To CDPR: The importance of Combat

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I understand if you have to shoot/fight your way out of a situation and it's not possible to avoid it. However, if you can actually hurt people as a dialogue option, there should be other alternatives too (e.g. bribery).

You are straying from the point.

You replied to someone who said you can't expect us to play a cyberpunk game without combat. You said what if someone wanted to play as a pacifist.

My response was this game demands you get into combat at certain points regardless of your play style.

The point is that combat should be fun because the game throws you in a lot of combat situations. Talking hypotheticals of other games which don't force you into combat has no bearing on our discussion about Cyberpunk 2077.
 
My response was this game demands you get into combat at certain points regardless of your play style.

I understand and the game also forces you to drive, but CP2077 isn't a racing game. We do not know much you can avoid combat. In a similar fashion, we do not know how much you can avoid talking either. I guess both are important and you cannot ignore either. Regardless, of course it would be swell to have a good combat system. However, what qualifies as a good combat system is up for debate. Maybe users want a non-lethal approach. This means implementing weapons that only disable, not kill. Set phasers to stun.
 
I understand if you have to shoot/fight your way out of a situation and it's not possible to avoid it. However, if you can actually hurt people as a dialogue option, there should be other alternatives too (e.g. bribery).
That would be kind of interesting. Even though I think bribery is pretty gross and sad in real life, as an immersive option in the game this would fit in very well in Cyberpunk2077. I hope bribery, if included, includes many different very complicated options where V can use money, information, blackmail, and maybe even more unusual methods of bribing enemy characters, but I guess this will probably not be included because it would change the game's rating. As a Mod? I hope someone makes it. Would be kind of cool.
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I understand and the game also forces you to drive, but CP2077 isn't a racing game. We do not know much you can avoid combat. In a similar fashion, we do not know how much you can avoid talking either. I guess both are important and you cannot ignore either. Regardless, of course it would be swell to have a good combat system. However, what qualifies as a good combat system is up for debate. Maybe users want a non-lethal approach. This means implementing weapons that only disable, not kill. Set phasers to stun.
It would be cool if V could walk around with a taser, or some kind of taser device that incapacitates enemies by causing an overwhelming tickling sensation that has them completely just fall on the floor laughing for a minute and then they just surrender because they fear experiencing the overwhelming taser sensation again. It would be funny, and I would argue that it would actually in some ways probably be covered by the Cyberpunk2077 lore, because the weapon uses advanced technology to simulate sensory input in the enemy to make them feel overwhelming tickling and loss of control (temporary) which is almost exactly like a normal taser, expect instead of pain it's just tickle-like-discomfort. What do you think?
 
What do you think?

Videos have already shown you can hack people. That's pretty useless when you are dodging bullets, though. The option to disable enemies should suffice. For me, it doesn't really matter in what way, as long as it fits with CP2077. So, yes, you should be allowed to use stun weapons, which can be conventional (using electrical charges) or "unconventional", like firing an electronic dart that automatically hacks the user's brain and plays Justin Bieber on repeat, endlessly.
 
Videos have already shown you can hack people. That's pretty useless when you are dodging bullets, though. The option to disable enemies should suffice. For me, it doesn't really matter in what way, as long as it fits with CP2077. So, yes, you should be allowed to use stun weapons, which can be conventional (using electrical charges) or "unconventional", like firing an electronic dart that automatically hacks the user's brain and plays Justin Bieber on repeat, endlessly.
Hahaha wow, that would distract them a lot.
*enemy gets hacked*
This is all they see for 5 minutes:
Meanwhile V in real life:
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You sure your rig wasn't getting nailed with FPS drops or something?

The only other thing I can think is your timing was off.
No.... and No.... and No. and also No. Furthermore. No.
It was not a timing issue or a skill issue. The game simply did not respect my inputs. The combat was so awful, that I felt physically ill every time I experienced it. I wanted to fight the enemies, but I was fighting the game instead. It's an indescribably frustrating feeling, and I never want to experience that ever again. Cyberpunk2077 does appear to be better and different in some ways, but some things do appear similar enough that it makes me feel extremely worried and uncomfortable. I just keep going back and watching the footage, and I keep going back and watching Witcher 3 footage and it's only reinforced how I feel about it no matter how much I try to analyze it.

I hope Cyberpunk2077 combat, in all ways, is nothing like the Witcher 3. This would absolutely crush me. :(
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Personally from what I've seen so far the combat both with guns and sword looks satisfactory.

