I don't think the Lodge was looking for her. They probably learned her whereabouts from Assire and Fringilla.
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So who gets it the worst is hard to decide people
Sheala.
I don't think the Lodge was looking for her. They probably learned her whereabouts from Assire and Fringilla.
---------- Updated at 06:29 PM ----------
Sheala.
Sure, why not?
You are making a mistake confusing me with some guy Who read all Witcher books, love Yennefer and will defend her against all evils.
I played all the games.
I read less than 100 Witcher pages.
I had enough Triss by now. She bores me. Yennefer is fun. Shani is fun.
But obviously I don't hate Triss, Just think does not deserve more romance time. That time should be spent somewhere else, even Cyberpunk 2077.
Indeed, Dijkstra is "nice" because of political reasons, as he associates Yennefer with Nilfgaard, and would prefer Geralt to leave to Kovir.
No one asked for exactly the same amount of content in main quests, although what is in the second and third acts of the game is very far from equal:
Unique lines of dialogue:
q401 0 | 183 (Ugly Baby *)
q403 32 | 46 (The Battle of Kaer Morhen)
q310 125 | 110 (Final Preparations *)
q210 9 | 83 (Battle Preparations *)
q501 14 | 22 (On Thin Ice)
q502 0 | 41 (Tedd Deireadh, The Final Age **)
Total 180 | 485 (all the above)
Other 608 | 688 (the rest of the game)
* includes sub-quests like It Takes Three to Tango, A Final Kindness, etc.
** includes a few lines of cut Yennefer content (dialogue about the Lodge)
q401 0 | 183 (Ugly Baby *)
q403 32 | 46 (The Battle of Kaer Morhen)
q310 125 | 110 (Final Preparations *)
q210 9 | 83 (Battle Preparations *)
q501 14 | 22 (On Thin Ice)
q502 0 | 41 (Tedd Deireadh, The Final Age **)
Total 180 | 485 (all the above)
Other 608 | 688 (the rest of the game)
* includes sub-quests like It Takes Three to Tango, A Final Kindness, etc.
** includes a few lines of cut Yennefer content (dialogue about the Lodge)
In any case, as already explained, "content equalization" is not the real issue, although the unequal treatment of the romances in particular (unlike in TW1, even though Shani is also less important to the main quest there) is not explained by the story. Most of the problems I listed in this post have nothing to do with that, and exist regardless of the relative quantity of Yennefer content, or anything in the previous games or books.
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Complete Wticher 1 and 2 Triss-related scenes
I have recordings here of all the major scenes including or related to Triss Merigold in Witcher 1 and 2. I also posted these in the Triss group pages where they will be easier to find later. For most of the major conversations I have all of the different dialogue options.
Looking back, I found I actually like Witcher 1 Triss. If you get past the Yen and Philippa lines given to her, she's a very good character. She's much more of a sorceress in Witcher 1- confident, assertive, meddling in everything, making all sorts of plans, but at the same time she's a loyal friend and ally. In Witcher 2 it really feels like Triss is off her game- which is understandable given that she's lost her king and country almost overnight. I really like Triss in Witcher 2, but the Witcher 1 version is probably the better character.
