Triss vs Yennefer [NOW WITH SPOILERS. Oh, well.]

[kJustK]

Alright, since you wanted us to be constructive and discuss... I shall answer to everything with one or three or six or fifty sentences, as simply as possible.

Read the books please.



Can you please elaborate a bit? I'm curious in what way did you actually mean this. If it's the general "Yennefer is toxic" way then why am I even bothering with a response... sigh.

Read the books please.

They caused a lot of pain to each other because they were both scared of being loved and accepted by somebody else
as they were both damaged individuals with a very dark past, can you imagine how hard it must be to open your heart to someone if you were Yennefer or Geralt? Probably not. From what I've understood in the books, Yennefer was the one who had to suffer the most of pain, main cause of it being Geralt with his pathetic stubbornness and emotional instability.

Read the books please.



Nor is Geralt. Nor is Triss. What is the definition of a good person, especially in The Witcher series? I don't see how is this even relevant. Yennefer remains loyal to Geralt despite of all the shit he put her through and keeps on loving him.

Does that excuse her wrongdoing? No. Does that excuse her countless personality flaws? No.

Does that make her a good person at heart? Yes.

Read the books please.




Read the books. Read the books. Read the books. Read the books. Read the books. Just go ahead and read.

:boredom:

Read The Last Wish. You can clearly see that it was love from the first sight from Geralt's part. Genie's "spell" didn't play any role in it and was just an addition towards the end to make it more complicated and romantic.

If you really have so much trouble with comprehensive reading I can quote the most important parts for you.



Wrong. Geralt broke up with Yennefer. Many times. All the time. She loved him and kept accepting his countless apologies regardless of all the harm caused to her.

Read The Last Wish. Read The Bounds of Reason. Read A Shard of Ice. Read Something More. Read please sir!

Read before you judge a character based on what you've heard or seen in a video game. You didn't read the books properly and you know it.

Ciri came in as a package deal. Right. Oh god. Yeah, she wanted a child, obviously. While other sorceresses were busy with world manipulation and feeding their hunger for power, our terrible person Yennefer was just trying to "cure" her infertility. Read "Something More" and the last chapter of "Blood of Elves". How wrong it is from an infertile woman
to want an adoptive daughter, right? That's just completely sick.

I like how every single one of your kind brings up this point "she only came back to Geralt because of Ciri". Yes exactly. Ciri was the only reason. She wanted to help her, guide her, protect her. Love her as her own.

In "Something More" - read it please - she makes herself quite clear that she is tired of being constantly hurt and dumped for all these years. She loves him very much but he keeps treating her like shit so she finally decides to give up after a decade of pain. They needed something more to make their relationship work, because Geralt wasn't emotionally stable and able to naturally love someone to a point where he would be capable of maintaining a stable relationship.
He had a strong affection, perhaps even something resembling love a little at heart, but he wasn't able to say it and live with it. He was an emotional mess pretty much, but that's expected since he was a mutated witcher with suppressed and underdeveloped feelings. Emotional state of a 15 year old. Yennefer and her painful childhood which resulted in her doubting and blaming herself didn't help either. Ciri was something they both needed, a daughter they would both care for and love her more than anything, more than each other. Yennefer indeed came back to Geralt only because of Ciri.
You know why? Geralt didn't even bother to contact her until it was necessary and he couldn't avoid it anymore. He knew he fucked up big time and didn't want to hurt her anymore, because at that point (during Blood of the Elves and Ciri's training) he was becoming more emotionally developed and started to understand what he really felt towards Yennefer, however he acknowledged it was probably too late. Well thankfully Yennefer was stupid enough still in love with him too.

Read the books. It doesn't hurt. They're awesome. They make you smile, they make you cry, they make you regret you started reading, they make you wanna read more. Read.



"Sex is a very casual thing for witches, witchers and Yen does it all the time with almost anyone that catches her fancy."

Yes indeed. Yennefer is a perverted freak. And you know what? This makes a relationship more healthy. Trust me.

It's easy to get bored, but that isn't going to happen to you with Yennefer.

