Triss as a potential relationship.

[norlak]

Triss as a potential relationship.

What griped me in The Witcher 2 is how the game never recognises our 'identity' choices in the Witcher 1 when it came to our feelings for Triss.

I wanted my Geralt to fall in love with her. That he did, and poured his heart out to Triss (yuk!) Yet in the Witcher 2, though there is clearly a thing between them, the boundries are never established. Is Geralt inlove, or is it just meaningless sex between good friends.

Now, you do get to 'express' that love if you play your cards right. Developing Geralt in The Witcher 2 is easy and diverse enough. I can choose dialogue options leading to Triss *first* indicating that my Geralt is very concerned for her.

When the Nilfgaardian asks us why we were putting our lives at risk for her, you also have dialogue options which establish that relationship. Yet when it comes to *their* dialogue...it never seems quite *there* if you know what I mean.

There is never an option to just do *insert cheesy romantic crap here.* Or *insert more cheesy romantic crap here.*

The game is a great at making a pre-set character *yours.* It's easy to spot how CDPR focused on motivations and ideals when it came to developing our Geralt. So Kudos! I just hope that this relationship will be developed more deeply later on. It gives us roleplaying oppurtunities and a chance to make Geralt truly unique.

And yes, I am a big fan of BioWare romances, I think you tell by now ) still... there's no better romance than a bromance, am I right Roche? xD

 

[luc0s]

I think as soon as Geralt finds Yennefer, he's going to dump Triss and go back to Yen. The relationship between Triss and Geralt never was as serious as Geralt's relationship with Triss.

I guess that in the end it will be a player's choice (assuming that Yen will return in The Witcher 3), but I think canon-wise, Geralt would seriously consider dumping Triss to get back to Yennefer.


Also, Geralt is never *your* character, he's Andrzej Sapkowski character. We can drastically change the story in The Witcher with our decisions, but our decisions do never really change Geralt, at least not fundamentally. He'll always be Geralt. And Geralt really just isn't the romantic type of guy, nor does he express his love casually. Geralt is an introvert guy who often keeps his feelings to himself.

 

[norlak]

I think as soon as Geralt finds Yennefer, he's going to dump Triss and go back to Yen. The relationship between Triss and Geralt never was as serious as Geralt's relationship with Triss.

I guess that in the end it will be a player's choice (assuming that Yen will return in The Witcher 3), but I think canon-wise, Geralt would seriously consider dumping Triss to get back to Yennefer.


Also, Geralt is never *your* character, he's Andrzej Sapkowski character. We can drastically change the story in The Witcher with our decisions, but our decisions do never really change Geralt, at least not fundamentally. He'll always be Geralt. And Geralt really just isn't the romantic type of guy, nor does he express his love casually. Geralt is an introvert guy who often keeps his feelings to himself.

I'm sorry, but the Geralt in the books does not match my Geralt. That's why there is a clean slate. For us to develop a new identity of sorts.

In the Witcher One, you can choose how Geralt feels about Triss, you can say what he wants, what he feels is best. My Geralt joined with the Scoi'atle because he believed in their ideals.

In 'The Blood of the Elves' Geralt remains neutral.

I'd be very dissapointed if, after all this build up, CDPR makes this development for us. *If* we meet Yen, it should be up to us. What's the point of putting RPG on the title if your not going to let us develop a character. Pre-set or no, Geralt is unique through the actions he makes and the motives we make for those actions.

I'm sure that someone picked Roche because he thought that Geralt owed him, but others picked him because they thought Geralt wanted to clear his name and stay in the side of the law...

And so, even if Geralt's personality changes little, we always weave his ideals and motives. Like two sides of the same coin... or in The Witcher's case six sides of the same DnD dice.

Still, that topic is drifting ever slowly to 'what is an RPG.' Hell, that's like answering the big question: "am I fat?" Damned if you do, damned if you don't hehe.

Edit: But never-the-less I see your point.

