The Yennefer/Triss choice in TW3

[Crivilnite]

It´s not directly said it´s an Aphrodisiac. To me it seemed heavily implied though. The way I understood it was that whenever he smelled that perfume Geralt seemed to become docile and in love with Yennefer like a little puppy. I don´t think Geralt would react like that if it really is just a perfume...

I also doubt that Yennefer, who is naturally a hunchback and has modified her looks solely to gain adavantage over men, would wear a perfume just because she likes that smell. The way i see it everything about her appearance is calculated and serves a purpose.
Btw i am not saying that´s bad. It´s actually smart and makes me like her. Just not as much as I like Triss from Witcher 2.

She hides her natural looks to correct a disadvantage in a superficial world and to gain advantage over the men stupid enough to just pay too much attention to looks instead to what matters. And, btw, Yenn isn't a 10, she makes herself just above average, and even way not sexually impressive as many others sorceress, so she's not abusign at all of her powers, being able to.

Edit about your edited PS: The Djinn linked their fates, no their feelings. And even if you think Geralt asked for love, which is a nonsense, he would have asked for Yenn loving him, no the other way around.

 

[wichat]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHH! C'MOOON!

Sorry...

Anyone who read the novel knows that Geralt get impresed by th words of rh elf and once he sees her raging and fighting he falss in love wth her...

the Djinni? To me Geralt asked for his fate be to be what destiny wants! Their commom fate was to love each other and the Djinny make it true.

 

[Sephira]

About the Last Wish: it's not love! Djinn or genies in general cannot fulfill that kind of wish because it's unnatural and it will interfere with free will. Reading the short story, we can understand that Geralt's goal was to protect Yen from Djinn, but how? The most reliable hypothesis is that Geralt wanted to "bind their destinies", this way he would have prevented the Djinn from hurting Yen as any action against her would have fallen inevitably against him, and we know that the Djinn can not hurt those who express the wish, aka its master.

Also Geralt had already shown affection towards Yennefer, even before that wish.

This is a very old issue.

 

[Kallelinski]

Are you mean Triss who slept with her best friend man behind her back? Are you mean Triss who faild to help Ciri. Are you mean Triss who betrayed both Gerald and Yenn and Ciri? Are you mean Triss who frightened during Sodden Hill battle? Are you mean Triss who run away from secret lodge to look for her best friend only after she learned that she is dead? Are you mean Triss who was ashamed to confess that she was the last person who was speaking with Yenn in front of king of Skelige? Is this enough? I can continue...

Now I know all this isn't in the game. So yes, for those who didn't read the books and only played The Wither 2 Triss could be sweet and brave and it's dev mistake to portrate her in this way. The ONLY brave thing she has ever done in the books is saving Yenn in the town of Rivia during disorders. That's ALL. The damn one thing she has done. Well she actually helped Gerald to get to Brokilon but as I remember she failed to open portal and asked for this another sorcerers

I'm not saying that you can't chose her or that you shouldn't love her. But there is certain misunderstanding between her ingame image and books character. And it's dev fault. Not people who like Triss.

I agree mostly, even though i wouldn't write it as aggressive as you, at least not anymore, you will probably find 10 similar posts like yours by me in this thread

But it's quite funny that almost once a month somebody mentions this and the reactions are always the same

I think the lack of Yennefer in the games and the lack of book information (so far) is misleading most of the players. They just see the game-Triss (primarily from TW2) and judge her according to that game and solely based on this game, hence the "misunderstanding" between players and bookreaders, because the readers know "another" Triss and how she progressed through the books AND games.
IMO she was just naive, but she seems to grow up through the books/games. She has (or had) her faults, but everybody has them.

P.S.: The main reason that I think Geralt and Yennefer are in a way forced to love each other is still the Djinni. The perfume is just another aspect i personally believe somehow influences Geralt.

The Djinn isn't responsible for love. The last wish was made to save her life, by bounding his fate to hers, the Djinn couldn't kill her anymore, because apparently he can't kill the wish master.
So in my humble opinion the wish itself was already the proof of love by Geralt, not the Djinn. He said this wish to save her, even though he doesn't really understand why, because feelings like love are not really something you learn as witcher.

