This game is probably the pinnacle of achievement in game design. It's such a shame management destroyed it.

+
As always, art is destroyed by greed. This game's design, while not flawless, has such a depth that you won't even realize all the design elements that are happening in front of your eyes. The main innovation of Cyberpunk can be summarized as "designing an actual city within a game".

Night City itself is the actual design achievement, in terms of :
  • City Design: The city actually looks like a city. In every aspect (aesthetic, architectural, scale-wise), at every level of detail. It's not a gaming abstraction of "here's a central citadal and like five streets radiating out": It's bigger than any city that's been portrayed in detail in any game, ever, and it has the complexity of a modern metropolis that has been extrapolated in a fascinating way into a cyberpunk future. If you don't think so, you just don't understand the city yet. Go around the city, spend more time in it. Do some of the side quests and really look at it in detail.
  • Making use of all that space: The way the game makes use of the detailed nooks and crannies and makes use of the overall space of Night City is beyond anything ever seen in a game. From corporate headquarters, residential megabuildings and high-rises, to abandoned malls, back alleyways and remote badlands farms, every location is dripping with detail and hides deeper secrets under the surface.
  • Interweaving stories into the world: The game does itself a disservice by not screaming at the player to do EVERY SINGLE SIDE QUEST. Every one of the side quests are multi-part long affairs that actually guide you in exploring the city itself. They add an incredible amount of richness to the world itself, and as a sum, makes Night City feel utterly alive.
In essence, the RPG/story portion of the game is actually the city itself and the stories that play out within. On top of that, you also have the fact that this city is actually a seamless open world. It's an enormous achievement to pack all of this into a single game. Sure the open world aspects are not flawless yet, but if you're telling me that this is somehow not an RPG or that the game is a failure "because it doesn't have good police AI", I'm sorry, you're just missing the point.

Please, whatever you do, please stop criticizing the devs. The game is nothing short of a breakthrough in game design. Channel your anger towards the management who thought they could get away with sullying art for a little more money.
 
The world they built is beautiful for sure, but thats about it.

Have you played all of the side missions? Have you explored the city? What else do you need than a living breathing world in an RPG?
You're implying that designing the world is trivial, and the game is somehow lacking in all other aspects.
I completely disagree. The world and its byproduct, how the characters and stories unfold within the city, is absolutely brilliant, so it feels completely dismissive and disingenous to say "...but thats about it."
 
Man, even if it doesn't have the amount of content I wanted to have, this is probably one of my favorite games of all time. I really hope that CDPR doesn't give up on their "new born child". I liked stuff enought to endure the bugs that can break immersion. I actually wanted to send a message to the devs (real devs, not the managers) so they can at least be happy about their efforts, it clearly has some love, it's obvious to me that they just didn't have enough time.
 
Noone is hating on the devs. It's painfully obvious by now what went down with managment.
But people have the right to criticise the product if it isn't what have been promised. And more often than not, this forum provides constructive ones too.
The city is great! The game has the basis to be one of a kind, but atm it only exists to support the story. (And frankly the story could be longer.)
The issue is, the city as it is in it's current state, doesn't fulfill it's role in a open world game. Not to a level at least that would fee satisfying. Yet!
I hope.
 
Noone is hating on the devs. It's painfully obvious by now what went down with managment.
But people have the right to criticise the product if it isn't what have been promised. And more often than not, this forum provides constructive ones too.
The city is great! The game has the basis to one of a kind, but atm it only exists to support the story. (And frankly the story could be longer.)
The issue is, the city as it is in it's current state, doesn't fulfill it's role in a n open world game. Not to a level at least that would fee satisfying. Yet!
I hope.

Disagree...
 
Have you played all of the side missions? Have you explored the city? What else do you need than a living breathing world in an RPG?
You're implying that designing the world is trivial, and the game is somehow lacking in all other aspects.
I completely disagree. The world and its byproduct, how the characters and stories unfold within the city, is absolutely brilliant, so it feels completely dismissive and disingenous to say "...but thats about it."

The world is empty.
No extra activities.
No character customization after character creation.
Body modifications feel cheap if they are outside of game quests.
No mini-games
The whole adult aspect of the game is a joke.
The romance is a joke.
The AI is a joke.
The gangs are a joke.
And story decisions don't really matter when all you have is "Yes" "Rude Yes"
I could go on.

But if you stop doing the quests and just wander around the city searching for something to do there is nothing of interest to do.
 