Witcher 1:
0:00:00-0:22:24 Prologue
0:17:08- first "romance" scene
0:22:24-1:07:00 Chapter 3
0:24:15- arrival in Triss's house- sorceress megascope conversation
0:29:55- street gossip
0:31:46- finding and deciding about Alvin
0:35:58- drinking with the boys
0:41:14- Posh Reception
0:57:07- finding Radovid
0:59:37- second "romance" scene
1:00:35- planning attack on Salamandra base
1:07:00-1:17:29 Chapter 4
1:11:24- letter from Triss
1:13:13- Alvin and Triss flashback
1:17:30-1:29:00 Chapter 5
1:18:30- talking about future with Triss
1:24:32- Triss helps fight Salamandra
1:29:00-1:51:43 Epilogue
1:31:04- Triss and Foltest alliance
1:35:30- preparing to fight a Zeugl
1:39:02- Grandmaster's vision
1:47:48- ending slides
Witcher 2: part 1
0:00:30- waking up in tent
0:08:35- first dragon encounter
0:20:04- escaping to the boat
0:23:51- Chapter 1 start
0:27:59- butterfly spell
0:33:44- talking in the inn, meeting Sile
0:46:37- examining kayran site
0:51:25- conversation about blue stripes and memory, Geralt's tattoo
0:59:37- finding Ciaran and learning about roses of remembrance
1:07:59- elven garden
1:18:26- after bath conversation about future
1:29:09- Philippa megascope conversation
1:37:38- Dethmold megascope conversation
Witcher 2: part 2
0:06:45- Yarpen Zigrin story about Triss
0:17:45- asking the Troll about Triss
0:35:59- Roche path learning about figurine
0:41:48- Iorveth path learning about figurine
0:56:58- decompression by Assire
1:01:53- Secrets of Loc Muinne and Cynthia
1:08:32- vision of Triss in dungeon
1:09:24- Iorveth path Philippa in dungeon
1:15:43- Roche path Radovid
1:20:20- outcome from not helping Triss
1:29:09- choosing to rescue Triss
1:37:40- conversations with Triss in dungeon
1:52:11- council meeting
2:01:14- Epilogue
I have recordings here of all the major scenes including or related to Triss Merigold in Witcher 1 and 2. I also posted these in the Triss group pages where they will be easier to find later. For most of the major conversations I have all of the different dialogue options.
Looking back, I found I actually like Witcher 1 Triss. If you get past the Yen and Philippa lines given to her, she's a very good character. She's much more of a sorceress in Witcher 1- confident, assertive, meddling in everything, making all sorts of plans, but at the same time she's a loyal friend and ally. In Witcher 2 it really feels like Triss is off her game- which is understandable given that she's lost her king and country almost overnight. I really like Triss in Witcher 2, but the Witcher 1 version is probably the better character.
Witcher 1:
0:00:00-0:22:24 Prologue
0:17:08- first "romance" scene
0:22:24-1:07:00 Chapter 3
0:24:15- arrival in Triss's house- sorceress megascope conversation
0:29:55- street gossip
0:31:46- finding and deciding about Alvin
0:35:58- drinking with the boys
0:41:14- Posh Reception
0:57:07- finding Radovid
0:59:37- second "romance" scene
1:00:35- planning attack on Salamandra base
1:07:00-1:17:29 Chapter 4
1:11:24- letter from Triss
1:13:13- Alvin and Triss flashback
1:17:30-1:29:00 Chapter 5
1:18:30- talking about future with Triss
1:24:32- Triss helps fight Salamandra
1:29:00-1:51:43 Epilogue
1:31:04- Triss and Foltest alliance
1:35:30- preparing to fight a Zeugl
1:39:02- Grandmaster's vision
1:47:48- ending slides
Witcher 2: part 1
0:00:30- waking up in tent
0:08:35- first dragon encounter
0:20:04- escaping to the boat
0:23:51- Chapter 1 start
0:27:59- butterfly spell
0:33:44- talking in the inn, meeting Sile
0:46:37- examining kayran site
0:51:25- conversation about blue stripes and memory, Geralt's tattoo
0:59:37- finding Ciaran and learning about roses of remembrance
1:07:59- elven garden
1:18:26- after bath conversation about future
1:29:09- Philippa megascope conversation
1:37:38- Dethmold megascope conversation
Witcher 2: part 2
0:06:45- Yarpen Zigrin story about Triss
0:17:45- asking the Troll about Triss
0:35:59- Roche path learning about figurine
0:41:48- Iorveth path learning about figurine
0:56:58- decompression by Assire
1:01:53- Secrets of Loc Muinne and Cynthia
1:08:32- vision of Triss in dungeon
1:09:24- Iorveth path Philippa in dungeon
1:15:43- Roche path Radovid
1:20:20- outcome from not helping Triss
1:29:09- choosing to rescue Triss
1:37:40- conversations with Triss in dungeon
1:52:11- council meeting
2:01:14- Epilogue
Thanks, that is a useful resource, perhaps it could be linked to from the OP ?