The wish was made, because he is in love, even though he didn't realize it back then. He wished it, so it was his desire. The djinn just fulfilled his desire/wish to be bound to her.



We probably discussed this issue like 100 times now (i know, because i was there ), but lore-wise, just lore-wise(!), it's almost impossible that Geralt and Yennefer won't seek out for each other again, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but someday, always and that was Geralt's wish, binding their fates together.

 

[Frosty1979]

About the Last Wish: it's not love! Djinn or genies in general cannot fulfill that kind of wish because it's unnatural and it will interfere with free will. Reading the short story, we can understand that Geralt's goal was to protect Yen from Djinn, but how? The most reliable hypothesis is that Geralt wanted to "bind their destinies", this way he would have prevented the Djinn from hurting Yen as any action against her would have fallen inevitably against him, and we know that the Djinn can not hurt those who express the wish, aka its master.

Also Geralt had already shown affection towards Yennefer, even before that wish.

This is a very old issue.

Hmm if a Djinni can not interfere with free will, how is it possible for him to bind their destinies then? To me it looks that Geralt and Yennefer are forced to be together and still are separated again and again, which in a way could be argued, shows that their free will is that they don´t want to be together long term.

I agree though that Geralt loves Yennefer in the books. Like he loved other women too... I believe the difference with Yennefer is that with Yennefer he has the Djinni link, which forces him to cross path with her again and again. In real life I would compare their falling in love with an arranged marriage, where two people simply learn over time to love each other, because they have to be with each other all the time.

But hey that´s my interpretation. I can accept some people seeing it differently. That´s why I guess (and hope) we even have the choice between Yennefer and Triss. Some will play Geralt like Yennefer is his true love and others like me will probably say no, my Geralt will be with Triss instead.

Hmm that made me thinking now... would players, who go for Triss, break the Djinni´s wish? Would that mean then, that the Djinni would seek revenge on Yennefer? Might be an ending where the consequence of choosing Triss is Yennefer´s death?

 

[wright1978]

Hmm if a Djinni can not interfere with free will, how is it possible for him to bind their destinies then? To me it looks that Geralt and Yennefer are forced to be together and still are separated again and again, which in a way could be argued, shows that their free will is that they don´t want to be together long term.

I agree though that Geralt loves Yennefer in the books. Like he loved other women too... I believe the difference with Yennefer is that with Yennefer he has the Djinni link, which forces him to cross path with her again and again. In real life I would compare their falling in love with an arranged marriage, where two people simply learn over time to love each other, because they have to be with other all the time.

But hey that´s my interpretation. I can accept some people seeing it differently. That´s why I guess (and hope) we even have the choice between Yennefer and Triss. Some will play Geralt like Yennefer is his true love and others like me will probably say no, my Geralt will be with Triss instead.

Hmm that made me thinking now... would players, who go for Triss, break the Djinni´s wish? Would that mean then, that the Djinni would seek revenge on Yennefer? Might be an ending where the consequence of choosing Triss is Yennefer´s death?

Yep i definitely want equal portrayal so those that want to go down path of Yen as his true love can, whereas others like me who want to pursue the new love path with Triss can.
Could Geralt's death have already broken the djinni's wish? I have no issue with there being negative consequences(including Negative fates for Yen) for choosing Triss as long as there are separate negative consequences for the Yen choice path.

 

[Frosty1979]

I agree mostly, even though i wouldn't write it as aggressive as you, at least not anymore, you will probably find 10 similar posts like yours by me in this thread

But it's quite funny that almost once a month somebody mentions this and the reactions are always the same

I think the lack of Yennefer in the games and the lack of book information (so far) is misleading most of the players. They just see the game-Triss (primarily from TW2) and judge her according to that game and solely based on this game, hence the "misunderstanding" between players and bookreaders, because the readers know "another" Triss and how she progressed through the books AND games.
IMO she was just naive, but she seems to grow up through the books/games. She has (or had) her faults, but everybody has them.




The Djinn isn't responsible for love. The last wish was made to save her life, by bounding his fate to hers, the Djinn couldn't kill her anymore, because apparently he can't kill the wish master.
So in my humble opinion the wish itself was already the proof of love by Geralt, not the Djinn. He said this wish to save her, even though he doesn't really understand why, because feelings like love are not really something you learn as witcher.

