves are incomparable to anything what oblivion can provide.
Slightly or not in the Witcher the spells are all very different from each other. And special effects in the Witcher for spells are executed better in general than in Oblivion. In the Oblivion potential variety is wider, no doubt. However, your arguments against the Witcher are inappropriate since you play a certain class of a character.
The point was that the quests for the Dark Brotherhood don't differ from other common "kill'em all" quests. You stated that they are something special.
Sure, the Witcher is bad in terms of reusing models. Graphics has nothing to do with it. Graphics is about quality of the final picture on the screen, not about the variety of the models present in the game. It's two absolutely different elements.
We are not talking about mod making. What stops you from making a mod for the Witcher, which will make you load every 30 sec because every monster will pound you around?
I personally think that inability to modify everything in the Witcher is a very good decision. It would have destroyed the game. I prefer to play an interesting game where you cannot modify everything than imbalanced boredom like Oblivion, in which you can modify everything.
I really want to fight with you in real life in the following setting: you'll fight with the fists and I'll take a sword.
Again, you are using fallacies. I said that restrictions are good and appropriate in the Witcher, where you stated that the Oblivion gives you "freedom". So, just admit firstly that restrictions are good and must be introduced and the second is that Oblivion is also quite restricted game that doesn't allow you to do what you want.
Again, it doesn't contribute to the quality of the game.
"Discovery" of the new equipment is not a real discovery it's a munchkin fest, which doesn't make games better. Quite opposite, it usually makes games dumb, turning the only goal of the game into the junkie style trash searching.Removed personal attacks. Do not attack other users if you disagree. Warning issued
Your argument has no sense at all. Witcher is a game. You go around some places and you need to follow a special route cuz you cannot take a shortcut. My argument was that in Oblivion I can take any route I like. In Witcher I am continuously blocked by random bushes or fences. I thought it was simple to understand.
I said you CANNOT POISON SOMEONE. Tell me, were you able to put poisonous food on a person's plate and hill him that way?Again, your argument is irrelevant. I'm not saying a single thing about swordplay. It's about freedom in killing.Matter of how spells are executed is a matter of taste.
I was a warrior in Oblivion. Every combat skill maxed. Yet I had maxed destruction.
No. There is one mission, to kill people in the house, which is rumored to have chest full of gold. You can persuade the guys to kill themselves. And kill 'em all in Oblivion is much more advanced because I can kill with anything, not just sword+ signs.
Gatekeeper was in Shivering Isles.
I'm talking about a certain option available in game.
I'm not admitting that restrictions are good. You said about lack of freedom in Oblivion. We have the same lack of "storyline" freedom in Witcher. I said that Oblivion offers you a free choice to complete a side quest(every game needs to have a storyline) Removed personal attacks and quotes of attacks. Do not respond to attacks by using attacks. Use the report function instead. Warning issued.
Not really.WarriorofSparta said:
Nope. you are mistaken.
And, let me see, the signs covered paralysis, protection, fire, ect.
That's an opinion, not a fact.
You're joking, right?
Oh, I've done that. Child's play compared to some battles in other games.
Both games have a toolset so there is nothing stopping you from modifying anything and everything.
Yes, im new here. Hello all!Let me make this short and sweet. I'm not sure why the comparison between Oblivion and this game is made. Clearly they're designed from a different point of view and play differently as such.Second. Oblivion is inferieur to Morrowind. Oblivion got butchered by the consolization of gaming. Yes it's a typical response but it does clarify certain problems with Oblivion which fans needed to correct or can't even correct.An obvious flaw was the levelling system and the item system in Oblivion, all based on levels. As such some bandit out there could wear a compleet set of elven armor making the upgrade feel totally useless. That and the fact that they levelled up with you, which makes levelling useless. Solved by fan mods luckily! Not so lucky for the console people Another miss was the lack of levitation, which imo increased the freedom you had in the game. Dungeons! Another miss here, there are literally 1000's of them! In Morrowind you had to look long and hard for a good dungeon with some good loot. Not here!Fast travel! Another miss, it completely takes away the exploration part of the game. All these things combined made Morrowind a more compelling experience. And i consider myself an authority ( ) with at least 200 Hours in Morrowind and it's expansions.Good day all!
Another miss was the lack of levitation, which imo increased the freedom you had in the game. Dungeons! Another miss here, there are literally 1000's of them! In Morrowind you had to look long and hard for a good dungeon with some good loot. Not here!Fast travel! Another miss, it completely takes away the exploration part of the game. All these things combined made Morrowind a more compelling experience. And i consider myself an authority ( ) with at least 200 Hours in Morrowind and it's expansions.Good day all!Oblivion is a "Sandbox RPG". Witcher is a linear story-driven RPG. I wouldn't really compare the two.If you love sandbox stuff, you'll be drawn to Oblivion. If it's not your cake, that doesn't necessarily mean you'll think the Witcher is awesome.However, I do think Oblivion is very over-rated, and The Witcher is extremely under-rated.The Witcher's storyline, world creation, characters, etc give it a depth that is very refreshing compared to many RPGs made in the last 5 years or so.
