Triss vs Yennefer [NOW WITH SPOILERS. Oh, well.]

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Triss vs Yennefer [NOW WITH SPOILERS. Oh, well.]

  • I like triss better

    Votes: 269 49.5%
  • i like yen better

    Votes: 200 36.8%
  • I like tris better, and from a RP point, I would have to go for yen

    Votes: 49 9.0%
  • from a RP point, I'd go with triss aswell.

    Votes: 25 4.6%

  • Total voters
    543
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@Scholdarr.452 I completely agree. That's pretty much the way Geralt felt about it as well and if you count in his lack of experience and inability to express himself... But at that point Yen was ready to take it to the next level and was open for discussion, I could recognize that more than easily while reading A Shard of Ice. There was no bullet to dodge so no need to act like a coward for Geralt. I still agree that the flaws of her personality overall might've even encouraged him with his decision. Problem is he was just scared of this new and unknown feeling, probably even more than Yennefer herself. People tend to run away when scared. They just both blamed themselves instead of blaming each other if that makes sense. Geralt wasn't ready for an open discussion, as he didn't grow up to that point yet. Just like Sapkowski said, purpose of Yen's creation was to let Geralt fully grow and understand his emotions.

I don't think Yen was open for a (real) discussion neither tbh. I don't know what leads you to think that but imo his inabilitiy to say the three magic words to her at that point wasn't the whole crux of their relationship. Like I said before, I have the feeling that you limit their issue purely to the emotional level. But it's more to it than that. In Shard of Ice Yen actually renewed her inablitiy to understand Geralt on a more social level. She want him to change without showing any will to change herself. She still wants him to settle down in a city although she knows that he hates it. She doesn't care. If Geralt wants to live with her he has to adapt, to bear, to swallow. I don't call that being open for discussion, at least not completely. At that point in the story Yen is far away from making compromises or even sacrifice anything. That moment of katharis is reached only months or years later in the pentalogy when Yen finally acknowledges that she has to make sacrifices for the ones she love (but then again it's more about Ciri than it is about Geralt...). You remember that little scene in The Lady of the Lake when they both talk about for the last time before Ciri and Yen travel to the lodge just before the pogrom in Rivia? That's a moment of clarity for them if you ask me, a moment in which their unhealthy dominant-submissive scheme seems to crack up with Geralt ackknowledging that he has to take a more active part in the relationship no matter the consequence and Yen acknowledging that she can't always treat Gerealt like that, just deciding what to do and keeping silent about her motivations. It's a short moment of mutual recognition, just before the end.

And yes, Yen's purpose is to let Geralt grow. But since Sapkowski is a good writer he did that in mutual way. Same is true for Yennefer. She grows as well in their relationship. ;)
 
Since Brian666 put it like that, i will post @Redemyr explain about Triss and Geralt...again, always love that explanation (look like i mention him with this too many time already :p)

I've been trying to search with a reason why this story moved me as much as it did.

And it got me thinking. Throughout our life, there are several people who, if the circumstances align themselves, we would get along, get together and in time, develop feelings like affection, love, among others. And the are some circumstances that would prevent that from happening.

Chief among the later is that, when somebody new enters your life and there’s already a preexisting bond with someone else, that new person will have a very hard time entering your life so to speak.

As an example, I’ll bring up my own, albeit limited, experience in the matter. I met my current girlfriend in college, about eleven years ago. Yet at the time, I was with somebody else and so was she. I certainly liked her, and in hindsight, I learned that she did too, but there was never any intentions of us becoming a thing, because, as I said, we were both locked up in that department. It took a special set if circumstances that I won’t elaborate here for us to actually say, let’s give it a try. And ten years later, we’re still together. Yet there were so many things that could have prevented that.

Back on topic, considering that Geralt and Yen have been together for 10-15 (correct this part please) years by the time Triss enters the picture, their special on and off toxic relationship, the strong feelings they have for each other and a freaking djin made magical bond with uncertain properties on top of everything, Triss never stands a chance.

No matter how much better she might be for Geralt or not, there is simply no way, there is no room for her to enter his life in a significant way. That place is already taken. She is relegated to watch their relationship from afar. First with jealously born out of a childish whim. Later with true affection. It has no relevance though, as the man she loves will never give their relationship a chance, because his heart is taken, magically and otherwise. I’m no expert in the books so I’m not sure for how long this goes on.

