Triss Merigold of Maribor (All Spoilers) Resurgence

+
A rather pessimistic view, don't you think? I believe CDPR very much is interested in what we think and if they have the slightest bit of business sense, which they clearly have, do not believe they're the 'big I am' right now. They are most likely reading this forum, taking notes from the best threads, and, once the expansion is finished, I should imagine will have discussions internally if not about what future content, if any, to provide to this game but their future direction as a company. Rather than complaining that they've become some egotistical, maniacal corporate, lay out your concerns and ideas in a coherent manner. You never know, they might just listen.

It is realistic. :(

If they have business sense they will look at what ACTUALLY sells. Not what we say sells. What the "hardcore" wants is not what sells nor what the average consumer actually wants.

I hope they would listen. But I'd rather have low expectation. That way if good thing happen I will be happy and surprised. If bad thing happen, at least I wont be as jaded.
 

Guest 3847602

Guest
A) says they want to go find their ex-girlfriend on their own

That option doesn't really exists in the game, I've already answered to you what are the actual options in that conversation.

B) leaves you in the torture chamber to rot.

That choice isn't necessarily pro-Triss vs anti-Triss, it is about doing something for yourself vs doing something for the greater good (the quests where you're helping Roche and Iorveth are even called "For Temeria!" and "For a Higher Cause!", not "Screw you, Triss!")
Even if you're saving Triss, it's not automatically the declaration of eternal love, you're allowed to have 2 other reasons for freeing her.

If they don't result in a breakup nothing will!

Whether helping Roche and Iorveth would result in Triss dumping Geralt or not, we will never know for sure, your guess is as good as mine. They leave Loc Muinne together, just like if Geralt saved her personally and then the credits roll.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I bought the package on Steam that includes the expansion packs. As I feel right now, I doubt I'll play HoS or Blood and Wine unless Blood and Wine gives Geralt the kind of story he deserves. Triss, too. Even Yen. Hell, any of the major characters.

I did not buy them yet, but for those who did, the only reason not to play the expansions is that they would make the base game look bad in comparison. :) And it is most likely that none of the major characters will have a significant role (beyond just saying a few lines about the events of the expansion for the purpose of continuity, like in HoS) in Blood and Wine. If they are to have substantial new content at all, that could be in an enhanced edition, but I think it is doubtful, even more so after all the negative reactions to the patch.

Agreed, the problem with Triss' romance isn't the writing, it's the disjointed nature of it. Yen's romance is organic, (re)developing over the course of the game where as Triss' romance is reduced to a series of quests which turns it in to a mini-game, a common mistake game development involving romances. What was needed, what is needed is for Triss to have an expanded role in terms of her on-screen time in order to provide time for writing that allows that romance to (re)develop organically as well.

In my opinion, it is not only about romance, but a general lack of screen time later in the game (there are some possibly interesting statistics about characters in each act of the main quest in this post). More involvement in quests indirectly also allows for better developing a relationship, and it is also content that is useful for most players regardless of their choices.

The game doesn't need an Enhanced Edition because any enhancements can simply be patched in via GOG or Steam. It allows them to get new content to the customer faster than sitting there and re-designing the game for an updated boxed version. The reason they are tight lipped on any future content is most likely because they're focusing all development efforts on the next Expansion and rightly so.

It may be made in the second half of the year for some additional sales, although to be honest I would not expect major content changes, but rather features that are not too expensive to implement, but make the game more attractive to new customers.
 
I do not know where the "you can give the rose to Triss in TW2 or not" comes from.

Option 1: "here you are."
Option 2: "uhm, this is awkward." - "Don't be silly, Geralt. It's just a myth. Just give it to me."

Not sure how Option 3: "Geralt refused to take the redhead along for the hike and found the elven bath by himself" plays out, as I always wanted the magical resistance, but I am quite sure he'll also have to talk to her after the expedition and give it to her anyway.

He gives it to her in both cases. How else could Phil or Cynthia snatch it from her to get the magic going on Saskia? That happens in any event.
 
A rather pessimistic view, don't you think? I believe CDPR very much is interested in what we think and if they have the slightest bit of business sense, which they clearly have, do not believe they're the 'big I am' right now. They are most likely reading this forum, taking notes from the best threads, and, once the expansion is finished, I should imagine will have discussions internally if not about what future content, if any, to provide to this game but their future direction as a company. Rather than complaining that they've become some egotistical, maniacal corporate, lay out your concerns and ideas in a coherent manner. You never know, they might just listen.