The wish was made, because he is in love, even though he didn't realize it back then. He wished it, so it was his desire. The djinn just fulfilled his desire/wish to be bound to her.



We probably discussed this issue like 100 times now (i know, because i was there ), but lore-wise, just lore-wise(!), it's almost impossible that Geralt and Yennefer won't seek out for each other again, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but someday, always and that was Geralt's wish, binding their fates together.

You make valid points. And probably lore wise Yennefer must be the right choice. Still the way I see Geralt, obviously also because of the way I played him in the game, is that he would have saved Triss in the same way as Yennefer, if he would have been in the same situation with her.

So for me it´s totally justifiable that Triss could replace Yennefer,... well if it wouldn´t be for the Djinni... which brings me back to the Djinni being the main reason that Yennefer comes first.

Hmm I was sure I would choose Triss, but if the consequence in the game would be that Yennefer dies I probably would have to sacrifice my personal preference for Yennefer´s sake.... ^^

 

[Crivilnite]

Hmm if a Djinni can not interfere with free will, how is it possible for him to bind their destinies then? To me it looks that Geralt and Yennefer are forced to be together and still are separated again and again, which in a way could be argued, shows that their free will is that they don´t want to be together long term.

I agree though that Geralt loves Yennefer in the books. Like he loved other women too... I believe the difference with Yennefer is that with Yennefer he has the Djinni link, which forces him to cross path with her again and again. In real life I would compare their falling in love with an arranged marriage, where two people simply learn over time to love each other, because they have to be with each other all the time.

But hey that´s my interpretation. I can accept some people seeing it differently. That´s why I guess (and hope) we even have the choice between Yennefer and Triss. Some will play Geralt like Yennefer is his true love and others like me will probably say no, my Geralt will be with Triss instead.

Hmm that made me thinking now... would players, who go for Triss, break the Djinni´s wish? Would that mean then, that the Djinni would seek revenge on Yennefer? Might be an ending where the consequence of choosing Triss is Yennefer´s death?

Where and when does Geralt actually LOVE other woman (Ciri it's other kind of love? Comparing Geralt and Yen to arranged marriage or basing their love ONLY in the Djinn it's misunderstanding the novels and making one of the pillars of the saga, that cursed and doomed but still passionate and unbeatable love, an absolute joke.

 

[Kallelinski]

Hmm if a Djinni can not interfere with free will, how is it possible for him to bind their destinies then? To me it looks that Geralt and Yennefer are forced to be together and still are separated again and again, which in a way could be argued, shows that their free will is that they don´t want to be together long term.

[...]

Hmm that made me thinking now... would players, who go for Triss, break the Djinni´s wish? Would that mean then, that the Djinni would seek revenge on Yennefer? Might be an ending where the consequence of choosing Triss is Yennefer´s death?

Well or it doesn't matter what happens in their lives, they always come back to each other, because they can't live without the other one or love anybody else, because they never felt for anybody what they felt for each other

Like the Istredd-issue, Yennefer was originally looking for a suitable long-term partner and by all means, Istredd was a better candidate for her than Geralt, but she couldn't admit her feelings and run away.

Imagine this "bounding" like a rubber band, you can stretch, stretch and stretch it, but it will always come back to its original form, unless it tears apart and both die, The End.

Could Geralt's death have already broken the djinni's wish? I have no issue with there being negative consequences(including Negative fates for Yen) for choosing Triss as long as there are separate negative consequences for the Yen choice path.

How so? He died and then Yennefer (almost?) died too, so the fate of one is also the fate for the other one. Then both were resurrected, so it looks like their fates are still bound to each other.

You make valid points. And probably lore wise Yennefer must be the right choice. Still the way I see Geralt, obviously also because of the way I played him in the game, is that he would have saved Triss in the same way as Yennefer, if he would have been in the same situation with her.

So for me it´s totally justifiable that Triss could replace Yennefer,... well if it wouldn´t be for the Djinni... which brings me back to the Djinni being the main reason that Yennefer comes first.

