This is a barebones RPG. Someone had to say it.

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but i do see what you mean about Maxtac playing a bigger role, alot of other people expected this aswell, ill go back over the initial post and if i didnt mention it, ill add it for sure.

There should be scenes of the trauma team arriving on crime scene once in a while.. or the Maxtac arriving from the flying APC when gangs and police having a shootout.

Also, the respawn of enemies is too fast making it super unrealistic. I just cleared the area and went to a shop nearby... And then... "Surprise we are back!!"
 
All of them are usually described as "action role-playing game" in various media. Devs might have a different definition of RPG from yours, so it doesn't make them liars on this basis alone. Doesn't mean they didn't over-promise, but it's not really the question of "RPG or not RPG".
i can appreciate that and do agree. this game is an RPG but as my thread title suggests, its a barebones one at best.
But over-promise? most certainly.
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There should be scenes of the trauma team arriving on crime scene once in a while.. or the Maxtac arriving from the flying APC when gangs and police having a shootout.

Also, the respawn of enemies is too fast making it super unrealistic. I just cleared the area and went to a shop nearby... And then... "Surprise we are back!!"
yeah it was a shame to see them just already appearing and being on the scene. nothing of any AV's actually landing in the street. i mean i know that would probably take a little work but would be cool no doubt

But yeah AI in general is just..... ugh
 
Very true and will look into it.

for what its worth the devs made an open pole asking if the public wanted mod support. over 95% said yes. here is hoping
Why would they even need to ask? lol In what universe would players ask for no customization?
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To be honest, I could easily excuse the lack of player agency on the main story or the limited outcomes. The witcher 2 had basically 2 different linear stories side by side and that was it. But it is still one of my favourite games. Because of immersion. And because the story is good.
I love to go back to just run around in the world, to just hang out in Flotsam for the atmosphere.

The thing is, after finishing one of the endings. It just killed all my motivation to go back to Night City and explore. The story left a very bitter taste in my mouth that made playing my character very... painful.. depressing? unsatisfying? I don't know, but the fact that I don't even get to play my character in the city -After- the story... just feels wrong.

And there are simply not enough interesting/immersive activities in the city to be able to come over that feeling of dissatisfaction.
 
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Why would they even need to ask? lol In what universe would players ask for no customization?
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To be honest, I could easily excuse the lack of player agency on the main story or the limited outcomes. The witcher 2 had basically 2 different linear stories side by side and that was it. But it is still one of my favourite games. Because of immersion. And because the story is good.
I love to go back to just run around in the world, to just hang out in Flotsam for the atmosphere.

The thing is, after finishing one of the endings. It just killed all my motivation to go back to Night City and explore. The story left a very bitter taste in my mouth that made playing my character very... painful.. depressing? unsatisfying? I don't know, but the fact that I don't even get to play my character in the city -After- the story... just feels wrong.

And there are simply not enough interesting/immersive activities in the city to be able to come over that feeling of dissatisfaction.
yeah i absolutely understand what you mean about the endings. 100%. And CDPR claimed they found an interesting way for players to keep playing at the end of the game... ok
 
People are asking for too much from this game. Noone threating it like deeper Human revolution with open world. Surprised people compare cp 2077 with all kinds of games with ancient low objects count non vertival settings, rather than deus ex. From this point of view cdpr already done good job.

Imo fantasy non futuristic enviroment much more convinient for rpgs. Graphics technology also plays huge role. These 2 things simplify everything 10 times. No surprise me and many other people consider fallout, baldurs gate best RPGs in history. How come these games are very outdated, but even with back in day recources developers managed to craft golden standards of good RPGs? Answer is very simple. Tech side of games jumped like a everest distance up. All gameplay, storyline, design are bound to technology. You can't just simply write thank you from NCPD officer in dialog window in 2020. You need facial animation, voiceover, ai etc.
Thats why the perfect rpg much more likely in isometric text form in ancient setting than in 1st person 3d futuristic one.