Which brings us to the end of the books and the beginning of the games. Those rare and special set of circumstances I talked about earlier, which make it possible for two people to find out if something between is truly possible, are suddenly there.

And here we have this woman, who was forced to watch from the sidelines, to taste but never to keep, to envy, to crave. Finally that alignment of circumstances happens, and she has a chance. The very first real one and probably the only one she will ever get.

That chance implies a choice, she can either remain ever in the sidelines or risk everything to find out if their love deserves a chance to be born. In a way, her own, “Now or Never” moment.

So she chooses. And who can blame her? Who, honestly, could say they would have done otherwise?

As it turns out, she was completely right. Unhindered by external circumstances, their relationship grows strong. They go from strangers (at least in his mind), to casual lovers, to let’s run away from everything together and rose of remembrance level love in the span of a few months.

Yet the conditions that allowed such bloom, the blank state that made it all possible, doesn’t last much. The old barrier is back. One party confused and the other already in her own mind defeated, they decide to part ways. The first, because he needs to make sense of his own feelings, the later, because she already knows what’s coming, she’s seen it many times in the past and needs to make herself stronger in order to bear it.

They set off, one in search of answers and the other looking for a new purpose. Six months later, fate reunites them once again. He is still confused; she is almost ready to move on. Their brief interactions are enough to rekindle the old flames and yet, none of them admits it openly. One because her heart won’t bear the disappointment of losing him again, the other because he is not willing to go deep enough into his own self find to find an answer.

On the docks, when the moment of truth approaches, when they realize they might never see each other again, pretense has no place anymore. He finally admits his feeling and she in turn, doesn't move on, doesn’t leave. The two of them are finally free to love each other.

He has the answer he’s been searching for, and she is no longer afraid. They know their choice won't make everyone happy and that there will be a fallout from this, people disappointed. And yet, they've walked a very long and hard road to finally find what they truly wanted. They are not willing to ever let it go again.

This is the one true love story of the witcher series, one born out of true feelings, one born out of desperation and bravery, of hard choices, the one we saw with our own eyes develop and that you, the devs, created for us. It is your own baby. Please give it the place that it deserves.

this post really says it perfectly
agree with everything but this quote in particular

This is the one true love story of the witcher series, one born out of true feelings, one born out of desperation and bravery, of hard choices, the one we saw with our own eyes develop and that you, the devs, created for us. It is your own baby. Please give it the place that it deserves.

---------- Updated at 07:03 AM ----------

I don't think Yen was open for a (real) discussion neither tbh. I don't know what leads you to think that but imo his inabilitiy to say the three magic words to her at that point wasn't the whole crux of their relationship. Like I said before, I have the feeling that you limit their issue purely to the emotional level. But it's more to it than that. In Shard of Ice Yen actually renewed her inablitiy to understand Geralt on a more social level. She want him to change without showing any will to change herself. She still wants him to settle down in a city although she knows that he hates it. She doesn't care. If Geralt wants to live with her he has to adapt, to bear, to swallow. I don't call that being open for discussion, at least not completely. At that point in the story Yen is far away from making compromises or even sacrifice anything. That moment of katharis is reached only months or years later in the pentalogy when Yen finally acknowledges that she has to make sacrifices for the ones she love (but then again it's more about Ciri than it is about Geralt...). You remember that little scene in The Lady of the Lake when they both talk about for the last time before Ciri and Yen travel to the lodge just before the pogrom in Rivia? That's a moment of clarity for them if you ask me, a moment in which their unhealthy dominant-submissive scheme seems to crack up with Geralt ackknowledging that he has to take a more active part in the relationship no matter the consequence and Yen acknowledging that she can't always treat Gerealt like that, just deciding what to do and keeping silent about her motivations. It's a short moment of mutual recognition, just before the end.

