This isn't about forgiveness and it's not just broken on consoles.

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Forgivable mistake? Who cares.

I don't confuse this kind of thing with some sort of morality trial.

Note I'm talking about managment here, not the actual developers who did the actual work.

I'm sure the suits are nice guys and I have no problem forgiving people no matter what they did. Well, almost.

They lied and very deliberately deceived consumers, and that's something they're going to have to deal with on their own - I'm not a judge.

However, if managment is incompetent on this level - and they overtly and willfully pushed out this game in this state, then they're simply not competent to do their jobs. Meaning, I will never - ever - trust their ability to deliver a great game again.

They utterly destroyed what Cyberpunk should have been - regardless of whether or not they fix and improve it. There's no escaping what this launch will cost them - and that's a bad reputation they will never entirely recover from.

It also means years of work from hundreds of talented developers will never get the positive response it deserves, because no one will go out of their way to thank them for fixing what's broken. Also, this isn't at all about consoles exclusively.

Sure, it runs much better on high-end PC hardware - but it has a huge amount of issues - even after the first couple of patches (day 1 patch and 1.04 hotfix). Balance is utterly atrocious with all playstyles (I know, because I have tried 3 separate builds and there's zero challenge on Very Hard if you build your character even remotely informed) - and NPCs can't respond effectively to the player when being hacked, shot through walls or any kind of distant stealth attack.

Same goes for the Police and the Pedestrain "AI" systems (no pun intended) - both of which are so far behind the times, I can barely understand how it's even possible in 2020. It's almost as if they tried to make it as bad as possible for kicks.

They hyped this game for years - and have entirely failed to deliver what they promised. You can find several articles, some of which are fairly recent - full of overt lies and exaggerations as to what this game will have at release.

Morally reprehensible? Sure, I guess. I don't care.

But in very pragmatic terms, it means they're liars and they're not competent when it comes to delivering upon a promise. As such, I have zero faith in them from now on. I have no tolerance for this level of incompetence and deception - and there is no excuse.
 
Yep, management is at fault here. The devs probably wanted way more time to fix bugs and test out the game, but CDPR couldn't resist those sweet green bills before Christmas. It's clear that after three delays, one of which was right after the game went gold, the game was no where near completed. I can't imagine how exhausted the devs must feel right now, especially after releasing the game in it's current state.

It's nice that some people are enjoying the game right now, and more power to them! But for the rest of us, this is just flat out disappointing. Shame that a company that was against greed, falls victim to it.
 
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I think this tweet is fitting perfectly here.
 
Greed and the overblown W3 success went to their heads. Managment probably found themselves subject to the illusion that they could do no wrong.

Part of that is arguably on the consumers, because a LOT of gamers and critics forgave a LOT of gameplay concessions and problems in Witcher 3. Don't get me started on terrible balance, zero crime system, poor itemization and dull progression systems.

For whatever reason, when a story is great and the visuals are strong - (many) people are able to ignore the game part of games.

But Cyberpunk might be the very lesson the suits needed after their stint with giant heads and egos.

However, human nature would suggest that they will probably come up with some sort of delusional reaction, involving them being innocent in all of this.

I feel so bad for the actual developers - because it's their work largely wasted here. This game COULD have been the smashing critical success we all hoped for - with another 6-12 months in development.

Of course, based on various plausible rumors of terrible working conditions and destructive behaviour from upper management during development (apparently pitting old and new developers against each other in some kind of sick internal development competition) - this wasn't just about development time. It's clear that the vision of the game was blurry and never manifested properly in time to have it all come together.

This was more about eyes veiled by dollar signs and big dreams - and less about almost making it.
 
Yeah I've also spoken fairly heavily on the reasons for why people are mad. There's layers upon layers to the outrage with there being more to it than just the game itself in a vacuum.

As an example:
 
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I think this tweet is fitting perfectly here.
This aged real badly didn't it ? Right now the witcher far surpass cyberpunk for me, its way more fleshed out in its world, worldbuilding and characters. Cyberpunk is hardly an RPG, it is GTA with decision making and a skill tree, hell even GTA was better in some ways. the one thing it was supposed to do very well story and writing, it doesn't compete with the witcher in. The gameplay itself I enjoyed despite imbalances, but the lack of good sustantive side content, far too short and linear main story is what really annoys me. Bugs can be fixed but core issues such as writing is not so easy to fix.
 
Exactly OP. I don't mind engaging in a little fantasy like everyone else and celebrating a corporation that does good by me in terms of providing a good product which the only thing I want from them but I have no allusions that a corporation is gonna be there for me when my dog dies. If CDPR wants to do the whole "for the gamers" schtick then go for it, as long they're actually keeping up that illusion to a reasonable degree I'm more than happy to play along and put money in their pockets in exchange for said good product.

Pissing on me and telling me its raining is an entirely different story however. You'd be better off going with mom jokes.

EDIT: Also MGMT didn't code the game, a lot of the code is absolute trash. The devs share responsibility.
 
For whatever reason, when a story is great and the visuals are strong - (many) people are able to ignore the game part of games.
I'd argue that if the game is story-focused, then that IS enough.

And it's really bizarre, because CP77 wasn't that far from being a decent game meeting expectation. I'm using past tense because at THIS point, with what we got it's difficult to say how much they need to do to get back the goodwill of customers.