By the way, I have a large text file that contains all dialogues extracted from TW3 with a script. Perhaps the relevant parts of that could be of some use as well, although the script would still need more work to produce nicer output. It currently needs some manual editing to fix the order of the dialogue segments and other issues, which is not always easy in the case of complex conversation trees.
Edit: added Witcher 2 dialogues - the script for processing TW2 format .w2scene files is new, so it may not have extracted everything correctly.
Edit 2: there is a newer version of these files in this post.
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I have to say even though I absolutely despise Triss's character throughout the majority of the first game, my favorite thing about her in the entirety of the trilogy is actually the prologue at Kaer Morhen. I thought she was portrayed flawlessly there (except for the outfit of course). Her interactions with the witchers were spot on and her personality was great too. She acted exactly how imagined her to act post the books. She was close to her book character, but not too close. Braver, more confident, more commanding. But unfortunately she behaves like a poor imitation of Yennefer in the second half of the game and it completely ruined the character for me. She had some good moments in TW2 and TW3, but they were just moments. For me in terms of her portrayal in the games nothing came close to the prologue of TW1.
I agree with this- unfortunately there was nothing like that in W3 when she is back at Kaer Morhen.
I don't see the Yennefer comparison at all. They give her a Yen line ripped out of the books, but everything else sounds more like a mix of book Triss, Philippa, and Keira. They made Triss more like the Lodge, not more like Yen.
Only now i know that Yarpen just tell Geralt the story in Blood of Elves books :shock:
Thank Trireme :cheers2:
Here is what I think is funny with all arguments concerning Triss vs Yen people are overlooking an obvious thing , both want Geralt to change somehow . Triss wants some one that has some moral ideology with emotional understanding . Yen may want a little bit of the same but she is more concerned with his ability to fit in socially whether it is how he dresses or holds himself but wants Geralt to be who he is for the most part . Either way these changes they want from Geralt has been integrated through the series . I think it is a matter that both women were concerned with showing Geralt he has something to lose beyond his life . I think Triss stands to lose quite a bit she invested much in Geralt the fact they split at the end of Witcher 2 meant nothing see was still invested as parts of the earlier conversation point out in Novigrad . I just thought it is important to understand that some of Geralt is what the women in his life have done to him. Behind every great man is a strong woman or women in this case .
Look, I'm well aware that Yennefer have much more dialogues in the main quest, but Triss content should fit her in the lore friendly manner - imo Triss (as an advisor of Foltest and Temerian patriot) should have been involved in much more complex political game and the war outcome.
Replacing Yennefer with Triss in the final chapter wouldn't work because there is no believable way to explain why would Yennefer wait on the sidelines while someone else tries to help and save her daughter. I understand that it would be all right as a game mechanic to account player's choice in that situation, but, had you read the books, you'd know that there is nothing that would stop Yennefer from acting in that situation, maternal instinct is what drives her in the novels.
About not having an option to correct other people that you broke up with Yennefer - it would make sense only for Eskel and Lambert, people who know Triss and Geralt cares about. About other people, try to look at that this way - Dandelion have made a countless ballads about Geralt/Yen over the last 20 years, people have heard them and when they see them together they naturally assume that they are couple. Geralt is not the person who would go around correcting people he barely knows about his love life, it was weird to me that we had an option to correct Dijkstra about Triss, for example, completely ooc for Geralt.
In the end, I guess, the writers tried to find the right balance between giving the options to the players and respecting their own lore. It was simply impossible to satisfy both sides all the time. If you look at Yennefer thread you'll see that people are not exactly thrilled with everything in the game concerning her
. I would trade in a heartbeat those 1.10 Yen romance addition for one proper Ciri/Yen scene.
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@Trireme :cheers:
Well...in 1st withcer she has Lodge support, has success in political theme in Temeria. In tw2 she is "outlaw" for Lodge and Temeria, and also Geralt starts to remember his past...defeat on all fronts :teeth:
Yeah. I suppose if she would be voiced by the same actress as in tw2/3 (Her voice in tw1 more mature) and these "vicarious" dialogues will be replaced by unique - it could be same character like in tw/tw3.
