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Tremors is Broken

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OG.laloquaint

Junior Member
#1
Tremors is Broken

Whenever this card is used with Axeman/Derran or combo'd with Ithlinne, I just feel like throwing my controller across the room. How annoying is it that this card can give you a 15+ swing every turn? That amount goes through the roof with the right set up. I understand that the card by itself isn't very good, but let's be honest, hardly anybody uses it by itself. I hope CDPR changes this dumb and over-powered card in the next balance update.
 

ser2440

Junior Member
#4
I feel if you changed the wording of Ithlinne's ability to "Damage all enemies by 1. If any were destroyed spawn a Lesser guardian on your side. Repeat Once" would show how powerful it is actually :p.

Hell Vandergrift damages all enemies by one with the possibility of adding Ragh nar Roog but that's nowhere near that level.

Even with 8 units and only one of them being STR 1 (no STR 2 units - almost impossible. Means you haven't placed any STR 5 or 8 unit on the board, or that if you have, it hasn't gotten damaged by dwarves) this gold card, aside from thinning your deck, provides a swing of 8 + 7 + 6 + 2 = 23 points. And that's not even the scenario where you have a STR 2 unit. Not to mention how easy it is to place 8 units on the board.

As for Axemen, well, I am biased against them. It's one of the archetypes I completely detest playing against. So I can't say.
 

4RM3D

Moderator
#5
Let's assume that a bronze can have 12 power. That means in order for Tremors to match that, it needs to hit 12 targets or 6 targets of which one of them is 1 strength. When you put it like that, it actually isn't that bad. The problem comes when you play a long round and the Tremors can critically hit, so to speak. The opposite can also happen where you are stuck with a Tremors in the final round without having many targets.

For Axemen, Lacerate (+ Herbalist) would usually be more power because opponent's tend to row-stack. Speaking of Lacerate, it can do up to 27 damage, yet no one takes any issue with that. Ithlinne is a special case where, if you can hit a full board, it hurts double so. She is also the only reason why it's difficult to balance spells. That's why it would be better to change her ability. A sole tremors is still fine though.
 

Tir_na_Lia

User
#6
Tremor is not a particularly overpowered card on paper, but the present state of the game where long rounds see scores of units gathering on board make its swing too high.
Especially because there are plenty of cards who allow you to play a Spell from deck whenever you want, so you can wait for the best moment.

Ithlinne is just the insult added to the injury.
The reason why armor decks can sometimes resist dorfs is that their protection greatly reduces Ithlinne's Swing (I'd love a card named like that...)

Axeman/Derran are dealt in one of the following ways:
1) Remove them as soon as they touch the board
2) Allow one of them to become really fat and Scorch at the last moment (more than one if you have more than 1 scorch)
 

Iuliandrei

Junior Member
#7
Tremors is like a Lacerate that affects all 3 rows but deals 1/3 of the damage. There is no reason for it to summon a "Lesser Guardian" imo, it's not even flavorful anymore since it changed from earth elemental.

Also this card isn't designed to give guaranteed bronze value, it's more like a tech card against swarm, even the spawn was introduced back when we had a harpy heavy meta.
 
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devivre

Moderator
#8
I'm not sure if not letting it spawn a bronze unit would fix the issue. Maybe. In a long round of course that would still generate a lot of points. Turning it into a silver card, is another idea and if it still needed a buff for that, you could always let it spawn a slightly better bronze unit. But for that change it might be a bit too situational.

Or change it back to the old version that did damage on both sides - for me it seemed okay as a bronze card.

But I agree that Tremors is currently too strong.
 

Jeydra

Junior Member
#10
Agree with Strykerx here. Tremors on its own isn't overpowered - sure it's super strong in long rounds, but so is Lacerate, Hailstorm, and so on. Meanwhile it's very much crap in short rounds. In my experience, Lacerate is significantly more common than Tremors in Axemen, and if they run Tremors they only run one copy.

Ithlinne + Tremors however is a different matter. In long rounds this will often be worth 40+ points (you have other cards to set up 1-strength and 2-strength units as well). Further, it's not like Ithlinne is dead if you end up in a short round. All you need to do is add Alzur's Thunder, and Ithlinne is still worth up to 20 points (unless you're in a literal topdeck war, in which case Ithlinne might only have one target with Alzur's Thunder).

The easiest way out of this is to make Ithlinne not able to cast Tremors. That might make Ithlinne very one-dimensional though, since Alzur's Thunder would be the only spell worth casting. Still a strong card, but very one-dimensional.
 

Karfuss

Junior Member
#11
I have to disagree. Ithlinne & Tremor is ST's ONLY answer to decks that attempt to fill the board such as Monsters and Dwarves, and ONLY gets value from a deep greedy round 1. It is already weak against NR and SK by default.