Geralt wasn't particularly impressed with the collection. He had lived at Yennefer's house in Vengerberg for six months and she possessed an even more interesting collection, including a phallus of unprecedented proportions, apparently from a mountain troll. She also had a magnificent stuffed unicorn, upon whose back she liked to make love. Geralt was of the opinion that the only place even less suited for lovemaking would be the back of a live unicorn. In contrast to the witcher, who considered a bed a luxury and valued all possible applications such a wonderful piece of furniture offered, Yennefer was wildly inventive. Geralt recalled pleasant moments spent with the sorceress on the slope of a roof, in the hollow of a dead tree, on the balcony, and those of others, the railing of a bridge, a canoe, rocking unsteadily on a rushing stream and lastly while levitating thirty fathoms above the ground. But worst of all was the unicorn. One happy day, however, the thing collapsed beneath them. It ripped open and broke into pieces, causing the pair to burst into wild laughter.

Yennefer has sex all the time with almost anyone that catches her fancy? While this isn't that far from the truth, I would still take it down a notch. You make her sound like some nymphomaniac that jumps on horses around every corner.
Did she have many sexual partners? Obviously. So did Geralt. It's natural. Is that supposed to be a bad thing?
Because it isn't. It depends on your point of view. I wouldn't call Geralt nor Yennefer promiscuous.
They're both 100 years old. Of course there will be quite a list after such a time.

"Yen also indulges in a serious relation with the sorcerer Istredd while keeping Geralt on stand-by."

Oh you know what I didn't write in a long time? READ THE BOOKS. Yennefer was already in a relationship with Istredd when she met Geralt and fell in love with him. Istredd was the one "being kept on stand-by", not Geralt. She was ready to give up everything for Geralt - even Istredd who on the other hand was ready to give up everything for Yennefer and she knew that - and love him blindly, crazily and unconditionally, just like love is supposed to be, but back then Geralt was still a little emotionally underdeveloped and unstable mutant. He wasn't able to tell Yennefer he loves her and wants to be with her forever. He was way too damaged. He wasn't able to understand, experience and express his feelings properly, which was destroying Yennefer from the inside. He wasn't able to say the three magic words.
She gave him a chance and he didn't take it. Who's fault was that? Enough spoilers. Please just go ahead and read
A Shard of Ice. I beg you. It's worth it. It explains their "toxic" relationship much better. Please read it.

Like I said: Last Wish -- The Bounds of Reason -- A Shard of Ice -- Something More. JUST DO IT.

YESTERDAY YOU SAID TOMORROW. JUST READ IT!

"And after all this, the bitch has the nerve to ask Geralt again and again if he had other women, and to get upset forever over Geralt and Triss' one-off stand even though Triss loves him and he likes her."

Again, no comment. You clearly didn't read at all or saw the words as you wanted to see them. Yennefer never "cheated" on Geralt, it almost happened in "Something More" after some months of despair, but that only had a sexual meaning. She got thirsty, it's understandable. No feelings involved, unlike in Geralt's affairs with Triss, Fringilla etc; that was more than just sex. I wouldn't say she was that bitchy and upset about it, I would probably get more pissed off if I was in her shoes. But yeah remember in both cases spells were involved, so it was quite easy for her to forgive him, especially since she didn't know Geralt's emotions and affection for both women were included as well, it wasn't all just because
of spells. She gave Triss shit for taking an advantage of him, that's to be expected after your friend backstabs you.

will reply in detail later; fr d moment will only say this
it doesn't mk u any wiser or more comprehending by js shouting read d books wn i'v already mentioned many times over that i have read all of them multiple times n i do love d witcher saga, both games n books

as far as books go i hv no problem accepting Geralt n Yen together
thts how d author portrayed it and i am sensitive, empathetic, sensible, romantic, fractured, evil and mature, aware n strong enough to check my weaknesses to understand the story, d characters and the author's intent

as mentioned in my original post, we r talkin aft TW2 hweve, n with d many doubts, plots n leeway provide within d books themselves as well as in TW2 to understand tht Geralt may have a think about his life and relations calmly
also, i hv mentioned in multiple posts tht if possible i wd like to b with Yennefer but definitely not at d cost of giving up Triss if Yen is small enough not to understand tht

 

[Brian6666]

Isn't the game plot about Geralt and his doubts and issues and troubles and decisions? So explaining how a psicologic shock like recover his memories and facing the naked true is less important that Geralt had lost them? All the CDPR TW saga is based in the lost of this memories and now, it the final episode, an explaination about how he faces their recovering?... Changing one second character is more inmersive than the own main character's reasons for this choice?