 

[username_2093396]

And how do you think people felt who chose Shani in TW1 but ended up in bed with Triss anyway? XD The Enhanced Edition did finally add a note in the journal explaining where Shani went, so I'm happy about that, but I think the Triss relationship in general was more of a plot device than an actual relationship. From your end as someone who liked Triss there wasn't enough friendly dialogue with her, and from my point of view I couldn't really tell her to back off and leave me alone

I feel like they're leading up to a conflict between Triss and Yennefer in TW3 so they couldn't have too much leeway in TW2 for us to either fully commit to Triss or completely break up with her. I expect TW3 will start off with a still somewhat ambiguous relationship between Geralt and Triss and then we'll finally have the option to either break it off or fully develop it as a real relationship.

Also, Geralt is never *your* character, he's Andrzej Sapkowski character. We can drastically change the story in The Witcher with our decisions, but our decisions do never really change Geralt, at least not fundamentally. He'll always be Geralt.

I'm not sure I agree with that. There are some decisions in the games that I don't think Geralt from the books would ever choose so I do think it's possible for the player to design Geralt as a somewhat different character. I think it would be more accurate to say that Geralt from the games will never be the "real" Geralt from the books, especially since there is player choice involved.

I do agree that it would be kind of weird to see Geralt get all mushy and declare his love for anyone though He seems like someone who prefers to express his emotions with actions rather than words.

 

[luc0s]

I'm not sure I agree with that. There are some decisions in the games that I don't think Geralt from the books would ever choose so I do think it's possible for the player to design Geralt as a somewhat different character. I think it would be more accurate to say that Geralt from the games will never be the "real" Geralt from the books, especially since there is player choice involved.

Could you give an example of a decision that the Geralt from the books would never make?


Well, I guess you're right though. The fact that Geralt completely lost his memory and identity at the beginning of TW1 does give us some leeway with Geralt's character development. If Geralt would ever do something in the games that would go against his former beliefs from the books, we could always blame it on his amnesia. Though the "amnesia excuse" only goes so far. Amnesia does not fundamentally change your personality. But it can change your personal views and possibly your beliefs.

 

[norlak]

"Could you give an example of a decision that the Geralt from the books would never make?"

I already made mentioned one. 'The Blood of the Elves.' I can mention three actually.

In that novel, he sleeps with Shani. Even though having a thing with Triss.

My Geralt is googly eyed with Triss and is faithful.

In that novel, he remains neutral about the scoi'atle threat, he wouldn't even help a friend because of it.

My Geralt would've risked his life for a friend (anyone touches Zoltan and I'll kill them.)

In that novel, Geralt has pathos for the non-humans. Or atleast, doesn't really care for all this racism.

In the Witcher One, there is an option to let the guys beat up Zoltan. In the Witcher 2, there's an option to let people beat up non-humans too.

The latter and former choices could be for many different things. It's up to you to decide why your Geralt does
these things.


By the way guys. I'm new here and I really don't know whats going on. The text box thing doesn't let me quote words, do fonts, make things italic or go bold... it's really confusing.

 

[green_abobo]

geralt cheats on triss constantly. i should know.

shes too good for him anyway. hey triss, if you sick of that dog, hit me up instead.

i can keep it in my pants, unless youre around of course.

^ same thing for me, if i use fast reply.

use add reply instead. the help icon is very useful too.

 

[luc0s]

"Could you give an example of a decision that the Geralt from the books would never make?"

I already made mentioned one. 'The Blood of the Elves.' I can mention three actually.

In that novel, he sleeps with Shani. Even though having a thing with Triss.

So? He also sleeps with Triss while having a thing with Yennefer. Geralt enjoys casual sex and is not really monogamous. Heck, he even sleeps with a mass-murderer who's potentially cursed. Geralt just doesn't give a fuck. xD

My Geralt is googly eyed with Triss and is faithful.

I don't like it when people say "my Geralt" because there is no such thing as "your Geralt". Rather I'd say "Geralt in my playthrough...".