Even joke about illusion and orgasm is fitting fine. She could heared it from Philippa...but (part of the) dialogue about the house, like in "Time of Contempt" - made me feel like this :eredinfacepalm:
Yep. But whole main story in TW3 seems prevents moments like this. "We have no time", "Ciri is in danger", "We must save tha mages", "Wild Hunt will come soon", "We need to hurry" and etc. No time for rest and long conversations like with Shani.
---------- Updated at 10:26 AM ----------
And Cerys an Craite...in a name of "RPG and players choice" this dialogue option should exist.
Well...in 1st withcer she has Lodge support, has success in political theme in Temeria. In tw2 she is "outlaw" for Lodge and Temeria, and also Geralt starts to remember his past...defeat on all fronts :teeth:
Yeah. I suppose if she would be voiced by the same actress as in tw2/3 (Her voice in tw1 more mature) and these "vicarious" dialogues will be replaced by unique - it could be same character like in tw/tw3.
Even joke about illusion and orgasm is fitting fine. She could heared it from Philippa...but (part of the) dialogue about the house, like in "Time of Contempt" - made me feel like this :eredinfacepalm:
Yep. But whole main story in TW3 seems prevents moments like this. "We have no time", "Ciri is in danger", "We must save tha mages", "Wild Hunt will come soon", "We need to hurry" and etc. No time for rest and long conversations like with Shani.
---------- Updated at 10:26 AM ----------
And Cerys an Craite...in a name of "RPG and players choice" this dialogue option should exist.
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Perhaps, though, I'm not entirely sure that Geralt would be eager to discuss his private life with Cerys (who might not even know who Triss is). I still don't get why did she ask him about Yennefer in the first place, was that flirting or just an explanation to the player how other people sees his relationship with Yen?
But, I understand what you mean and perhaps "bending the rules" to allow reactivity to player's choice would be fine in that situation
But he still continue to discuss his relationship with Yen and no possibility to abort dialogue even with phrase - "it's past".
Yeah...lets discuss this relations with third persons, like Cerys, and avoid interraction with main characters. :-
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Like I said, it would be all right for me if the dialogue that starts at 0:25 is adjusted to accommodate player's choice, but nothing else in the video implies that Geralt and Yennefer are back together. Why they didn't change it in 1.10 patch? I don't know, perhaps it was just impractical to call all of Cerys's VA to record her reaction on Geralt's answer, which would be just one or two of lines of dialogue
Not all quests are directly related to Ciri, and is it believable that Triss does not help Geralt at all in the later stages of the game, or even have meaningful dialogue or other interaction, even though he is now her lover (I know its hard to accept for some, but that path exists in the game), while she did help earlier (to the extent of letting witch hunters capture and torture her) over an entire quest line when not in a relationship and could just as well told him to go back to Yennefer ? Once again, it is not just an issue of less content, but making a character that is believable, consistent over the game, and feels "alive", something CDPR are presumably good at when they are actually trying. Quantity wise, The Witcher 2 does not have that much Triss content either, and she is missing from the whole second act of the game, yet you do not see complaints because it does not suffer from the problems that TW3 does.
The developers themselves admitted that there are issues that need to be fixed, I am not sure if they did that to any of the other content related complaints or suggestions which were either rejected or just ignored. The additions in patch 1.10 made some improvements, but it is clear that rather limited resources were allocated to implementing them. I doubt any more content changes are planned to The Witcher 3, though, other than the second expansion.
Eskel, Lambert, and maybe Vesemir would already be a major improvement compared to nothing at all in that section of the game. There are already dialogues in that quest that discuss Geralt's love life, but they only react to the Yennefer choice. One possible explanation is that "Ugly Baby" (which is internally named part_1/q401_konsylium in the data files) was originally designed to be played before Now or Never (part_2/q309_casablanca), and their order was changed late in the development of the game. In that case, the entirely one sided reaction to the player's choice is indeed a "bug" that exists only because there was not enough time to properly modify the quest to account for the change in design.