People are only asking for what was promised. This game is was supposed to be a big budget game changer and it's easily the buggiest and most disappointing thing to come out since the first playstation launched, and that's after they delayed it. They released it like this knowing it was like this, and then cut content after launch. They failed to deliver on every single aspect they promised and are now facing the consequences with refunds.
 
Why would they even need to ask? lol In what universe would players ask for no customization?
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To be honest, I could easily excuse the lack of player agency on the main story or the limited outcomes. The witcher 2 had basically 2 different linear stories side by side and that was it. But it is still one of my favourite games. Because of immersion. And because the story is good.
I love to go back to just run around in the world, to just hang out in Flotsam for the atmosphere.

The thing is, after finishing one of the endings. It just killed all my motivation to go back to Night City and explore. The story left a very bitter taste in my mouth that made playing my character very... painful.. depressing? unsatisfying? I don't know, but the fact that I don't even get to play my character in the city -After- the story... just feels wrong.

And there are simply not enough interesting/immersive activities in the city to be able to come over that feeling of dissatisfaction.

I think that's a big thing they oversold on. Even putting bugs and performance issues aside, putting other little nuances aside, the fact that neither the main or side story had a lot of branching paths, nor are there a lot of interactive dynamic systems and elements in the game world itself ultimately gives me little incentive to play the game more than a single time, maybe a second if I REALLY want to make one different decision and maybe have a vastly different character build.

I went Nomad/femaleV in my first playthrough and Im mostly a cool/reflex build with some tech/int on the side.
IF I replay the game (probably won't happen before the bugs aren't ironed out and maybe they added some stuff) Im going maleV, with a different romance option and probably body/tech (with possibly reflex on the side).

But even in that regard skill trees feel constructed in a way that there are just not this many options. The fact that many things (i.e. pistols, ARs and Swords) are grouped in the same overall skill makes it hard to really go for interesting or specific builds cause they are all a bit too connected, so even if I want to go brawler/katana Id have to invest in 2 core stats for that alone, leaving out all the things that give me accessibility to the world (such as INT/TECH).

Anyway TLDR: They oversold the replayability of the game, cut a lot of features or forgot them and don't have a ton of branching story choices, so it doesn't really give you much of a reason to replay or play past the main story cause after that the world is basically an empty shell, which is the very issue that the OP highlighted in this thread.
 
Came here to say most of this.
Currently my biggest disappointments are:

1. Police system is horrific. Would have loved to actually experience encountering(and likely fleeing from) a full, flying MaxTac response to me slaughtering citizens. Instead just spawns in.

2. No cutscenes for new implants. Just a menu. Really takes me out of the immersion.

3. Scores for breaking through locked doors are way too low. Found a door that required 3 Body. So ordinary people can just rip the door open. If you want the check to be "easy", at least make it require 4.

4. Opening doors with Technical has no animation. I was expecting Body doors to be fast and noisy, and Technical doors to be slow but silent. Instead they are virtually identical. And most doors that can be breached should be breach-able with both, even if the scores are different. Literally no reason a 20 Body Gorilla Arms guy can't just rip the door open, but a 3 Technical beginner can short out the security and get in.

Not even gonna try to get into the big disappointments.
 
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I'm not that far into the game but I am already coming to the conclusion that this game is a FPS with optional side-quests, a level-up system and little else. I mean, at the very least there could be factions with consequences, alliances and betrayals but nope... Nothing you do seems to make any difference. This is no RPG and barely even an "adventure" since all you can do is shoot, click though dialogue and progress the story. As already mentioned, it is in all honesty, an interactive cinematic experience - great visuals, great sound, interesting story, the end.

I believe that we were promised far more than we got, that NPCs would react to your choices; that they would have "life" and "purpose" but they don't.

The more I play, the more I am disappointed and I genuinely don't see how over the course of the next three patches, that they can or will fix this. Fixing these problems is definitely in the realm of DLC updates and the issues are so problematic, so fundamental that they would take years to develop.

I really agree with some of the posts here: their best option is to open up modding capabilities, release a tool-set and allow the community to step in and correct the problems.
 
