The Witcher Online

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

You are discussing The Witcher as a MMO.

Let me repeat that again. I'm not talking about MMO. I'm talking about MMORPG. Is that more clear? If you fail to grasp the difference, read the thread above, it was explained with different examples.

Just as The Elder Scrolls Online is just a MMO

Yes, and I'm not talking about Elder Scrolls MMO. It's not an RPG.

So in other words you only want a MMO

Not sure how many times this needs to be repeated, but no, I don't want a Witcher MMO. Unless you are trolling, please pay attention to what others actually say.

 

[May17th]

MMO, MMORPG. It's the same to me as it is a matter if I believe that hundreds of players or even ten players would work for The Witcher.

I do not think it would work simply because there are too many things that make the game great that will not work with more than one player. That's what I'm trying to say, that the gameplay and story that make The Witcher great, without it. It's not The Witcher.

You do not have to repeat yourself, I see your point of view but I do not agree, so there is no need for accusing or asking me if I'm trolling, that's unnecessary.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

MMO, MMORPG. It's the same to me

When I'm talking about MMORPG I mean a multiplayer game which takes care of maintaining a roleplaying environment (same as let's say when you have a pen and paper RPG). Your examples like Elder Scrolls MMO don't do that, that's why they are MMOs, and not MMORPGs.

So having a Witcher MMO would be dull and not interesting at all indeed. But if you can roleplay in the Witcher world using pen and paper game, you can do it in on-line game as well. Just because it's on-line doesn't mean it's not possible.

 

[May17th]

Oh dear.

I think it goes without saying, that when someone mentions MMO here, they are talking about MMORPG because The Witcher is RPG.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Oh dear.

I think it goes without saying, that when someone mentions MMO here, they are talking about MMORPG because The Witcher is RPG.

Not necessarily. Others before you brought Elder Scrolls Online above, which is not an RPG in this sense. It's not an example to compare with.

If you personally think that only single player experience is interesting, it's your preference, but it has nothing to do with on-line or off-line nature of the game. It means you probably wouldn't be interested in pen and paper game with multiple people too. However many others find such games interesting, and there is nothing specific in the Witcher that makes it harder to play than other settings put in such game format.

 

[May17th]

there is nothing specific in the Witcher that makes it harder to play than other settings put in such game format.

There are several things from The Witcher that will not work in massive multiplayer online role playing game:
Less fluid combat as everything must go through a server that also creates latency.

No changing time of day through meditate.
No slow motion effect when you fight on horseback, throw bombs, use crossbow or just in general combat.
No choices that change the world as no player would want to have their world changed by another player.
To see twenty Witchers around one location, waiting for monsters to spawn ruins the fantasy.
The more people in your world, the less unique are your decisions as developers can't create one unique experience for each player in the same world space. It's not going to work.

And there is so much more that makes The Witcher, THE Witcher. To create a MMORPG of this game is to mock, ruin what The Witcher is. A true RPG that has 100x more depth and quality just because it's a single player game.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Concerns about mechanics, day cycles and combat are funny if we are talking about an RPG. Who cares how horse riding will work. That's not what makes it or breaks a roleplaying game. Did you ever play a text RPG like a MUD? It just says "you are riding a horse". Or "the sun is setting and it's getting dark". Good enough, the rest is up to your imagination. And roleplaying doesn't require you to play witchers only. It's boring to play the same type of character all the time.

Story in such games is not created by developers alone. Developers only provide the framework. The story is created by players and game masters, which are free to make it as they want (within that framework).

 

[May17th]

I'm replying to the original post content:

I was, and still am very exited for the Witcher 3: Wild Hunt and as the developers introduced me to all the features like the massive open world, horses and the way the story works - it sounded a lot like an MMO.

This got me thinking - it would make sense to make an MMO sequel OR a prequel after the trilogy ended. All players could start off at Kaer Morhen when it was in it's fullest glory. (If it was a prequel)

I obviously dont know much about game developing but i think it would work. There wouldnt be much "Oh youre the special one!" when theres a 1000 clones of your character around you. All Witchers started out equal and i think the Witcher universe would be a very good theme for an MMO.

This is my two cents and I hope it could become real one day

If you want to discuss a game that says "you are riding a horse" in text and that is good enough for you.
I have nothing to say to that.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

I'm replying to the original post content:

If you want to discuss a game that says "you are riding a horse" in text and that is good enough for you.
I have nothing to say to that.

Not much worse than a pen and paper game where those words are said by DM (or your fellow player). There are some good MUDs which are true roleplaying games. So nothing prevents one from making it in 3D graphics as well. The format matters less than the essence of the roleplaying.

I hope this makes it clear for you what I'm talking about - a roleplaying game. Not a mindless hack-n-slash for grinding and eye candy only.

 

[bushivlad]

I think if done well is a good idea to create The Witcher Online.
Imagine several Witcher around the world join together to make the ass monsters,, different schools witcher and so on ... looks pretty nice ...

 

[Domhnallaich]

I think if done well is a good idea to create The Witcher Online.
Imagine several Witcher around the world join together to make the ass monsters,, different schools witcher and so on ... looks pretty nice ...

I cannot think of a better way, to ruin this game, than to turn this into an MMO.

 

[bushivlad]

I do not think so, and the game as it is beautiful ... and no one takes it. However, as future evolution, the fact to have different Witcher from different schools around the world that deal with the adventures and join forces, as in reality the world of Witcher happens. What's wrong?

 

[Domhnallaich]

I have already expressed my views in this thread several months ago, I CBA going over it all again. In brief, the cost and effort required to develop and run an MMO is not worth it as they are not as immersive as well made single player games. Sacrifices have to be made for balance and other things and they are very often not as good as their single player counterparts.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

I have already expressed my views in this thread several months ago, I CBA going over it all again. In brief, the cost and effort required to develop and run an MMO is not worth it

There are free on-line RPGs which are developed by volunteers, and they are pretty interesting. it's not about costs, but about vision and their approach to such kind of games.