I agree, although the mistake of the ambitions outstripping the budget is something they could very well repeat again. At least from what I have heard so far about Cyberpunk 2077, it seems to be even more ambitious than TW3 was in the early plans.
 
I did not buy them yet, but for those who did, the only reason not to play the expansions is that they would make the base game look bad in comparison. :) And it is most likely that none of the major characters will have a significant role (beyond just saying a few lines about the events of the expansion for the purpose of continuity, like in HoS) in Blood and Wine. If they are to have substantial new content at all, that could be in an enhanced edition, but I think it is doubtful, even more so after all the negative reactions to the patch.
.


The patch had a mixed wider response, that's probably exactly what they expected even with their attempt to be even handed. Personally for me it acted as a quick dollop of cement on a structurally unsound aspect of the game & i was happy for it because i had such realistic expectations. The structural problems are still there but at least the structure feels less like it's fallen on my head after act 1.

I'll be disappointed if there's a lodge aspect to Blood and wine and that opportunity to use Triss and Yen in some manner is ignored.
My desire originally for them to have them in the expansions for me wasn't for cute couple time in particular but for them to have more meaty story content especially as Triss really suffers in this regard post Now or Never because she's isolated from much of the main arc quests.

In my opinion, it is not only about romance, but a general lack of screen time later in the game (there are some possibly interesting statistics about characters in each act of the main quest in this post). More involvement in quests indirectly also allows for better developing a relationship, and it is also content that is useful for most players regardless of their choices.
.

Yeah the main issue with Triss romance comes from the large lack of screentime or involvement post Now or Never which went hand in hand with the lack of reflection of the choice.
 
Yeah the main issue with Triss romance comes from the large lack of screentime or involvement post Now or Never which went hand in hand with the lack of reflection of the choice.

This is precisely what I mean by the romance never grows organically.The preference for screen time with Yen creates a natural bias towards that romance. That's not to say there is a concious bias towards that character in the game's development, just that it's a natural consequence of one romanceable character having significant amounts of screentime, whilst the other is reduced to two personal quests and a brief scene prior to rescuing Philippa. The only way to fix Triss' romance is to provide the player with more opportunities to interact with her throughout the story.
 
This is precisely what I mean by the romance never grows organically.The preference for screen time with Yen creates a natural bias towards that romance. That's not to say there is a concious bias towards that character in the game's development, just that it's a natural consequence of one romanceable character having significant amounts of screentime, whilst the other is reduced to two personal quests and a brief scene prior to rescuing Philippa. The only way to fix Triss' romance is to provide the player with more opportunities to interact with her throughout the story.

There are times when you have no choice as far as reacting (like when Yen kisses Geralt - I wanted to stop her, of course and could not) and no option in dialog that doesn't hint or outright state Geralt's fascination with her. Little to no effort was made at reflecting Geralt deciding to get back together with Triss. You still get that never-ending question, "What is the sorceress to you? Yennefer, right?" and Cerys still talks to you like you're in love with Yennefer even after you tell Ms. Bossy Pants there's no magic once the djinn granted Yen's wish. Then, as you point out, Triss's lack of involvement later. To me, all that states Yen over Triss was a very conscious effort on the part of CDPR.

And frankly that sucks big sweaty monkey balls.
 
Last edited:
It is realistic. :(

If they have business sense they will look at what ACTUALLY sells. Not what we say sells. What the "hardcore" wants is not what sells nor what the average consumer actually wants.

I hope they would listen. But I'd rather have low expectation. That way if good thing happen I will be happy and surprised. If bad thing happen, at least I wont be as jaded.

This is such a misconception. TW 3 would have sold as well had CDPR stuck to their guns and not compromised. Buzz from TW 1 led to TW 2 sales and TW 3 sales were fueled by word-of-mouth from TW 2. Word-of-mouth is the single biggest factor that determines any game's success. 3's success I also contribute to RedEngine 3. Any game that looks that impressive is going to sell well.

Unfortunately, CDPR sold out at the exact point they could have proven the misconception wrong and rather than get a genre-redefining game we've gotten a watered down, dumbed down endeavor that is nearly wholly disappointing save for the unprecedented awesomeness that is RedEngine 3.
 
and Cerys still talks to you like you're in love with Yennefer even after you tell Ms. Bossy Pants there's no magic after the djinn grants Yen's wish.

