Throwing Knifes

[CS554]

The need to synth knives and re-add them from backpak is inconvenience, but to be honest I expected that it would be worse. I got used to doing it quickly. Is fact that it forces me (little bit) to dismantle weapons (at least part of loot) and buy components (green) from shops, but it makes play more diverse and I have more time to looking around. I also mix usage of knives with my silented assault rifle ... with bonuses from cool tree are practically all head's hits critical.

I respect your opinion and IMO it's needless inconvenience. I'm taking these pieces of information as something that actually wasn't covered that well at all during after few months after release. There were discussion about min maxing builds with different types, about Perks, which worked and not but we didn't really had discussion about what all kinds of playstyles system we have enable. For me example, my first playthrough was with Nomad punk who liked to solve a lot of problems with baseball bat and it started a bit of a joke as I didn't knew that much about game, I got it from my sister as early Christmas present who know I'm to the Cyberpunk genre, literature.

So I was quite surprised that my high Body character was actually able to solve a lot of problems with a baseball bat, the whole thing that melee is actually viable and practical game play can blend with style and what I think of my V and that. My experience with this type of games is that players imagine stuff up and keep doing that while actual game play is about gun A, B or C.

To get back to throwing knives, my second V was a StreetKid and for me some sort of background I imagined in the world where Scavs keep kidnapping people to spare parts and fucking snuff videos, something that made sense for me is that StreetKid would be familiar with knives from early age for self defense. Katana came into picture because I needed to level up Blades to compensate for bugged Athletics skill progression and missing Perk points from there and then I came to think that certain cyberpunk stereotypes might work as well as my Nomad punk in terms of practical gameplay.

I don't think it's away from anyone in single player game to explore these things and more convenient that would be, more people might find game fun. Say throwing stars, even suggested by me don't really suit for certain kind of StreetKid, stackable knives would work for both. And what comes to looting and all crafting related stuff, it's popular feature but it's not universally liked.

Throwing knives, while I start with certain kind of cybepunk stereotype, ninja/samurai benefits would be also to StreetKid to Corpo whom parents put him in some sort of military like school and that V would have gone through some sort of commando training during there which would reflect to position in security at Arasaka. Nomad V could be someone who needed to wander quite a bit alone, with little ammo and had to rely to knife more often than not. I don't really know what roleplaying means for different people and those are just from the top of my head but I see throwing knives feature being convenient enhancing experience with more than just one kind of playstyle, even if I took that as example in my previous post.

 

[SigilFey]

Seems to me as if it's almost definitely a balance concern. As others stated earlier, if knives and other melee weapons could be thrown and retrieved with abandon, there would be nothing stopping players from just mowing down legions of enemies with only a few knives.

Hence, this is likely a place where "reality" meets "game". The player has the option, in a desperate situation, to deal out a lot of up-front damage to an enemy, if not outright kill them, but it will cost something. Seems like a pretty fair tradeoff. Avoids the ability to cheese the feature.

 

[CS554]

Seems to me as if it's almost definitely a balance concern. As others stated earlier, if knives and other melee weapons could be thrown and retrieved with abandon, there would be nothing stopping players from just mowing down legions of enemies with only a few knives.

Hence, this is likely a place where "reality" meets "game". The player has the option, in a desperate situation, to deal out a lot of up-front damage to an enemy, if not outright kill them, but it will cost something. Seems like a pretty fair tradeoff. Avoids the ability to cheese the feature.

Nothing stops player from moving down legions of enemies with katana, baseball bat or pistol and nobody is calling that cheesing. Knives aren't that expensive and during my StreetKid run I got most of them via downed enemy NPC's.

My theory is that game can't add items in NPC inventory after NPC's are spawned in game world.

 

[cartlidge]

Nothing stops player from moving down legions of enemies with katana, baseball bat or pistol and nobody is calling that cheesing. Knives aren't that expensive and during my StreetKid run I got most of them via downed enemy NPC's.

My theory is that game can't add items in NPC inventory after NPC's are spawned in game world.

They just need to remove the line of code which removes a knife when thrown and they can also remove the check if you've got a knife equipped but I expect the latter will be left and help towards code bloat

 

[SigilFey]

Nothing stops player from moving down legions of enemies with katana, baseball bat or pistol and nobody is calling that cheesing. Knives aren't that expensive and during my StreetKid run I got most of them via downed enemy NPC's.

My theory is that game can't add items in NPC inventory after NPC's are spawned in game world.

The effect is primarily psychological. It's a subtle but very significant return.

