Three basic motives for narrative and atmosphere in the novels Witcher 3 doesn't feature on the same level

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Three basic motives for narrative and atmosphere in the novels Witcher 3 doesn't feature on the same level

Let's talk a bit about general narrative motives in Sapkowski's Witcher books. I think there are three such main narratives motives that defined the specific atmosphere in the books. I don't speak about the details of the plot or single adventures here but about more in-depth features of Sapkowski's general approach towards writing and fantasy storytelling in his Witcher books.

So let's start about what I think makes the books so special:

1) Euhemerism

This is a huge motive in the books. If you don't know the term, Euherism is (wikipedia): "an approach to the interpretation of mythology in which mythological accounts are presumed to have originated from real historical events or personages. Euhemerism supposes that historical accounts become myths as they are exaggerated in the retelling, accumulating elaborations and alterations that reflect cultural mores." So basically Sapkowski took fairytales, myths and legends from all over Europe (many from Slavic countries but also quite a few with a more Western heritage) and turned them into real elements of his world, as a part of history. One of the best examples - that is also present in the game - is the Wild Hunt. It's an old myth that was well known in central and northern Europe during medieval times. Sapowski took this myth and made it real. So his fantasy has a very strong root in already existing human mythology on top of which he implements ideas and creatures and stories of himself. Pretty much every plotline in the Witcher books is somehow connected to old, already existing fairytales and myths Sapkowski just used for his stories, often in a twisted way though. I miss that element in Witcher 3 for a great deal to be honest. Of course the Wild Hunt is still present but that's something Sapkwoski already created. Where is CDPR's own take on that? I can't remember any story of Witcher 3 (one werewolf quest excluded) that reminded me of euhemerism. Maybe CDPR didn't want to follow Sapkowski's footsteps. But to me that was one element that made the books so special. It set the mood.

2) Destiny and the conflict between faith, doubt and reality

This is the second big motive in the book. The whole destiny aspect of the books is rooted in the question what people believe and how much they think that their free will counts. Faith plays a big role as well, if we only look at Ithlinne's prophecy. The whole plot of the Witcher pentalogy is built on people believing in this prophecy. But there is always tension between reality and doubt and faith in the books. They hardly ever come together, they serve as two elements to define the world and its characters. The things people believe in don't materialize. Just like deities in our real world faith rarely materialize. Ithlienne's prophecy is the Witcher counterpart to the biblical apocalypse or maybe Nostradamus' prophecies. People in the Witcher world are always caught in the conflict between believing in something and acting according to their believings and their real life and real life subjects. It's also on of Geralt's internal conflicts in the books, the struggle between free will and destiny. The bottom line is that it is an everlasting fight in the books that defines the playing field. It's not concrete. The games break with that tradition, mainly by making the White Frost a concrete entity or something that really threatens the world, taking it down from the world of faith and philosophy to the very real world. That trivializes the whole aspect and take away from the tension and the conflicts this world and characters are caught in.

3) Perspective and the issue of truth

The books are about many people's perspectives, on many different levels. The reader is always the external obersver but for different characters and even different times. On top of that and even more importantly there a blurring lines between "truth" and "fairytale" with the ending of the pentalogy being the best example. It's not completley clear whether we're still the Godly spectator of things that really happend or whether we are already listening to a fairytale Ciri tells to Galahad. With this element so late in the books Sapkowski played with our believes and challenges much of what he presented as "Godly truth" before. How much of it really happened in the way we read? How much was just exaggeration, fairytale, myth? With this element Sapkowski made his whole stories an euhemism in iself, playing with different meta levels. That becomes quite obvious in the various elements with Nimue in the books, best portraited in the ending of Seasons of Storms, where the lines between reality and dream blurred again. This has also much to do with the conflict between faith and doubt or faith and reality I spoke about before. How much is the reader willing to believe? What's the purpose and goal of the storyteller? Whose perspective do we really share in which situation?


To me, many aspects of these motives are lost in Witcher 3. Of course that has a lot to do with the different medium. Many of these aspects are core strengths of books as storytelling medium that can depict such things like internal conflict or different (meta-)perspectives better than any other medium. But nevertheless, much of that is still what defined the special atmosphere of the Witcher books for me (besides Sapkowski's fine mix of sad, cruel and humorous elements). What do you think?
 
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Another example of Euhermerism from the game is Ciri and the Seven Dwarves, but Sapkowski already covered that in the books with Renfri.