And yeah, sure, it's possible that Geralt in your playthrough does not sleep with anyone else then Triss. Doesn't really change his personality that much. I mean I used to be a "party boy" too, but I'm not like that anymore. But I'm still the same person.

In that novel, he remains neutral about the scoia'tael threat, he wouldn't even help a friend because of it.

I haven't read The Blood of Elves yet, so I'll get back at you on this after I've read that book.

My Geralt would've risked his life for a friend (anyone touches Zoltan and I'll kill them.

Geralt has obviously become more of a people's person ever since his amnesia. This is not just "your Geralt" but everyone's Geralt.

In that novel, Geralt has pathos for the non-humans. Or atleast, doesn't really care for all this racism.

He does care, he just doesn't show it. Geralt knows how the elves feel because witchers also get discriminated. But Geralt is a person who does not seek pithy or support, he relies on himself.

By the way guys. I'm new here and I really don't know whats going on. The text box thing doesn't let me quote words, do fonts, make things italic or go bold... it's really confusing.

Just type [ q u o t e ] and [ / q u o t e ] to quote someone (without the spaces of course).

Bold = [ b ]

Italic = [ i ]

It's not that hard.

 

[username_2093396]

Could you give an example of a decision that the Geralt from the books would never make?

Like Norlak already mentioned, I don't think the Geralt from the books would ever side with the Order in TW1, and probably not the Scoia'tael either.

To give a new example that wasn't mentioned yet, several times in the books Geralt jumped in to rescue women from soldiers or angry mobs, so in TW2 on Iorveth's path I can't imagine Geralt leaving the elven women to burn to death.

Well, I guess you're right though. The fact that Geralt completely lost his memory and identity at the beginning of TW1 does give us some leeway with Geralt's character development. If Geralt would ever do something in the games that would go against his former beliefs from the books, we could always blame it on his amnesia. Though the "amnesia excuse" only goes so far. Amnesia does not fundamentally change your personality. But it can change your personal views and possibly your beliefs.

Yeah, pretty much The amnesia is clearly a plot device to explain why the player is allowed to make choices on Geralt's behalf which might not mesh with his real personality from the books. I'm fine with that because it's a game about making choices so they needed to explain it one way or another.

 

[Oloroar]

There is never an option to just do *insert cheesy romantic crap here.* Or *insert more cheesy romantic crap here.*

The truth is, Geralt is simply not that type of person - he just does not say things like that. He has always had difficulties expressing himself in relationships, just look at the codex entry for the Shani romance. Of course, that doesn't mean that he does not care deeply for her. After all, he risked his life and potentially screwed over the balance of power in the north to save her. The codex entries especially, which are told from Dandelion's perspective, paints a very romantic image between them.

@Ward Dragon

Spoiler

I just dont get you and other Triss haters. So Triss uses a love potion or "takes advantage" of a friends death (how can you take advantage of someones death - everyone thought Yennefer was dead, what the hell is wrong with making a move on someone you loved for years?), yet completely overlook all the crap Geralt and Yennefer do.

Remember the part in the books when Yennefer never actually loved Geralt, and it took Geralt wishing upon a genie to initiate their relationship. So:

* Using love potion for a one night stand = Triss is a manipulative Bitch.

* Using one of the most powerful magical entities in the world to force someone into a long-term relationship with you = Geralt is so awesome!!!

Then you people point at the fact that Triss kept the lodges existence a secret - guess what, so did Yennefer. She even took Ciri to them behind Geralt's back, and never told him about it.

Oh, and not mentioning Yennefer in TW1 - neither did anyone else. Guess that makes Zoltan and Dandelion manipulative bitches, huh?

Face it - no matter what Triss has done, Yennefer or Geralt have done much worse. The amount of "bitching" or "manipulating" Triss does doesn't even come close to the bitching and manipulating that Yennefer does, even after knowing Ciri (see above example). The game even acknowledges it, Dandelion says that Triss is the only sorceress he knows that has a heart, or Cynthia's remarks about her not being cruel/manipulative enough. Even Radovid gives her special credit in TW1!