It may make sense though that she does not know about that, but the problem is that it is not possible to correct her. It probably would not even require new lines for anyone other than Geralt, the ability to say that he is with someone else (or alone) and change the subject would be better than nothing. The same applies to Ugly Baby. I do not think this particular issue is because of a conscious effort, but rather, as mentioned before, these quests were written with the assumption that they will be played before any romance choice. Even though it is otherwise the worst made part of the game, in Act 3, Geralt suddenly becomes aware of his own choices, and his conversations with Philippa and Emhyr reflect that.
 
It may make sense though that she does not know about that, but the problem is that it is not possible to correct her. It probably would not even require new lines for anyone other than Geralt, the ability to say that he is with someone else (or alone) and change the subject would be better than nothing. The same applies to Ugly Baby. I do not think this particular issue is because of a conscious effort, but rather, as mentioned before, these quests were written with the assumption that they will be played before any romance choice. Even though it is otherwise the worst made part of the game, in Act 3, Geralt suddenly becomes aware of his own choices, and his conversations with Philippa and Emhyr reflect that.

Yah, my bad. I meant to point that out - you have no way of informing Cerys you broke away from Yennefer and are with Triss. There's a whole conversation thread that is out-of-place because of it. Regardless, intentional or not, having no chance to correct Cerys is immersion-breaking.

How could anyone assume quests would be taken in a particular order in an open world environment? Rather than assume (we all know what happens when a person assumes), why not just present the quests in a particular order so the romance quests don't come up until later? But even then, Cerys's conversation would be out-of-place.

I don't know. Maybe it's just my brain being tired after so much programming, but I can't see that conversation making any sense unless the romance with Yen has taken place, which means CDPR assumed everyone would choose Yen.
 
Last edited:
This is such a misconception. TW 3 would have sold as well had CDPR stuck to their guns and not compromised. Buzz from TW 1 led to TW 2 sales and TW 3 sales were fueled by word-of-mouth from TW 2. Word-of-mouth is the single biggest factor that determines any game's success. 3's success I also contribute to RedEngine 3. Any game that looks that impressive is going to sell well.

Indeed, TW2 already sold decently (currently ~3.8 million owners on Steam, although admittedly a fair percentage of that is because of the game being regularly on sale for $3), and the third game had the advantage of a much higher marketing budget (I recall a figure of $35 million, possibly even more) and being developed for the consoles from the beginning.
 
Yah, my bad. I meant to point that out - you have no way of informing Cerys you broke away from Yennefer and are with Triss. There's a whole conversation thread that is out-of-place because of it. Regardless, intentional or not, the non-reflection is immersion-breaking.

How could anyone assume quests would be taken in a particular order in an open world environment?

As I understand - some quests, like "Now or Never", were planned to appear later in game, than now. CDPR broke the planned first order. So we have this mess here and there.
 
Indeed, TW2 already sold decently (currently ~3.8 million owners on Steam, although admittedly a fair percentage of that is because of the game being regularly on sale for $3), and the third game had the advantage of a much higher marketing budget (I recall a figure of $35 million, possibly even more) and being developed for the consoles from the beginning.

A budget of $35 million? Holy bejesus, doesn't matter how they made TW 3. With the way it looks and that much marketing money behind it, there was no way it would not sell. Not just a bad time to sell out but a tragic time to do so. CDPR could have rewritten the rules for game-making.
 
This is such a misconception. TW 3 would have sold as well had CDPR stuck to their guns and not compromised. Buzz from TW 1 led to TW 2 sales and TW 3 sales were fueled by word-of-mouth from TW 2. Word-of-mouth is the single biggest factor that determines any game's success. 3's success I also contribute to RedEngine 3. Any game that looks that impressive is going to sell well.

Unfortunately, CDPR sold out at the exact point they could have proven the misconception wrong and rather than get a genre-redefining game we've gotten a watered down, dumbed down endeavor that is nearly wholly disappointing save for the unprecedented awesomeness that is RedEngine 3.

Yeah they should have totally and completely ignored the gamers. Would have been better had it been more faithful to the books first and then to have built up actual game only-lore with the previous titles. Much more impressive and genre-defining for a game to do that rather than be watered down for the lower end audience. Actual remediation from a superior art form without damaging either... would have been priceless... such is life :(

But also about sales... nope. Sales of niche or hard to the average gamer games are always lower. See STALKER for example :p
You can not make the average gamer understand complex themes or characters. You can not make them deal with important to the main character personal drama.