Another dynamic from the books which I found lacking in the game was the sexual side of Ciri's story. Wasn't it the 'child of elder blood' that was necessary? I find it weird that in the 6 years between the saga and the game everybody in the world has gone from wanting to f*ck Ciri to wanting to manipulate/use her, this is extra weird considering she is certainly much more f*ckable now than she was as an 'ugly*' 14 y/o. This is a CDPR game, I was suprised they actively chose to drop this essential dynamic to her story.

* Yen's words.
 
Another dynamic from the books which I found lacking in the game was the sexual side of Ciri's story. Wasn't it the 'child of elder blood' that was necessary? I find it weird that in the 6 years between the saga and the game everybody in the world has gone from wanting to f*ck Ciri to wanting to manipulate/use her, this is extra weird considering she is certainly much more f*ckable now than she was as an 'ugly*' 14 y/o. This is a CDPR game, I was suprised they actively chose to drop this essential dynamic to her story.

You're right. Sexually abusing Ciri is THE main plot driver in the pentalogy. But sadly apart from the "romances" all sexual content was wiped from the games. I guess it's because CDPR feared that the world is still not really for a "full" mature video game that can cover even very controversial topics like sexual abuse. It seems that mainstream video games are still rather seen as "toys" than as serious works of art for a strictly mature audience, even by CDPR...

So I understand the reasoning for it but it leaves a huge hole in the plot, a hole that CDPR never managed to fill. Eredin's main motivation to hunt Ciri is mainly left in the void (because they neither wanted to cover the sexual theme nor did they came up with something substantial on their own...).


But my thread was more meant for discussion of in-depth motives that define the atmosphere and basic style of the narrative rather than actual plot motives.
 
You're right. Sexually abusing Ciri is THE main plot driver in the pentalogy. But sadly apart from the "romances" all sexual content was wiped from the games. I guess it's because CDPR feared that the world is still not really for a "full" mature video game that can cover even very controversial topics like sexual abuse. It seems that mainstream video games are still rather seen as "toys" than as serious works of art for a strictly mature audience, even by CDPR...

So I understand the reasoning for it but it leaves a huge hole in the plot, a hole that CDPR never managed to fill. Eredin's main motivation to hunt Ciri is mainly left in the void (because they neither wanted to cover the sexual theme nor did they came up with something substantial on their own...).


But my thread was more meant for discussion of in-depth motives that define the atmosphere and basic style of the narrative rather than actual plot motives.

Still it's a theme essential to the narrative of the books, a theme which is completely absent from the game. The absence of this from the game is unrealistic at times. In the book witcher world atleast one of the Baron's men would have tried to sexually assault Ciri during her time at Crow's Perch, but in the game this group of cruel rapists and murders become harmless puppies in Ciri's presence. Does not compute... I'm not saying that I wanted this to happen, i'm just saying that if Sapkowski wrote this story, it would have happened. And also Eredin wanting an Elder Blood heir would have added another level to his motivations which are laughably underdeveloped in the game. I'm currently working on a post which I might finish soon about 'How to Fix the Wild Hunt and the White Forst' and I have a lot to say about game Eredin...
 
You're right. Sexually abusing Ciri is THE main plot driver in the pentalogy. But sadly apart from the "romances" all sexual content was wiped from the games. I guess it's because CDPR feared that the world is still not really for a "full" mature video game that can cover even very controversial topics like sexual abuse. It seems that mainstream video games are still rather seen as "toys" than as serious works of art for a strictly mature audience, even by CDPR...

So I understand the reasoning for it but it leaves a huge hole in the plot, a hole that CDPR never managed to fill. Eredin's main motivation to hunt Ciri is mainly left in the void (because they neither wanted to cover the sexual theme nor did they came up with something substantial on their own...).


But my thread was more meant for discussion of in-depth motives that define the atmosphere and basic style of the narrative rather than actual plot motives.

thats why i support your thread here. Let me explain my vision aproach of this saga/sapkowksi

Back in 07/08 come across a Game called TW1 much influenced by Tolkien, previous even watched the lotr not the movie the cartoon from the 80^s
Im Starting playing the Witcher1 wow cool elves/monsters and more cool stuff, first Playtrough take side with the nonhumans/scio'tels elvs/dwarfs my thinking BEST choice INGAME (Learn that F5 is your Friend )after i finished some act/20 DAMN wtf is happen here i need to slaughter Humans and evrything who stands between me and to reach the Top rly. Shocked............nah it can be worst lets try the humans side Flamming Rose wuhuuu even the name is cool ..Siegfied my Knight bro... aftersome hours in played i start thinking man this will End even worst....ok lets go to the finish line.Asking myself who is responsible for that masacre=crap? ahh Sarpkowski damn never heard of him before=?(Shame on me even have Family member who are polish :))Ahh i need to play Neutral/Gray Wolf thats how it was supposed to be . Ok lets start a 3 Playtrough. DAMN YOU,gray wolf, now i need to slaughter all/evryone to get to the top of mountain rly? My verdict back then you can choose between Jon Vorhees/Humans vsFredy Kruger/Nonhumans and it dont let you to happiness.Regret factors of choices maybe 15 times.