I think that it is up to each player to decide how and what Geralt feels about regaining his memory, the game should present us with potential consequences of either interpretation and let us choose how we feel. If the game said explicitly how Geralt feels, it would devoid each player of that choice and IMO reduced emotional investment in the game. This way the game forces us to think about how he would feel and based on our own criteria make that decision.

I never said that changing one character would bring more immersion, even though for me personally it would help, just that main character's reasons are up to the player to decide. I said in my previous post that I think it is important for a game to show a moral dilemma( in this case, the memory loss and regain) and let each of us make our own choice, not to decide that for us.

 

[wichat]

Let's refresh gamer's memories:

Last moment when Geralt sees Yennefer: Geralt exchanges his soul for saving Yen from the Wild Hunt hands. Next time he has last news form her: a letter with a readers gamers wink about the Unicorn and its implications. Really next time when Geralt meets Yen (the woman for who his sacrifice his soul) they don't exchange any word about feelings.... Where and when Geralt and Yen breake up? Is any hint, word, act quest in any of the 3 games in which Geralt sotp loving Yen?

Where is the coherence in all the CDPR story line to offer Triss as a reasonable new true love? The love Geralt felt in TW1 for a sorcereress who wasn't Triss but Triss never deny? As a gamer of CDPR deep and matureness complex previous games of them, I cannot place nor Triss nor Yennefer fairly in Geralt heart without more explanations. Maybe in other games of others companies where storylines quality has any importance.

Of course, everyone can be content hiself/herself with such a lack of why my main character doesn't show any reaction in face a whole recovering of his memories. Let's make from TW3 another easy-freechoice-games, and let's forget the quality we've have in TW and TW2. .... It's only one more game.

---------- Updated at 05:21 PM ----------

I think that it is up to each player to decide how and what Geralt feels about regaining his memory, the game should present us with potential consequences of either interpretation and let us choose how we feel. If the game said explicitly how Geralt feels, it would devoid each player of that choice and IMO reduced emotional investment in the game. This way the game forces us to think about how he would feel and based on our own criteria make that decision.

I never said that changing one character would bring more immersion, even though for me personally it would help, just that main character's reasons are up to the player to decide. I said in my previous post that I think it is important for a game to show a moral dilemma and let each of us make our own choice, not to decide that for us.

It don't let show he feels, there's no options without info. You have Triss from TW1 and TW2 and your choices is made in TW2. Not in TW3. In TW3 gamer has no choice because he/she doesn't know Yen as welll as he/she knows Triss. So, no. There's no free choice in TW3.

 

[kJustK]

Triss:
I want you to know that I'm prepared to travel to the end of the world with you to save Yennefer. I owe you that, I owe her that...
I'm prepared to drop everything - the trappings of court life, politics, the regicides...
I could even live at Kaer Morhen. It's up to you.
Let me finish - I can only say this once: If you want to go alone, I'll understand.. and I won't try to persuade you otherwise.

Geralt:
I can't know what the future holds. i don't know what else is hidden in my mind. But whatever it is, whatever happens, I don't want to lose you.

View attachment 19206

 

[wright1978]

Let's refresh gamer's memories:

Last moment when Geralt sees Yennefer: Geralt exchanges his soul for saving Yen from the Wild Hunt hands. Next time he has last news form her: a letter with a readers gamers wink about the Unicorn and its implications. Really next time when Geralt meets Yen (the woman for who his sacrifice his soul) they don't exchange any word about feelings.... Where and when Geralt and Yen breake up? Is any hint, word, act quest in any of the 3 games in which Geralt sotp loving Yen?

Where is the coherence in all the CDPR story line to offer Triss as a reasonable new true love? The love Geralt felt in TW1 for a sorcereress who wasn't Triss but Triss never deny? As a gamer of CDPR deep and matureness complex previous games of them, I cannot place nor Triss nor Yennefer fairly in Geralt heart without more explanations. Maybe in other games of others companies where storylines quality has any importance.

Of course, everyone can be content hiself/herself with such a lack of why my main character doesn't show any reaction in face a whole recovering of his memories. Let's make from TW3 another easy-freechoice-games, and let's forget the quality we've have in TW and TW2. .... It's only one more game.

---------- Updated at 05:21 PM ----------[/

Of course their relationship is on hiatus, they've not seen each other in years and they both have gone through trauma of amnesia, in Geralt's case extremely long amnesia. Geralt's feelings are very rightly left up to the player to formulate.