There could have been dialogues with Dandelion, too, and perhaps Zoltan, but this is less of an issue. At least it was possible to talk to them in The Witcher 1.
In general, in situations where Geralt is already willing to talk about his love life, the dialogue should account for all possible choices. If it does not, that is most likely because there was not enough time and resources to fully implement it.
Maybe if the Dijkstra dialogue was in the second or third act, there would have been no option to correct him.
Respecting their own lore includes consistency with the previous two games, and most importantly within TW3 itself.
Maybe more Ciri/Yennefer scenes were simply not planned ? It does not look like something that was left half-finished in the game, with the amount of resources spent on those two characters, I find it hard to believe that almost no interaction between them over the entire game is anything other than a deliberate writing or design decision. Book readers may not like it, but for someone who only plays the game, there is no obvious problem. And I think the developers even said in an interview that the age difference between the books and the game allowed them more liberties regarding Ciri's character than that of the others.
@sv3672 I've never advocated removing Triss option from the game, I don't hate her, so you don't need to defend her from me, or the need for her additions (another matter is what I think about the quality of those additions).
What we disagree on is what is believable for these characters - I don't see how Yennefer's or Triss's role in the story changes regarding Geralt's romance choice. You are choosing the partner for Geralt, not the mother figure for Ciri. Cut Yennefer, paste Triss for the certain 2nd and 3rd Act quests just because player chose her is not believable for me and is inconsistent with their in-game portrayal.
I agree about Dandelion and Zoltan not talking with Triss at the Inn, it was something that was weird for me too. Again, regardless of player's choices, they should be talking in the background about their days in Vizima, Flotsam, etc, and player could join their conversation if he wants.
The previous games have different stories than TW3. CDPR was not obliged to write the plot for TW3 in which Triss would be as important as she was in the previous games. TW3, for better or worse, acts more as a sequel to the books than TW2, so the woman Geralt spent most of the time in them will obviously be more important to the overall plot.
About Ciri/Yen, I have no illusion that the any change is likely, but their relationship strikes me as exactly something half-finished. For such situation there is neither build-up nor resolution in the game. It simply exists for no apparent reason.
What we disagree on is what is believable for these characters - I don't see how Yennefer's or Triss's role in the story changes regarding Geralt's romance choice. You are choosing the partner for Geralt, not the mother figure for Ciri. Cut Yennefer, paste Triss for the certain 2nd and 3rd Act quests just because player chose her is not believable for me and is inconsistent with their in-game portrayal.
I agree about Dandelion and Zoltan not talking with Triss at the Inn, it was something that was weird for me too. Again, regardless of player's choices, they should be talking in the background about their days in Vizima, Flotsam, etc, and player could join their conversation if he wants.
The previous games have different stories than TW3. CDPR was not obliged to write the plot for TW3 in which Triss would be as important as she was in the previous games. TW3, for better or worse, acts more as a sequel to the books than TW2, so the woman Geralt spent most of the time in them will obviously be more important to the overall plot.
About Ciri/Yen, I have no illusion that the any change is likely, but their relationship strikes me as exactly something half-finished. For such situation there is neither build-up nor resolution in the game. It simply exists for no apparent reason.
I doubt they were not planned as that would mean the developers did not get the original (far superior) work in the first place...
Yet in other areas they obviously do get it. In other complex areas and themes. Basically we have only 2 possibilities :
A: VERY poor writing and planning. Mixed in with BAD game design.
B: Lack of time and resources. Which sucks greatly.
As I said here, this mistake impacts Triss as well. And the game as a piece of art. And gamers... and everyone really.
*and it is not even the biggest mistake, just one of the biggest*
There is not much time for interaction between the characters during the Battle of Kaer Morhen quest, although even what is there was not used very well. That quest is mostly focused on fighting the Wild Hunt. Ugly Baby would have been a better opportunity for interaction with the witchers and maybe Yennefer as well.
I have to say i've never been particularly animated by this issue. I'm glad they focused on reactivity to romance to major characters in the patch.
In hindsight it would have been better if the line had been originally conceived in the past tense rather than the present('What drew you to her?")