I'm not that far into the game but I am already coming to the conclusion that this game is a FPS with optional side-quests, a level-up system and little else. I mean, at the very least there could be factions with consequences, alliances and betrayals but nope... Nothing you do seems to make any difference. This is no RPG and barely even an "adventure" since all you can do is shoot, click though dialogue and progress the story. As already mentioned, it is in all honesty, an interactive cinematic experience - great visuals, great sound, interesting story, the end.

I believe that we were promised far more than we got, that NPCs would react to your choices; that they would have "life" and "purpose" but they don't.

The more I play, the more I am disappointed and I genuinely don't see how over the course of the next three patches, that they can or will fix this. Fixing these problems is definitely in the realm of DLC updates and the issues are so problematic, so fundamental that they would take years to develop.

I really agree with some of the posts here: their best option is to open up modding capabilities, release a tool-set and allow the community to step in and correct the problems.
At one point decided not to kill any tyger claw members because I recalled that Wakako was affiliated with them. And I really liked her charater. But soon enough I realised that it literally makes no difference if you kill any random gang members from any gang.
It doesn't impact gameplay or story in any ways.
 
BTW. Seriously, when i visited V's apartment for the first time and went to sleep and watched this animation of going to bed, i had this tiny blink of strange feeling in the back of my head that "we might have a problem here, cap'n". Then it was like "wow...the City...oh my god....WOW". Unfortunately after a while the disappointment on a regular pace from the, some will say, little unimportant things has started. Before i've noticed there were more and more of those little unimportant things and they started to pile up. I had enough when the game started literally, in real words, promising me something and immediately after that failing to deliver. I said: Ok, lets wait for a few months just to see if they will try to squeeze a game they had talked about all the time from this Placeholderpunk2020, like Hello Games did with NMS, or they will leave it in the present state of sloppy, castrated, low quality techdemo. And someone have to say it: These are not the easy repairable bugs or low frames on some ancient, obsolete consoles or PCs that trouble Cyberpunk2077.
 
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At one point decided not to kill any tyger claw members because I recalled that Wakako was affiliated with them. And I really liked her charater. But soon enough I realised that it literally makes no difference if you kill any random gang members from any gang.
It doesn't impact gameplay or story in any ways.

Yea those are glaring oversights or big cuts to the meat of the game imo. I can kill any gang-member, I can betray Maelstrom or help them at the start. It doesnt really matter beyond "person X doesnt get what they wanted". No friendly, neutral or hostile gang relations, hell not even Street Cred does anything. In the beginning Street Cred was hyped up as this thing that you can gain all kinds of benefits with and get respect from people. In the end its just a glorified level gate that locks you out of certain quests or restricts the use/purchase of certain items until you did more missions and gained more Street Cred. Doesnt feel RPG, feels more just like grind-requirements.
 
I recall someone before launch said "not worried, bugs can be fixed, bad gameplay design cannot". And we were all in the train with that, considering gameplay design as cemented because cmon...it's CDPR.
Man....we were wrong...
I have 0 hope game mechanics will improve. That would require a rewrite of the game, and it's not gonna happen.
That is so true and sooo sad...
 
I agree with all you said but you forgot 1 thing.

Vehicle customization and a garage.

Okay if no vehicle customization then let us have a garage, I mean they let us buy cars and stuff but where do they go? When being stored?

Garage function would let you summon stolen cars after buying the one you from fixers.

Like i love the kusanagi and caliburn but i don't really like the colour. I want that sweet jet black kusanagi or that Silver black Caliburn with purple highlights let me steal it and take it to my garage lol.
 
I agree with all you said but you forgot 1 thing.

Vehicle customization and a garage.

Okay if no vehicle customization then let us have a garage, I mean they let us buy cars and stuff but where do they go? When being stored?

Garage function would let you summon stolen cars after buying the one you from fixers.