 

[Azhriaz]

Isn't the game plot about Geralt and his doubts and issues and troubles and decisions? So explaining how a psicologic shock like recovering his memories and facing the naked true is less important that Geralt had lost them? All the CDPR TW saga is based in the lost of this memories and now, it the final episode, an explaination about how he faces their recovering can be ignored so easily?... Changing one second female character is more inmersive than the knowlodge of the own main character's reasons for this choice?

As Geralt is "my" character now, it is up to me how he faces recovering his memory.
But I get your point, know what you mean.
I think it's a matter of how to interpret a role playing game. For me - as a passionate pen&paper roleplayer for almost twenty years - the most important thing is a free choice of the feelings and descision for the character I play.
And if I decide to romance Triss and break up with Yen for serveral reasons there is no need to justify this choice. Because it is my game / my character. And because it is my character I know why he acts like he acts. No need for explainations in the game.

I think you expect a Geralt which is more or less the character you know from the books. And not a Geralt that is all up to player. Do I get this right ?
For me this wouldn't be a role playing game. This would be more like acting in a screenplay. This is probably the dilemma of a game where you play characters that come from books originally...

 

[wichat]

Of course their relationship is on hiatus, they've not seen each other in years and they both have gone through trauma of amnesia, in Geralt's case extremely long amnesia. Geralt's feelings are very rightly left up to the player to formulate.

That's your point of view as spectator.Geralt is in love with Triss because he has already this strong feelings for a sorceress and he thinks is Triss. few months later he realize that all those strong feelings were for Triss but for Yen, the woman for who in his last memory, he sacrifices his life and soul. Where's is the rational lapse time here?

 

[Brian6666]

It don't let show he feels, there's no options without info. You have Triss from TW1 and TW2 and your choices is made in TW2. Not in TW3.

I disagree that there is no info, Triss used Geralt's amnesia to seduce him, now he has his memory back, Yennefer is back in the picture (maybe her introduction to the new players could have been better) and it is up to each player to decide whether they will condemn Triss for her actions or decide that Geralt is now in love with her and understand or forgive her. For me this is enough info to present a choice each player has to make, it's not perfect but there is enough info.

I think it is very hard to present all the history Geralt has with Yen to new people not familiar with The Witcher universe, books as a medium contain far more details than the games can present, they also had, at least partially, to remain through to the games (where Triss was the main love interest) as most of their player base only played the games and haven't read the books therefore is more inclined to choose Triss. They also needed to make the game accessible to completely new people, who didn't read the books nor played the previous games, and with all this considered it is clear they had to make some sacrifices to make all that work.

 

[wichat]

I think you expect a Geralt which is more or less the character you know from the books. And not a Geralt that is all up to player. Do I get this right ?
For me this wouldn't be a role playing game. This would be more like acting in a screenplay. This is probably the dilemma of a game where you play characters that come from books originally...

I knew about books quite later after playing TW1. Only the prologue of the game told me there somethong more hiden in the whole plot. Later, very later I get more info.

So, sorry, you're wrong about my wishes. I really wanted to trust and like Triss, Triss is not my problem, nor Yen. But sorry if i cannot explain better myself and you onlyu ca see the first impression of my posts when you read them.

---------- Updated at 05:56 PM ----------

I disagree that there is no info, Triss used Geralt's amnesia to seduce him, now he has his memory back, Yennefer is back in the picture (maybe her introduction to the new players could have been better) and it is up to each player to decide whether they will condemn Triss for her actions or decide that Geralt is now in love with her and understand or forgive her. For me this is enough info to present a choice each player has to make, it's not perfect but there is enough info.

I think it is very hard to present all the history Geralt has with Yen to new people not familiar with The Witcher universe, books as a medium contain far more details than the games can present, they also had, at least partially, to remain through to the games (where Triss was the main love interest) as most of their player base only played the games and haven't read the books therefore is more inclined to choose Triss. They also needed to make the game accessible to completely new people, who didn't read the books nor played the previous games, and with all this considered it is clear they had to make some sacrifices to make all that work.

There's no choice because:
1. The first time gamer meet Yen she is surrounding by the enemy, nilfgaardian soldiers. Negative impression. She almost order instead asking for Geratl to meet The Emperor Emhyr, Negative impression. She has looking sor Geralt because she needs him. Negative impression.
2 the first time Geralt meet Triss, there's a previous introduction where gamer see Triss' home destroyed, She is pursuit. Possitive impression. She must to hide from a powerful force armed. Possitive impression. She is presented as a volunteer to help Geralt for free Jaskier. Very possitive impression.