The world is empty.
No extra activities.
No character customization after character creation.
Body modifications feel cheap if they are outside of game quests.
No mini-games
The whole adult aspect of the game is a joke.
The romance is a joke.
The AI is a joke.
The gangs are a joke.
And story decisions don't really matter when all you have is "Yes" "Rude Yes"
I could go on.

But if you stop doing the quests and just wander around the city searching for something to do there is nothing of interest to do.

- The world is empty. - what game you are playing?
- No extra activities. - have a lot, but i want more :)
- No character customization after character creation. - they NEVER promisses it...
- Body modifications feel cheap if they are outside of game quests. They cant improve, i hope...
- No mini-games - excelent :)
- The whole adult aspect of the game is a joke.- get easy, but about NUDE, i agree...
- The romance is a joke. - why?
- The AI is a joke. - they say, are bugged...
- The gangs are a joke. - huh?
- And story decisions don't really matter when all you have is "Yes" "Rude Yes" - disagree...

"I could go on." You is free :)
 
- The world is empty. - what game you are playing?
- No extra activities. - have a lot, but i want more :)
- No character customization after character creation. - they NEVER promisses it...
- Body modifications feel cheap if they are outside of game quests. They cant improve, i hope...
- No mini-games - excelent :)
- The whole adult aspect of the game is a joke.- get easy, but about NUDE, i agree...
- The romance is a joke. - why?
- The AI is a joke. - they say, are bugged...
- The gangs are a joke. - huh?
- And story decisions don't really matter when all you have is "Yes" "Rude Yes" - disagree...

"I could go on." You is free :)

- The world is empty. - what game you are playing?
No argument.

- No extra activities. - have a lot, but i want more :)
No argument or evidence

- No character customization after character creation. - they NEVER promisses it...
Excuses. Witcher 3 had it.

- Body modifications feel cheap if they are outside of game quests. They cant improve, i hope...
Huh?

- No mini-games - excelent :)
So you agree. Good.

- The romance is a joke. - why?
Because after 1 romance scene they become a piece of furniture with no relevance or point.
CDPR promised these romance activities actually impacted the story and you could even go chill with them both during missions or on "off times" well that was lie but you don't seem to care about that.

- The AI is a joke. - they say, are bugged...
Lol its not a bug. Its place holder because they never bothered to finish it.

- The gangs are a joke. - huh?
No matter what you do to them or for them they don't seem to care. The story doesn't keep track of what gang you ally with or where you and they are. They are just goons in costume with no relevance.

- And story decisions don't really matter when all you have is "Yes" "Rude Yes" - disagree...
Oh I am sure you disagree but objectively speaking. You are wrong, people have charted every decision you can make when doing a mission.
There is only the Yes option or none at all. You always end up where you were before. Go ahead and experiment by reloading and choosing different dialogue options. They all lead back to the same conclusion.

Now more importantly you know CDPR doesn't pay you for defending them blindly right?
 
Last edited:
I think what he is trying to say is that the story has few options that really impact its path, but I'm not to complain about having your own way of saying things... It's a roleplaying game. But I tend to see people complaining about not feeling their choices not changing much. Though, they actually don't notice that some stuff needs actions, not words, to change... But who am I to complain if this game had more choices though.
 
- The world is empty. - what game you are playing?
No argument.

- No extra activities. - have a lot, but i want more :)
No argument or evidence

- No character customization after character creation. - they NEVER promisses it...
Excuses. Witcher 3 had it.

- Body modifications feel cheap if they are outside of game quests. They cant improve, i hope...
Huh?

- No mini-games - excelent :)
So you agree. Good.

- The romance is a joke. - why?
Because after 1 romance scene they become a piece of furniture with no relevance or point.
CDPR promised these romance activities actually impacted the story and you could even go chill with them both during missions or on "off times" well that was lie but you don't seem to care about that.

- The AI is a joke. - they say, are bugged...
Lol its not a bug. Its place holder because they never bothered to finish it.

- The gangs are a joke. - huh?
No matter what you do to them or for them they don't seem to care. The story doesn't keep track of what gang you ally with or where you and they are. They are just goons in costume with no relevance.

Now more importantly you know CDPR doesn't pay you for defending them blindly right?

