Triss Merigold

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sfinxCZ said:
Because they are clever, educated and they have actual Power. Not like that kings. Sorceresses and sorcerers have experience with doing politics - on the highest level. They can observe behaviour of king and peasants, consequences of decissions etc. Kings are quite stupid, and their arrogancy is based only on their royal blood, no matter if they are complete idiots, they can bacome kings and if they have good position and strong kingdom, they can hold it for some time. On the other side, only the best mages can be between those, who organize developing of whole world, who put royal families together and also affect results of world wars.

Ability to sling fireballs has nothing to do with being a shrewd politician. To claim this is about the same as to claim that extreme fighters will make good senators. Being educated is also not a sure sign because the most important thing is what kind of education they have. A Nuclear physicist who has no experience with the law will not make a good federal judge, does not matter even if he won Nobel prize. Sorceresses are educated in the art of sorcery, and not, as I understand, the areas actually relevant to being a good statesman/politician.

Psychological acuity, ability to read people and understand their motivation comes from experience which only possible if a person finds some sort of value in such observations. People with super-power, or very rich (like in real life) simply do not give a flying fuck about others. The same pretty much goes for sorcerers, especially the members of the Lodge. They are interested only in their vision of the world, how power and control would benefit them personally, and thus they pretty clearly state they struggle for the rule of magic. The strength of the Lodge was in its secrecy. As soon as its existence became known, they were crashed exactly because they do not pay enough attention to some lowly non-magical bastards the rest of the population are. That's why they are easily duped, by Cynthia, by Letho - they are not really interested in understanding people, and always go with what they see on a surface.

They all talk a lot about how politically smart they are, but just face reality. They are always at odds with their rulers, and population in general, which, given that the sorcerers do not produce any material goods, do not grow their own food, and pretty much a part of a super-structure, is simply retarded. They depend on non-magic people in everything, and still pretty much disrespect them and do not take their needs into consideration. Not a good survival strategy. They screw up every political relationship, they are regularly expelled from Northern countries, the Council and the Lodge are crushed, most famous are executed, and we end up with a North-wide witch-hunt (canon according to Sapkowski). How anyone can claim that sorceresses are better politicians than the rest is simply beyond me.

Nilfgaardian sorcerers are a different matter. They are in a society where they have to confirm and become very sensitive to other people's psyche. That's why Cynthia is such a canning girl.
 
I was frustrated with Triss in the books at some point, because she too easily agreed with the Lodge. She was spineless and really pathetic at times, which was really infuriating. Though she redeems herself afterwards, at least for me.

Still, she's a really different kind of sorceress, compared to the others in the Lodge and to Yen and some of the others as well. This is where I think lies her charm. She seems more human then most of the others, which seem to lack any sympathy or kindness.
 
sfinxCZ said:
Because they are clever, educated and they have actual Power. Not like that kings. Sorceresses and sorcerers have experience with doing politics - on the highest level. They can observe behaviour of king and peasants, consequences of decissions etc. Kings are quite stupid, and their arrogancy is based only on their royal blood, no matter if they are complete idiots, they can bacome kings and if they have good position and strong kingdom, they can hold it for some time. On the other side, only the best mages can be between those, who organize developing of whole world, who put royal families together and also affect results of world wars.

I completely agree.In fact, I wished it was possible to support Sile and Philippas' plans in TW2.I don't see them as villains but rather as very smart and capable individuals.Sile actions in flotsam were worthy of respect : Personally fighting the Kayran , donating money to the non humans in flotsam,and confronting Loredo about his corruption.

Dethmold is truly scum ,but not philippa or sile.Just the fact that Philippa is willing to side with free pontar is impressive.Even if its just to serve her greater plans ,it still shows that perhaps she isn't racist as the kings in the game.

I really would help the sorceresses in TW3 if given the choice. Unless the game truly proves that they are corrupt.
 
Wow. Well, I'd just like to say that this was one helluva thread. Real awesome stuff. Much appreciated.

I haven't read any of the books but reading your posts - especially Kodes' - gives me a lot of insight about Triss but also conflicted (once a-fucking-gain, thanks guys!! :p ) about the ending of TW2. Yet again I'm fucking devastated about my choice. Just as I thought I was over it forever!

No but wow. The games do a good job of characterizing her, the info on the codex was alright but I'm noticing more and more that having read the books gives you much needed context for why things are as they are. I mean duh! but you know what I mean.

Well, regardless. Awesome thread, thanks to everyone who took their time to describe a pretty cool character. Also! This might just be the only love-triangle that doesn't give me fucking cancer. The relationship between Yennefer, Triss and Geralt is beyond complex. It involves so many other individuals and shit. Oh man. I want to read the books but ah I don't know.
 
Alyza said:
I completely agree.In fact, I wished it was possible to support Sile and Philippas' plans in TW2.I don't see them as villains but rather as very smart and capable individuals.Sile actions in flotsam were worthy of respect : Personally fighting the Kayran , donating money to the non humans in flotsam,and confronting Loredo about his corruption.

Dethmold is truly scum ,but not philippa or sile.Just the fact that Philippa is willing to side with free pontar is impressive.Even if its just to serve her greater plans ,it still shows that perhaps she isn't racist as the kings in the game.

I really would help the sorceresses in TW3 if given the choice. Unless the game truly proves that they are corrupt.

First of all, cheers! I already started celebrating a New Year of the Witcher.