I stop here. Don't talk about necromancies versus Fairy Tale Party Fair choices? A bitch colaborating with the enemy against a poor maiden in distress? Dammit, the choice doesn't existt. Gamer is leaded.

 

[kJustK]

I disagree that there is no info, Triss used Geralt's amnesia to seduce him,

and it is up to each player to decide whether they will condemn Triss for her actions or decide that Geralt is now in love with her and understand or forgive her

she never does that so there's nothing to forgive

---------- Updated at 05:02 PM ----------

I stop here. Don't talk about necromancies versus Fairy Tale Party Fair choices? A bitch colaborating with the enemy against a poor maiden in distress? Dammit, the choice doesn't existt. Gamer is leaded.

and yet you will see many ppl here fight fr d bitch

 

[wichat]

and yet you will see many ppl here fight fr d bitch

Sorry, can you write with a more standard english? I don't understand fr d means

 

[kJustK]

your impressions are proper
i was actually continuing a discussion we are having here where some people are favouring Yennefer in spite of everything
so that was just a cheeky retort

as for your situation, do not always go on first impressions; you can like Yennefer for many things
as for me though, I cannot overall like her, especially when compared to Triss and thinking as myself, and not Geralt

hope that helps

 

[Brian6666]

There's no choice because:
1. The first time gamer meet Yen she is surrounding by the enemy, nilfgaardian soldiers soldiers. Negative impression. She almost order instead asking for Geratl to meet The Emperor Emhyr, Negative impression. She has looking sor Geralt because she needs him. Negative impression.
2 the first time Geralt meet Triss, there's a previous introduction where gamer see Triss' home destroyed, She is pursuit. Possitive impression. She must to hide from a powerful force armed. Possitive impression. She is presented as a volunteer to help Geralt for free Jaskier. Very possitive impression.

I stop here. Fair choices? A bitch colaborating with the enemy against a poor maiden in distress? Dammit, the choice doesn't existt. Gamer is leaded.

You have a fair point here, even though I didn't get a negative impression about Yennefer at any time, I can see how someone would interpret it the way You wrote, but I already said that Yen could have been introduced better. I never saw Yen as a bitch or as evil, but as a determinant person with strong personality and clear goals. Even though she may seem cold to some, to me her love for Geralt was obvious from the start.

she never does that so there's nothing to forgive

I love Triss and will always choose her, but she definitely did that in previous games. She is in love with Geralt and took her chance when the opportunity arose. I can understand her and I'm OK with that, but she is not the perfect innocent little girl the game sometimes make her out to be. She has also done some bad things in her past and I personally love that she is a flawed character, but it is completely understandable that for some people things she did may be unforgivable.

 

[wichat]

your impressions are proper
i was actually continuing a discussion we are having here where some people are favouring Yennefer in spite of everything
so that was just a cheeky retort

as for your situation, do not always go on first impressions; you can like Yennefer for many things
as for me though, I cannot overall like her, especially when compared to Triss and thinking as myself, and not Geralt

hope that helps

Oh, yes, thank you very much. As you say, I'm writing why I think this romance-sidequest-choice- war is a little nonsense when the whole storyline from TW1 beging till TW3 end has nothing to do.

 

[OutgoingHermit]

There's not rel freedom of choice at all.

The Witcher 3 offers freedom of choice in a lot of different areas. What it does lack, compared to The Witcher 2, is the freedom for the player to explicitly choose the character's motivations. I mentioned this in another thread, but In The Witcher 2, you are asked on more than one occasion why Geralt is chasing after Letho (or why he sided with Iorveth/Roche), and it's up to the player to determine what Geralt's primary motivation is. In the Witcher 3, you're given the freedom to choose A or B, but not to choose the character's motivation.

If you choose to kill Whoreson Junior, it's because he tried to hurt Ciri, and not because he's a disgusting, murderous sociopath. If you choose for Geralt to say that he no longer loves Yennefer, it's because the breaking of the djinn's bond has flipped a switch, and not because he's chosen someone else or simply become tired of fighting with her. But you still have the choice to take the action, and it is an action that is meaningful and leads to consequences down the line.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

....