I prepared myself for the TW2 not to get shocked/stunned/perplex and start reading the books back in that time not all novels where translated so i called some friends to help me with that.

TW2 what a amazing world and i Love the politics damn took me 88h for one single Playtrough now i was angry,not because of the scenario.politics,monster it felt something is missing.....=?Where is my Gray Wolf rly i dont like to get thrown in to one side i Know they are all BAD let me decide nope. in short regret Factors 3 only becasue now i know saskia/Henselt Phillipa and the Lodge nice twisting endings good gamewriting

Played Tw3 first playtrough reconsider the twist Factors ther is none.regrets none,is that rly TW3 nah i see what you did here CDPR you changed the course to the books now.Big mistake,Why=? Its impossible to bring some characters in to a game/movie like this.I replyed already in some thread similar with the censorships.

Best Example: Game of Thrones,Rome and other series as well Watch it in HBO/Uncensored then go watch the GERMAN.AUSTRALIA,ASIAN;ARAB,version of this MOVIES or GAMES in foreing language. Most country by the LAw banning or have heavy censorships in it.
Such like child abuse/Torture/Snuff Movies/Porn watching,Gay/marriage will be punished by Death in certayn Countrys.Puplic Execution of a Woman philandering in arabs sates.
The CDPR writers have scratched the Books and implemented only the surface of some characters i doubt that 75% even know who cirilla rly is. Stated alry in Other threads.

Grammar/spelling wil be improved in future i try to learnit properly thx.
 
1) Euhemerism

With the game limiting us to a single narrative perspective (Geralt), it is hard to get a sense of the mythology developed around the game's events, but there are a few places where we see the exaggerations that will lead to the creation of legends. There are also a number of myths the people in the game world believe that we get to see put to the test.

With the long lifespans some of the game characters enjoy, they have developed some of their own myths that give them influence or advantage over others. Geralt for example has the "Butcher of Blaviken" personal legend that he sometimes uses to intimidate people. The number of foes he killed was actually quite small in the books, but exaggeration over the years has given him the reputation of a fearsome killer.

Triss Merigold carries around the "14th of the Hill" hero of Sodden reputation, about which she feels conflicted. But undoubtedly the war hero reputation helps her move up the ranks among mages (joining the Lodge, etc) and in politics (Foltest's court). In Witcher 3 Geralt jokes during "Matter of Life and Death" about the legend of "Iron Merigold" the savior of the mages, but one can imagine that 20-50 years in the future something like this legend will be circulating.

Yen, whether she likes it or not, has become a figure of songs and stories thanks to Dandelion's ballads. In the books she yells at him for spreading tales about her personal life, and in W3 we witness Priscilla's performance and the conversation with the "Man of Glass" in White Orchard who recognized her after hearing the songs. This ties into the "Destiny, faith, doubt, and reality" point as well.

Witcher 2 has a great episode of myth-building with Sabrina Glevissig and the cult that developed around her after her execution. The soldier who took pity on her and stabbed her (who Dethmold believes she mind-controlled to draw her blood so she could finish her blood curse) goes mad and becomes the "Visionary." Some of the other soldiers who witnessed Sabrina's death join him in a cult, and who knows what that could develop into after several decades.

There are a number of small instances in the games where various legends are put to the test. Some are successful (turning the botchling into a guardian spirit or tricking the Hym with Cerys), some fail (in Witcher 1 you try a method to cure a werewolf that turns out to be a bogus myth), and some are ambiguous (the Mask of Urberos and the storm on Skellige). I like the more ambiguous results that leave doubt in the player's mind, for example the Rose of Remembrance that is dried up when you find it in Witcher 3- if you buy into the elven legend the dead rose has a very different meaning. The Mask episode on Skellige is great because you really don't know if Ermion saved everyone from a disaster or if he was just a superstitious old fool freaked out by a storm.
I wish there were more instances of failed legends where Geralt is suddenly forced to improvise. Imagine if the Sunstone failed to do anything in Act 3. First of all, Geralt would get to vent some frustration about elves and their stupid prophecies, but also it would feed doubts about Ithlinne's prophecy and the necessity of "sacrificing" Ciri to stop the White Frost. Also, you would have the Emperor, Avallach, and the Lodge all arguing over what to do next.