I know lots of people have complained about the sword gameplay but for me it looked really awesome. Deflecting bullets and the way the guys head popped off and dropped in the distance is what I've always wanted. I want to see limbs flying away from the body.

I also really loved the ninja-like running animation as V sprints to the car with the katana. I need this game now!!

I will get to RP my Cyberninja fantasy finally!
I mean, I did like what I saw, but I still feel like it's a little weak. I feel like it could be improved a bit, but I sort of like how they're starting with it. It is better and different than the Witcher 3, and seems to avoid most of the frustrating types of things about it. The fist fight with the synchronized twins looks very similar to the Witcher 3 fist fights, which I really don't like. It looks very clunky. Hopefully this is all only early footage from an old build, and hopefully the katana gameplay is only a beginner V of a low skill level with swords.
 
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Videos have already shown you can hack people. That's pretty useless when you are dodging bullets, though. The option to disable enemies should suffice. For me, it doesn't really matter in what way, as long as it fits with CP2077. So, yes, you should be allowed to use stun weapons, which can be conventional (using electrical charges) or "unconventional", like firing an electronic dart that automatically hacks the user's brain and plays Justin Bieber on repeat, endlessly.

Actually not every brain should be hackable, as in "natural brain".
 
Actually not every brain should be hackable, as in "natural brain".

A natural brain is just another kind of machine. But yeah, when it comes to hacking, it should only work on implants. That's why you should just stun enemies the normal way in combat, with an electric shock.
 
I understand and the game also forces you to drive, but CP2077 isn't a racing game. We do not know much you can avoid combat. In a similar fashion, we do not know how much you can avoid talking either. I guess both are important and you cannot ignore either. Regardless, of course it would be swell to have a good combat system. However, what qualifies as a good combat system is up for debate. Maybe users want a non-lethal approach. This means implementing weapons that only disable, not kill. Set phasers to stun.

The driving in Cyberpunk has been criticised a d the developers have acknowledged that it needs work.

The shooting has also been criticised.

Again I fail to see your point. It seems like you are here to justify why Cyberpunk game mechanics doesn't need to meet industry standards. It's very bizarre.
 
The driving in Cyberpunk has been criticised a d the developers have acknowledged that it needs work.

The shooting has also been criticised.

Again I fail to see your point. It seems like you are here to justify why Cyberpunk game mechanics doesn't need to meet industry standards. It's very bizarre.
I think the point is that it does meet industry standards, but the people thinking that any RPG is going to have just as good fighting as a Fighting game, just as good shooting as a Shooter, and just as good driving as a Racing game are fooling themselves. Those game specializes in those things, RPGs specialize in Storytelling, World Building, and Characters. Now if that’s not some people’s cup of tea then they should go play a Halo or Forza or MK11 or whatever it is that floats their boat.
 
i mentioned it in a diff post but i forget which thread. Sleeping Dogs (a very good action rpg that more people should play) has lots of mechanics to play with, including combat, parkour, shooting, driving and races.
the driving physics and mechanics in Sleeping Dogs was developed by devs who worked for Criterion. the driving in Sleeping Dogs is outstanding...because it was developed by Criterion vets. the driving in Sleeping Dogs isn't as good as a NFS game...but in the midst of an rpg where driving is not the gameplay loop around which the game is centered, it's sooo good.
so, when your driving element in your open world action rpg is developed by people who do/did specialise in that element, it's still not going to be as good as the game they made that is centered about that element. (but holy celestial stick shift, will it feel good).
 
I think the point is that it does meet industry standards, but the people thinking that any RPG is going to have just as good fighting as a Fighting game, just as good shooting as a Shooter, and just as good driving as a Racing game are fooling themselves. Those game specializes in those things, RPGs specialize in Storytelling, World Building, and Characters. Now if that’s not some people’s cup of tea then they should go play a Halo or Forza or MK11 or whatever it is that floats their boat.

But the game journalists who played it said it did not meet adequate standards.
 
But the game journalists who played it said it did not meet adequate standards.
I don’t know what journalists you’re talking about because the ones who put out videos said the shooting feels good not as good as Destiny or CoD (again those games specialize in shooting) but good. Some liked the driving some didn’t and there are 3 different builds with 3 different driving in them. The melee is not the best but it’s not the worst.