While I really love your post I have to take up the cudgels for Geralt, at least a bit. I don't know whether it was intended but I got the feeling while reading your post that you blame Geralt almost exclusively for the stormy and troubled relationship with Yen. While he certainly has his fair share of responsiblity for that I think Yennefer is (nearly?) as much to blame for how their relationship turned out in the short stories (pre Book of Elves).

It's not just Geralt's insecurity but also Yen's personality that makes their relationship so difficult. She is imperious, egocentric, arrogant and doesn't accept any other opinion than her own. Hell, it's hard not love that woman but it's even harder to live with her, especially if you are somebody like Geralt who loves his freedom. He's made for the road, for the journey. Living between the walls of a city for a longer time makes him uncomfortable, and that's perfectly understandable because he feels uncomfortable among people, people who regularly show him their despise for him and even their hatred. He lives the life of a freak amongh them, as an outcast. Behing ever corner could lure somebody who wants to do him harm.That's why he prefers the wilderness that is dangereous but honest and predictable. The way humans treat him has made him cynical and a lone wolf while it very similar reasons tunred Yennefer in an egocentric and arrogant person who usually treats other people like dirt, literally. Every time Yen tries to tie Geralt to a place, to a city, they break up sooner or later with Geralt secretly leaving once he couldn't bear it any longer. Of course that has a whole array of reasons, with his insecurity and kind of constant self-scepticism and doubts (that leads him to think that he isn't good enough for Yennefer and that she would be better off without him). Another reason why their relationship doesn't work that well is because they are both infertile. That alone wouldn't be the biggest issue but it becomes one because of Yen's obsession with motherhood. Geralt's presence alone reminds her every day how futile her wish to become a mother is. Maybe she doesn't tell him, but on a deeper level it's a burden for their relationship, a burden Geralt isn't responsible for.

To make it short, both are very complex and very "difficult" characters with traits and wishes and expectations for life that just don't reallly "fit". But still they love each other, against all odds. That's the true romance of these two. They manage to get along, despite all their issues with themselves and with each other.They both grow during the course of their stormy relationship. And as you beautifully put out, Ciri is the final mosaic in the building of their relationship, the one thing that takes away a lot of the tension and burden that always stands between them.

But would they get along in the long run, in the quiet days that come after the storm? With Ciri away, doing her own stuff? Well, who knows? Only time could tell...

 

[FarrySquall]

I love Triss and will always choose her, but she definitely did that in previous games. She is in love with Geralt and took her chance when the opportunity arose. I can understand her and I'm OK with that, but she is not the perfect innocent little girl the game sometimes make her out to be. She has also done some bad things in her past and I personally love that she is a flawed character, but it is completely understandable that for some people things she did may be unforgivable.

she never does that so there's nothing to forgive

Since Brian666 put it like that, i will post @Redemyr explain about Triss and Geralt...again, always love that explanation (look like i mention him with this too many time already )

Spoiler

I've been trying to search with a reason why this story moved me as much as it did.

And it got me thinking. Throughout our life, there are several people who, if the circumstances align themselves, we would get along, get together and in time, develop feelings like affection, love, among others. And the are some circumstances that would prevent that from happening.

Chief among the later is that, when somebody new enters your life and there’s already a preexisting bond with someone else, that new person will have a very hard time entering your life so to speak.

As an example, I’ll bring up my own, albeit limited, experience in the matter. I met my current girlfriend in college, about eleven years ago. Yet at the time, I was with somebody else and so was she. I certainly liked her, and in hindsight, I learned that she did too, but there was never any intentions of us becoming a thing, because, as I said, we were both locked up in that department. It took a special set if circumstances that I won’t elaborate here for us to actually say, let’s give it a try. And ten years later, we’re still together. Yet there were so many things that could have prevented that.

Back on topic, considering that Geralt and Yen have been together for 10-15 (correct this part please) years by the time Triss enters the picture, their special on and off toxic relationship, the strong feelings they have for each other and a freaking djin made magical bond with uncertain properties on top of everything, Triss never stands a chance.

No matter how much better she might be for Geralt or not, there is simply no way, there is no room for her to enter his life in a significant way. That place is already taken. She is relegated to watch their relationship from afar. First with jealously born out of a childish whim. Later with true affection. It has no relevance though, as the man she loves will never give their relationship a chance, because his heart is taken, magically and otherwise. I’m no expert in the books so I’m not sure for how long this goes on.

Which brings us to the end of the books and the beginning of the games. Those rare and special set of circumstances I talked about earlier, which make it possible for two people to find out if something between is truly possible, are suddenly there.