Like i love the kusanagi and caliburn but i don't really like the colour. I want that sweet jet black kusanagi or that Silver black Caliburn with purple highlights let me steal it and take it to my garage lol.
But that would remove the grind for eddies and shorten the lifespan of the game! We cant have that can we? :)
 
A lot of the missing stuff in OP is obviously so theye can re-introduce it later as free DLC for marketing hype(I.e; W3). Things like more finishers, tatoo\hair parlours, cloth\weapon coloring etc. Free DLC's aren't free, they're content designed to be added later for marketing hype(that was\is planned for the original game), especially since alternative NPC costumes weren't that popular with W3.


With that said, they obviously didn't go Quality over quantity in the romance... Hell the romance is worse than most Bioware games(and Bioware has shit romance)... If anything truly dissapointed me, it's how shit they did romance(Lost opportunity of making it meaningful). Best romance is still found in old Japanese games(like Bravesoul), or Expeditions: Viking(Probably best western made Romance). While no animation, the text conveyed in E:V is miles above anything in CP2077(simple things, like hand holding during a wedding makes such a gigantic difference in selling that it's a 'romance\relationship', and not a one night stand).


This was\is the issue with Bioware, that except for direct NPC dialogue, and the sex scene(which essentially concludes the romance), there's 0 indication you're in a romantic relationship.All dialogue and quests are handled the same. Something as simple as having your partner look at you and smile while someone else is talking(or you), just makes all the difference. Small, but significant. Bioware(and CP2077) have none of this...



To not get me started on the quests... Anyone in hopes that CP2077 will be 'fixed later' is dellusional. The issue is in quest design. Only the main missions are worthwhile, the side missions are worse than Ultima 4... Because in Ultima 4, you had to 1: Meet the quest giver and 2: Return to them. For CP2077 they clearly perfected this, by removing the quest giver completely!

To fix this game, they'd need to sit down, and remake the majority of side quests(and main story quests) to make multiple-choice variants, with consequences. They aren't going to remake the game... Best we can hope for, is an DLC that takes place long after(or long before) the main quest, and is how the main game should've been.


This game should've been like Deus ex(original). Linear, but semi open sections. Not because I'd prefer that(I wouldn't). but because this game was clearly designed with linearity in mind.


I expecting nothing more, than W2\3 levels of quality. That's not CP2077, it's a far lesser experience than even W1...CDPR is the new Bethesda(which I've been waiting to happen, because I've been here, in this exact position with them as well, back when Oblivion released), if CDPRs next game releases, and is equal to, or worse than CP2077(in term of features, game design, etc, a.k.a; Far removed from what made them a popular studio). What I mean is this: 1: Bugs, this is as broken(if not more) as Oblivion was, and 2: Threw out it's core audience(PC) in hopes of a new audience(consoles), though in this case, there is no new audience to get(over half of the sales were for PC! PC is the new audience for CDPR...).
 
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If I have to point out what is the most disappointing about open world RPG elements... is how bad usualy are side missions in comparison to The Witcher 3. I almost never care what I am doing.

In the Witcher you can find random guy standing somewhere and he will talk you to death with ton of dialogue about something from hes life. It adds layer of "why should I care".
How it works in Cyberpunk ? Go to location - Regina Jones ( or other Fixer ) automaticaly calls you and explains in two sentences what need to be done. You doing it - Eddies\Exp\Street Cred boost, DONE. If you don't read datapads at those locations, sometimes you wont even know what that was really about.

Main NPC's and dialogues are 10/10, but everything else ? only so so. It's utterly shocking how someone could think this is enough open world flavour for an RPG.

Sometimes it really feels like I am playing Far Cry - or what I like to call Ubisoft games " The POI explorer ". Just the worst.
 
It is even funnier when someone said Cyberpunk 2077 is truly immersive open world RPG.. (not sarcastically)

I think this is the first open world RPG they ever played... or maybe they just love looter shooter genre..