You remove that, and every ST that isn't already playing Dwarves is going to play Dwarves. Dwarf decks will run Ciri: Nova to replace Ithlinne for the Round 1 tempo and hold on to Paulie for the finisher, as they already do. Ithlinne & Tremor isn't THAT powerful in comparison to other tempo swings, and killing the Spelltael archetype is not worth it. Ithlinne has been nerfed enough.
 
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Noela

User
#12
Alzur's thunder, Tremors, Epidemic, Golden Froth and Bronze Weather. Tremors is fine, it is Ithlinne who needs a rework, or we need more hazards/boons cards. Before Tremors was changed, she was Ithline Two Thunders, because, frankly, who wants a double Epidemic?
And,of course, is a balance problem. It is true that the combo is demolishing, but for me it is the same as Ciri: Nova; cards that give an edge to underperforming archetypes. The bad part is that overpowered decks use them too, making them more overpowered.

Anyway, I love Ithlinne the booze lover; I like to spam two golden froths and think that she resorted to drinking as a result of having to live with her horrible predictions.
 

Weevil89

Junior Member
#13
OG.laloquaint;n10267412 said:
Whenever this card is used with Axeman/Derran or combo'd with Ithlinne, I just feel like throwing my controller across the room. How annoying is it that this card can give you a 15+ swing every turn? That amount goes through the roof with the right set up. I understand that the card by itself isn't very good, but let's be honest, hardly anybody uses it by itself. I hope CDPR changes this dumb and over-powered card in the next balance update.
Agreed. For me (and for most people I'd say) it's the use of double Tremors in Dwarves with Ithlinne. I have regularly been in situations where I have gone first and managed to get ahead by 30+ points only to be devastated by a 45+ point Tremors. No one card should be able to get you that much value. The only risk is how long you wait before using it, but it is so easy to set it up and maximise value with it. If CDPR don't nerf either Ithlinne or Tremors in the next patch, the meta will suffer for another month of Dorfs, Brouver, Eithne, etc. Come on CDPR!
 

Muffliato

Moderator
#14
I agree that the Ithlinne combo is way too strong. Tremors in itself isn't that bad IMO -- and I often play swarm myself so it does hurt.
 

Philologus

Junior Member
#15
Weevil89;n10269012 said:
Agreed. For me (and for most people I'd say) it's the use of double Tremors in Dwarves with Ithlinne. I have regularly been in situations where I have gone first and managed to get ahead by 30+ points only to be devastated by a 45+ point Tremors. No one card should be able to get you that much value. The only risk is how long you wait before using it, but it is so easy to set it up and maximise value with it. If CDPR don't nerf either Ithlinne or Tremors in the next patch, the meta will suffer for another month of Dorfs, Brouver, Eithne, etc. Come on CDPR!
I disagree with the sentiments within this thread. In the age of axemen, dwarf swarm, and NG solider boost/swarm, I think Tremors is one of the few tech cards to level the playing field. We all know the dwarf decks overpower at a pace that most other archetypes cannot match.
 

soph912

Junior Member
#16
Ithlinne has her drawbacks too. She is often very bad in a short round 3 (even if a deck runs Alzurs + Tremors the Tremors are often the only option left) and Tremors are the only good answer to "simply swarm the board and then Yennefer" - play which would be very popular without Ithlinne.
 

Theodrik

Junior Member
#17
Maybe tremors shouldn't have the spawn thing. Other then that, I see no problem with this card specifically. Ithlinne tho must be addressed because with any new bronze spell added to the game, it can break.
 

Rawls

Moderator
#18
I don't think Tremors is extremely OP, though it is a power card against dwarves since there are so many low powered cards. Against most other decks it normally gets 10-15 power depending if you get the guardian out of it in the best of circumstances (which ranges from decent-ish to great for a bronze).

I do think axemen should have their starting power reduced a smidge. And I think Ithlinne should be 1 power instead of 2.
 

Karfuss

Junior Member
#19
Rawls;n10269602 said:
I don't think Tremors is extremely OP, though it is a power card against dwarves since there are so many low powered cards. Against most other decks it normally gets 10-15 power depending if you get the guardian out of it in the best of circumstances (which ranges from decent-ish to great for a bronze).

I do think axemen should have their starting power reduced a smidge. And I think Ithlinne should be 1 power instead of 2.
Essentially this. Ithlinne paired with Tremors is extremely situational, and CAN be a 'God' play against certain deck types who throw that hand out, greeding for Round 1. Most notably against Dwarves and non-Nekker monster decks. Otherwise Tremors is a dead card, that is always out valued by a 20 value Alzur+Ithlinne and as a double removal, which undeniably is FAR more consistent.

Ithlinne has already been nerfed enough, now that she can't double up Alchemy effects.
 
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senatormolotov

Junior Member
#20
I think the only change Tremors needs is to have Lesser Guardian replaced with a Lesser D'ao or Imperial Golem. Ithlinne is a more serious problem than this card as any card that is 'balanced' becomes overtuned with her due to her design.