And here we have this woman, who was forced to watch from the sidelines, to taste but never to keep, to envy, to crave. Finally that alignment of circumstances happens, and she has a chance. The very first real one and probably the only one she will ever get.

That chance implies a choice, she can either remain ever in the sidelines or risk everything to find out if their love deserves a chance to be born. In a way, her own, “Now or Never” moment.

So she chooses. And who can blame her? Who, honestly, could say they would have done otherwise?

As it turns out, she was completely right. Unhindered by external circumstances, their relationship grows strong. They go from strangers (at least in his mind), to casual lovers, to let’s run away from everything together and rose of remembrance level love in the span of a few months.

Yet the conditions that allowed such bloom, the blank state that made it all possible, doesn’t last much. The old barrier is back. One party confused and the other already in her own mind defeated, they decide to part ways. The first, because he needs to make sense of his own feelings, the later, because she already knows what’s coming, she’s seen it many times in the past and needs to make herself stronger in order to bear it.

They set off, one in search of answers and the other looking for a new purpose. Six months later, fate reunites them once again. He is still confused; she is almost ready to move on. Their brief interactions are enough to rekindle the old flames and yet, none of them admits it openly. One because her heart won’t bear the disappointment of losing him again, the other because he is not willing to go deep enough into his own self find to find an answer.

On the docks, when the moment of truth approaches, when they realize they might never see each other again, pretense has no place anymore. He finally admits his feeling and she in turn, doesn't move on, doesn’t leave. The two of them are finally free to love each other.

He has the answer he’s been searching for, and she is no longer afraid. They know their choice won't make everyone happy and that there will be a fallout from this, people disappointed. And yet, they've walked a very long and hard road to finally find what they truly wanted. They are not willing to ever let it go again.

This is the one true love story of the witcher series, one born out of true feelings, one born out of desperation and bravery, of hard choices, the one we saw with our own eyes develop and that you, the devs, created for us. It is your own baby. Please give it the place that it deserves.

 

[TreesAreCanon]

@Scholdarr.452 but isn't that what a harmonic and stable relationship is supposed to be about and how it's supposed to work and look like? Which is exactly why I blame Geralt for not being able to accept it and adjust himself, for whatever pathetic reason (emotional instability). I'm not saying it's only his fault, like I said, Yennefer, her personality and dark past didn't make it easy for him. 90% Geralt's fault. It's a typical "our hero is growing and we're watching the process" story...

I'm not saying that he should've been able to make it work, that was impossible at that point and it was clear, which is why I love Sapkowski's style of writing so much. I'm blaming him because he should've accepted it and adjust himself accordingly, despite the fact he wasn't able to deal with it. He decided to take the easy way out instead and simply run. Why would you look for a solution when you don't have to, right? That was his thought process. Because of his poor emotional developement he didn't realize how wrong he was back then, which ended up consuming him. Would I act differently in his situation? Nope. Sapkowski has a keen eye for detail - sometimes you just prioritize your own good, however stubborn it might be. Just like the way Ciri decided to deal with endless torture - become the evil one herself. This is why I blame Geralt, for taking an easy way out and not stepping up, admitting his insecurity and self-skepticism, explaining why is he doubting himself. He perhaps didn't want to hurt her, but on the other hand, suppressing his feelings ended up hurting Yen even more and I'm pretty sure he knew that when making his decision. She just needed to hear it, she knew it deep down, but simply refused to accept it and hoped he would be able to deal with it somehow eventually. This leads to Yennefer feeling the same way as Geralt - insecure, doubting herself, only because of him. I hope you see my point. I don't blame him for not making it work, like I said that was impossible, or let's be overly positive and say very difficult, I blame him for not accepting it and trying to deal with the situation. He decided to prioritize his own good, rather than the good of his lover - Yennefer. All it took was a little bit of honesty, but Geralt was never able to swallow his pride.

As this was the turning point of their relationship, which ended up destroyed and consuming both of them just because
of Geralt, I kinda tend to put all the blame most of the blame on him. I hope I didn't drive you away with all this bullshit.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

@Scholdarr.452 but isn't that what a harmonic and stable relationship is supposed to be about and how it's supposed to work and look like? Which is exactly why I blame Geralt for not being able to accept it and adjust himself, for whatever pathetic reason (emotional instability). I'm not saying it's only his fault, like I said, Yennefer, her personality and dark past didn't make it easy for him. 90% Geralt's fault. It's a typical "our hero is growing and we're watching the process" story...

