This game should be labelled as early access

[exxxed]

This game is not a full game. The post lifepath opening Mission dialogue doesn't even match what's happening in gameplay. There's tutorials that tell you things about the game that aren't real like the stashes connecting when they dont. Blood pump stopped working if you get arm cyberware. Gorilla arms have information in the text about the item that is incorrect. They give you three breast size options and only make clothing for one of them. So I don't know where you get off saying this game is complete. Because my copy at least is made out of spaghetti and lies. Most of the issues I've stated aren't even bugs they're just mistakes.

You seem to be mistaking what an full game means in this context and I apologize, the game is feature complete, it was the 1.0 version when it was released, it has a beginning, middle and end and has all the intended features present at release.

Now some of those features are bugged and some of them are half assed - that's not up for debate, it's a fact.

What is an Early Access game?

An incomplete version that is iterated upon with extra levels, mechanics and features based on player input and open ended discussion with the developer, basically we call Early Access what we used to call an Alpha version of a game, Cyberpunk is not that no matter how you look at it.

Like I mentioned, at most you can call it a beta release on the consoles, but even that is to wide of a net since some consoles run it fine if not a bit blurry, so it's inconsistent.

Now we can go back and forth about the so called promised features that are not in the game until we see red, the bottom line is people hear and see what they want to hear and to see and nothing will change that.

They made a mistake launching the console versions the way they did, no doubt, but I'm sorry this is not an Early Access game.

 

[BullTheDozer.]

You seem to be mistaking what an full game means in this context and I apologize, the game is feature complete, it was the 1.0 version when it was released, it has a beginning, middle and end and has all the intended features present at release.

Now some of those features are bugged and some of them are half assed - that's not up for debate, it's a fact.

What is an Early Access game?

An incomplete version that is iterated upon with extra levels, mechanics and features based on player input and open ended discussion with the developer, basically we call Early Access what we used to call an Alpha version of a game, Cyberpunk is not that no matter how you look at it.

Like I mentioned, at most you can call it a beta release on the consoles, but even that is to wide of a net since some consoles run it fine if not a bit blurry, so it's inconsistent.

Now we can go back and forth about the so called promised features that are not in the game until we see red, the bottom line is people hear and see what they want to hear and to see and nothing will change that.

They made a mistake launching the console versions the way they did, no doubt, but I'm sorry this is not an Early Access game.

I definitely wouldn't call this game "feature-complete" on account of all the missing content and features. Like I said before this game is incomplete. And by your definition should be early. access

 

[Garrison72]

Remember Arkham Knight on PC? It was so bad Steam removed it. And rightly so. This bullshit with AAA devs incrementally finishing their games after release has got to stop.

 

[Geommander]

I definitely wouldn't call this game "feature-complete" on account of all the missing content and features. Like I said before this game is incomplete. And by your definition should be early. access

I would agree with @exxxed in that the game was not released in an Early Access state, despite the shortcomings on finished vs unfinished content (still debatable and impossible to prove as in my opinion they cleverly hid those with vague commentary/clever marketing), and the unfounded (misleading..?) claims of it running "surprisingly well" on consoles (which is the basis of the class action lawsuit in the making, not for consumers as much as for misled investors - this is a very serious accusation, even by removing the "consumer satisfaction" factor).

However the intent of the developer can be put to question if one realizes that the game could have been released as an Early Access in early 2020 or even 2019. Provided effective QA was used, they should have been able to project correctly the timeline and expected outcome at some point, if not in 2018 or earlier. Which they didn't (?). So my personal educated guess is that:

1) they chose to gamble by keeping it as a "timely" release and put the pressure on devs to keep doing crunch hours when the management realized it was broken and they were close to breaching all their contracts with partners;

2) they avoided the Early Access (life-)path to maximize profit by using the anticipation, momentum, timing (Christmas sales) and the hype (they cleverly never dispelled this, even when it led to incorrect assumptions/statements) to their advantage, hoping that the finished content (whatever that would be in Dec 2020) would be enough to keep refunds at a minimum (which it did) and avoid as much backlash as possible from partners (although they were furious when the refunds were offered without consulting them, ie Sony).

All in all I would say a very successful gamble so far, with minimal backlash, and with a very big part of the gaming community defending the game at least in these forums - which is funny, as I see it, because the game itself is not the issue, instead the way it was delivered and how the company reacted towards media and consumers seems more of an issue to me than the game, which I enjoy.

So, while I personally enjoy the game, I feel let down by how CDPR conducted business and how it used the people's hype (it had previously bred) to keep pressure on devs and mask the failure that was the QA management. And no, they will never let you or me or anyone know how much content was "cut" (if any) before release, because they didn't have time to complete it. So let's just leave that aside - it is also true for any other company out there, so it is to be expected.