Triss is a much better person than Yennefer ever was, and a better lover, since she actually loved Geralt and was willing to sacrifice her life for him despite him rejecting her - and she does so without the influence of a Genie.
Is she perfect? No - she has her insecurities and bad moments. Does she deserve all the hate you and Dona give her? Hell no.

You are just hating on her for the sake of hating on her /rant.

I still love you anyway, Dragon Ward

 

[username_2093396]

I think it's easiest if I just put my replies inside your quote:

@Ward Dragon

Spoiler

I just dont get you and other Triss haters. So Triss uses a love potion or "takes advantage" of a friends death (how can you take advantage of someones death - everyone thought Yennefer was dead, what the hell is wrong with making a move on someone you loved for years?), yet completely overlook all the crap Geralt and Yennefer do.

Remember the part in the books when Yennefer never actually loved Geralt, and it took Geralt wishing upon a genie to initiate their relationship. So:

* Using love potion for a one night stand = Triss is a manipulative Bitch.

* Using one of the most powerful magical entities in the world to force someone into a long-term relationship with you = Geralt is so awesome!!!

I don't think Geralt wished for Yennefer to love him. I think he was desperate to save her life so he wished that he and she would spend the rest of their lives together because that would mean the genie had to let her live as long as Geralt did.

Then you people point at the fact that Triss kept the lodges existence a secret - guess what, so did Yennefer. She even took Ciri to them behind Geralt's back, and never told him about it.

It really put me off of Triss in TW1 when she was bragging to the person in the mirror (Philippa?) that she had Geralt wrapped around her finger and he didn't suspect a thing. And then in TW2 she knew damned well that Sile had very likely hired the Kingslayer to kill Demavend, but she refused to tell Geralt about it. She just acted catty towards Sile and then when Geralt asked about it she refused to explain to Geralt her reasons for not trusting Sile. Instead she told Cedric and had him come with her to investigate Sile. Why does she trust Cedric more than Geralt? She just met him XD

And with Yennefer, that was before the Lodge existed. Yennefer was bringing Ciri to the mage's school for protection, and it wasn't behind Geralt's back. He had trusted her to protect Ciri however she thought best, which is what she was doing. She even took Geralt along with her once Ciri contrived to reunite them

Oh, and not mentioning Yennefer in TW1 - neither did anyone else. Guess that makes Zoltan and Dandelion manipulative bitches, huh?

It wasn't that she didn't mention Yennefer. It was that she played it off like she was Geralt's girlfriend all along when in truth he consistently refused to sleep with her aside from that incident mentioned in Blood of Elves. He really didn't love her nor want a relationship with her in the books, so it's awfully low of her to take advantage of his amnesia to try to trick him into thinking they belong together.

Face it - no matter what Triss has done, Yennefer or Geralt have done much worse. The amount of "bitching" or "manipulating" Triss does doesn't even come close to the bitching and manipulating that Yennefer does, even after knowing Ciri (see above example). The game even acknowledges it, Dandelion says that Triss is the only sorceress he knows that has a heart, or Cynthia's remarks about her not being cruel/manipulative enough. Even Radovid gives her special credit in TW1!

Triss is supposedly Yennefer's friend, but she gets jealous and coldly waits for an opportunity to take advantage of one of their fights to seduce Geralt. What kind of person does that to their friends? Especially since she knows it's very likely that Yennefer and Geralt will eventually make up and get back together again since they've always made up in the past. She betrayed her friend out of petty jealousy. Sure she's soft-hearted for a sorceress, but that's really not saying much considering that sorceresses in general seem to be heartless.

Triss is a much better person than Yennefer ever was, and a better lover, since she actually loved Geralt and was willing to sacrifice her life for him despite him rejecting her - and she does so without the influence of a Genie.
Is she perfect? No - she has her insecurities and bad moments. Does she deserve all the hate you and Dona give her? Hell no.

Wait, what? When did Triss sacrifice her life for Geralt? It was Yennefer who died trying to save him (although I guess she's not really dead now either due to the Wild Hunt).