 

[Domhnallaich]

There are free on-line RPGs which are developed by volunteers, and they are pretty interesting. it's not about costs, but about vision and their approach to such kind of games.

Maybe for volunteers but a company that has investors and shareholders will have to turn a profit. Sometimes the worst decisions are made due to shareholders wanting short term profits but MMOs require long term investment. But beside that, not every game in this genre needs to go down that road but many feel the need. It's not De Facto for these type of games. Lets just leave The Witcher well alone, an MMO version is sorely not needed.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

The Witcher well alone,

I didn't really see a clear explanation why Witcher settings is any harder to use in a multiplayer RPG than any other. I.e. why "leave Witcher alone" but not leave alone some other fictional universe? Just because some fail to make proper on-line RPGs because short term profit urge corrupts the whole effort doesn't mean it's not possible.

 

[Domhnallaich]

I didn't really see a clear explanation why Witcher settings is any harder to use in a multiplayer RPG than any other

It's not harder, I do not think I said it was harder. I think the MMO market in general is harder to crack, many people will expect WoW subscription numbers and deem the game a failure if it does not meet that bar. I do not believe there is much appetite in the MMO market in general anyway. However, that is not the reason I don't wan't this game to turn into an MMO. to quote @gregski

There are lots of MMORPGs out there dedicated to online play. Why can't we have something dedicated to the well written, hand crafted and intimate single player experience as well?

That is pretty much how I feel. But also, just because The Witcher is doing well and is set in a fantasy Universe does not mean the road it travels on, due to it's success, should automatically lead to an online version. As if this will be the crowning achievement of the series and, grant it some kind of permanence in the gaming world. It simply does not require this to be successful.

You could look at it from another angle though, as @Kinley put it very well I think:

CDPR would have to sacrifice many of their values in order to make a Witcher MMO work. While I enjoy MMOs quite a lot, for me this is a big no no.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

It's not harder, I do not think I said it was harder. I think the MMO market in general is harder to crack, many people will expect WoW subscription numbers and deem the game a failure if it does not meet that bar.

But who cares what WoW people would think? If the game is intended for another audience, that audience will come, and WoW audience will skip it. As I said, it shouldn't be about numbers, but about what authors envision for such game.

---------- Updated at 02:57 PM ----------

CDPR would have to sacrifice many of their values in order to make a Witcher MMO work. While I enjoy MMOs quite a lot, for me this is a big no no.

That's based on invalid assumption that any on-line game must be an MMO (without RPG). But who said Witcher game must be such an MMO? Make something different and better. Note the title - Witcher on-line, and not a Witcher MMO. On-line RPGs can be implemented properly, as I said bland mass market MMOs should not be used as an example of how to make them.

 

[Domhnallaich]

But who cares what WoW people would think? If the game is intended for another audience, that audience will come, and WoW audience will skip it. As I said, it shouldn't be about numbers, but about what authors envision for such game.

You should care because this is the attitude of the online community. There are MMO players who are always looking for the next big MMO to replace there old vanilla experiences of WoW or whatever they have fond memories of, so it will be judged in this manner by a section of the online community. Also, an always online game costs more money to develop and maintain and if they don't get the numbers, they don't get the money, it may fail so, it's not just about the authors vision for the game. I have no doubt CDPR would do an outstanding job of an Online version of The Witcher but the MMO/Online space is a funny place. I take on-board that you are catering for a different audience but I do not think think the majority of this audience wants an online version of The Witcher so I do not believe the numbers are even there to begin with.

That's based on invalid assumption that any on-line game must be an MMO (without RPG). But who said Witcher game must be such an MMO? Make something different and better. Note the title - Witcher on-line, and not a Witcher MMO. On-line RPGs can be implemented properly, as I said bland mass market MMOs should not be used as an example of how to make them.

I think it has more to do with their stance on DRM. How can you have a DRM free game which requires to be always online? Besides, in my experience, online games never capture the same depth and intrigue as their single players equivalents do....ever.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

You should care because this is the attitude of the online community.

On-line community is a very diverse term which means everyone. You can't make a game for everyone (at least not in one combined experience) - someone won't be happy with it. So whom should it be addressed to? Some like hack-n-slash and crowds of people bashing each other in constant PvP and OOC chaos. Others like roleplaying in interesting settings. Those two groups can't cooperate within one server because they have drastically incompatible interests. So whom exactly do you call an on-line community?

Some games address it by targeting a specific group. I.e. some target only hack-n-slash (WoW), others target roleplayers only (PlaneShift), yet others try to cater for all of them by providing a specific server for each group to ensure some sensible environment for each (Guild Wars 2). I'd say they do it relatively good and I don't see why Witcher specifically is so different in this regard.

---------- Updated at 03:39 PM ----------

I think it has more to do with their stance on DRM. How can you have a DRM free game which requires to be always online?

Being on-line has nothing to do with DRM. I explained what I mean above. MMO means no roleplaying but simply on-line multiplayer with OOC behavior. On-line RPG means roleplaying game with rules which players are expected to follow, and a framework to ensure that environment is preserved (for instance active GMs and so on). All of these are on-line games, but they are different in practice.

---------- Updated at 03:45 PM ----------

Take for example this game in development: http://pantheonmmo.com/
They say a very sensible thing:

We are definitely fans of alternate ruleset servers, be they PvP, role-playing focused, hard-core focused, etc. That said, our ability to offer alternate ruleset servers will depend, at least at launch, on how many servers we need and can support in total.