And yes, Yen's purpose is to let Geralt grow. But since Sapkowski is a good writer he did that in mutual way. Same is true for Yennefer. She grows as well in their relationship. ;)

@Scholdarr.452
u'v hit them all on d head

She want him to change without showing any will to change herself.
ths wr some of d points i ws tryin to mk abt Yen; apart frm her many arrogant, bitchy n violent tendencies, this is one f d most major problems
she is amazingly closed, conceited and hypocritical
neither was it (trusting/compassion etc) a 2 way thing between her n Geralt nor her reaction to Triss n Geralt's love mature n sensitive n non-jealous wn of all ppl she hd somethin on an even bigger scale n longer time with him n Istredd

again
That moment of catharsis is reached only months or years later in the pentalogy when Yen finally acknowledges that she has to make sacrifices for the ones she love (but then again it's more about Ciri than it is about Geralt...)
this ws another point i hd tried to make
she doesn't care abt anything (someone hd called it true-neutral) till she thinks that thing/person is part of her "me"; see how she was with Ciri earlier n think abt Triss or any normal person's reaction to a child, especially d ward of a loved one
very very shallow n selfish person

n all of that really blows up when u compare what a sweetheart Triss is
 
She want him to change without showing any will to change herself. She still wants him to settle down in a city although she knows that he hates it. She doesn't care. If Geralt wants to live with her he has to adapt, to bear, to swallow.

I will have to disagree with this. In A Shard of Ice, her action was more like trying to convince Geralt that he could still earn a living as a witcher while settling down in a town/city.
"Well, well. Even in a town it's easy for a witcher to find work, you don't have to roam through the wilds at all.
....
"Look for yourself; pseudorats in sewers and cellars, zeugls in rubbish dumps, neocorises in polluted moats and sewers, taggirs in millponds. It's virtually symbiosis, don't you think?
"Witchers can be kept busy in towns too. I think one day you will settle in a city for good, Geralt"


At that point in the story Yen is far away from making compromises or even sacrifice anything.

A simple question: If someone you love asks you to give up your dream (a dream you still believe you could achieve) just to be together, are you willing to do so?

The compromises or sacrifice anything you mentioned here is her dream. Her dream is to be a mother, to have a family, a family she never had, something she always wanted in her entire life. Remember she was almost a century old, so she has been chasing that dream for almost a century. She was ready to break up with Istredd for Geralt because she loves him, but Istredd's proposal gave her a reason to hesitate, because Istredd was willing to give Yennefer what she wanted, his support, a family, even a baby (we were told sorceresses are mostly infertile, not sorcerers). At that point, Geralt was still just a guy who loves Yen but had nothing to give her other than his love, which is not enough. In the end, she realised that she couldn't return Istredd's offer with her love, and Geralt couldn't give her what she wanted, so she decided to leave them both. Geralt later learned that the little sacrifice (from his pov) he expected Yennefer to make is an impossible sacrifice for her to make. It was then he finally understand how selfish he was for expecting Yennefer to make that "little sacrifice".

Without the background of why Yen always wanted Geralt to settle down with her, many might think that she was just a selfish control freak that wanted to force Geralt to do as her will, which she clearly wasn't and didn't.



That moment of katharis is reached only months or years later in the pentalogy when Yen finally acknowledges that she has to make sacrifices for the ones she love (but then again it's more about Ciri than it is about Geralt...).

Would you mind telling me which part of the book gives you this idea(bold fonts)? Thank you in advanced.
 
I will have to disagree with this. In A Shard of Ice, her action was more like trying to convince Geralt that he could still earn a living as a witcher while settling down in a town/city.
"Well, well. Even in a town it's easy for a witcher to find work, you don't have to roam through the wilds at all.
....
"Look for yourself; pseudorats in sewers and cellars, zeugls in rubbish dumps, neocorises in polluted moats and sewers, taggirs in millponds. It's virtually symbiosis, don't you think?
"Witchers can be kept busy in towns too. I think one day you will settle in a city for good, Geralt"


A simple question: If someone you love asks you to give up your dream (a dream you still believe you could achieve) just to be together, are you willing to do so?

The compromises or sacrifice anything you mentioned here is her dream. Her dream is to be a mother, to have a family, a family she never had, something she always wanted in her entire life. Remember she was almost a century old, so she has been chasing that dream for almost a century. She was ready to break up with Istredd for Geralt because she loves him, but Istredd's proposal gave her a reason to hesitate, because Istredd was willing to give Yennefer what she wanted, his support, a family, even a baby (we were told sorceresses are mostly infertile, not sorcerers). At that point, Geralt was still just a guy who loves Yen but had nothing to give her other than his love, which is not enough. In the end, she realised that she couldn't return Istredd's offer with her love, and Geralt couldn't give her what she wanted, so she decided to leave them both. Geralt later learned that the little sacrifice (from his pov) he expected Yennefer to make is an impossible sacrifice for her to make. It was then he finally understand how selfish he was for expecting Yennefer to make that "little sacrifice".