I'm not saying that he should've been able to make it work, that was impossible at that point and it was clear, which is why I love Sapkowski's style of writing so much. I'm blaming him because he should've accepted it and adjust himself accordingly, despite the fact he wasn't able to deal with it. He decided to take the easy way out instead and simply run. Why would you look for a solution when you don't have to, right? That was his thought process. Because of his poor emotional developement he didn't realize how wrong he was back then, which ended up consuming him. Would I act differently in his situation? Nope. Sapkowski has a keen eye for detail - sometimes you just prioritize your own good, however stubborn it might be. Just like the way Ciri decided to deal with endless torture - become the evil one herself. This is why I blame Geralt, for taking an easy way out and not stepping up, admitting his insecurity and self-skepticism, explaining why is he doubting himself. He perhaps didn't want to hurt her, but on the other hand, suppressing his feelings ended up hurting Yen even more and I'm pretty sure he knew that when making his decision. She just needed to hear it, she knew it deep down, but simply refused to accept it and hoped he would be able to deal with it somehow eventually. This leads to Yennefer feeling the same way as Geralt - insecure, doubting herself, only because of him. I hope you see my point. I don't blame him for not making it work, like I said that was impossible, or let's be overly positive and say very difficult, I blame him for not accepting it and trying to deal with the situation. He decided to prioritize his own good, rather than the good of his lover - Yennefer. All it took was a little bit of honesty, but Geralt was never able to swallow his pride.

As this was the turning point of their relationship, which ended up destroyed and consuming both of them just because
of Geralt, I kinda tend to put all the blame most of the blame on him. I hope I didn't drive you away with all this bullshit.

No, but I still don't agree. What you tend to miss here is that you can't discuss with Yennefer at this stage of their relationship (pre Book of Elves). There is no compromise with her. It's literally sink or swim. Either Geralt does what she wants (like he usually do) or she gets seriously infuriated which can get even physically dangerous.

As much as you say that Geralt should just deal with it we could say the very same about Yennfer. Why doesn't she just deal with the fact that Geralts hates to live in cities and within big human communities. In fact, she tortures him by forcing him to stay with her and she know it. That's not what you'd do in a healthy relationship. It's about reciprocity, not about total submission of only one person. What Yennefer wants from Geralt is that he should not only just accept their relationship but also that he should accept living in a place where he is hated. I think you tend to forget that bigger, social issue and only concentrate on their pair-relationship.

What did Yennefer sacrifice for Geralt or their relationship? What's her input to it? Geralt did what she wanted until he couldn't bear it any longer for various reasons (personal, societal and between them two). But what did she do that he wanted? I don't think there is much that would classify for that. So no, I don't agree with your assessment. Geralt shouldn't just learning to deal with it. Both should learn to deal with their relationship and both should make proper sacrifices to make it work. It cannot work if the scale is totally out of balance.

And of course you can say the way Geralt broke up and just secretly went away was poor. And it was. But I doubt there would have been any other way to break up, given Yen's character and fury. That it didn't work isn't just Geralt's fault but the result of their respective inability to make sacrifices and to make compromises for the sake of the relationship and the other person. I don't think that a relationship with one person as the completely dominating party that aks for almost complete submission is the basis for a healthy relationship, at least not if the other party isn't submissive (and willingly so) from the get-go. So I tend to blame both for the issues in their relationships, much more equally than you do.

 

[TreesAreCanon]

@Scholdarr.452 I completely agree. That's pretty much the way Geralt felt about it as well and if you count in his lack of experience and inability to express himself... But at that point Yen was ready to take it to the next level and was open for discussion, I could recognize that more than easily while reading A Shard of Ice. There was no bullet to dodge so no need to act like a coward for Geralt. I still agree that the flaws of her personality overall might've even encouraged him with his decision. Problem is he was just scared of this new and unknown feeling, probably even way more than Yennefer herself. People tend to run away when scared. They both blamed themselves instead of blaming each other if that makes sense. Geralt wasn't ready for an open discussion, as he didn't grow to that point just yet. Just like Sapkowski said, the purpose
of Yen's creation was to let Geralt fully grow and understand his emotions and to make it even better he decided to make it complicated. I wouldn't call it submission but rather lack of mutual recognition caused by lack of crucial communication.