I may sound like I am selling them low... but... it is the truth :(
 
Last edited:
There are times when you have no choice as far as reacting (like when Yen kisses Geralt - I wanted to stop her, of course and could not) and no option in dialog that doesn't hint or outright state Geralt's fascination with her. Little to no effort was made at reflecting Geralt deciding to get back together with Triss. You still get that never-ending question, "What is the sorceress to you? Yennefer, right?" and Cerys still talks to you like you're in love with Yennefer even after you tell Ms. Bossy Pants there's no magic once the djinn granted Yen's wish. Then, as you point out, Triss's lack of involvement later. To me, all that states Yen over Triss was a very conscious effort on the part of CDPR.

And frankly that sucks big sweaty monkey balls.

Changing that is only a partial fix. The issue is that coupled with the lack of screen time compared to the other romanceable character in the game. Had Triss had more screen time, and therefore had that romance evolved as organically as Yen's does within the story, the fact Cerys and others still go on about Yen would not have been anything more than a minor irritation. If you simply change Cerys' dialogue to recognise the Triss romance, without increasing her screen time, her romance is still little more than quite literally a quest with the reward of sex rather than a true romance.
 
Last edited:
Changing that is only a partial fix. The issue is that coupled with the lack of screen time compared to the other romanceable character in the game.

Not just compared to the other romanceable character, but in general, compared to other characters and to her own screen time in the first half of the game. If you check the table in this post, she has comparable content to:
- Eskel in all of Act 2 + Act 3 + Reason of State + finale + all epilogues
- "Dwarf Sleepy" in Act 2
- "Werewolf Berem" starting from Battle Preparations
In fact, very few characters are treated decently in the later acts, poor content is more of the rule than the exception. Yennefer and Ciri got prioritized over the Wild Hunt, Triss, politics, basically everything.

Had Triss had more screen time, and therefore had that romance evolved as organically as Yen's does within the story, the fact Cerys and others still go on about Yen would not have been anything more than a minor irritation. If you simply change Cerys' dialogue to recognise the Triss romance, without increasing her screen time, her romance is still little more than quite literally a quest with the reward of sex rather than a true romance.

Yes, it is somewhat understandable that there are many references to Yennefer earlier in the game, CDPR wanted to introduce her and the long relationship with Geralt from the books to new players. But that does not excuse the fact that the game is heavily biased towards Yennefer after the choice, and that much of the time the choice is simply ignored, not only by the world, but also the characters directly involved.
 
Yes, it is somewhat understandable that there are many references to Yennefer earlier in the game, CDPR wanted to introduce her and the long relationship with Geralt from the books to new players. But that does not excuse the fact that the game is heavily biased towards Yennefer after the choice, and that much of the time the choice is simply ignored, not only by the world, but also the characters directly involved.

Yeah it's understandable that Yen with her mother aspect was going to be heavily. Everyone else gets poorly treated and that's pretty poor.

Yeah it's understandable that there are references to Yen, some of them are well done like the song. That desire/bias might explain why Triss choice was initially and pushed late into the game and even once this was corrected it was only half heartedly done, without making even the small dialogue changes to allow reactivity, let alone an UMA inclusion. At least they somewhat fixed the horrible moment where Geralt returns with Ciri and virtually ignores the woman he loves whilst getting snogged by his ex by adding a very nice reflective scene where it is acknowledged.
 
Not just compared to the other romanceable character, but in general, compared to other characters and to her own screen time in the first half of the game. If you check the table in this post, she has comparable content to:
- Eskel in all of Act 2 + Act 3 + Reason of State + finale + all epilogues
- "Dwarf Sleepy" in Act 2
- "Werewolf Berem" starting from Battle Preparations
In fact, very few characters are treated decently in the later acts, poor content is more of the rule than the exception. Yennefer and Ciri got prioritized over the Wild Hunt, Triss, politics, basically everything.



Yes, it is somewhat understandable that there are many references to Yennefer earlier in the game, CDPR wanted to introduce her and the long relationship with Geralt from the books to new players. But that does not excuse the fact that the game is heavily biased towards Yennefer after the choice, and that much of the time the choice is simply ignored, not only by the world, but also the characters directly involved.

By comparison, Yen gets three times the amount of dialogue in the second half of the game as Triss does. I'm not trying to turn this into a pissing contest though, it's just that how can you expect to develop a romance when you have such little material dedicated to it? Most of Triss' dialogue appears in the first act meaning it's too unbalanced towards her personal quests and lacks any time dedicated to developing the story of that romance once you're actually in a romance with her. Forget about minor characters thinking you're sharing your bed with Yen, the only way to fix this romance is to give her more screen time in the second half of the game.
 
Top Bottom