Without the background of why Yen always wanted Geralt to settle down with her, many might think that she was just a selfish control freak that wanted to force Geralt to do as her will, which she clearly wasn't and didn't.

I think for many it's understandable, but not acceptable. But nvm good point of view.
 
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I will have to disagree with this. In A Shard of Ice, her action was more like trying to convince Geralt that he could still earn a living as a witcher while settling down in a town/city.
"Well, well. Even in a town it's easy for a witcher to find work, you don't have to roam through the wilds at all.
And what would she do if he just said no? I can't see Yen being ok with that answer. She isn't the type for that. She does whatever she wants to do and either Geralt accepts and assimilates or he can go on without her. That's the simple deal.

A simple question: If someone you love asks you to give up your dream (a dream you still believe you could achieve) just to be together, are you willing to do so?
Depends on the situation and the wider context. And this is what this is all about.

The compromises or sacrifice anything you mentioned here is her dream. Her dream is to be a mother, to have a family, a family she never had, something she always wanted in her entire life. Remember she was almost a century old, so she has been chasing that dream for almost a century. She was ready to break up with Istredd for Geralt because she loves him, but Istredd's proposal gave her a reason to hesitate, because Istredd was willing to give Yennefer what she wanted, his support, a family, even a baby (we were told sorceresses are mostly infertile, not sorcerers). At that point, Geralt was still just a guy who loves Yen but had nothing to give her other than his love, which is not enough. In the end, she realised that she couldn't return Istredd's offer with her love, and Geralt couldn't give her what she wanted, so she decided to leave them both. Geralt later learned that the little sacrifice (from his pov) he expected Yennefer to make is an impossible sacrifice for her to make. It was then he finally understand how selfish he was for expecting Yennefer to make that "little sacrifice".
I don't think that you get the point of what I meant with sacrifice. The reason why Geralt left Yen in the first place had little to do with him feeling that her love was not enough. Like @Wasaabii28 you totally miss the social context of the whole situation. It's not just about their pair-relationship but also the world they live in. Geralt's and Yen's "life designs" constantly clashed, being basically contradictory. And they both missed the actual point of why the other person wanted to live a different life. Yen's attempt to convince Geralt to stay in the city is the best proof for that. By trying to convince him like that you can clearly see that she doesn't care about his motviations that much. In her mind, he should just stop behaving like a baby and assimilate to her way of life. I don't know about you, but that's not how I envision a healthy relationship.

And what "little sacrifice" do you mean, by the way (just in order to avoid misunderstandings)?

Without the background of why Yen always wanted Geralt to settle down with her, many might think that she was just a selfish control freak that wanted to force Geralt to do as her will, which she clearly wasn't and didn't.
Having a dream and suffering from personal trauma isn't an excuse for being a selfish control freak (which she is). It explains why she is how she is. But that's about it. People are still responsible for their actions. Her trauma and her obsession with motherhood made her blind for the needs of Geralt. As Geralt's constant self-doubts and obsession with being a senseless mutant made him blind for Yen's needs. That's why their relationship was doomed to fail, no matter how much they loved each other. Without realizing what the other person wants and needs and without being able to give up at least a portion of your own wishes and dreams a relationship can't work for a longer period of time. It's amazing how you claim that Geralt should be able to make sacrifices while it's obviously perfectly ok for Yen to just stay what she is without changing herself even a bit in favor for this relationship. If you want to stay in a healthy relationship with somebody else you have to get over your trauma at least to a certain point. You cannot use it as an opt-out clause like both did in the past. That's why their relationship didn't work.

Would you mind telling me which part of the book gives you this idea(bold fonts)? Thank you in advanced.
Yen's whole plotline from being on Skellige towards the end of the saga. You're welcome. :)
 
This is why i liked triss told her i like being a witcher etc and shes fine with it. Yennifer doesnt allow that. In the end i personally prefer Triss's personality more and i avoid people with Yennefer's personality in both real life and fiction.
 