I have many, but you write many things, do a proposital confusion to say - literally - nothing, in my opinion. Nothing what you are saying, to me, its real... you talk about another game to me, not about Cyberpunk.
Post automatically merged:

About the bug in AI, was what CDPR say in a interview to a German journal. But we can especulate about.
 
I have many, but you write many things, do a proposital confusion to say - literally - nothing, in my opinion. Nothing what you are saying, to me, its real... you talk about another game to me, not about Cyberpunk.
Post automatically merged:

About the bug in AI, was what CDPR say in a interview to a German journal. But we can especulate about.

Essentially I have back up my arguments and you haven't.
If you have any evidence or examples I would love to hear them but you have said nothing constructive to the discussion besides "Nuhun! Ain't true!" with nothing to disprove what I say.

If you enjoy the game despite all these short comings then fine. You do you buddy but don't lie about it.
And regarding the player impact on the story. Here is an article about how meaningless your choices are.
 
- The world is empty. - what game you are playing?
- No extra activities. - have a lot, but i want more :)
- No character customization after character creation. - they NEVER promisses it...
- Body modifications feel cheap if they are outside of game quests. They cant improve, i hope...
- No mini-games - excelent :)
- The whole adult aspect of the game is a joke.- get easy, but about NUDE, i agree...
- The romance is a joke. - why?
- The AI is a joke. - they say, are bugged...
- The gangs are a joke. - huh?
- And story decisions don't really matter when all you have is "Yes" "Rude Yes" - disagree...

"I could go on." You is free :)
- The world is empty. - what game you are playing?
The world is empty. It's nothing more than a façade. It's a movie set. It's nothing more than that. It's pretty, it's mesmerising, but it's an illusion that's designed to make you think there is more to it. There is nothing happening. No gang wars, no random arguments, no NPCs stopping and doing anything, no one carjacking. The only time the world feels like it has content is during a quest. The game is called open-world. That's not an open world.

- No extra activities. - have a lot, but i want more :)
The only things you can do are side quests and NCPD scanners. Both are, "Go here, shoot some bad guys, collect reward". It's pure grind and pure bloat. Games from a decade ago have more activities than this game. They are almsot a requirement in any open world game.

- No character customization after character creation. - they NEVER promisses it...
Not a feature you should promise. If you have a character creator, a way to change basic appearance is almost a hidden requirement. It's expected at this point.

- Body modifications feel cheap if they are outside of game quests. They cant improve, i hope...
They can, they just won't. The second I saw how shallow the character creator was, I knew it would be laughable.

- No mini-games - excelent :)
Why would you say 'excellent' to this? I don't understand.

- The whole adult aspect of the game is a joke.- get easy, but about NUDE, i agree...
Lmao. What? They made it as a gimmick and it sold. They never intended to actually follow through on it.

- The romance is a joke. - why?
There are four options. Two straight, one gay, one lesbian. The relationships themselves are full of bad writing, copy and pasted dialogue, and no consequence at all. You cannot interact with your partner at all due to the dead world, you do nothing with them. They are there to watch a badly choreographed sex scene and that's it.

- The AI is a joke. - they say, are bugged...
Bugged is a cute term for non-existent.

- The gangs are a joke. - huh?
The gangs are a joke. How do you not understand that? It's all useless and they mean nothing.

- And story decisions don't really matter when all you have is "Yes" "Rude Yes" - disagree...
You disagree but he's right. The game has no choices. Everything gets you from point A to point B, no matter what you do. If you remain silent, 9/10 it will force you to say something to move the scene back to its linear path. It's all an illusion. If you're rude, no one cares. You can't change something thing by saying the right thing.
 
- The world is empty. - what game you are playing?
The world is empty. It's nothing more than a façade. It's a movie set. It's nothing more than that. It's pretty, it's mesmerising, but it's an illusion that's designed to make you think there is more to it. There is nothing happening. No gang wars, no random arguments, no NPCs stopping and doing anything, no one carjacking. The only time the world feels like it has content is during a quest. The game is called open-world. That's not an open world.

- No extra activities. - have a lot, but i want more :)
The only things you can do are side quests and NCPD scanners. Both are, "Go here, shoot some bad guys, collect reward". It's pure grind and pure bloat. Games from a decade ago have more activities than this game. They are almsot a requirement in any open world game.

- No character customization after character creation. - they NEVER promisses it...
Not a feature you should promise. If you have a character creator, a way to change basic appearance is almost a hidden requirement. It's expected at this point.