You are just hating on her for the sake of hating on her /rant.

No, I'm hating her because she's a terrible friend to Yennefer, and because she doesn't trust Geralt enough to tell him the truth (specifically about the Lodge) and that makes things much more difficult in the game because he doesn't know what he's really up against. I feel like if Triss was really Yennefer's friend she never would have gotten jealous and seduced Geralt, and if Triss really loved Geralt she never would have lied to him and let him walk blindly into a trap set by Philippa. Triss seems really self-centered and doesn't consider how her actions affect everyone else.

I still love you anyway, Dragon Ward

 

[freesia.430]

The truth is, Geralt is simply not that type of person - he just does not say things like that. He has always had difficulties expressing himself in relationships, just look at the codex entry for the Shani romance. Of course, that doesn't mean that he does not care deeply for her. After all, he risked his life and potentially screwed over the balance of power in the north to save her. The codex entries especially, which are told from Dandelion's perspective, paints a very romantic image between them.

@Ward Dragon

Spoiler

I just dont get you and other Triss haters. So Triss uses a love potion or "takes advantage" of a friends death (how can you take advantage of someones death - everyone thought Yennefer was dead, what the hell is wrong with making a move on someone you loved for years?), yet completely overlook all the crap Geralt and Yennefer do.

Remember the part in the books when Yennefer never actually loved Geralt, and it took Geralt wishing upon a genie to initiate their relationship. So:

* Using love potion for a one night stand = Triss is a manipulative Bitch.

* Using one of the most powerful magical entities in the world to force someone into a long-term relationship with you = Geralt is so awesome!!!

Then you people point at the fact that Triss kept the lodges existence a secret - guess what, so did Yennefer. She even took Ciri to them behind Geralt's back, and never told him about it.

Oh, and not mentioning Yennefer in TW1 - neither did anyone else. Guess that makes Zoltan and Dandelion manipulative bitches, huh?

Face it - no matter what Triss has done, Yennefer or Geralt have done much worse. The amount of "bitching" or "manipulating" Triss does doesn't even come close to the bitching and manipulating that Yennefer does, even after knowing Ciri (see above example). The game even acknowledges it, Dandelion says that Triss is the only sorceress he knows that has a heart, or Cynthia's remarks about her not being cruel/manipulative enough. Even Radovid gives her special credit in TW1!

Triss is a much better person than Yennefer ever was, and a better lover, since she actually loved Geralt and was willing to sacrifice her life for him despite him rejecting her - and she does so without the influence of a Genie.
Is she perfect? No - she has her insecurities and bad moments. Does she deserve all the hate you and Dona give her? Hell no.

You are just hating on her for the sake of hating on her /rant.

Oh my goodness. You just maneged to sum up my thoughts exactly! I just never found the strength to get it all together. Thanks!!

 

[JayShadow]

"Could you give an example of a decision that the Geralt from the books would never make?"

I already made mentioned one. 'The Blood of the Elves.' I can mention three actually.

In that novel, he sleeps with Shani. Even though having a thing with Triss.

In that novel, he remains neutral about the scoi'atle threat, he wouldn't even help a friend because of it.

I tagged my reply in case anyone is sensitive to slightly more detailed book spoilers. But I had to point out that these two statements are wrong.

Spoiler

In Blood of Elves Triss had major feelings for Geralt but he didn't have feelings back for her. This is mentioned in the book many many times. The thing he had with Triss was way in the past and even then she was essentially just a brief rebound from Yennifer.

He talks about neutrality all the time but still didn't hesitate to kill all the Scoia'tael when they attacked his people. Ciri even points out after the fight that he didn't remain neutral.

 

[username_2093396]

Spoiler

He talks about neutrality all the time but still didn't hesitate to kill all the Scoia'tael when they attacked his people. Ciri even points out after the fight that he didn't remain neutral.

Spoiler

The way I see it, in the books Geralt refuses to join any overall cause, but he does defend individual people if they get in danger near him. That's why in the games I think it would be in-character for Geralt to save people who are in danger, especially if they are his friends, but I don't think he would join a larger cause even if he had helped some of its individual members.