Sure they are not racists, they are simply ready to get humans as well as dwarves and elves killed in equal measure if it suits them. I am sorry to rain on your parade, but Philippa and Sile were the ones who made this rebellion possible (that's why they commissioned assassination of Demovend), even though if not for dumb luck, it was doomed, and all those peasants, dwarves and elves were herded into slaughter. A small detail, one of many that makes TW2 a complete awesomeness plot-wise. Recall dialogue with Ves on Roche's path: "A popular uprising will never win over professional army. I know this, you know this, Henselt knows this. I wonder why Saskia does not".
This is true even on Iorveth path because Henselt was defeated not by Saskia's forces. Conspiracy succeeded, his nobles refused to go into battle, and he went to Vergen with a small number of troops. Essentially, he was defeated by Foltest, who devised this plan, and Roche, who executed it. None of it was Saskia's doing, she simply got lucky. She charismatically gained a lot of followers who were following her blindly into a hopeless siege and massacre. On Roche's path it was exactly what happened - Henselt went in with a full army, and we got a nice scene in epilogue of all our dwarven friends being hanged. On Iorveth path her rebellion was saved by dumb luck, but she did not even have enough common sense to realize that judging by her behavior on a summit.

I would have forgiven her if she had gambled with her life as well, or if she and sorceresses tried to save as many people as possible by teleporting them, or something. But she did not. She, Philipa and Sile had a way out - they teleported/flew away, while their followers have been slaughtered. So, to answer Ves, I would say - she simply does not give a damn. Whatever happens, she will always have her way out. Iorveth path presents her like a frigging hero, while in reality she gambled with people's lives with stakes being absolutely not in her favor. How a hell such arrogance and stupidity make anyone a hero, even if they have nice boobs and shapely ass, is beyond my comprehension.

I truly admire sorceresses, but not for their "goodness", or "wisdom". Philippa (and Sile as well) does not care about others so much that she is more like a goddess incarnate, who does anything a hell she wants, does not matter how many she will be hurt in the process. She uses people, even Saskia, as her tools, and discards them when expedient. She is very active and inventive in pursing of her goals, and is ready to unleash hell on earth to reach them. She is tough, and no eye-gouging can break her. None of them is malicious, and does harm just for a hell of it, and they can be gracious and kind when it suits them. But both of them on a power trip, to become a real power, and to be real rulers of real states, and they are dangerous for everyone. No wonder Radovid was ready to ally himself with anybody who could help just to get rid of Philippa and Sile. Saskia's uprising is actually something that illustrates how little they thought their supporters, and what their approach to solving problems was - run and let their followers get killed, and unleash a dragon to kill everyone in LM as a cover-up.
 
vivaxardas said:
First of all, cheers! />/> I already started celebrating a New Year of the Witcher.

Hey! Happy new year :)/>



But about vergen's victory if you side with her, I don't see it as purely dumb luck.If I recall correctly, they just pulled off a damn good fight under saskia and it was all thanks to philippa behind the scenes.Saskia united people under one roof fighting honestly for a common cause.They seem to be in somewhat high spirits compared to henselt's divided camp should you side with roche.


EDIT: So as not to derail the thread about Triss Merigold, I decided to make a thread about Philippa and the lodge.We can continue talking about it there :)
 
vivaxardas said:
Ability to sling fireballs has nothing to do with being a shrewd politician.
Which sorceress do that (speaking about this case)?

If Henselt could do that, it's quite clear, how peace talks in Cintra could ended. Who had to be there to calm him down? - Sorceress.
Also your beloved Emhyr knows only one political style - and it's really close to fireballs. His plans started two world wars (both lost on battleground), so who is worse?

To claim this is about the same as to claim that extreme fighters will make good senators.
Speaking about emperor and other aggressors, they are not good politicians, you are ring at this point :)
I know, you meant mages, but how many wars did they actually prepared? Their methods about big army and gaining new territory.
Their international interests also prooved, they are higher than some king, which cannot even deal with problems in their own kingdoms, but they already want to conquer another.

Being educated is also not a sure sign because the most important thing is what kind of education they have.
...
Sorceresses are educated in the art of sorcery, and not, as I understand, the areas actually relevant to being a good statesman/politician.
Also military leaders or former beasts are not automatically good rulers.
I think sorceresses are highly prepared also for politics. They have to be - their highest organisations supervised on everything and their possible experience can be several times longer than experience of any king or queen.

People with super-power, or very rich (like in real life) simply do not give a flying fuck about others. The same pretty much goes for sorcerers, especially the members of the Lodge.
But not for the Emhyr? Not for the any king or queen? I think mages are much closer to chance to undestand them. Not just because of their origins, but also because they usually spend a lot of time on many places, not just in court.

They are interested only in their vision of the world, how power and control would benefit them personally, and thus they pretty clearly state they struggle for the rule of magic.
And where you get this?
They are rich, they are powerfull, they already controlled many and many things (like who will sit on the throne, who will marry the kings, who will be his lover,...), so they already have it.

I really don't understand, why you search for this only in the case of sorceresses. Emhyr already strted two biggest wars and killed maybe milions of people for his own goals, but that is ok? On the other side - effor of sorceresses to put the world in balance and plans on defence of the North are something bad?

If you speak about thirsting for power, you should look on real a***oles - kings and emperor. This is their goal. They already prooved it, some of them not only once. So if you search for mass murderers, who go straight to their goals, over dead bodies, you should look there ;)

We can doubt about reasons of sorceresses, but not about acts and goals of some kings and emperor.
 
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