If I have a melee weapon that I need to use with skill, then I'm using the weapon as designed, and it should feel powerful. I had to work to get it and I had to work to learn how to use it. I'm also vulnerable to counterattacks, gunfire, etc., so using this powerful melee weapon comes at a cost. It does damage based on its stats, and I need to employ it effectively to take advantage of that power. I can now "mow down" enemies by timing my attacks and using my sword like a sword, or my club like a club. No one really minds because...that's how melee weapons work.

If I have a powerful, modded assault rifle, I can unleash pain on the enemy, saturating areas with bullets and laying waste to a whole groups. I need to purchase or craft the ammunition and then spend it. I also need to fight the recoil and time my reloading. There's a cost. I can now "mow down" whole groups of enemies using my fully automatic assault rifle like a fully automatic assault rifle. No one complains because...that's what assault rifles are for.

If I have a knife that allows me to stealthily take out targets at melee range, that's its niche. I need to creep up on individual targets, memorize patrol and camera patterns, and get close enough for individual takedowns. It will take planning and patience to clear out a room quietly, and of course, there's the risk of discovery if I make a mistake. So it costs something. If I can successfully sweep an entire base without ever being seen or heard, I've earned it, using a knife as a knife. No one has any issues because...that's how a knife is used.

BUT.

If, however, I can simply carry around three knives and just hurl them into people's faces from the shadows, then pick them back up again and do the same thing to the next three people until I've won...what have I done? I was never at any real risk, and it didn't require any sort of challenge. I also spent nothing to achieve the end I wanted; I walked out with exactly what I went in with. There was no cost. My knives became perfectly silenced sniper rifles with unlimited ammo. Now people will take issue with it because...there's no reason to use any weapon other than a knife -- the whole game is just "throw knife and collect to win".

As a balancing point...I make throwing the knife finite. Sure, you could just carry around a backpack full of knives and keep hucking them. They become ammo. Now there's a cost. Especially if you're caught out with a really nice knife: sure you could hurl it into the face of that charging enemy and one-shot him, but you know you'll lose that blade forever. Now we've got some tension and balance!

 

[CS554]

If, however, I can simply carry around three knives and just hurl them into people's faces from the shadows, then pick them back up again and do the same thing to the next three people until I've won...what have I done? I was never at any real risk, and it didn't require any sort of challenge. I also spent nothing to achieve the end I wanted; I walked out with exactly what I went in with. There was no cost. My knives became perfectly silenced sniper rifles with unlimited ammo. Now people will take issue with it because...there's no reason to use any weapon other than a knife -- the whole game is just "throw knife and collect to win".

As a balancing point...I make throwing the knife finite. Sure, you could just carry around a backpack full of knives and keep hucking them. They become ammo. Now there's a cost. Especially if you're caught out with a really nice knife: sure you could hurl it into the face of that charging enemy and one-shot him, but you know you'll lose that blade forever. Now we've got some tension and balance!

You can do the same with 3 - 12 bullets with a silenced gun or even better, there are lot's of situations where player can use contagion, suicide etc. quickhacks from the safe distance, same goes for using Tech sniper rifle. There are lot's of ways to cheese many encounters in game, yet people don't choose to go that route and I actually like the freedom, especially as that is core element of design that enables such fluidity of valid builds available for player, though that comes with responsibility for player.

I don't think not not retriable knives are intended mechanic but rather it's like that for reasons we don't know. That said, knives being retrievable or not isn't what makes or breaks Cyber ninja / samurai builds, to StreetKid who relied on knives in hostile environment to survive, but that knife inventory isn't stackable in quick slots, like say grenades. Going forth and back in inventory is just unnecessary inconvenience that makes playing those sort of builds less fun that it could be.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

In the absence of "stackable" knives, at least that the slots which have just become free with a knife that you have just thrown automatically re-equip themselves with a knife of the same rarity if there is one in the inventory. It would avoid having to open the inventory each time but still having to manage your "stock" of knives.
Because after having tested for a long time, the knives are very funny, but they quickly become tedious and we quickly switch to "conventional" weapons, it's a shame

 

[CS554]

In the absence of "stackable" knives, at least that the slots which have just become free with a knife that you have just thrown automatically re-equip themselves with a knife of the same rarity if there is one in the inventory. It would avoid having to open the inventory each time but still having to manage your "stock" of knives.
Because after having tested for a long time, the knives are very funny, but they quickly become tedious and we quickly switch to "conventional" weapons, it's a shame

That's actually what I meant. Auto equip as long available in inventory. Few ways to implement that, but I whatever CDPR might choose to make that work, I hope they go for it.

 

[Martind_Forlon_]

Just small hint: there exist blueprints for common knife and tanto:

Spoiler: Location

Visit Spector Cheng hand weapons shop in Japantown.