What's missing, and what would make the game very liked (beyond performance issues and bugs):
1) Some clearly missing mechanics to bring the city alive - barber shops, food stalls, a working police system. Throw in some cosmetic cyberware to boot for the player.
2) Slightly better civilian AI - the game really didn't need to be GTA-level when it comes to AI, but at the moment any interaction with AI brings down the whole illusion of an immersive world.
3) The biggest one (which is unfixable at this point): a story on par with TW3. There are certainly some gems in CP77, but the main campaign and the way it's structured is just... odd. There's a HUGE thread on these forums in the "story" section pointing out all the flaws. Biggest of which is making all of the endings low-note. Seriously, not a single one ending on a high-note is just going to make people miserable, and miserable people aren't as likely to forgive flaws as happy people.

The first two points can still be added with patches and could have been added with a few more months of development time. But the 3rd point is what, I feel, hurts the most. Like - the people who don't get scared off by the bugs, glitches, lack of optimization... they're going to get an emotional punch in the gut... and when they find out that there's NOTHING they can do to make the ending better (which you might realistically expect from a game "like TW3"), then... yeah, salt will flow.

EDIT: Also MGMT didn't code the game, a lot of the code is absolute trash. The devs share responsibility.
Now now... unless you have decompiled the code and know what's in there, there's no point bashing the devs. The game was clearly rushed, so THIS kind of criticism is unwarranted.
 
I try to imagine what developers do differently when you have two hours to do your part of the work, you thousands of kilometers away from the person who asks you for this service or the office you worked for, you, at home, closed ... without any help of others to correct any mistakes ... and those two hours there, passing quickly on the clock ... your cell phone ringing with messages, we only have two hours, check it, go faster, it's your job at stake ...

How easy it is to talk on the internet, how easy it was to say anything and go around like an ornamented butterfly ...

The internet accepts any 'theory', but the vast majority are unable (and have no competence) to put themselves in the 'other's place', have a minimum of sympathy for the 'other' who has only those only two hours or their life will change forever, you won't even get a Christmas bonus ...

The internet is venal, the internet is frivolous ...
 
Now now... unless you have decompiled the code and know what's in there, there's no point bashing the devs. The game was clearly rushed, so THIS kind of criticism is unwarranted.
Saying that the dev's share in the responsibility isn't what I would call bashing them but to each their own and all that.
 
You'd have to be a god to write code for a game as complex as Cyberpunk and have it be bugfree with a rushed launch.

Now, we have absolutely no idea what the code is - or who worked on it. It could be the worst code in the history of the universe.

But we do know that the game was rushed - with absolute certainty.

We also know with absolute certainty that it's management and NOT developers who make that kind of call.

So, there's zero evidence to support bashing the developers - and plenty of evidence to support bashing management.

Not that I want to or enjoy bashing. I enjoy great and immersive games.

Sadly, I didn't get what was advertised or what I paid for in this case.
 
Well i guess its safe to say Witcher will stay Legend :beer:
True, but it apparently was just a fluke... compared to CP and all it's short comings, one can only think that, for some reason, CDPR lost a GREAT deal of skill and competence since TW3's development... somehow.

Remember, this thing was supposed to be "genre defining", and yet, taken on it's own, almost no single aspect of the game is superior to what comparable titles did years ago... most of it is worse, actually.
 
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In aviation, we learn something, 'an accident, whether it is the pilot's responsibility or not, never happens for a simple reason, but several reasons'.

This expression is used in civil aviation. The same occurred, in my view, with the game. And that goes from decisions by executives, investors, even commercial partners, nvidia, microsoft, sony.

It is known that the latest cards from nvidia and the latest technologies, are presenting problems and serious. There is a video I posted on topic 1.05 *. Ray Tracing has never been improved on these latest boards, until today, to give you an idea. PS5 is far from its final version ... but they are selling the product ... and so on ...

A game of this magnitude, with everything and everyone involved, does not suffer what it suffers for a simple reason, even if clumsy. And, in my view, the pressure was not borne by the heads (and pockets) only of those responsible for the CD ... it is something much greater. And I don't look at it as merit or demerit or 'good or bad' ...

I know that everyone suffers the consequences, including executives, wherever they go.
 
Its funny to see so many people here mention greed when you should be grateful that there is finally an RPG that does not try to screw you over with countless micro-transactions that would bring the cost of the game into the hundreds of $$$. It is so refreshing to have a single player game that has a ton of customisation and progression options solely based on gameplay and not miro-transactions and gambling mechanics.

Having said that, I fully agree that CDPR massively screwed up with the absolutely botched release that should see heads roll from upper management that signed off on this disaster, especially when it comes to the downright criminal console release after saying it runs perfectly fine just days before release and not providing any review copies.
It is really disappointing to see CDPR so utterly destroy their reputation and make what should have been a spectacular game launch into a complete disaster.

As for the PC version of the game, it is far from the worst AAA game (in terms of bugs) that we have seen recently, but that is still no excuse, especially coming from a studio like CDPR who were trusted not to release a half baked game. On the other hand when you consider they were getting death threats from insane people about the last delay, you can kind of see why they did not want to delay again, and part of that blame is definitely on the toxic parts of the community who went for their pitchforks at any mention of a delay. Perhaps if people were more understanding a delay to Q1 2021 would have happened, and a lot of this mess could have been avoided, we will never know.

All we can do now is hope they will live up to the CDPR name again and deliver the fixes that are needed to make the game into what it should have been on day 1.
 
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