Hmm I was sure I would choose Triss, but if the consequence in the game would be that Yennefer dies I probably would have to sacrifice my personal preference for Yennefer´s sake.... ^^

If Triss was the one in the Last Wish chapter, it would have gone quite differently. She would have healed Dandelion and then went her ways again, because she isn't Yennefer. She wouldn't have tried to use the Djinn for her own needs and therefore Geralt would have never made that wish

If you exchange a character, you also have to exchange the actions according to their behaviour.

 

[Sephira]

Hmm if a Djinni can not interfere with free will, how is it possible for him to bind their destinies then? To me it looks that Geralt and Yennefer are forced to be together and still are separated again and again, which in a way could be argued, shows that their free will is that they don´t want to be together long term.
I agree though that Geralt loves Yennefer in the books. Like he loved other women too... I believe the difference with Yennefer is that with Yennefer he has the Djinni link, which forces him to cross path with her again and again. In real life I would compare their falling in love with an arranged marriage, where two people simply learn over time to love each other, because they have to be with each other all the time.

But hey that´s my interpretation. I can accept some people seeing it differently. That´s why I guess (and hope) we even have the choice between Yennefer and Triss. Some will play Geralt like Yennefer is his true love and others like me will probably say no, my Geralt will be with Triss instead.

Because destiny and love are two separate things. Destiny is hinted as something both abstract and concrete. They are not forced to stay together, rather they can meet often than usual when they are not together, but that doesn't mean love. Don't forget they broke up for two times: 4 years for the first, 4-5 years for the second. (I had to check sorry for my late reply lol). They were together again and made up after Ciri "forced" them to meet.

Don't forget also when Geralt believed Yennefer to be Vilgefortz's ally, he threw all the despise he could feel against her, like if she never existed. (This justifies...ahem, the relationship with Fringilla).

And yes, of course anyone can think differently about certain matters, that's the free will.

Hmm that made me thinking now... would players, who go for Triss, break the Djinni´s wish? Would that mean then, that the Djinni would seek revenge on Yennefer? Might be an ending where the consequence of choosing Triss is Yennefer´s death?

After more than 10 years? Hell, what kept the Djinni from killing Yennefer after Rivia events then?
Geralt's destiny was already broken (I'm not talking about the wish) at the end of the book, but that's another story. I don't think so anyway.

 

[GHOSTMD]

Sooo Triss is now the BAD BAD "backstabber" again yes? Pfff wrong my lovely ladys ... dead wrong...
Sure she made mistakes... so did Yennefer... even Geralt made them ... that the fricking world.

And once again, at this point, not only "canon" Triss counts, you have to count the things from the games to
and Triss was going through pretty much the same shit as Yennefer. And for what, for Geralt and "Ciri" aka
Alvin. So do not come up with hue hue backstabbing scarred kittey triss afraid of everything because she's
so weak ok?

I just remind everbody, go open minded in TW3 not prejudged by the books alone.
Thats why: #team_rather_not_choose_at_all_show_me_cdpr !

 

[Sephira]

Sooo Triss is now the BAD BAD "backstabber" again yes? Pfff wrong my lovely ladys ... dead wrong...
Sure she made mistakes... so did Yennefer... even Geralt made them ... that the fricking world.

And once again, at this point, not only "canon" Triss counts, you have to count the things from the games to
and Triss was going through pretty much the same shit as Yennefer. And for what, for Geralt and "Ciri" aka
Alvin. So do not come up with hue hue backstabbing scarred kittey triss afraid of everything because she's
so weak ok?

I just remind everbody, go open minded in TW3 not prejudged by the books alone.
Thats why: #team_rather_not_choose_at_all_show_me_cdpr !

Going back to previous pages you'll read this post..

Then... It seems after that Triss left her fears behind and become more mature and brave

:hai:

I, for example, will go open minded for the sake of playing different walkthroughs, just as I did with W1 and W2. But I know what my "canon" choice will be.