So, to conclude, in my eyes CDPR is welcoming itself to the pantheon of mega-corp culture. I suppose we will soon see corpo junk-slang such us "our DNA" and "our brand" sliding in the official slides to investors (or internal corpo memos that try to boost worker confidence and feeling of belonging ). Managers and investors really like feeling like they belong somewhere (even when they are clueless about the product and what workers expect... pfff).

Hmmm, seems like I got all-Johnny lately - must be the corpo shit I endure where I work...

Note:
Yeah, I do believe that it is crystal clear we are now for them consumers, not gamers - investors and the polish govt. and whoever else put money here don't care one bit how much we love our RPGs, they just want proven financials and maximized profit - so, I understand that they are an emerging mega-corp, I try not to get confused with the"friendly" comments, this is just clever PR. Anyone working in customer relations or corporate image-making can understand how that language tries to sound like and what it tries to mask. Up to now it seems to work wonders.

 

[Solidus2kill]

this game should have been a "pc/next gen console game" labelled as early access

 

[exxxed]

I definitely wouldn't call this game "feature-complete" on account of all the missing content and features. Like I said before this game is incomplete. And by your definition should be early. access

What are you even talking about at this point what missing features?

 

[Mentos3]

All in all I would say a very successful gamble so far, with minimal backlash, and with a very big part of the gaming community defending the game at least in these forums

It's a CDPR-Forum.
And if there will be a good outcome, we will see.
Nobody is hyping Bioware anymore. And although MS bought Bethesda I'm staying suspicous. No TES6 preorder, that's for sure. Almost everybody knows that good old Blizzard is not the same.

There are reason why this really "big" studios/companies fall over the cliff. There are a few things CDPR has in common with them.
Sad, but it is what it is.

 

[exxxed]

-snip-

This is a good post based on conjecture and speculation I'm afraid but I agree with the sentiment behind it.

CDPR should have been clear about the shortcomings on the first generation PS4 and Xbox One and should have delayed that release while also making sure it was more stable across the board.

The point is, cleverly disguised tricks to sell the game, that's marketing, it's everywhere and it's been like that since forever, their job is to prey on consumer's lack of research and abstinence, it's what drives the economy in the capitalist era.

I don't understand why people are so shocked about a bombastic marketing campaign... everything they mentioned in the trailers are present in the game almost verbatim, yes they made it seem like it was all this, that and the other because... it's made to leave an impression, it's why nothing is advertised as having average features ... ever.

 

[tonyj13b]

I reinstalled the game today to see if it has improved at all. I didn't notice any bugs except for perks no longer working after loading the game. The perks show up as unlocked but don't actually work.

Mainly I was just reminded that the game is really boring. Shooting and stabbing enemies who lack AI gets old really fast. Knowing that the speech options don't make any difference in the game makes sitting through the dialogue segments very tedious. Should have just made cutscenes since there is no consequence to the options you choose. It all seems very pointless.

I still regret wasting my money and I have very little faith that the game will improve on those problems. The game is fundamentally bad. Pretty graphics though....

 

[exxxed]

There are reason why this really "big" studios/companies fall over the cliff. There are a few things CDPR has in common with them.
Sad, but it is what it is.

This is one of the best launches in the history of video games, the best launch of a PC title ever.

Yeah... I don't know at this point.

 

[Geommander]

This is one of the best launches in the history of video games, the best launch of a PC title ever.

Yeah... I don't know at this point.

I agree, they did make it a complete success, even if you include the things that went wrong. All things considered, this should look way better towards the end of 2021, if CDPR play their cards well. Which would be good for us as well. Let's hope this period may also serve as a "what-to-avoid-doing" guide in this next time-frame and help define what they next have in store for CP2077.

I suppose this will actually prove if my previous speculation is just mean and that CDPR just made mistakes or if I am in the right place and the company will try to ascend to more mega-corp "godhood" (let's just hope that micro-transactions will not define the gameplay in a year or two, in any case).

Post automatically merged: Feb 15, 2021

It's a CDPR-Forum.

Hahaha! Yeah, after I read my post again I felt like saying so myself, cheers

 

[BullTheDozer.]

What are you even talking about at this point what missing features?

I would agree with @exxxed in that the game was not released in an Early Access state, despite the shortcomings on finished vs unfinished content (still debatable and impossible to prove as in my opinion they cleverly hid those with vague commentary/clever marketing), and the unfounded (misleading..?) claims of it running "surprisingly well" on consoles (which is the basis of the class action lawsuit in the making, not for consumers as much as for misled investors - this is a very serious accusation, even by removing the "consumer satisfaction" factor).