I think the best example of myth-building in W3 is the Crones. They are creatures with actual powers, but they have built up legend and mythology around themselves to spread their influence and cement their control over the surrounding region. The Sabbath ritual with the acorns, the "payment" of ears by the villagers, and the trail of treats for children all add greatly to their mystique and allow them to carry on devouring young humans with the cooperation of the nearby villagers.



2) Destiny and the conflict between faith, doubt and reality

Ciri: I don't think the White Frost contributed much to the Ciri story, and it needed much more background/evidence in game to make it seem like a real thing. For example, when Geralt visits Tir na Lia, there is no evidence there of the coming disaster. It would have been much more interesting if the Aen Elle homeworld was visibly dying.
The bigger question of Ciri's destiny should have been whether she will allow herself to be used (by the Emperor, the Lodge, or the Hunt), or can she escape such a fate and live a life of her choice (witcheress). In "Lady of the Lake" she three times accepts her fate, first with the elves of Tir na Lia then with Vilgefortz to save Yen, and later with the Lodge. But in each case Destiny intervenes and changes things for her. In Tir na Lia the unicorn shows her a way to escape, Geralt arrives to save her from Vilgefortz, and the deaths of Geralt and Yen convince her to seek refuge in another world rather than return to the Lodge without them. I feel like W3 missed the opportunity to make destiny (and fighting against it) a much bigger theme.

Yen, Geralt, and the Last Wish: Thanks to Dandelion and his ballads there is a lot of myth versus reality going on in Geralt and Yen's relationship. Between the Djinn's spell and myths that have developed around them, it seems like they are destined to be together forever, but the White Orchard reunion and Vizima seem to bring Geralt up agains the brick wall of reality. From then on he has to sort out for himself what is real, what is myth, and what is the influence of magic. This is why I like the Last Wish quest- it's time to cut away as many outside influences as possible and see what is real.



3) Perspective and the issue of truth

I really do love the mix of narrators in the books giving different perspectives on what happened. My favorite is the academy students learning and obviously doctored version of history that included "Saint Philippa the Martyr." The nature of the game makes it very difficult to replicate this element. Conflicting stories about Ciri could have presenting interesting possibilities. For example, if two people told Geralt about the same event but with very different interpretations, we could play through the same event as Ciri twice with very different results, and later perhaps Ciri herself could tell us the real version. Someone on the forums once suggested that Ciri's Novigrad escape fighting through the streets is actually Dandelion's exaggerated version with many times more enemies than were actually present, and I liked that interpretation.
 
The Witcher 3 meets Hollywood

Well many topics and themes from the books and previous games just went missing in the creating process of The Witcher 3 simply because the core philosophy of The Witcher 3 seems to be quite different than in the first two games.

Where TW1+TW2 are for a mature audiance and the complexity of the story seems to be higher, The Witcher 3 is a typical Hollywood blockbuster with a lot of action. The Witcher 3 is mainly about adrenalin paced fast action with the tough guy Geralt and his friends against the scary looking sceleton armor wearing bad guys with small brains and big muscles (thats sadly the Wild Hunt).

The Witcher 3 is actually Hollywood in a video game. How else can it be explained that so many difficult topics (Geralt as a Red Rider, relationship between Geralt-Yen-Triss-Ciri, identity, love, war, politics) were neglected?

The greatest moment in the game were the Battle of Kaer Morhen and the heart breaking father-daughter relationship between Geralt and Ciri. This relationship is basically the only thing that carries the Wild Hunt plot.

I find it sad that they also left out the philosophical topics from TW1 and the conversations with Geralts friends about the meaning of life, love and other things (remember the fantastic scene from TW1 when he has a drink with Zoltan and Dandelion and they talk about the concept of love and being a witcher in a changing world). Why did all this get lost?
 
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I guess it's because CDPR feared that the world is still not really for a "full" mature video game that can cover even very controversial topics like sexual abuse.
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True. Especially, if you think of CDPR being a small company back then when the witcher 1 was released. Today, they have much more responsibility for a lot more employees, and obviously, they would have made even more compromises to make the witcher 3 a success.
 
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