Edit: changed basic to common

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Just small hint: there exist blueprints for basic knife and tanto:

Spoiler: Location

Visit Spector Cheng hand weapons shop in Japantown.

When you say "basic" it's a common one ?
If yes, good to know. Maybe also effective than a uncommon and cheaper to craft
(the uncommon "green" is directly unlock now in 1.3, I think).

 

[Martind_Forlon_]

I used green blueprint all the time, but these are white (common sound correct) and needs just the lowest grade mats … sorry, have game in my language. I hope it’s clear now … Im quite sure that also these blueprints are newly added by 1.3

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I used green blueprint all the time, but these are white (common sound correct) and needs just the lowest grade mats … sorry, have game in my language. I hope it’s clear now … Im quite sure that also these blueprints are newly added by 1.3

Yep, it's very cool
Just a shame it's in Japantown, and not directly available at Coach Fred.

 

[Aethral]

I love throwing knives but after a point I stopped using em. They stopped killing opponents and I could no longer rely on em to keep my cover. I wish there was at least a chance to recover a throwing knife like skyrim arrows or a perk that added a percentage chance to recover or not use the resource.

 

[Umagon-1]

I think the thrown weapons could be improved in the future releases by including cyberarms and cyberlegs that allowed for limited storage of throwing knifes and other thrown weapons like small tech chakram like disks. Where the larger knifes are stored on the outside of the arms and the smaller tech chakram disk are stored in the inside.

The knifes could be used to apply the poison statues effect while the tech chakrams could be used to apply burning, and emp. Capacity wise I image 2 knifes stored on the outside of each limb so 8 knifes total with 6 tech chakrams total, 3 tech chakrams stored inside each cyber arm.

They could possibly have a tech chakram that came back to the player with the level of tech that is demonstrated in the game. I image the center would contain some time of gyroscopic system that changed the course of the flight path after making contact with the target changing its rebound trajectory. But limit the returning tech chakram to only one or two can be deployed at given time with a small rearming delay before they could be used again.

This would give players some options they could load out with 8 knifes and 2 returning tech chakrams or load out with 8 knifes and 6 status effect tech chakrams giving a total of 14 thrown projectiles before they need to recraft and reload.

 

[Feline_Witcher]

There should have been a class of weapon called throwing knife.

Aye, they are very different types of weapons, even the OG Arse Creed games made that pretty clear

 

[Spockprime]

Sorry, not buying any gameplay balance argument.

If it's a gameplay balance issue, then the appropriate response is to tone down the damage done by thrown knives, not to make thrown knives simply disappear into the electronic ether. There's no gameplay balance need for thrown knives to simply disappear. Re-spawn them on the ground beside an NPC, or something. It's not hard -- there's been a mod out for quite a while that gives a couple of options for fixing the issue. Combined with another balance mod for damage, the pair work well. I've yet to hear any persuasive reason why CDPR can't do this themselves.

 

[batouyukinawa]

I'm sorry but I can't in good faith defend this clear design oversight. It's obvious the knives should be lootable after throwing. I downloaded the throwing knives mod from Nexus and I can tell you it doesn't make V god like. You still need perfect aim under stressful situations and If you miss you're SOL and left completely open to attack. Nothing about these factors lead to an overpowered state. More so a risk reward proposition.

 

[Feline_Witcher]

I'm sorry but I can't in good faith defend this clear design oversight. It's obvious the knives should be lootable after throwing. I downloaded the throwing knives mod from Nexus and I can tell you it doesn't make V god like. You still need perfect aim under stressful situations and If you miss you're SOL and left completely open to attack. Nothing about these factors lead to an overpowered state. More so a risk reward proposition.

They could have balanced the advantage of retrieving the thrown knife by giving enemies the ability to throw them back at ya

 

[BigWezz69]

Other games have a separate throwing weapon class, and they balance it by allowing the player to carry a set about of those weapons, its that simple.

Assassin's Creed (2007) had throwing knives, I believe they were capped at having 5 at a time then you had to buy/get more, so no mowing down legions of npc's. If Ubisoft could do it 14 years ago, goodness knows why CDPR could not have done it in 2020

 

[Martind_Forlon_]

I love throwing knives but after a point I stopped using em. They stopped killing opponents and I could no longer rely on em to keep my cover. I wish there was at least a chance to recover a throwing knife like skyrim arrows or a perk that added a percentage chance to recover or not use the resource.

Interesting… at lvl50 I have now maxed cool attribute and with just basic knife is almost assured hit/kill for normal npcs including city centre. And I don’t even have maxed inflicting damage due few missing perks. Is fact that I get used aim on head and attack from ‘shadows’ without rising alarm, but imo this fit to this playstyle. There are also some nice hacks for lure away npcs in packs. And I play on highest difficulty.