However the intent of the developer can be put to question if one realizes that the game could have been released as an Early Access in early 2020 or even 2019. Provided effective QA was used, they should have been able to project correctly the timeline and expected outcome at some point, if not in 2018 or earlier. Which they didn't (?). So my personal educated guess is that:

1) they chose to gamble by keeping it as a "timely" release and put the pressure on devs to keep doing crunch hours when the management realized it was broken and they were close to breaching all their contracts with partners;

2) they avoided the Early Access (life-)path to maximize profit by using the anticipation, momentum, timing (Christmas sales) and the hype (they cleverly never dispelled this, even when it led to incorrect assumptions/statements) to their advantage, hoping that the finished content (whatever that would be in Dec 2020) would be enough to keep refunds at a minimum (which it did) and avoid as much backlash as possible from partners (although they were furious when the refunds were offered without consulting them, ie Sony).

All in all I would say a very successful gamble so far, with minimal backlash, and with a very big part of the gaming community defending the game at least in these forums - which is funny, as I see it, because the game itself is not the issue, instead the way it was delivered and how the company reacted towards media and consumers seems more of an issue to me than the game, which I enjoy.

So, while I personally enjoy the game, I feel let down by how CDPR conducted business and how it used the people's hype (it had previously bred) to keep pressure on devs and mask the failure that was the QA management. And no, they will never let you or me or anyone know how much content was "cut" (if any) before release, because they didn't have time to complete it. So let's just leave that aside - it is also true for any other company out there, so it is to be expected.

So, to conclude, in my eyes CDPR is welcoming itself to the pantheon of mega-corp culture. I suppose we will soon see corpo junk-slang such us "our DNA" and "our brand" sliding in the official slides to investors (or internal corpo memos that try to boost worker confidence and feeling of belonging ). Managers and investors really like feeling like they belong somewhere (even when they are clueless about the product and what workers expect... pfff).

Hmmm, seems like I got all-Johnny lately - must be the corpo shit I endure where I work...

Note:
Yeah, I do believe that it is crystal clear we are now for them consumers, not gamers - investors and the polish govt. and whoever else put money here don't care one bit how much we love our RPGs, they just want proven financials and maximized profit - so, I understand that they are an emerging mega-corp, I try not to get confused with the"friendly" comments, this is just clever PR. Anyone working in customer relations or corporate image-making can understand how that language tries to sound like and what it tries to mask. Up to now it seems to work wonders.

"This is the game we meant to make we promise" isn't a very convincing lie in my opinion and this is a discussion for another forum. My point remains I believe this game should be early access because it is broken and missing many quality of life and advertised features.

Post automatically merged: Feb 16, 2021

What are you even talking about at this point what missing features?

You clearly weren't paying very much attention to advertising this game is missing features that were hyped in development but that is a discussion for another forum. My opinion remains that this game should be labeled Early Access because it is broken and missing many quality of life and promised features.

 

[exxxed]

@BullTheDozer.

This is a good post based on conjecture and speculation I'm afraid but I agree with the sentiment behind it.

CDPR should have been clear about the shortcomings on the first generation PS4 and Xbox One and should have delayed that release while also making sure it was more stable across the board.

The point is, cleverly disguised tricks to sell the game, that's marketing, it's everywhere and it's been like that since forever, their job is to prey on consumer's lack of research and abstinence, it's what drives the economy in the capitalist era.

I don't understand why people are so shocked about a bombastic marketing campaign... everything they mentioned in the trailers are present in the game almost verbatim, yes they made it seem like it was all this, that and the other because... it's made to leave an impression, it's why nothing is advertised as having average features ... ever.

 

[Latatun]

It was a calculated risk, of that I've no doubt. And CDPR weren't wrong either by the looks of it: the game's a commercial success (taking into account the refunds). This's not an AC: Unity (or any other flop from a different AAA company basically) case, the community is pretty divided oscilating between the game is pure shit to it's a masterpiece and somewhere in between.

I just can't believe they could even think of April as a possible release date and, on top of it, daring to say that they were working on polishing the game at the time, when the reality is the game was still in shambles (even though it was playable from start to finish in 2018, and then in 2019, its genre changed quietly). And the "gold version" on consoles is laughably bad and, on any platform, a mess in general. Or seasoned developers abandoning ship in the middle of the development process...

And I agree with the idea that this is the whole game, too late for an EA akin to BGIII. While I think they're half-baked or redundant (the apartments...), the core systems are there like loot, shooting, cyberware, braindance, you name it, as well as the complete story (well, the endings give me the feeling they're going to pull a PoP 2008). That's why I have 0 expectations. Bug fixes? Certainly, they still need to put the game back on consoles' marketplace. But anything else is just wishful thinking, moreso given the apology video and the "9s and 10s". At this point, all I can do is stop supporting them as I'm pretty disappointed and I was being lied to.

When it's ready...

 

[exxxed]

I just can't believe they could even think of April as a possible release date and, on top of it, daring to say that they were working on polishing the game at the time,

''We just submitted @cyberpunkgameto age rating agencies around the world (PEGI, ESRB, etc.). While we wait for the game to get rated, we work on polishing technical aspects and playtesting it. Game is looking better and better with each passing day! ''

Um yeah, seems fine to me I don't see a problem with this statement, what would you expect them to say?