 

[shawn_kh]

First of all I want to state that I've read the books, and I formed a poor opinion of Yennefer because of some of her actions. But this poor opinion goes for all mages including Triss, because most of them are entitled and selfish backstabbers with a dangerous lust for power.
That being said both Yennefer and Triss have helped Geralt, they have made sacrifices for Geralt, and they also have taken advantage of him in return. For example Yennefer asked Geralt to kill the Dragon (Borch), so she could possibly cure her infertility. She knew that it put Geralt's life in grave danger and the fact that it would go against Geralt's morale code. Let's say he killed the Dragon and she successfully cured her infertility, but Geralt would still be infertile. He would not be able to impregnate her, and I find this to be very dodgy. Fans argue that the circumstances and her motherly emotions were responsible, but I have to disagree and state that on that occasion she saw Geralt as everything common folk saw Geralt to be. She saw him as an emotionless freak without any morality that should be used as a tool. Both Triss and Yen have betrayed Geralt and each other in my humble opinion, and I'm not going to argue with anyone who believes otherwise. We cannot deny that Geralt has feelings for Yennefer, but we cannot also deny that he has feelings for Triss even in the books.
Yennefer has made sacrifices for Geralt but so has Triss. Triss nurtured and helped Geralt, when he was at his worst. He had lost his memory, and he was nothing but a clueless trouble maker. He would not have survived without her help, and she saved his life on multiple occasions and provided him with a house and open arms to go to. She stood by him even when his error of judgement caused Foltest's assassination, and she did not deny their relationship instead she tried to use her power to help him. She lost her political position and house because of it. She kept warning Geralt about Sile', but Geralt would not listen due to his arrogance. She tried to protect him from Sile' and Letho, and as a result she got kidnapped, turned into a statue, and tortured. Yet at the end of all of this she still loved Geralt.
It is a tough decision already, and I cannot make it without seeing how the events transpire in the Witcher 3.

 

[wichat]

You point "...Both Triss and Yen have betrayed Geralt " but also "...Yet at the end of all of this she Triss) still loved Geralt" Wha about Yen's love for him?
You are talking about Triss' acts in game.

Yes, he has feelings for Triss but he is not in love with her, if he was she never needed an spell to seduce him. There's a huge lack of information in the 2 games about Triss and if she was aware of Yen alive.

But not in the books, where Sapkowski explain how strong, passionate and true is the love between Geralt and Yen through 7 novels. Triss is never portraited as his true love. Just a good friend who became his lover not by his own will.

 

[Kaldea]

I will never understand the degree of hate Yennefer gets. I can identify with her myself. I can come off as rude and arrogant at times due to the walls I put up around myself because I feel the need to hide my insecurities and seem more confident to others. Doesn't make me a bitch with no redeeming qualities and it doesn't make my marriage less "natural" because we argue sometimes. Also, the hate over the whole Yennefer changing herself from being a hunchback thing... How is it any different from the real world version of plastic surgery? I haven't seen an equal amount of hate over breast/butt implants and facial work when models have it convincingly done. People just ask for the names to Google the women for themselves. But with Yennefer, that somehow proves she's worse than Triss.

I find Yennefer/Geralt to be more realistic BECAUSE they have problems. They're beyond their "honeymoon period" and so difficulties present themselves and they no longer have to prove anything to each other. Fate/destiny talk aside, what appeals to me is that after all the breaks and bullshit, they eventually work through them and they find what they love about each other again. It's a realistic twist on a long term relationship in a fantasy world and as someone whose relationship is 13+ years old, I love it. Triss/Geralt seems to be the safe, stereotypical movie/game couple that we've seen a million times over because they represent the happiness and appeal of the fresh, new romance. But after time, that wears off and there will be problems there too. Triss just has more to prove now since she's the alternative.

The main problem in these discussions is the lack of responsibility towards Geralt. He's just as difficult as any other woman in the equation. It seems it's very easy to hate Yennefer for being difficult and in the same breath go off and hope Geralt can have any and all women (and at the same time) he sees fit without the responsibility of having to deal with them. I think that's complete bullshit in this context, but that's just me. I can't blame people for putting themselves in Geralt's position though since it is a fantasy series.

Either way, if Geralt is going to have a perfect, lasting relationship, the work has to come from both whomever is chosen AND him. Romance is not his #1 priority and that's why everyone's idea of that perfect relationship for Geralt will never happen.