The differance between the two games is The Witcher is heavily story based, so it can't have too much room for players to just go anywhere. Oblivion has a very basic story with little depth, but you have the freedom to go anywhere at any time. If Oblivion had incorporated that freedom properly I think it would have been the better game. But seeing as how every landscape is dull grays, and very few characters have personality, you quickly get the sense that you've already been everywhere. The game just seems to take itself too seriously. You'll never find people offering to play a game with you, or talk to you like a friend would. All the same I did find Oblivion fun, but I couldn't become immersed in the world.The Witcher is the opposite in many ways, for good and bad. It's good because many of the characters have unique personalities. Thaler is nothing like Vincent, and neither is a bit like Shani. The world also seems to have more life. Aside from the clone NPC's it's easy for me to imagine the characters having their own lives, besides just giving me information. I never feel like Zoltan exists solely to play dice with Geralt.The storyline of The Witcher is it's biggest advantage over Oblivion, and it is also what makes the game more linear. The story in The Witcher is always urgent, and expanding. It pulls you in. This also means that your movement must be restricted though. People ask why you can't jump over a fence or a bush, and this is why. If you can hop over the fence then what is to stop you from leaving Vizima aside from a huge mountain? And what is to stop you from scaling that mountain with some rope? So you climb over the mountain and keep going and before you know it you've left the main quest far behind. As in Oblivion. The strong focus on a rich story forces you to stay in the area where the story is happening. I'm not saying making the world any bigger would have been bad, but you have to stay connected to the story to be involved in it. There are definitley ways to combine freedom with storyline, but finding the balance always means you have to give up a little more of one to have the other. Personally if The WItcher recieves a sequel I would like the world to be somewhat larger, but not to the point where it feels empty and devoid of a population like Oblivion can.
I don't agree that story makes a game restrictive. The two are not linked at all. Like i pointed out earlier. Morrowind had a lot of backstory by just providing books to read.There are ways to incorporate a lot of story elements into a sandbox game while still maintaining freedom of quest choice.It's not a restriction!
In some ways it is. Like in Oblivion, the actual oblivion gates were suppossed to threaten the world, but the only differance was there were some occassional demons. The gates really didn't impact anything aside from being a quest. Admittedly Morrowind has more story then Oblivion, but not to the degree The Witcher does. If you play any sandbox RPG the format is always you have the main quest, and you can ignore it for weeks of in game time to go do other things, and in most games there will be no reprecussions for this. It's like the story just stands still. In The Witcher this aspect is there as well, but the main quest does effect everything your able to do. If you don't do some side quests before you finish the chapter then you don't have the chance. By the end of the chapter the NPC that gave you the side quest might be dead, or the main quest will draw you to somewhere else.I do agree that books are a good way to give backstory to a game. There weren't many of these books in The Witcher, and I wish they had been more numerous. But a history book isn't a good substitute for actual dialogue among the characters. I find the books to be more along the lines of extra information you can learn, since it usually isn't anything important to finishing the game.My point is The Witcher could have been less restrictive, but I think the story would have had to been put on hold for you to go to differant places. I don't think this would have fit with the context of the game. The Salamndra are in possession of mutagens that are giving them progressivley more powerful beasts and humans. Unless the game reflected this while you were traveling somewhere then the main quest is just frozen basically until you come back. That's something I tolerate in sandbox RPG's, but I think it's a big immersion breaker.
Actually i found it horrible... It's not the greatest rpg ever made. Since it's so distinctly different from The Witcher, Kotor etcMy favourite rpg of all time is Kotor by far. But does that make it the best? No it doesn't. Statements such as it's 'the best' are relative at best.Oblivion was extremely hyped.But it was good in what it set out to do. Freeform rpg game with a lot of open-endedness.But that doesn't make it the best in what as an rpg as it seriously fails when it comes to story, combatsystem etc.In the end it comes down to what one personally looks for in an rpg. I like openendedness but i prefer a good story/setting and a lot of detail.WabeWalker said:
In fact, Oblivion's biggest issue for me, was that it was a serious step backwards in the genre. Having played Morrowind and Daggerfall specifically, it seemed like TES "Lite", where instead of progressing the series forward to new heights, the game lacked much of what the game over a decade (I think? Can't remember the date of Daggrefall) had. The best thing about oblivion is that there was the potential, and that the modding community has seized that potential and really transformed the game, so much so that it is almost unrecognisable. I agree with most of what people have said regarding oblivion. There are things about it that are good. But overall, for me, it was a dud on release.A lot of people on here are saying that the two are incomprable. That is not true; you can compare anything as long as there are points of similarity. We have been proving this for the past 11 pages! However, the exercise is laregly futile, except to solidify for me the aspects the make a truely great RPG. I have added several items to my ever growing concept design for "the Perfect RPG" look for it in shops in 100 years time!!!Darthvegeta800 said:
I played Morrorwind.I was thoroughly impressed with the size and free reign.Yet i never finished it. The story did not compel me and the setting never fascinated me either. Let alone did it come across as believable.I picked it up thrice afterwards but never got far.I can understand people liking it. But sandbox style games are only fun to a degree to me. Though i admit i do like A LOT of sidequests and a certain freedom to explore in an rpg. But in an rpg story and characterdevelopment (leveling) + equipment come first to me. But that's a personal preference.I adore Kotor/Fable style rpgs. But i also adore NWN-styled and Diablo-styled. The Morrowind series however never thrilled me.I'm looking forward to Dragon Age and Divinity 2 though. They may be a good mix of Kotor and exploration. Especially Divinity 2 if it keeps the large world typical of Divine Divinity.Hmm guess us Belgians made something decent besides beer and chocolate... Larian Studios lol.