''The game is in shambles, it runs terribly, the physics are broken due to the high quantity of asset streaming and we're struggling to adapt the current iteration on the first gen PS4 and XBox One, and as a result we had to dial back the complexity of some features like police pursuit and pedestrian and traffic AI. But we're all fine, thanks for asking, how are you?''

But I digress and I actually agree with you, The April release date was unrealistic and it seems to me that they agreed by delaying it until September.

when the reality is the game was still in shambles (even though it was playable from start to finish in 2018

''but it seems an incomplete version is now playable from start to finish. '' What's so hard to believe.

Here's another snippet from the article:

"'As reported by Engadget (via IGN), the game's producer Richard Borzymowski says this playable build is without final assets and is yet to be playtested. But after six years of work, a long spell of silence, and a flurry of excitement and anticipation, this marks a milestone in its development. ''

Even if it might have been playable, the dialogue was not recorded nor were any of the features fully realized but they probably had the white box phase finished with all the scripted interactions that were later to be fleshed out with animations and dialogue.

It's called iterating.

 

[Latatun]

Obviously not. Just don't say anything apart from what it's necessary, really. The only honest thing I think they did was changing the description of the game. In March, they were polishing and testing. In December, the game is a mess even with the day one patch. Something doesn't quite fit here if you ask me.

And it's funny that you chose that quote, "6 years of work"... Weren't 4 years in the end? It's lie after lie. Maybe I'm just bitter and I cannot see past it anymore though.

 

[exxxed]

Obviously not. Just don't say anything apart from what it's necessary, really. The only honest thing I think they did was changing the description of the game. In March, they were polishing and testing. In December, the game is a mess even with the day one patch. Something doesn't quite fit here if you ask me.

I agree with the lack of clear communication from studios, media, marketing and everything that has to do with videogames advertisement, we all need to grow up, and they need to stop treating us as children when they're trying to sell us a project.

And I hope people apply the same scrutiny they applied to CDPR to every studio and every release from here onwards, but they wont, and as long as the game is perceivably fine everyone will go back to being oblivious about the shortcomings of this industry in terms of maturity from both users and publishers/devs.

And it's funny that you chose that quote, "6 years of work"... Weren't 4 years in the end? It's lie after lie. Maybe I'm just bitter and I cannot see past it anymore though.

Pre-production is considered as development internally.

I believe full production started at the end of Blood and Wine, game development is not always a linear process.

 

[Latatun]

Yep, but it's not the same "6 years of work and now it's finally playable" than "2 years of actual development and now it's finally playable" (and not sure if Keanu was already in the picture). If people defend the game with the 4 years reason, this case shouldn't be different either: it was as misleading as the trailers from my point of view. And I get it, they're not going to say that. But they already run their mouths too much that in retrospect...

And I mean, I agree with the first part. But not gonna lie: I don't think I will care that much about other companies because I was genuinely excited for an RPG with this aesthetic. And that's quite rare in my case. I'd also throw in that I hope we stop treating gaming companies like buddies as well.

 

[exxxed]

I don't know, at some point we just have to accept that not one thing exists that pleases everybody and it's a real shame since the game has a much greater value than the sum of it's parts, but due to the narrative surrounding the mass outrage going on at the moment some people will never be able to approach it with an open mind.

And it's a real shame, because it's an experience to be had.

I'm firmly in the camp that says that if the game didn't have the technical flaws that it has at the moment the narrative surrounding it would have been quite different, the problem is CDPR was never clear about the state of the game on first gen PS4 and XBox One or the general stability issues with the game, which spun this amazingly elaborate conspiracy that this game was never the one intended to be developed and everything was misleading, more than half the game was cut in production etc.

Which is absurd, the game they showed in the promotional materials is more or less the game we're playing now.

 

[Geommander]

In the meanwhile, in an alternative CP2077 universe:

''The game is in shambles, it runs terribly, the physics are broken due to the high quantity of asset streaming and we're struggling to adapt the current iteration on the first gen PS4 and XBox One, and as a result we had to dial back the complexity of some features like police pursuit and pedestrian and traffic AI. But we're all fine, thanks for asking, how are you?''

"Wow, boss, look at all these re-posts and interactions. Boss, I think I made some serious noise there. Proud of me?", the PR manager was smiling from ear to ear.
The CEO sat expressionless. "Hohumm..." she said and calmly brought out a Malorian Overture from under the desk, directed it to the poor sod sitting there smiling, not even having time to consider running...
BOOM!
Thudd...
"Hello, cleaning service? Yeah, I know this is the second time within a month, I will adjust my contribution, just make sure to be here in 5 minutes"...