 

[Crivilnite]

First of all I want to state that I've read the books, and I formed a poor opinion of Yennefer because of some of her actions. But this poor opinion goes for all mages including Triss, because most of them are entitled and selfish backstabbers with a dangerous lust for power.
That being said both Yennefer and Triss have helped Geralt, they have made sacrifices for Geralt, and they also have taken advantage of him in return. For example Yennefer asked Geralt to kill the Dragon (Borch), so she could possibly cure her infertility. She knew that it put Geralt's life in grave danger and the fact that it would go against Geralt's morale code. Let's say he killed the Dragon and she successfully cured her infertility, but Geralt would still be infertile. He would not be able to impregnate her, and I find this to be very dodgy. Fans argue that the circumstances and her motherly emotions were responsible, but I have to disagree and state that on that occasion she saw Geralt as everything common folk saw Geralt to be. She saw him as an emotionless freak without any morality that should be used as a tool. Both Triss and Yen have betrayed Geralt and each other in my humble opinion, and I'm not going to argue with anyone who believes otherwise. We cannot deny that Geralt has feelings for Yennefer, but we cannot also deny that he has feelings for Triss even in the books.
Yennefer has made sacrifices for Geralt but so has Triss. Triss nurtured and helped Geralt, when he was at his worst. He had lost his memory, and he was nothing but a clueless trouble maker. He would not have survived without her help, and she saved his life on multiple occasions and provided him with a house and open arms to go to. She stood by him even when his error of judgement caused Foltest's assassination, and she did not deny their relationship instead she tried to use her power to help him. She lost her political position and house because of it. She kept warning Geralt about Sile', but Geralt would not listen due to his arrogance. She tried to protect him from Sile' and Letho, and as a result she got kidnapped, turned into a statue, and tortured. Yet at the end of all of this she still loved Geralt.
It is a tough decision already, and I cannot make it without seeing how the events transpire in the Witcher 3.

Book Geralt never had comparable feels for Triss as for Yenn, neither Triss did the enormous sacrifices Yen did for him and for Ciri.

And yes, game Triss has evolved and put a lot for Geralt in games... cause Yenn is absent in a design decission so is pretty unfair to make it a Yennefer mistake.

 

[wichat]

I want to explain, as CDPR didn't follow the lore about Triss (a detail I never understood if I compare her character with the others like Zoltan, Foltest, Jaskier, even Geralt, all of the in the lore) I will also play out of the lore as if the books never had exist. I love the Triss ingame just because to me, the Triss of the games has nothing to do with the Triss from books.

 

[Crivilnite]

I want to explain, as CDPR didn't follow the lore about Triss (a detail I never understood if I compare her character with the others like Zoltan, Foltest, Jaskier, even Geralt, all of the in the lore) I will also play out of the lore as if the books never had exist. I love the Triss ingame just because to me, the Triss of the games has nothing to do with the Triss from books.

I guess they tried to make a Triss/Yen mix for the first game and then was too late for changing, i like your approach and a was a bit what i did in the first 2 games, but with Yen and Ciri coming back one of the biggest reasons those are my favorite books will be presenta and will be too strong to be ignored.

 

[addar]

i would sacrfice both if have a chance to geralt meets Visenna again, it was so touching in books, would be perfect "neutral" option

geralt- mother's boy so kawaiiii

 

[Kallelinski]

It's not black & white. Triss isn't a bad person, a little bit misguided in the books and not totally honest with Geralt in the games, but that doesn't mean she is the devil.

But you can't deny that she withheld some crucial information from Geralt (as ALL his friends did, but her involvement in the lodge is probably the biggest secret, she is basically with the bad girls and she knows it !) and you have to question yourself why she was doing that. It's not like Geralt is a young child, who can't accept uncomfortable truths. He had amnesia, yes, but that doesn't mean he is stupid.

So Triss isn't a good girl either, but she is trying, with more or less success.

On the other hand we have Yennefer, who said "fuck you" to the lodge and went asap after Ciri with the first chance. So it's quite interesting atleast, if Triss decides to stay with the lodge in the beginning of the games and keep it secret from Geralt after everything happened in the books.

And for some people this is already enough to mistrust her and to question her real intentions, especially since she doesn't want to share it with Geralt in the first place. I hope TW3 will bring up this matter again, i was quite disappointed by the short conversation about that matter in the last act. Some people didn't even had that conversation, so the talk about that can't be finished yet.