They also said that it is the best open world city they have ever played in and it feels so alive and dense. They loved Jackie and the world of Cyberpunk. (Which is great considering this is an RPG)

You would think people would have enough common sense to actually play a game for themselves before assuming that the creators don’t care about this or that but I guess not. :shrug:
 
But the game journalists who played it said it did not meet adequate standards.

but and i can't stress this enough the game isn't done yet

not to mention alanah pearce commented to her playthrough dev that forza h4 was her favourite racing game, and the dev stated that they had a build where the driving was meant to replicate the controls/responsiveness of forza h4...so people are still making a mountain out of surface that is completely invisible to them
 
but and i can't stress this enough the game isn't done yet

That has nothing to do with my original point. I was arguing that combat should be well done even though it's an rpg. Whether or not the game is finished has nothing to do with that. Otherwise we should all remain silent until release day.
 
But the game journalists who played it said it did not meet adequate standards.

I haven't actually seen much negative feedback. The most Ive seen said that there were bugs and the game needs work. Ive seen nothing that implied that the controls or gameplay was excessively bad.

Im going to ask some references before I dismiss this.
 
That has nothing to do with my original point. I was arguing that combat should be well done even though it's an rpg. Whether or not the game is finished has nothing to do with that. Otherwise we should all remain silent until release day.
your original point had to do with having to hurt people as a matter of combat. a threat with physical harm doesn't necessarily equate to combat imo. combat, to me, requires the other person in a state of offense as well as myself; mutual offense as opposed to a standoff as opposed to having someone in a hold (releasing them once terms are agreed). disco elysium is brought up on this forum several times for a reason.

you made other points since then discussing the early-build playing journalists commenting on the feel of the combat, which is frankly a moot point since those builds don't represent the final build as far as we know; and didn't even represent what they could have been playing anyway since CDPR had diff builds ready behind the scenes. whether the game is finished or not has everything to do with that because any decrying of the combat, the pacifistic options (which should absolutely be present and satisfying), the driving, etc, is premature.

i decisively reserve my disappointment in competed things once they are completed. disappointment in speculative attributes is not worth the time.
 
I think the point is that it does meet industry standards, but the people thinking that any RPG is going to have just as good fighting as a Fighting game, just as good shooting as a Shooter, and just as good driving as a Racing game are fooling themselves. Those game specializes in those things, RPGs specialize in Storytelling, World Building, and Characters.
This type of thinking I see is starting to get me.
Why should a RPG be only about storytelling, world building, characters? Why should the devs not learn new stuff to add to their game for immersion, and compliment their story and world, and characters?

I will always wish a game to be better and better inside its genre, but also be good at mechanics other types of genres are.
Of course, If the company has the money and resources for it.

Why not say, for example: your shooting game, or driving game, or combat mechanics are bad. CP2077, an RPG, is doing 'x' mechanic better than you, a game made specifically for 'x' genre.
 
"Most" (the ones I saw and read) of the people who played this version of CP2077 stated, that gunplay was improved much in comparison to E3 version and it now feels between "good" and "ok". Especially shotgun combat was praised, as very satisfying, being able to one-shot your opponents. Plenty said that driving is "ok", few said that it could be improved still, but I think nobody openly stated that it's bad. The most negative comments were associated with melee combat, and in my opinion, rightfully so - the hit feedback is bad, V h-t-h animations lacks punch (pun intended). Sword fight was weird.

So, getting back to starting post - In my opinion, CDPR is pretty damn aware that combat is important and it needs to look good, exactly like any other aspect of this game. But expecting that f.ex. shooting in CP2077 will be at the same level, or even better as games which are shooters only is too optimistic I think.
 
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This type of thinking I see is starting to get me.
Why should a RPG be only about storytelling, world building, characters? Why should the devs not learn new stuff to add to their game for immersion, and compliment their story and world, and characters?

I will always wish a game to be better and better inside its genre, but also be good at mechanics other types of genres are.
Of course, If the company has the money and resources for it.

Why not say, for example: your shooting game, or driving game, or combat mechanics are bad. CP2077, an RPG, is doing 'x' mechanic better than you, a game made specifically for 'x' genre.
I never said it was Only about story telling, world building, and characters. I said RPGs Specialize in that, some people are saying that other aspects of the game are not up to industry standards which is just a straight up lie.

Why does everything have to be extremes, to some of you the combat/driving/fighting is either as good as the best games that specialize in those things or it’s trash no middle ground. I’m sorry but that’s stupid.
 
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