In the Sorceressess universe, Yen sacrifice her high reputation for Geralt quietly. And she no needs to do that loud and clear, but only for/by herself.

But, in fact, in a true relation you never expect from the other a prove of love by a sacrifice. Justs because sacrifices are done without being asked for. Don't really couples talk each other and search a good and fair path for both and thier family when this couple decide/realize they are a family?
 
Talking about the game, both endings with triss geralt can be a witcher, he can be himself (If you want) and Triss is fine with it. Yen is bloody isolation in a hut. If thats what you want good for you, but i didnt play geralt that way.

Finally to all the book elitists this is a game forum and in the end a lot of us are discussion a character by what is shown in the game. So just do not give me book evidence as that does not matter in our situation much since we talking about a rpg not books. Cause books in simpler terms can be considered a set point of view, games allow different people to have different point of views with their own choices.

So some like Triss some like Yen and that is completely subjective
 
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Talking about the game, both endings with triss geralt can be a witcher, he can be himself (If you want) and Triss is fine with it. Yen is bloody isolation in a hut. If thats what you want good for you, but i didnt play geralt that way.

In the books Geralt hated being a witcher and was prepared to retire to live happily with Yen.And Yen was ready to sacrifice her lifestyle to be with him(whuch she also does in the game).
 
Talking about the game, both endings with triss geralt can be a witcher, he can be himself (If you want) and Triss is fine with it. Yen is bloody isolation in a hut. If thats what you want good for you, but i didnt play geralt that way.

You missed the crucial part - this is what Geralt always wanted. ;) They come to an agreement in the game as well.
 
Finally to all the book elitists this is a game forum and in the end a lot of us are discussing a character by what is shown in the game. So just do not give me book evidence as that does not matter in our situation much since we talking about a rpg not books. Cause books in simpler terms can be considered a set point of view, games allow different people to have different point of views with their own choices.

If you want o base choices based on books then do that in the books forums, in the end there are quite majo differences between the two. The whole point of amnesia is a chance to start fresh. You want the past and feel thats is only way good for you but i find it to be a narrowminded point of view. I will judge a game character by what was shown in the game.

So some like Triss some like Yen and that is completely subjective
 
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@zeypheruk try playing the game and romance Yennefer then? Looks like you missed that part since you said that
Yen won't allow him to be a witcher and isolates him in a hut. Should I give you my Final Battle Preparations save?
 
I did both romances. Seriously what is with the Yen brigade its like they cannot believe someone can have a different interpretation and different choices.

Some just like Triss better as its a choice. What the point of playing a game with choices if according to the book readers i should stick with the books.

Fact of the matter is i feel we should discuss them with games in mind as its a game forum where we are discussing it in.
 
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In the Sorceressess universe, Yen sacrifice her high reputation for Geralt quietly. And she no needs to do that loud and clear, but only for/by herself.
Did she? If I remember correctly most other sorceresses severly envied her for having Geralt around (at least after Thanedd)...

And we have no proof at all that Yen would get along nice with a "witcher Geralt". There are strong indicators that it was not the case before the pentalogy. And everything in the pentalogy is "special case", out of the ordinary stuff. Would their relationship be stable when the storm is gone and the everyday life comes back? Who knows? The books (fortunately) avoided that question and in the games it's just a 10 seconds happy ending slices that implies that all their issues were just magically gone. It's up to the individual to decide whether that's realistic for them or not I'd say... ;)
 
Finally to all the book elitists this is a game forum and in the end a lot of us are discussing a character by what is shown in the game. So just do not give me book evidence as that does not matter in our situation much since we talking about a rpg not books. Cause books in simpler terms can be considered a set point of view, games allow different people to have different point of views with their own choices.

If you want o base choices based on books then do that in the books forums, in the end there are quite majo differences between the two. The whole point of amnesia is a chance to start fresh. You want the past and feel thats is only way good for you but i find it to be a narrowminded point of view. I will judge a game character by what was shown in the game.

So some like Triss some like Yen and that is completely subjective

I'm an elitist,becuse I've read the books?OK.The problem is that you're wrong about Yen.She never forced him to retire.He did it himself.And Yen sacrificed her lifestyle to be with him.Living in isolation in a hut?That's not what Yen likes.She likes to live in luxury,in a big city.But for Gerlat she's ready to live in a hut.
 
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