- Body modifications feel cheap if they are outside of game quests. They cant improve, i hope...
They can, they just won't. The second I saw how shallow the character creator was, I knew it would be laughable.

- No mini-games - excelent :)
Why would you say 'excellent' to this? I don't understand.

- The whole adult aspect of the game is a joke.- get easy, but about NUDE, i agree...
Lmao. What? They made it as a gimmick and it sold. They never intended to actually follow through on it.

- The romance is a joke. - why?
There are four options. Two straight, one gay, one lesbian. The relationships themselves are full of bad writing, copy and pasted dialogue, and no consequence at all. You cannot interact with your partner at all due to the dead world, you do nothing with them. They are there to watch a badly choreographed sex scene and that's it.

- The AI is a joke. - they say, are bugged...
Bugged is a cute term for non-existent.

- The gangs are a joke. - huh?
The gangs are a joke. How do you not understand that? It's all useless and they mean nothing.

- And story decisions don't really matter when all you have is "Yes" "Rude Yes" - disagree...
You disagree but he's right. The game has no choices. Everything gets you from point A to point B, no matter what you do. If you remain silent, 9/10 it will force you to say something to move the scene back to its linear path. It's all an illusion. If you're rude, no one cares. You can't change something thing by saying the right thing.

i read the first part, calm down. Have in my view, can be poor, but have. NPCs are 'basic', but i think they ll improve it (i hope) after FIX the bugs. NPCs have AI, primary, maybe, but need fix what they call like a 'bug'. Police are worst...belive me...about romance: old insue with CDPR and game design...in my opinion. few options and lines of dialogs...

Is it. But, atention, the criteria here is subjetive about everything what we are talking about, except about bugs (police case).
 
i read the first part, calm down. Have in my view, can be poor, but have. NPCs are 'basic', but i think they ll improve it (i hope) after FIX the bugs. NPCs have AI, primary, maybe, but need fix what they call like a 'bug'. Police are worst...belive me...about romance: old insue with CDPR and game design...in my opinion. few options and lines of dialogs...

Is it. But, atention, the criteria here is subjetive about everything what we are talking about, except about bugs (police case).
Everything being talked about are objective facts.

Whether you like the game regardless or not is the subjective part.
You like it? Good for you. No one is trying to dispute that but don't stand there and tell me my decisions in the story matter because they don't.

I either do the quest or don't. There is no other option.
 
This game's design, while not flawless, has such a depth that you won't even realize all the design elements that are happening in front of your eyes.

I'm curious, have you played either of these games: Assassins Creed Odyssey, Yakuza 0, Saints Row 3/4, The Saboteur, Elder Scrolls?

If not, stop what you're doing and play Yakuza 0 -right now-. That game puts cyberpunk to shame in how well it uses its world.

Go around the city, spend more time in it. Do some of the side quests and really look at it in detail.

This is an RPG, not a walking simulator or a postcard collection. A nice looking backdrop for a sandbox game that doesn't exist is not really revolutionary. It's more 'unfinished'?

every location is dripping with detail and hides deeper secrets under the surface.

Like what? Closed doors? NPCs programmed to sit in the same space pretending to be alive? A <randomly generated gun> and <beanie>?

Assassins Creed did this miles better. Yes, the NPCs in it also do the thing of 'we just exist to be slaughtered by the player', but there's a lot more variety in locations. There's caves. Ships. Ship-wrecks. Towns and villas. Quarries. Docks. Military camps. Etc. Most of CP77's 'deeper secrets' is <a room full of bad guys with a side entrance if you havent leveled up one of the front door opening skills>.

Every one of the side quests are multi-part long affairs that actually guide you in exploring the city itself. They add an incredible amount of richness to the world itself, and as a sum, makes Night City feel utterly alive.

Ah yes, the multi part quests of 'shoot all the bad men' and 'loot the building / save the hostage'. These quests are really basic... Which is not a bad thing in in of itself but 'basic kill / loot' quests is not what I want out of AN RPG GAME I WAS PROMISED.

Please, whatever you do, please stop criticizing the devs.

This is the only good part of your post. I don't think aiming personal attacks, or even worse, threats at individual devs is -ever- excusable. I may not like the game, but I do agree, that those things shouldn't be taken personally.

However, if the end product is a mess that fails to impress, it shouldn't be excused because 'they did their best'. This isn't something a school child drew in class, this is a product we bought and were lied to about its contents.
 
Top Bottom