In any case, that's my interpretation of it I haven't read the last two books yet so maybe my opinion will change in the future.

 

[tomigun46]

Really liked the way the Witcher 1 handled the releationships, choosing between Shani and Triss, also had to work at it as well...

 

[Dona.794]

-snip-

Oh wow thanks for mentioning me, I wasn't even participating in this thread.

 

[Oloroar]

Oh wow thanks for mentioning me, I wasn't even participating in this thread.

The wishroom - plus you are always on our minds!

 

[Dona.794]

The wishroom - plus you are always on our minds!

One post in which I say "I don't really like her" makes me a big hater? OK.

 

[norlak]

So? He also sleeps with Triss while having a thing with Yennefer. Geralt enjoys casual sex and is not really monogamous. Heck, he even sleeps with a mass-murderer who's potentially cursed. Geralt just doesn't give a fuck. xD

I didn't sleep with anyone other than Triss. Even when it was offered and the choice came to refuse he would. Geralt from the books would just pound that ass.

I don't like it when people say "my Geralt" because there is no such thing as "your Geralt". Rather I'd say "Geralt in my playthrough...".

And yeah, sure, it's possible that Geralt in your playthrough does not sleep with anyone else then Triss. Doesn't really change his personality that much. I mean I used to be a "party boy" too, but I'm not like that anymore. But I'm still the same person.

The same could be said for any other pre-set character then. But looking at the examples I've given, you can always set Geralt apart from his 'canon.'

The reasons he joins these causes are entierly up to you. The game doesn't tell me why Geralt joined Roche. Sure he comments on it, but never says anything like "I joined because I admire their passions" etc...

That there is pure character development and the core of any RPG.

As I said. Pre-set characters in RPGs are, at their core, the same. All our Geralts get annoyed at the same thing, or finds the same thing attractive. But his actions, ideals, motives... the game leaves it ALL up to us, and that's why Geralt is defined through our choices. CDPR never develops the character. We do. And that makes it 'ours' because your playthrough is different to mine, but that's because your Geralt might have helped Saskia because he's a Witcher stuck in the middle 'like a candle up the arse.' My Geralt joined up because he believed in her ideals.

And that choice is clearly given straight after you help her with her... illness...

I haven't read The Blood of Elves yet, so I'll get back at you on this after I've read that book.

Shame, you'd see my point clearer. But hey! What you're waiting for? Go get it, it's freaking awesome!

Geralt has obviously become more of a people's person ever since his amnesia. This is not just "your Geralt" but everyone's Geralt.

Not if you chose 'neutrality.' There is obviously a 'don't get involved' thing in his head. And also we have the epilouge of TW2, which clearly gives us a choice to give a fuck about the commoners who are going to be burned alive, or just move on.

He does care, he just doesn't show it. Geralt knows how the elves feel because witchers also get discriminated. But Geralt is a person who does not seek pithy or support, he relies on himself.

You could say otherwise, and do things that generally contradict that like: helping Zoltan or not (TW1,) helping a few dwarves here and there in the Flotsam riots. Giving Malena to the authorities or not.

I think your understimating the power of 'choice' and the impact it has on any character within RPGs. Punching the noble in the La Vallete castle can say a bunch of different things about Geralt:

Unpatient.
Can't stand bullshit.
Generally doesn't like the nobility.
He likes punching people.

Even NOT to do something says something about Geralt.

Not doing fist-fights. My Geralt found it a waste of time and money. These people were drunkards and bufoons and no match for a Witcher.

Other Geralts might have passed because they didn't really see the point.


But saying all that. I respect that Geralt has his foundations, which exist in every one. And reading this thread, I've just realised that his 'unwillingness' to be romantic is part of that foundation.

 

[norlak]

I can't open the spoiler tags... really, I hate being new to forums. Especially ones that are 'tricksy and false!'

Smeagol reference FTW! xD