This game is missing like 90% basic requirements of open world RPG, and ironically made by "The industry leader in role-playing games"

Feel so bad for those who worked so hard but ruined by top level management
 
Now as someone who only based my expectations off things that were shown in the gameplay trailers as actual possible gameplay options/possibilities, the game is fine. I have around 50 hours. This post is NOT about the technical/performance issues. that deserves its own thread and there is plenty of them.
But Lets face it, this is not the RPG a lot of us hoped for. it appears that a lot has been removed and the world interactivity and AI just feels bland.
I have been somewhat a fanboy over the last few months and had very strong faith in CDPR, but I'm certainly not a blind follower... This game has let me and a lot of others down in the RPG side of things. They either got overwhelmed with their original plan and scrapped elements to make the date, or its due to them settling for a more cinematic experience halfway through and went with the "Action/Adventure" tag that it is now touted as.

Feel free to add anything else that I've missed or that other games (some over a decade old) have done or done better.
I don't believe these are ridiculous requests or expectations for and RPG
  • Character creation = Huge let down. don't deny it. and this isn't even me having huge expectations. Basic RPGs have had greater variety. No body sliders even JUST for things like making your character thinner, fatter or more jacked? I mean c'mon. Even GTA SA let you get jacked. it seems like they really focused on trivial things to build hype(looking at you genital customisation), rather than meaningful stuff that really lets you make your character an individual and like yourself.
  • Where is the consequence to decisions? the life paths practically converge into the same story, and most quests end the same/similar way to if you load back and go with different choices/dialogue options. i feel literally no weight in my decisions and dont feel like i need to think before making one.
  • Which brings me to missions not having Variable outcomes/very similar endings. it seems as though the Maelstrom mission with an apparent "7 different outcomes" was the only of this nature and was made simply as marketing hype to say "our game is an RPG and missions have different endings!!" i mean Deus Ex excelled in this regard. i actually had to think about how i executed the mission as it may bite me in the behind down the track.
  • Getting new Cyberware is Severely underwhelming. Changing out bodyparts and literally giving up parts of your humanity and body is like swapping out a mod on a gun. *click* and thats it, only cutscenes we got were for the Palm and eye upgrades which were part of the story. Cmon, not even a small cut scene that then fades to black?
  • Street Cred means nothing but more to buy. there is no reaction to your supposed legendary status in the game world. gangs still shoot you on site when they should be terrified of you in a John Wick kind of way. Skyrim, Fallout and Mass Effect NPC's react accordingly if youre a good or bad person, accomplished certain legendary feats/quests etc. you truly make a name for yourself in those games.
  • No lore friendly/interactive Fast travel? god even just being able to walk onto the trains and keeping it basic would have been nice.
  • No Barber? No Tattoo parlour? Give me a break. No change to your character after leaving the character creation is a joke. for a game that is all about creating your own merc and body modding being so prevalent in NC, it does not feel that way.
  • No colour modding of your clothing. Found a cool Trench coat? No worries! but you've gotta have it in Fluro pink!!!
  • No Finishers/animations in combat??? it has really cool things like the ground cracking when you fall from height (really cool but buggy too) but cant add finishers to combat? only ones I've seen is 2 with Katana and JUST 1 with Mantis blades and that is it. Skyrim, The Chronicles of Riddick (Old AF now) even The Witcher 3 had combat finishers with Weapons and hand to hand combat. especially with Melee and hand to hand combat being such a big thing, you'd think they'd have added this
  • Where are the mini-games? Wheres the BD's? its a story continuation tool and thats it. i mean what happened to going into a bar and doing some cool mini activities those kinds of places?
  • The "wait" function does nothing but change the position of the sun lmao. actually try it. nothing changes in front of you or in the world full stop, it just moves the sun and lets you start a mission a tad sooner.
  • Cluttered Mini-map and general world map that strait up gives you everything without barely needing to explore to clear map fog and show whats there. this comes across as an attempt to hide the fact the city is not interactive and CDPR don't trust their game enough to keep you interacting with the world if you take attention away from standard missions.
  • Where is the Adult content? there are barely any options for Joy toys (abysmal tb), no drugs? i dont need this stuff but the option is nice and adds to the atmosphere.
  • The absolute lack of romance options, it seems they went for quality over quantity perhaps but cmon, Dragon Age, Mass effect etc had more. truly disappointing
  • You cant interact with people aside from the Vendors, you cant even sit down at a chair and take in the world? NOTHING is interactive.
  • Key Bindings are a disgrace. I'm sure most of you already know this. how many times have you ruined stealth because of that dodge mechanic?
  • Dynamic world my a**. Mass numbers of NPC’s doesn’t make your world alive. Having them do unique things and responding to the world accordingly does. No ambulance for the injured, no fire trucks for fires, Police... don’t even get me started on the disgrace that is the Police AI.
    They specifically stated in the 48 minute deep dive there would be a silly amount (cant remember the number but was close to 1000) of Hand crafted daily routines for these NPC's. There is not.
  • No police chases? Police Spawning out of thin air? Maxtac spawn out of thin air with No AV's like the teaser? again dont get me started on the Police system, my god how embarrassing.
  • NPC’s in general just don’t react to you accordingly Depending on what you do. shoot in an Open area? no worries! everyone crouch!. It really does seem like CDPR really settled on having quantity of NPC’s over quality. I’d turn down the NPC crowd density in an instant if it meant greater variety and enabled better AI for more a more “alive” city.
  • Police rarely say thank you for intervening and SAVING their lives in gang shootings.
  • No karma/good & bad system, meaning a lot of choices mean Jack all especially when it comes to the way NPC's react to you i mean even Fallout characters reacted to you accordingly if you were a bad guy. Your characters “character” is borderline predetermined
  • The clothing system is broken. Cowboy hates, Short denim shorts and Corset's end up being your best armour, while an Arasaka bullet proof vest is useless. Really takes you out of the world.
    Yes I know you can upgrade clothing to keep the stuff you want to be the best, but some Transmog would be nice
  • Gear has no levels? I'm sorry but have i missed something? unless you are under the required level you cant see what level the gear actually is and its super annoying. it would be nice to be able to just take a glance at something and see if its a lower level and Bam scrapped.
  • Cant pick up thrown knives.... god man..
As I said, I have around 50 hours now and enjoy it. But if I were expecting it to be the RPG and "Truly special game" that CDPR claimed they had... boy am I disappointed. It seems they got caught up in their own hype and thought "omg the public is going insane over rumoured Genital customisation put that in put that in!" but forgot that you still need the basics. I'm sorry but this game doesn't really do anything new.