1)Morrowind - I stopped playing Morrowind after char reached level 70+. Very boring. Haven't had any decent challenge since several levels ago. Non-existent story. Boring sidequests in which they don't affect anything of importance. Didn't play Oblivion anymore since it's more of the same boring thing.2)Neverwinter Nights - Played Neverwinter Nights 1 and the two expansions. Also boring. Quests in most chapters revolve around collecting 4 objects or objects for henchmen. Only memorable quest was the murder investigation but pales in comparison to the one in Witcher. The only intense battle I had was against the Lich in chapter 1 or 2. Now, contrast that to Andariel/Duriel/Mephisto/Diablo.3)Fallout 1 and 2 - Awesome classic role-playing games. No adrenaline rush in those games though.4)Diablo 2 - Unbeatable action-roll-playing and character development.5)Baldur's Gate 2 - Demi-Liches, Dragons, Beholders, Watcher's Keep, your own strongholds, several characters to experiment with. Still #1. Nuff said.6)Witcher - Awesome role-playing game. Many memorable characters. Some memorable battles. The motion-capture fighting styles are heads above Diablo 2's engine, even Diablo 3.
I recently got Gothic 3. I'm finding it far more enjoyable than Morrowind even with it's imperfections.But than i have a weakness for underdogs rpwise.
The games are both beautiful to look at, they're both a lot of fun -- and they're very different. I agree that Oblivion is somewhat lacking in story content - a charge I would not make about Morrowind, by the way -- but there are times when I want to play a great-looking game that's all smash and run and steal, geared more towards levelling up and becoming powerful and rich than towards unfolding a strong story line. Witcher requires patience, something I don't always have. It's been said that the houses and dungeons in Oblivion are all the same, but the same could be said about Witcher, too. All of the houses are identical; rich houses look one way, poor houses another. The crypts all looks the same. Heck, even most of the NPC's all look the same. And I do find Witcher restrictive at times. I wish there had been more new areas in Chapter Three, instead of just a smallish area of Vizima tacked onto the Chapter Two areas. And after my third run back and forth through the swamp to do the vaguely fedex quests involving the Loogers and Brickmakers, I need to get out of there and get back to the city for a change of pace. At least in Oblivion you can roam freely.Neither game is perfect. Both are great fun. I'll come back to both of them again and again.
Actually what is the opinion here on other Oblivion-alike games. And how they compare to either Witcher and Oblivion?Gothic 3, 2 Worlds, Mount and Blade etc...
I played Oblivion and at first i was blown away by the vast universe under your feet,open for exploration.But then it was another "invisibility spell",hitting my moronic opponent from the back and another citadel destroyed...The most boring game i have ever set my hands on...Ridiculous...The dialogues are so moronic that you instantly feel compelled to avoid them as much as possible.In fact these are the worst dialogues i have ever seen in a RPG(rpg wanna be more likely).The final boss was just ludicrous,you feel no emotions whatsoever, it is nothing like in Mass Effect and in my favorite game KOTOR 1...You are completely emotional in these games,neverwinter nights too...There were some good moments,but after i finished the game i am even sick of the memories...It sucked that bad.All that fantastic make up doesn't worth a damn thing.When i finished KOTOR 1 i felt this peculiar nostalgia and a slight depression.This game was that good.Neverwinter nights 2 was awesome.The Masquerade vampires was ten times more interesting then Oblivion and as for the Mass Effect i shouldn't even waste my words...These were the best experiences as far as the entertainment industry is concerned...Comparing Oblivion with the Witcher is stupidity.I am merely in the second chapter and the game has just absorbed me completely...Oblivion had such a shallow side quests,such boredom that you play the game with a newspaper in the other hand...It was such an easy game to end and the opponents were so helpless,that you want to kill your self...You could almost ass kick them with your bear hands...The Witcher is something exquisite.I prefer RPG with some company beside your character,but when something is as vivid as this,then i really don't mind...I really take this step by step,so that i can enjoy the game as much as possible...I really overdo the Knights of the Old republic,when i didn't left the PC and Mass Effect was no different...I love the game,but i am pissed that i cant beat that bounty hunter who appears when you kill a guard...I accidentally hit on of the guards and then i had to neutralize a few of them...That sucked.I ass kicked a Golem and i cant kill a ridiculous bounty hunter???Perhaps there is a way but i couldn't even hit him and i have perfected the combat system quite a bit...People,comparing that Madonna movie,Oblivion with a master piece like the Witcher,just makes you look ridiculous...It's like comparing your wife with which you've been in marriage for 15 years,with a 20 year old hot cheer leader babe...