Honestly it seems the Mini-map (and larger world map) is cluttered with random quests and icons just to distract the player from the fact the world feels empty of anything other than set missions (that any game has in open worlds). most games dont show these until you're close to them and sometimes even fog out the map. but all this seems like an attempt to simply over saturate the players sense and give the illusion of content.

There are a lot more immersion breaking and disappointing mechanics I just cant be bothered to list but honestly the game truly does seem half baked and unfinished. It reeks of placeholders and things that have been cut last minute to make the game playable for release. Somewhere along the lines things changed from RPG to "Action/Adventure" and it was seriously streamlined. And don't be fooled, this has hurt it badly. Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas, Skyrim and Mass effect remain untouched as immersive RPG's at this stage in MY OPINION.
Cheers
whats barebones lol sounds like you some kind of perv saying that
 
Dynamic world my a**
Feels like it was, but ended up static as that was a non priority to at least get the game into the state that it is now. Which is pretty bad, so no surprise this was lost.

The world is not dynamic its static. Park a car on the road, others wont drive around it. They'll just stay there with 0 reaction. I swear I remember a PS2 game that had cars drive around obstacles on the road and weren't just on rails like in CP2077. I mean they're on such rails that there's a road where cars just drive into and through a wall. Breaking and exploding as they do so because the "rail" they drive on wasn't adjusted.

I've had cars straight up despawn after I crashed into them and moved them too far off the road. Heck Ive seen cars just randomly despawn for no reason.

All the issues with the game are just straight up caused by the game needing another year or two in development. Whoever decided the release date was so horribly, horribly off. Covid was a perfect excuse to move the game a lot further back.
 
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